Why do Minorities get most Govt and State Jobs?

reply to post by lee anoma


So its all based on demographics huh?

Where I live in NYC there seems to be a fairly homogeneous mix of races. YET the state and govt jobs have disproportionate amounts of minoritys working there. How can you explain this?

I understand an all white neighborhood having mostly white employees, and I can understand a mostly black neighborhood having mostly black employees.

But how do you explain a place that's literally a melting pot of all races and yet only minority's make up the majority of the state workforce?

Another question I would like to ask, IS AFFIRMATIVE ACTION STILL NECESSARY IN TODAY'S SOCIETY?

--GS

reply to post by GeminiSky

When I went into every single office in my area, 8 out of 10 employees were minority. Im no rocket scientist but I think that amounts to 80%?

Really? You counted them? How many offices did you visit that you came to this startling conclusion? Seriously, I would like to know.

Again my observation is not opinion, it is fact that 80% of the employees THAT I SAW WORKING AT THE OFFICES were minorities, unless ofcourse they all decided it was cool to wear professionally designed masks and face paint on that day, or they had about 40 caucasian employees locked in a hallway closet, I would say that this percentage is factual BASED ON MY OBSERVATIONS.

So, were these just the employees you happened to see in the front office or were you privy to roam the entire back office area (and all additional floors, if applicable) and account for every single employee? For some odd reason I don't think you were given free reign to all areas of all these various offices you claim to have visited.

Again this is considering that visibility conditions were good, and no optical illusions were taking place.

It seems to me that you were seeing what you wanted to see, and not necessarily what was there. It comes down to that personal perception thing which is not fact-based, but open to interpretation.

Cold hard facts? From a govt printed chart? If you accept anything the govt says as cold hard facts, then im not sure you are supporting the ATS motto of denying ignorance. Nothing "super" about that.

Forgive me for placing more stock in actual statistics than a layman's casual observation. Surely you must be familiar with the adage "Knowledge is power." There is nothing ignorant about acknowledging fact and denying fiction. The truth is the facts speak for themselves. No one is saying you have to like it.

Again you seem to think this is all opinion? Thats like sayin, "the sky is blue" and calling that an opinion. Sorry but the cold hard facts aren't gonna be found in some govt chart, they are going to be found by crawling out from under that rock and visiting these offices and verifying my claims for yourself.

Actually, this entire thread is based upon the premise of YOUR opinion. Again, opinion does not equate to fact.

Originally posted by GeminiSky

Originally posted by illusion987
In case you were wondering...There was a little thing passed a while ago called affirmative action...Biggest mistake in a long list of mistakes this country has made...

If this is even remotely how things are with this "affirmative action" law, then I am truly and completely disgusted.

Wow.

People complain about "lazy blacks" and "welfare mothers", then when you do have Blacks working a steady job, they get accused of being unqualified and simply a number.

Even better, an oddity in a State or Government position.
Seems like people are just angling for a certain type of criticism.

By the way, "Affirmative Action" is not at all what some people trumpet it as. It's all but useless.
I mean, you'd think that because of it, every unqualified Blacks in the Country would be set for life.

Reality is a lot rougher.

Black Males Hit Extra Hard By Unemployment

The latest figures from the Bureau of Labor Statistics show that African-American men over the age of 20 lead the country's jobless surge with an unemployment rate of 17.1 percent. NPR.org

Congresswoman Probes Solutions To Black Male Unemployment

Almost one in 10 Americans is out of work, but that number is dramatically higher for black men.

Nationally the unemployment rate is at 9.5 percent. But for black men, the rate is closer to 17 percent. That's compared to 8.6 percent for their white male counterparts. NPR.org

If, according to the U.S. government (I'm using facts), unemployment among Black males is at least as of a year or so ago, TWICE as much their White counterparts, who are all those sweet Affirmative Action jobs going to?

The White males?

- Lee

I agree and I live in Calgary Alberta Canada.

They get those jobs, because they work for the people.

Asians serve the food everywhere.
Middle-Easterners drive the cabs[Yes im aware India is in Asia]
South Americans clean the offices
Caucasians get the office and IT jobs

Originally posted by GeminiSky
Where I live in NYC

What part and where are you going?
As I said...

there seems to be a fairly homogeneous mix of races. YET the state and govt jobs have disproportionate amounts of minoritys working there.

How can you explain this?

You've yet to prove it.
As I said, it depends on the area.

- Lee

reply to post by maria_stardust


Yep I counted every employee I came into contact with, and also those that I could see. Most govt offices I visited had an open floor plan (1 floor only) and allowed me to see pretty much the whole center.

I would say I visited a total of about 20 offices, in NJ, NY, and CT. I had to move around quite alot and had to update my docs often as well with new address and things like that.

You don't believe me? Tough; Thats just your....OPINION.

To me what I saw was FACT. And unless I was hallucinating, these people were not the white majority, but in fact they were minorities.

If you choose to blindly believe govt issued statistics then go right ahead, who am I to stop you?

I would like to, just out of curiosity ask you what ethnicity you are? And why you have decided to try and discredit my FACTUAL observations?

The questions that I am asking on this thread are on the minds of millions who are too damn scared to ask, so if that means I am painting a target on my back by speaking the truth of what is happening around me, then so be it;

I could not care less, as long as I inspire others to stop being the conditioned sheeple that they are.

--GS

Originally posted by GeminiSky
Another question I would like to ask, IS AFFIRMATIVE ACTION STILL NECESSARY IN TODAY'S SOCIETY?

--GS

That's the REAL question at the center of this thread, though.
Isn't it?

See the U.S. racial statistics regarding unemployment by race, then explain to me why Blacks are so disproportionately unemployed when it comes to their White counterparts.

If they have Affirmative Action on their side, AND all the State and Government jobs, something isn't adding up.



- Lee

reply to post by lee anoma


Ive yet to prove what? That NYC has a mix of all races? I have to prove that? Why? To who, You?

And where was I going? real smart question, whats next your gonna want to compare the DMVs in harlem to those in mid town and those on the upper east side?

I dont have to PROVE anything to anyone, I am simply stating my observations in reference to the state offices Ive visited. If you want your own proof, go visit any DMV in the tri-state area. You will see what Im talking about.

You can post all the govt statistics you want, and the black unemployment rate may indeed be higher than whites, but that does not change the fact that 8 out of 10 employees at these offices were minority's.

Why are you getting so fired up about someone stating what they observed?

Better luck next time!

--GS

reply to post by GeminiSky

You can post all the govt statistics you want, and the black unemployment rate may indeed be higher than whites, but that does not change the fact that 8 out of 10 employees at these offices were minority's.

I assume the 8 out of 10 you saw were behind the counter. Did you bother to see what the makeup of the people running the show were? These people are usually the ones who are out of sight when you walk in.

reply to post by jam321


Yes granted I may not have seen all employees, and please dont mistake my thread for some sort of rant against minority's. I love ALL people.

Even thought i didn't see all employees, why would the ones at the counter be 80% minority?

I mean even if i didnt see all employees, would this imply that the back room was filled with all whites who were "running the show" ?

This would again imply some sort of unbalanced hiring practice, wouldnt you think so?

---GS

Originally posted by GeminiSky

To me what I saw was FACT.

Observe that personal perception thingy at work.

I would like to, just out of curiosity ask you what ethnicity you are?

Well, since you've asked so nicely -- and, of course, my ethnicity would most certainly hold sway with what I post -- I'll give you a few clues and see if you can figure it out for yourself based on your highly-tuned powers of ethnic observation.

I'm fairly articulate. My hair is naturally dark brown with auburn highlights. My skin tone is naturally white with a healthy smattering of freckles. My family is of European descent on both sides. My maiden name could be construed as Irish.

Knock yourself out.

And why you have decided to try discredit my FACTUAL observations?

Your observations are only factual in your mind. If you would actually take the time to provide the data necessary to back your claim there would be no issue here. Alas, you haven't. Your problem, not mine.

The questions that I am asking on this thread are on the minds of millions who are to damn scared to ask, so if that means I am painting a target on my back by speaking the truth of what is happening around me, then so be it;

There's no problem with asking pointed questions and participating in intelligent discourse. You cannot expect everyone to agree with you otherwise there would be no healthy debate which would allow one and all the ability to sift the wheat from the chaff.

I could not care less, as long as I inspire others to stop being the conditioned sheeple that they are.

That's not very nice. Didn't your mother ever teach you manners. (Since you were kind enough to question my ethnicity, it only bears to reason I should return the favor and question your upbringing -- since it obviously holds sway with your take on any issue. )

Originally posted by GeminiSky
reply to post by maria_stardust

 

Yep I counted every employee I came into contact with, and also those that I could see.

I don't doubt you went into a State or Government facility and saw a large number of minorities.
I told you, I've been to a DMV with all Black people in Maryland, it wasn't some unusual spectacle, and I didn't stand their with my jaw agape, because I was aware of the breakdown of the area.

People tend to find jobs closest to them.
We also tend to seperate ourselves racially by neighborhoods/areas, even if we live in a largely mixed City.

What does this mean?

Well it is very likely that if that area is largely made up of minorities (in that melting pot of a City) and they can qualify, that's who you will see in those jobs.

Even if this wasn't the case and you just focused on this point, the fact that you saw so many minorities in a certain position doesn't translate to all "Minorities get most Govt. and State Jobs".

That's not evidence or fact, just your assumption based on one experience.
You may not have even noticed anything unusual, had the employees all mostly White, nor noticed how often they had been, and so seeing this stark reversal has stuck out in your mind as something bigger than it is.

I know you said not to take this thread too seriously, so I won't press you on the facts too much, but you also shouldn't speak as if you have them. I'm sorry but you do not.

This just may come down to being a bit too race conscious.

- Lee

reply to post by GeminiSky

why would the ones at the counter be 80% minority?

Many reasons though I am not saying these are the reasons. One is area as Lee Anoma pointed out. I wouldn't expect many non-minorities if an office was in a minority area. Another reason is that many of these may be veterans. Another is the reality that some of these folks might have been more qualified than others.

This would again imply some sort of unbalanced hiring practice, wouldnt you think so?

Yes, it would. But hiring practices have never been perfect and never will be. Have you ever hired anybody for a job?

Here is some info related to your thread.

African Americans make up 17.4 percent of the federal workforce, as compared to 10.1 percent of the civilian labor force. But the percentage of African Americans drops dramatically with each rise in job grade. They hold 27.6 percent of the lowest positions (GS 1-4), 25.8 percent of GS 5-8, 15.7 percent of GS 9-12, 10.9 percent of GS 13-15 and just 6.9 percent of Senior Pay levels.

govcentral.monster.com...

To both Maria Stardust and Lee Anoma:

No matter how hard you seem to be trying here, you cannot and will not be able to simply explain away my observations.

I am actually a mix of Russian, Ukrainian, Georgian, Syrian....hell I just may be a minority myself.

lee anoma: why do you keep implying that I am race conscious? Why would I be? I grew up in NYC....I have no reason to be astonished "with my jaw agape" by seeing different races.

Having said that, of course I welcome and respect both of your opinions, and healthy discourse....not to do so would only go against the spirit of ATS!

Sure one can argue that everything im saying is subjective, but even with all your charts and statistics, in the end its all subjective as well and whats on paper may not be reflected in the real world.

Again, I am simply explaining what I saw, and to be honest until I saw the replys to this thread, I had no idea what affirmative action was. I knew that companies shouldnt have only one race, but I didnt know all the details of this law.

I would like to ask both of you if you feel like something as antiquated as this law should still be enforced?

--regards
GeminiSky

even if the dmv's you went to were %80 percent minorities so what? what are you implying? do you want to work there and you think they wouldnt hire you? give it a shot and see if you can get a job there.

i could make threads all day about places i've been where all the workers were white, but what would my point be?

i could make a thread about how congress or the senate is %90 white. that would not reflect our nations demographics now would it?

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
even if the dmv's you went to were %80 percent minorities so what? what are you implying? do you want to work there and you think they wouldnt hire you? give it a shot and see if you can get a job there.

i could make threads all day about places i've been where all the workers were white, but what would my point be?

i could make a thread about how congress or the senate is %90 white. that would not reflect our nations demographics now would it?

What is the point?> The point is that the same laws that were created to curb unfair and discriminatory hiring practices have created......unfair and discriminatory hiring practices. That would be the point.

--GS

like i said, try and get a job there and see what happens. you might get hired.

Some links about civil exams that are sometimes required to land government jobs.

NY

Federal