Why do Minorities get most Govt and State Jobs?

Originally posted by lee anoma


If, according to the U.S. government (I'm using facts), unemployment among Black males is at least as of a year or so ago, TWICE as much their White counterparts, who are all those sweet Affirmative Action jobs going to?

The White males?

Just the fact that there is higher unemployment among black males does not prove discrimination. It could be because of that, but it certainly isnt a foregone conclusion. You rarely see black waiters, for instance, and it isnt because restaurants wont hire them. A restaurant I worked in hired every black person who applied. The whole one.

In a crappy economy, sometimes only the crap jobs hire, and some crap jobs arent popular with black people. By choice, not because they would not get the job.

Keep it on topic!

If any more personal attacks take place
I'll be issuing posting bans.

Im a white male and ive been denied all gov jobs that ive applied for you messed up were the minority now buddy wake up times are a changing thats just the way it goes

tis topic should be closed. its based strictly off preception, there are absolutely NO facts to bqck up his claim.

its sad some of you turn this into a white vs black issue, proverty & unemployment is a HUMAN issue

To reiterate without putting it quite so... bluntly.

Have you applied for any of these government jobs? Further, have you conducted a survey of all governmental offices in your area to reach your conclusion, or is this anecdotal? 'Cause if we're going anecdotal, I can tell you that the only nonwhites I've ever seen at the local DMV are all taking numbers rather than answering them.

Second, Affirmative Action is not a "quota system". A business sets a yearly goal for hires of qualified minorities / women, based on demographics of the local hiring pool. It is taken on good faith that they seek such hires. If they fail to meet that goal... nothing happens. No legal or puntative action is taken (though as was pointed out on another of these whack-a-mole "butthurt white guy" threads, government contracts favor those who meet their set goals.) Rather the goal is reset for the next year and it's once again taken in good faith that the business seeks to fulfill its goal.

A little more research into the subject's facts, and less listening to the AM band's take on the notion of blacks getting hired at all will do you a world of good.

Well I might be able to help unless some one else has beat me to it. lol
In the UK we have a program which there has to be an certain percentage of ''Minority's'' in either Governmental apartments And other Services such as Police, Fire fighters or even doctors.

Or you see it from the ''Minority's'' point of view were they work harder, faster and probably a hell of alot cheaper and I know the good people and hard working people of the world will agree with me.

Hope this has helped .

Originally posted by GeminiSky
reply to post by willie9696

 

Yup Im white, and guess what? My long time GF is black. So I know all about racism, and I never implied that it has stopped.

One thing that I find flawed about your argument is that as time goes by, the old generations die off, the old ideals die off and the new generations should not be held accountable.

For example:

Should I be punished today, because my white forefathers owned black slaves? Ofcourse not! My generation had nothing to do with any of it!

---On the other hand---

Should blacks today be rewarded or treated specially because their forefathers were enslaved by whites? Ofcourse not! because the current generation had NOTHING to do with it.

We did not make the choices that previous generations made, therefore we should not be punished OR rewarded for the actions of others CENTURIES ago.

--GeminiSky

So are you saying that minorities are rewarded and the white man is being persecuted? To me you sound like you're in a job you don't like and are a little upset by others who have a job they might like. I'm a construction worker so I know all about hard work and God bless anyone black/white whatever color you are who has a job they like and pays well. The job market should always reflect the demographics of the area. Do you have any numbers that back up your theory of racism against "the white man"?

Originally posted by ed1320
Im a white male and ive been denied all gov jobs that ive applied for you messed up were the minority now buddy wake up times are a changing thats just the way it goes

I have a cousin who has applied for every gov't job available and he's never been hired, is it because he's white? No it's because he's a moron, did you ever stop and think that maybe you aren't qualified for gov't work?

When we can finally stop looking at people for the color they are then maybe we can say that we aren't doing the very same thing our forefathers did.

reply to post by GeminiSky


Like you, I dont care about being flamed for speaking the harsh truth. There is a lot of "reverse" racism going on these days (idk why they call it that, seems kind of racist IMO). The least legally protected group of people in this country right now are white males.

reply to post by GeminiSky


What exactly are you including in minorities? Race? Sex? Religion? Or anyone who isn't an old, white, Anglo-Saxon Protestant, John McCain clone?
And by "most of the jobs" I assume you mean 51% or more. So where are your statistics? You don't have any, do you? Nope, not when the statistics show:
1. Blacks constitute 13.2 % of the country's population. Being a US Senator is a government job. 1% of the Senate is Black. 7% of the House is Black. 7% of all federal judges (67/1774) are Black.
2. The actual percentage of ALL minorities in the federal workforce is 32.2%. www.opm.gov... That's less than 1/3 of the jobs, not "most" as you claim. The same source lists non-federal minority employment at 27.7%, a far cry from "most" jobs.

So why push an unsupportable position. Is it because you think the government hires too many ______ (insert applicable racial slur word here)? Or maybe that these people don't deserve the employment they hold? Look at the title of your thread. It implies a falsehood. It is exactly the same as if I asked you, "Why did you become a racist pig?" when there simply is no evidence that you are.

gemini I saw what you said right from your first post.You were expressing your opinion about what you had observed with your own eyes.I don't see how people who have posted here can call you out with nationally based statistics, when you said right from the start that you were speaking about a local observation.I can see nothing in any of your postings that would indicate that you are a racist.I am thinking that some of the people responding to you have their own agendas and are trying to call you out to get you to respond in a "not nice way".I think you have handled their ignorant rants well.I see no reason for you to supply statistics when you have stated that what you say is opinion based on personal observation.I have observed much the same thing in my part of New York State.I have no explaination for you as to why this is.It just seems to be.As for the high unemployment for blacks I think that many of them were employed in manufacturing jobs and we all know where those jobs went.Many of my black friends are out of work for that very reason.And how did this become about whites and blacks ? You said minorities .Last I knew there were many different minorities besides blacks.My personal experience has been that the person who is the first to cry racist usually is the racist and does that to cover the fact.

reply to post by ed1320


If you write like that on your applications, that could be the source of your trouble. Not that you are white. Which brings up a good point. Dont assume that just because a minority got the job you applied for that it is because of quotas. Sometimes, it might just be you. Thats one of the bad things about people using discrimination as a shield. It allows them to avoid looking in the mirror if they assume that the reason they arent getting ahead is because they are female, white, black, etc. It COULD be that, but you need to be pretty honest with yourself to make sure you arent your own worst enemy.

Originally posted by maria_stardust
reply to post by GeminiSky

 

Overall, the numbers don't match your claim. It's still just your personal opinion, not a fact.

So keep chanting your mantra over and over -- just remember, it won't change the reality.

This?? coming from a Super Moderator?? wow.
apparently, you skimmed right over the second sentence in the OP ... no one claimed his Observations were fact. but again, since empirical evidence is based on observation, where does that leave the OP with regard to fact?

5yr old stats Hardly represent the employment conditions of today.
and, as a southern observer, i can corroborate most of the OPs observations from below the Mason Dixon line. Perhaps there are many cities who do not share the same composition, but that doesn't invalidate the OPs observations.

Shame on you for jumping in with such a vitriolic contribution. And you are correct, it doesn't change the reality one bit.

Originally posted by GeminiSky

Originally posted by Neopan100
I know for the fed gov. the application, interview, etc process is very long and tedious..sometimes from the time you put in your application to the time you're hired can take upward of 6 months...I think white people are impatient and look elsewhere. Black people will WAIT it out fo' sure. just sayin'

)

You are stereotyping both whites and blacks. Please do not do this, every person is an individual. Comments like this will derail this thread.

--GS

wow..

pot.. meet kettle.

reply to post by maria_stardust

Now who's reaching for straws and imagining things?

National statistics in the form of cold-hard facts have been provided that show that minorities do not hold the majority of Federal jobs. Chances are highly probably that the same holds true for State employees.

5yr old statistics proves nothing ... actually, statistics prove nothing but that's another subject.
I'd be very interested to see these "cold, hard facts" of which you claim to have access.
and, considering there are -0- statistical facts presented regarding the OPs observation and opinion, it would seem appropriate for you to retract your assumption and play nice.

reply to post by jam321

you too ?? quoting statistics that are 7yrs old do nothing to help your point.
did you even read the story you linked?
i find the following not only interesting but emphasizing the OPs observations, 7yrs ago ... i can only imagine how more prominent the issue has become.

Minority representation in the federal workforce continues to outstrip participation in civilian jobs.

this would lead anyone to believe AA isn't working as intended.

Federal Equal Opportunity Recruitment Program report (FEORP) for fiscal year 2004.

According to the 2004 FEORP report, African Americans are well represented at the departments of Education, Housing and Urban Development, Veterans Affairs and Treasury.
Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders are similarly represented in the US Navy, Department of Commerce, the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.

American Indians are concentrated in the departments of Health and Human Services and Interior, the Social Security Administration and the Smithsonian Institution.

Finally, Hispanics/Latinos are prominent at the Department of Homeland Security and the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission as well as the Social Security Administration.

yes, it seems minorities in govt positions were even "well-represented" back then.

Even Dan Archuleta, chairman of the American Indian Program Council, a subcommittee of the Denver Federal Executive Board, attributes part of the fact that American Indians are concentrated in a few government agencies to location and that "some people are just not willing to work for the government, because it’s the government."

I do believe this country has far surpassed any need for Affirmative Action. Continuing it this long is one of the biggest mistakes this country has ever made.

reply to post by GeminiSky


I can't believe that I am weighing in on this one but here goes.....

This man says over and over again that this is just personal observation. Observation is just that and sometimes observation does not jive with the facts once someone goes looking for them. I have taken note of this very same thing in local government agencies. Do I have a problem with that? Heck no. Everyone that has legal status and has a job in THIS economy I say kudos to, no matter the race, religion... what have you. I went in search of any stats that would back up this observation, since numbers seems to be a big whoopty doo around here and what I found surprised me because my observation, along with Gemini's, does not support the data that I found from NY State Dept. of Labor & Statistics. NY State Labor Dept. - Minority Percentage Breakdown of Workforce And yes before I get slammed I understand full well that this particular chart represents the entire workforce and not just that of Gov't workers, but I am going on the premise here that the percentages would run fairly close to the overall presented in the data.

Now my observation that is now in direct contrast to the data becomes a question. "Why? If the data does not support my observation, why?" And I think that there are many reasons for this. Affirmative Action? I would think that this would support my observation more so than the data. Geographical location of government offices? This would also seem to support my observation rather than the data. Nepotism? Not data supported, nor observation... just an idea.

Taking this thought process to it's conclusion, where the data and the observation does not jive...it becomes the opening line to Gemini's OP....."Why do minorities get most Govt and State Jobs", which, and this is my OPINION here.. should perhaps read "Why does it seem that minorities get most Govt and State Jobs". But "Why" none the less.

Let's not forget that some wonderful things have come out of the simple word "Why". The US founding fathers asked "Why do we have to live under King George's rule?".... answer is "We don't" and so they did something about it. Citizens of Egypt asked "Why do we have to live under a dictatorship?"... answer is "We don't"...and they did something about it. So let's do something about it... how about instead of basing our workforce on the color of skin or ethnic background we start this new fangled way of thinking called "You get the job because you can DO the job"... revolutoinary isn't it? (NOTE: SARCASIM).

Originally posted by GeminiSky
reply to post by lee anoma

 

Ive yet to prove what? That NYC has a mix of all races? I have to prove that? Why? To who, You?

I don't think you fully read the statement I was replying to.
Read fully the part of your post I quoted, not just half of it.

You've yet to prove the main argument of your thread.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
Just the fact that there is higher unemployment among black males does not prove discrimination. It could be because of that, but it certainly isnt a foregone conclusion.

Of course it isn't.
I wasn't trying to prove discrimination at all.

I was replying to a specific post about "affirmative action" and the implication that Blacks are somehow getting more jobs than Whites due to that program.

I never mentioned discrimination or racism, please read through my post and the ones I quoted again.

My point was that if "affirmative action" is such a driving force of employment for Blacks that Whites are being turned away from jobs in amazing numbers, then it isn't being reflected in actual U.S. employment figures.

I'll say it again, Affirmative Action is all but useless.

People focusing on Affirmative Action are either naive to that fact or just pushing an agenda to angry Whites who feel economically disenfranchised because they believe Blacks are getting all the jobs.

It's an argument you see quite often from certain supremacist groups in their recruiting drives.
Blacks are still largely unemployed compared to their White counterparts. Not the opposite.

Whether discrimination plays a factor in the unemployment numbers is another matter entirely, but a factor I wouldn't quickly rule out either.

- Lee

Minorities get government jobs because they are some of the only jobs with benefits and a decent salary that doesn't require any college education.