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Why do Minorities get most Govt and State Jobs?

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posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 01:04 PM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


Second, Affirmative Action is not a "quota system"
many would differ this opinion, self included.

from a minority who has been there (story from 2009) ... www.americanthinker.com...


These examples involve a quota system: the next person hired will be Black or there will be X number or percentage of women with tenure, etc. This is what a quota is all about.

According to dictionary.com, a quota is a required amount. One of the several definitions given was "A number or percentage, especially of people, constituting a required or targeted minimum: a system of quotas for hiring minority applicants. " (Italics in original.)

here's a history and timeline for those who may be interested: www.infoplease.com...
directly from the Library of Congress: www.au.af.mil...




posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 01:07 PM
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Its not just the US. On many govt jobs the phrase 'people from ethnic minorities and women are especially invited to apply'. Read into that what you will. I have personally seen this on job apps for police, fire service, department of conservation and many other govt jobs.



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 01:09 PM
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Same reason when you almost drive off the right side of the road you end up driving off the left side of the road...

severe over correction...



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by 4nsicphd
 

try again, link is broken so your stats hold no water unless they can be verified ... i call BS



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 01:16 PM
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reply to post by Honor93
 


I agree, when the hiring people are praying for a disabled black woman to walk in the door so they can tick three boxes all at once, that seems like a quota system in fact, no matter how the official language may be worded.

And the above is not my own racism, it was taken directly from a conversation with a state employee. Thats what they were hoping for when an opening came up, so they could fill those quotas and then hire people they thought were actually qualified.

I just think, personally, that they should understand how their own racism is perpetuating the problem. Dont just assume that all minorities are a burden being forced on you. Take the time to hire qualified people, no matter what their color or gender. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy if you just hire based on skin color. If they werent SOOOOO certain that minorities were incapable of being valuable contributors, they would not hire just the first person who satisfied the criteria who walked in the door, and then use that persons incompetence to justify their belief that "see? this is why we shouldnt have to hire minorities."



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by GeminiSky
 





My simple question is why? Where does this imbalance occur in the hiring process? Is there really an equal opportunity chance of getting hired for a state or govt job if you are say a Caucasian, and not part of a minority?


Last I heard, several years ago, when you take a civil service exam they add ten points to your score if you are a "minority" It was part of affirmative action. It also is a system guaranteed to promote a mediocre civil service since the most qualified are often Disqualified.

"Some [pigs] are more equal than other [pigs]"

This type of system is a sign that you are living in a socialist country. Welcome to the People's republic of the United States.



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by GeminiSky
 


Because they are not afraid to holler discrimination....personally I have been saying it for a few years know( am caucasion)...Only when the time is appropriate.



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
To reiterate without putting it quite so... bluntly.

Have you applied for any of these government jobs? Further, have you conducted a survey of all governmental offices in your area to reach your conclusion, or is this anecdotal? 'Cause if we're going anecdotal, I can tell you that the only nonwhites I've ever seen at the local DMV are all taking numbers rather than answering them.


This very much depends on where one lives – like someone pointed out before. In Maryland I noticed that a large proportion of federal government (I worked with DoD civilians) and employees in the state offices were minorities. While here in Missouri our local county agriculture offices, police and DVM is 100% white – the DMV is all white middle aged women.

That’s because the demographics of our county are 98.5% white all other races are less than a percent of the population its .6% other. Since people work where they live it makes sense.

I pulled the demographics for the county I lived in MD and bingo 65% minority (while I wonder how in being the majority makes you a minority at all) most of that black. So stands to reason we’d see that representation in civil employment; or in any business for that matter.


Originally posted by TheWalkingFoxSecond, Affirmative Action is not a "quota system". A business sets a yearly goal for hires of qualified minorities / women, based on demographics of the local hiring pool. It is taken on good faith that they seek such hires. If they fail to meet that goal... nothing happens. No legal or puntative action is taken (though as was pointed out on another of these whack-a-mole "butthurt white guy" threads, government contracts favor those who meet their set goals.) Rather the goal is reset for the next year and it's once again taken in good faith that the business seeks to fulfill its goal.


Here though I don’t agree with your assessment. What you are saying is true for private companies who bid on government contracts but not so much for government employment which is what the OP is talking about.

One further comment on the racial diversity advantage for private corporations; you can’t be so naive as to honestly think that a corporation that lives (as a lot who bid on gov't contracts do) of the government teat would risk their advantage by not making their goal into an unstated hard cap quota – can you? Would you risk it?

Now on to government employment; why do you think that the question of race even appears on the application? It should be completely irrelevant to the question of employment along with age and religion or sexual preference.

However, it is not – the federal system it matters very much. Some offices give an open stated preference to certain minorities; take Indian Affairs for example or HUD or Civil Rights offices etc. There is a reason they have 80 sometimes 90 percent minority representation… They get first crack at it.

I can speak with personal experience about the Army’s diversity “goals” I can tell you they are undeclared hard caps not goals. Take Department of the Army centralized promotion boards. It’s a dirty little secret how they work. Say for Sergeant Major or Battalion Command, and or any pormotion to SFC or higher etc.

They take all the files of the eligible polulation review them, rank them and put them in order top to bottom most to least qualified based on thier criteria. Then they say we can promote X number of people; lets for sake of easy math go with 100.

After they go down the list they do a diversity check. If it’s met they roll with it. The goal is usually based on the overall representation of the people in the service so let’s say its 40% minority for today.

If they are short 20 people they back the list up 20 people to 80 so now all the sudden 20 white guys who had their promotions all locked in are no longer going to get it for sure. Then they go down the list to find the next 20 most qualified minorities regardless of how far down the list they have to go.

The board members have to review all the files again down to whatever number that is (if 500 people are compete ting and the 20th minority was 499 out of 500 in ranking they have to review them all over again) until they reach the diversity goal. The board is not given a set time to complete their proceedings and they won’t be released until the board President either reaches that goal or writes a detailed case by case analysis of why he didn’t reach the goal – basically making a justification for not promoting a minority (yeah everyone wants to wrtie that analysis I'm sure).

Can they pick the original 20 white guys who were removed from the list – sure…

Will they, I bet they want to get back to their units/live and out of the hotel and go with the path of least resistance…

Now it’s all done in political correct speech so no one can say it’s a quota rather than a goal but the process is very painful for any board President who fails to reach it.

I bet his/her career will be marked forever – so what do you think they do?

I imagine the hireing process for all federal jobs is pretty much the same; they screen all the applicants come up with who is qualified then back down the list till they meet the diversity goalskiping the white ones.



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


I just think, personally, that they should understand how their own racism is perpetuating the problem. Dont just assume that all minorities are a burden being forced on you. Take the time to hire qualified people, no matter what their color or gender. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy if you just hire based on skin color. If they werent SOOOOO certain that minorities were incapable of being valuable contributors, they would not hire just the first person who satisfied the criteria who walked in the door, and then use that persons incompetence to justify their belief that "see? this is why we shouldnt have to hire minorities."

and with this, i'd have to mostly agree.
Many of those living before, during and since AA, still endure feelings of "all minorities are a burden being forced on them" ... women included, and those feelings still burn deeply.
Doesn't make it right but random dismissal only serves to inflame not alleviate the perception.

no offense to those who viewed the cartoon and perceive that as some kind of actuality ... although it isn't, it IS reflective of the 'lay-off' procedures many of us have been subjected to over the years.
self included ... from a position held several yrs before the 'quota' compounded by a bad economy [much like today] came along ... am i bitter about it ?, not so much anymore but i sure am saddened and disheartened to see it fluffed over like it was no big deal.
For many families, it was and still is.

And to others ... with regard to the opinion that blacks, specifically, endure a greater hardship in the workforce ... i completely disagree. Most of the non-working blacks i know personally, choose such. Unfortunately, none of the stats take that into consideration.

From the 80s forward, many of the young black folk were recruited by thugs and became thugs and this is all they know. And many of them, as adults, choose to be societal leeches.
I'd love to see any study or stats accumulated on that reality.
point here is ... Affirmative Action helped them, how?

edit on 16-2-2011 by Honor93 because: add text

edit on 16-2-2011 by Honor93 because: ooops, trying to do too many things at once ... fixed format



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 02:02 PM
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reply to post by Golf66
 


Now on to government employment; why do you think that the question of race even appears on the application? It should be completely irrelevant to the question of employment along with age and religion or sexual preference.

B I N G O ... when this changes, we can say that we (as a country) have left racism and discrimination in the past. until then, all the govt seems to do is emphasize it ... why should we continue to give them game pieces?



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by GeminiSky
Why do I need luck with this thread? Because Im one of the few who do not care about being "politically correct" and tell it like it is?

I for one am tired of people having to tip-toe around any subject that discusses issues such as this, just because we are so conditioned in regards to so called "racism" that things like this never get discussed because the sheeple are too afraid of being called racist. (Even if there is nothing racist about it)

--GS


so you are saying you are "politically incorrect" aka "brave"? if that was the case you would have titled the thread "Why do AFRICAN AMERICANS get most Govt and State Jobs?". guess saying "Minorities" is much less offensive than saying "African Americans". PC people don't associate blacks with anything slightly negative. if you were even less PC the title would have been "Why do BLACKS get most Govt and State Jobs?". and the N-word is reserved for the plain racist.



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by Honor93
And to others ... with regard to the opinion that blacks, specifically, endure a greater hardship in the workforce ... i completely disagree. Most of the non-working blacks i know personally, choose such. Unfortunately, none of the stats take that into consideration.

From the 80s forward, many of the young black folk were recruited by thugs and became thugs and this is all they know. And many of them, as adults, choose to be societal leeches.


Its something that should be looked at, how much choices made by blacks because of their own "culture" is creating the difference in numbers. After all, Asians have a higher employment rate than whites do in America. Is this because whites are discriminating against themselves? Or is it because many Asian families really push their kids to get educated and succeed in traditional ways? Asian culture just so happens to thrive in corporate America.

Studies have been done to see if women are underrepresented and paid less because of discrimination, or their own choices. And in many cases, the conclusion has been that womens choices about parenting and the way that impacts their schedules makes a real impact. Sexism may play a role in that, if their husbands and partners are unfairly leaving them with the burden. But women themselves and their choices have a significant impact on their career trajectories.

I would love to see a well designed study attempt to measure how hostility to "white culture," brown racism and dislike of whites, over sensitivity to being in subordinate positions, or positions considered servile, family structure, manners, skill with a mainstream spoken version of English, social pressure from others in their home communities, etc., really impact the employability of poor blacks. Because I suspect it plays a bigger role than the black community believes or wants to believe it does.

I know it sure plays a role in the employability of poor whites.



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by Honor93
 





why should we continue to give them game pieces?


When ever I fill out one of those blasted forms I ALWAYS check Other. I have a friend who is as black as night who puts down her race as Swedish (she is )


Until we all start playing these type of mind games with the system they will insist on pigeon holing us.

If you are white you can legitimately claim Neanderthal ancestry. "It’s a small but very real proportion of [Neanderthal] ancestry in non-Africans today."



or better yet an Albinoid black

That should REALLY
the moronic HR types.

The origin and labeling of the “so called” Caucasian, Negroid, and Mongoloid Races by 19th Century scientists, started racial groupings based on skin color by naturalists and anthropologists like Johann F. Blumenbach, JA Gobineau and HS Chamberlain....

"All human beings are 99.99% the same at the DNA level and the remaining 0.1% genetic variation that exist seldom segregate in a manner that confirms to the racial boundaries constructed by social political means.”

The albinism syndrome shows parallels with sickle cell anemia....

About one in 35 southern African blacks is a carrier of an albinism mutation, a surprisingly high prevalence for a genetic disorder where the homozygote is at a survival disadvantage.

...“We propose that the ... population that survived the last glaciations in southwestern Eurasia was largely a group of albinoids who were better adapted to the ecology than their darker relatives who had originally colonized the area. These latter were gradually replaced by albinoids, though small groups of African aboriginal types long persisted on the North Atlantic seaboard because of the availability of Vitamin-D-rich salt-water fish. This “goodness-of-fit” of the albinoids in this northern environment was due to the more efficient Vitamin D production and utilization in the whitened skin in these sunlight-deficient latitudes and better cold resistance.... www.stewartsynopsis.com...

edit on 16-2-2011 by crimvelvet because: Added link and ex-text markers



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 03:39 PM
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It's because the Gov is anti-white and has an agenda. Honky has no voice or standing in the USA. This nation is only for minorities and illegals. Whitey is denigrated and hated. It's a nation of special privilages, and it goes to those who have darker skin.



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by GeminiSky
 


I have noticed this as well. But I think you're noticing specific jobs, like the DMV from Family Guy. Here in Texas the DPS (DMV) seems to be staffed mostly by black women, trash men are almost always black men, postal workers are more often black then not...etc. I admit I've noticed that too, but I really don't think there is some conspiracy here. Perhaps certain groups of people i.e black/white, male/female, etc. gravitate towards specific jobs?



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 03:53 PM
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The title of your post has no evidence to back it up.

I personally believe you don't know what your talking about.

I work in a service sector job where I visit hundreds of different buildings every year, and I just don't agree with what you are talking about.



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 04:03 PM
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reply to post by GeminiSky
 


Anecdotal observational evidence by a biased observer? That's the only evidence I need to reach a conclusion. I think systematic surveys of real-world demographics are overrated and time-consuming. Really, what's the point of collecting statistically significant data from multiple sites when I can just go to the post office every couple months and look around? The OP's clearly disconcerted that his local environment contains more minorities then he'd like but taking issue with someone's mere presence based solely upon their skin color is certainly not racist.



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 04:14 PM
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I thought this crap happened only in Canada! Phone any government office in Canada, you will first hear a recorded voice taking you through a list of options that always end by instructing you to push the number of the particular department relating to your query, or stay on the line for further assistance. In most cases you will have a difficult time understanding just what the recorded voice is saying. I get frustrated and angry when after 10 minutes of pushing buttons and trying to understand what is being said, then when finally getting through to the right department I get another even stronger accent than the previous ten it took me to get to this one. I'll then ask to be put through to someone who can speak English. I never realized just how many dialects India had. I don't know why these people get the good paying government jobs, but it's building a lot of resentment and breeding a hatred that Canada has never known before, a hatred that for years has been simmering in a melting pot that is about to boil over. There are thousands of qualified white Canadian families struggling to survive on welfare, yet the jobs are given to immigrants from countries such as India and Sri Lanka, who bring nothing with them but political problems they think we should be sorting out.



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by Bkrmn
 


Just remember your frustration is not really with the Indians. It is with your leaders.

Racism is encouraged and fostered by the elite. If we are fighting amongst ourselves, we cannot unite against the wealthy and fight for our common interests. ALL poor people have more in common with other poor people, no matter what their skin color, than they do with the wealthy of their own ethnicity.



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 04:28 PM
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I think it's called reverse discrimination.



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