Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

Can HAARP Create Earthquakes?

page: 5
13
<< 2  3  4    6  7 >>

log in

join

posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 01:40 AM
link   
Isn't scalar energy created when two common electromagnetic waves come together from two opposite converging vectors?
As far as I know, when the energy vectors meet, the equal frequencies cancel each other leaving a static or stationary form of energy and zero frequency, also known as a fifth-dimensional non-linear and non Hertzian field.




posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 03:57 AM
link   
reply to post by Phage
 
Phage you are just telling me what the military would tell me if i called them up and asked them about HAARP.

I suppose that you would say that HAARP cannot do any of the following either?

Patent 4686605 claims the following uses.
“cause total disruption of all forms of communications over a very large portion of the Earth”
“missile or aircraft destruction, deflection, or confusion”
“weather modification by altering solar absorption”
“also altering composition of the atmosphere”

Power beaming system (US Patent 5068669)
Artificial ionospheric mirror composed of a plasma layer (US Patent 5041834)
Creation of artificial ionization clouds above the earth (US Patent 4999637)
Defense system for discriminating between objects in space (US Patent 4817495)
Nuclear-sized explosions without radiation (US Patent 4873928)

Please do have a look at Exhibit R-2, RDT&E Budget Item Justification



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 09:36 AM
link   
reply to post by Roald
 

HAARP may be capable of some of things in the system proposed by Bernard Eastlund in Patent 4686605. I'm not sure about the meteorological effects. I'm unclear how affecting the ionosphere, 10s of miles above the troposphere, can have an effect on weather. Eastlund was not a meteorologist. HAARP cannot cause ionization, it uses ions which are already present in the ionosphere. Nothing about earthquakes in there.
www.freepatentsonline.com...

US Patent 5068669
I don't know what power beaming using microwaves has to do with HAARP. HAARP does not use microwaves. Nothing about HAARP in there. Nothing about earthquakes in there.
www.freepatentsonline.com...


US Patent 5041834
The term "mirror" is a bit strong, but yes, HAARP can do something like that. It may be useful for over the horizon radar and long distance communications. That's one reason the DoD is interested in the research. The patent speaks of artificial ionization, something HAARP is not capable of. Nothing about earthquakes in there.
www.freepatentsonline.com...

US Patent 4999637
Pretty much the same as above. Nothing about earthquakes in there.
www.freepatentsonline.com...

US Patent 4817495
Sounds interesting.

A large amount of power (e.g., up to 10^12 watts) in continuous or pulsed power for finite periods of time will be required for implementing the present invention.
A terawatt. HAARP doesn't produce quite that much power (ERP or otherwise). Nothing about earthquakes in there.
www.freepatentsonline.com...

US Patent 4873928
Do you even read the references you post or do you just paste from HAARP conspiracy sites? Nothing about HAARP in there, or electromagnetic radiation, or earthquakes.
www.freepatentsonline.com...

Exhibit R-2, RDT&E Budget Item Justification
Yes, Some funding for HAARP was included in the DoD budget for 2008. Nothing about earthquakes in there.

Now, back to the topic: please explain how radio waves can cause earthquakes.
edit on 2/23/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 12:57 AM
link   
reply to post by Phage
 


Originally posted by PhageUS Patent 5068669
I don't know what power beaming using microwaves has to do with HAARP. HAARP does not use microwaves. Nothing about HAARP in there. Nothing about earthquakes in there.
Sorry, my mistake. I should not have called it microwave.


Originally posted by PhageHAARP may be capable of some of things in the system proposed by Bernard Eastlund in Patent 4686605. I'm not sure about the meteorological effects. I'm unclear how affecting the ionosphere, 10s of miles above the troposphere, can have an effect on weather. Eastlund was not a meteorologist. HAARP cannot cause ionization, it uses ions which are already present in the ionosphere. Nothing about earthquakes in there.



Today, weather-modification is the alteration of weather phenomena over a limited area for a limited period of time.9 Within the next three decades, the concept of weather-modification could expand to include the ability to shape weather patterns by influencing their determining factors.10 Achieving such a highly accurate and reasonably precise weather-modification capability in the next 30 years will require overcoming some challenging but not insurmountable technological and legal hurdles.

Weather as a Force Multiplier: Owning the Weather in 2025

A Research Paper Presented To Air Force 2025 by
Col Tamzy J. House, Lt Col James B. Near, Jr., LTC William B. Shields (USA), Maj Ronald J. Celentano, Maj David M. Husband, Maj Ann E. Mercer, Maj James E. Pugh
August 1996


Originally posted by PhageUS Patent 5041834
The term "mirror" is a bit strong, but yes, HAARP can do something like that. It may be useful for over the horizon radar and long distance communications. That's one reason the DoD is interested in the research. The patent speaks of artificial ionization, something HAARP is not capable of. Nothing about earthquakes in there.


Allow me to correct you regarding artificial ionization.

Recent ionospheric modification experiments with the 3.6 MW transmitter at the High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP) facility in Alaska led to discovery of artificial ionization descending from the nominal interaction altitude in the backgroundF -region ionosphere by∼60 km. This paper presents a physical model of an ionizing wavefront created by suprathermal electrons accelerated by the HF-excited plasma turbulence.

Ionizing wave via high-power HF acceleration
Evgeny Mishin and Todd Pedersen
Space Vehicles Directorate, Air Force Research Laboratory, Hanscom AFB,
MA, USA



It is suggested to create Artificial Ionized Region (AIR) in the atmosphere at the heights of several of tens km in crossed beams of microwaves. To maintain ionization in AIR for a long time breakdown pulses should be sent periodically. Optimal conditions to achieve maximum ionization in AIR are discussed theoretically. It is shown that plasma concentration in AIR can exceed maximum concentration in the ionosphere by orders of magnitude. Several important applications of AIR creation are discussed. First, AIR can serve as an artificial ``mirror" for radio and telecommunication in HF, VHF and UHF ranges. Second, each breakdown pulse is accompanied by stimulated optical emission from AIR. It means that powerful N_2 laser is formed in the atmosphere with the help of AIR. Third, AIR can be used for the investigation of complicated chemical processes with minor atmospheric constituents and for direct local action on ozone layer. The main theoretical results are confirmed in the laboratory experiments with strong microwaves.

From: ARTIFICIAL IONIZED REGION IN THE ATMOSPHERE AND ITS APPLICATIONS
N. BORISOV (1) and A. Gurevich (2)
(1) Institute of Terrestrial Magnetism, Ionosphere and Radio Waves Propagation
(2) Lebedev Physical Institute
E-mail: borisov@td.lpi.ac.ru


Originally posted by PhageUS Patent 4873928
Do you even read the references you post or do you just paste from HAARP conspiracy sites? Nothing about HAARP in there, or electromagnetic radiation, or earthquakes.

So, you are really checking the links, not just opposing just for the sake of it. I appreciate that.



posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 01:53 AM
link   
reply to post by Roald
 

Yes, Weather as a Force Multiplier: Owning the Weather in 2025 was a research paper.

This report contains fictional representations of future situations/scenarios. Any similarities to real people or events, other than those specifically cited, are unintentional and are for purposes of illustration only.

csat.au.af.mil...
There is nothing in the study about use of ionospheric heaters to modify atmospheric weather though it does talk about their possible use in communications or affecting satellites.

Thank you for the reference to artificial ionization. It's very interesting. The article seems to make an argument that the observed increase in ion density may be due to artificial ionization. The effect seems to be very dependent upon the conditions in the ionosphere. It's new research. Interesting, I'd like to learn more about it. It's nice that the research done at HAARP is so available.

ARTIFICIAL IONIZED REGION IN THE ATMOSPHERE AND ITS APPLICATIONS
A hypothetical microwave system. Not HAARP.

Still nothing about how radio waves can cause earthquakes. We know that HAARP can influence the ionosphere. That's what it is designed to do.

edit on 2/24/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 05:19 PM
link   
Maybe a little to far from HAARP but then again??????

Credit to thinkingthing! Thanks Buddy

www.science20.com...



posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 12:19 PM
link   
reply to post by PuterMan
 
from an old response:

Here’s what I do know about the concept of HAARP and how I now it. I am a US Navy Submarine Veteran. I qualified submarines (SS) in 1987. I served for 10 years before I was injured while shifting weapons in a torpedo room in 1994. My hand was crushed and I was unable to continue with my military career. During the cold war, one of the many concerns of the Navy was communicating with submerged submarines at depth so they could receive launch orders for SSBM’s, mission update orders and other important communications. Another concern was retrieving intelligence from submerged recording devices that were used to tap into the USSR’s military communications system. This would involve sending a submarine into very shallow waters, such as a bay, fjord, river, inlet, ECT, deploy swimmers and place a fresh recording device, which had nuclear batteries, on top of the communications cables and retrieve the old one that was full of intel goodies that was placed there earlier. What made this type of SPECOP so remarkable and worth this risk was the Soviets transmitted these TOP SECRET conversations in the clear, un-coded because they thought it suicide for anyone to send a team so close to its shores. Compare this to the Russians sending a submarine up the East River and tapping the phone cables under the Brooklyn Bridge between Manhattan and Brooklyn. Crazy right? Think of the propaganda coup the Soviets would have had if they caught one of boats? Now sending and receiving this information is very important and risky. Unfortunately, radio waves do not penertatrate sea water to any significant depth. Therefore a submarine that needs to “phone home” would have to come to periscope depth to raise an antennae mast to receive and transmit messages. The danger in this is the sub can be detected at such a shallow depth…even with the naked eye. The navy has tried many solutions to this problem….floating wires, retracratable buoys. Bu what if we could send and receive messages from subs while submerged at 2000 feet…right through the water using VLF (very low freq.) or receive intelligence from the submerged wire taps in real time? Under the auspices of President Reagan’s SDI or Star Wars, DARPA along with several Defense contractors began their research into using the Ionosphere as a huge radio antenna, basically using the earth’s own atmosphere as a very large antenna to receive and transmit message bursts from submerged assets. This was the beginnings of HAARP. Already known was the fact that highly directed radio waves can be used as a weapon. In conjunction with the communications aspects of such a device was using radio waves to disrupt Ballistic missile guidance systems before their MIRV payloads could re-enter the atmosphere. Used at high a high enough power, in theory, perhaps destroy them.
When I left the Navy in the 90’s HAARP being used as a transmitter/receiver went nowhere. The technology just wasn’t there. Other ways of communicating with submerged assets were realized and developed. But the weapons aspect did go somewhere. Highly directed radio waves were first used in combat in Panama to disorientate enemy troops. The waves caused vertigo, nausea and confusion. At high enough power it could even kill. I have not heard of such devices being used in any lethal way Nothing secret about these aspects. Hardly a week goes by with a Military Channel episode showing how directed sound waves are used in Iraq and Afghanistan to disperse crowds. These shows even demonstrate how they could be used as non-lethal weapons in domestic crowd control in the United States.
What do I think of the weapon-ization of HAAR and its potential uses? We do know that highly focused radio transmission can and are lethal. I wouldn’t want to stand in front of any transmitter pumping out 15 million watts of power. One would get fried like being in a microwave. I do not have first hand knowledge of HAARP being used for these purposes. Charging the Ionosphere, approximately 60 KM overhead is one thing; directing that power to the ground is some sort of a controlled way with pinpoint accuracy is another. Without some kind of target, say placing a positive charge in a portion of the sky and having some type of negatively charged target on the ground seems quite problematic to me. How to differentiate that negative target from let’s say another naturally occurring one seems almost impossible. Trying to do it clausdinely seems almost ridiculous. Controlling weather with HAARP seems almost as implausible. With Hurricanes occurring so far below the ionosphere, how would u get that charge to storm? Perhaps seeding the storm with some kind of charged targets like aluminum dropped from aircraft?
The only feasible theories I have found plausible is the disrupting of guidance systems and possibly destroying inbound platforms with highly charged particles over a large area. Another is to artificially strengthen the ionosphere to protect our planet from immense solar flares or cosmic rays. I’m not concluding that any of the sinister ideas about HAARP aren’t possible; just not plausible at the moment. I do know that the submerged communications aspect of the project is as dead as……dead.



edit on 15-3-2011 by TM2SS because: fix



posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 08:04 PM
link   
reply to post by bepreparedd
 



now, if you look back several days before the quake, you can see NO activity whatsoever, until the 10th of january, wherean extremely strong, calculated and distinct signal comes out of nowhere. This signal keeps the same strength, frequency and prowess for 2 days, ending as abruptly as it started, on january 12th at 17:00 UTC, 4 hours before the haiti earthquake strikes.


At best that information might indicate a connection between CMEs and earthquakes, but that has not been demonstrated yet. Indeed I believe it to have been disproved.

So many times people point to this magnetometer and say "Oooh HAARP is active."

So many times I have to "NO, the Sun is active". The magnetometer is not measuring the output from HAARP, it is measuring the magnetic flux. It has absolutely nothing what so ever to do with HAARP causing earthquakes and has nothing to do with measuring the ionosphere heating, or ELF or anything else HAARP might output.


Magnetic field variations of interest in this program are those induced by electric currents in the ionosphere. The major signal categories detected by the induction magnetometer are short period magnetic pulsations such as Pc1, Pc2, Pc3, PiB, and PiC in a frequency range above a few tens of milliHertz. Among these, the induction magnetometer most efficiently detects Pc1 waves in the frequency range from 0.1 Hz to 3 Hz. Pc1 signals are the result of ion-cyclotron radiation generated near the equatorial plane of the outer-magnetosphere that make their way to the ionosphere guided by the magnetic lines of force. In addition, signals generated in the atmosphere that are caused by lightning discharges, the Schuman resonances, are also detected and sometimes become strong enough to mask signals from the ionosphere.


HAARP Induction Magnetometer


It is argued that the solution of this paradox is of paramount importance to understand the 11-year solar cycle variation of the Pc1 occurrence rate, interplay between Pc1 and oxygen ions in the magnetosphere, impact of interplanetary magnetic field sector boundaries on the Pc1 wave activity, and other similar problems. A schematic picture showing the place of Pc1 waves in the system of solar–terrestrial relations is presented.


Source



posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 08:06 PM
link   
reply to post by Roald
 


It has been very interesting so far but it is your turn Roald.

So far we don't seem to have got very far!



posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 08:16 PM
link   
The only way I can see this machine working is to rearrange the order of the molecular structure of atoms within rock to create voids, which under load will implode in a predictable way.

But I can also see there is no where written that it can do this.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 11:16 AM
link   
Well while you guys work from the ionosphere down to bury this ridiculous assertion that HAARP can create earthquakes, I'll take the opposite approach and work from the ground up.

The premise is (or supposes) that HAARP can resonate a fault structure with enough energy at just exactly the right spot to cause a quake.

1) First of all, would someone explain to me how they would know the EXACT composition, length, depth, and density of a target earth layer- and here's the kicker- AT EVEN 10 km DEPTH, MUCH LESS 30 or 40 km depth to then calculate the EXACT resonant frequency needed to cause resonance in that layer? Seismic tomography simply cannot provide all those answers to achieve that calculation.

2) Even IF they had a device that could produce that frequency, they can't produce the kind of POWER needed to physically agitate that target earth layer; and lastly-

3) Even IF they could do all of the above, the BEST they could do would be to fire the thing at random spots hoping to excite a very very shallow fault. The problem is, most HAARP idiots don't realize that it takes real long fault lengths to produce bigger earthquakes. And the longer the fault length, the more energy that would be needed, across a distance of 100's of kms, to excite that target fault layer to create any earthquake large enough of worth in the first place. The required power alone to do such a thing renders the HAARP assertion laughable. Stuff out of comic books. Not out of science.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 06:18 PM
link   
reply to post by TrueAmerican
 


I dunno, as I just saw this video that was posted on January 6, 2011, and I cannot believe I did not see this video on this site yet, but anyway here it is:

thefloridianguy.com...

Here is the link to the video on the Youtube Site(same video, just different host site):

www.youtube.com...=1336

Now, just watch entire video and tell me your views?!?



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 07:52 PM
link   
As far as HAARP being responsible for earthquakes, there is no conclusive evidence that radio waves, or radio wave manipulation, can trigger or cause earthquakes.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 11:04 PM
link   
reply to post by spydrbyte25
 


Actually it has been posted on ATS before. I recognised it as soon as I started watching.

It is of course complete unsubstantiated nonsense. Even the so called 'perfect' 120 degree triangle actually is not 'perfect' if you measure it properly. It does not prove that HAARP does anything and is basically just the ramblings of someone who has little knowledge and little inclination to clue themselves up on the facts.



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 05:07 AM
link   

Originally posted by PuterMan
reply to post by Roald
 


It has been very interesting so far but it is your turn Roald.

So far we don't seem to have got very far!
Have been busy here. The tectonic simulation here makes me go hi-wire.

I'll be back later.



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 06:49 AM
link   
After doing a bit of research into HAARP I recently made a thread with the same title as this one. www.abovetopsecret.com... . It explains some of its capabilities and how it is able to produce an earthquake. One topic that was not covered was the relationship between electromagnetic and kinetic energy and this thread has looked into this topic with some detail. So can radio waves cause movement?

1/ The microwave. This was mentioned earlier on this thread and is a simple, clear example of electromagnetic energy being expressed as kinetic energy as the water molecules heat up and move around. Other reports of people and other things being too close to the source of strong radio transmissions further demonstrates this principle. These example alone proves a relationship between electromagnetic and kinetic energy, but some are not convinced so lets continue.

2/ The light mill or Crookes Radiometer. This is another very simple experiment that demonstrates a direct relationship between electromagnetic and kinetic energy. It works by having a set of paddles with white on one side and black on the other. If a directional light source is applied then the white side repels the light while the black side attracts the light. This causes all the paddles to spin. But lets continue.

3/ The electric motor. This is a very classic case of electromagnetic energy being transferred to kinetic energy. It works by inducing magnetic energy in the stator to cause the rotor to spin. There are many types of inventions based on this principle including solenoids, relays and others. For anyone to say that electromagnetic energy cannot be transferred to kinetic energy is delusional.

So now that is established, how do ULF waves translate into earthquakes? During my travels I came across a place called the Flinders Rangers. This is a mountain range of very old rock, if it was not for erosion the range would be as high as Mount Everest as the layers have been pushed up over the many years. Something I realised while here is that the earth does move in waves like the water and sand dunes, but over a very, very long time. An earlier post presented waves from the sun with cycles in the hundreds of years. In our analogue universe waves or cycles in the million and billions of years would also be around.

10 to 20km underground is under thousands of tons of pressure from above and immense heat from below. There have been many reports of HAARP being able to map the underground structures of the earth and it is with this information that it is able to affect change. By knowing what is under the ground and the frequency signatures of an area it is able to continually focus the required frequency to build up the harmonic resonance of the area. Eventually all this added energy to an area has to go somewhere and an earthquake begins.



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 01:12 PM
link   
reply to post by kwakakev
 

1) HAARP does not use microwaves. The frequency of ULF/VLF radiation is far too low to produce dipole heating effects.

2) A Crookes Radiometer does not work by "repelling" or "attracting" light. If that were the case it would work if there were a vacuum in the bulb. It does not do so. The motion is caused by the difference in temperatures between the white and black sides of the paddles.
en.wikipedia.org...

3) An electric motor does not convert electromagnetic radiation into kinetic energy. It converts electrical energy into kinetic energy.



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 02:56 PM
link   
reply to post by Phage
 


Are you actually that guy on the Numbers tv show? I loved that program, wished tv was more informative like that. After reading your posts it is sad to see you have aligned with CIA program, not surprising with the FBI links during the show and a good head on your shoulders. Anyway back on topic.

1/ We fill a glass of water out of the tap and put it in the microwave oven. Water in a liquid state at room temperature has all these H20 molecules (plus some other stuff) gradually moving around. Any matter in a liquid, gas or plasma state is in constant motion. Then we turn on the microwave and electromagnetic radiation around the 1.8 - 2 GHz starts bouncing around oven and hits the water. When a microwave hits a water molecule the energy from the wave is passed onto the molecule. The result is that the electrons surrounding the atoms moves into a higher orbit. The molecule begins to move around more and heat is generated. These examples are more about the OP's question on the relationship between electromagnetic and kinetic energy than HAARP specifically.

2/ Great pickup, I saw that experiment years ago and it is the convention currents that produces the kinetic energy of the mill. So it is the heating affect that is stronger than the physical pressure of the light. On that link there has been a nanoscale light mill made that works with a laser, specially tuned to the resonance frequency of the mill to give much better torque. Also there is another link to the Nichols radiometer which is designed to measure the pressure of light, very faint but it does exist. en.wikipedia.org...

3/ In some early days schools electromagnetism was treated as electricity and magnetism being the same force, then science decided to split them up. This is like saying we will split up the study of light into a partial (with electricity and the electron) and a wave (with magnetism and the field loop). Send a stream of electrons down a wire and it creates a magnetic field, coil that wire and it strengthens the magnetic field. These two forces do work together. Electromagnetic radiation is the same force if it is travelling down the medium of a copper wire or through the air. It is the voltage difference between the negative and positive ends of a battery that provides the magnetic energy to pull the electrons through the circuit and turn the motor. This is why Volts are used as one of the factors in measuring Teslas.
edit on 20-3-2011 by kwakakev because: added 'resonance frequency' for mill



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 03:17 PM
link   
Can HAARP Create Earthquakes......?
Can DARPA Dump in the Ionosphere?
edit on 20-3-2011 by CosmicCitizen because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 03:49 PM
link   
reply to post by kwakakev
 

1) Microwave heating (dielectric heating) does not affect the energy state of atoms. It causes molecules to vibrate in synch with the frequency of the radiation. This has been discussed.

2) Yes, there is such a thing as radiation pressure. I don't see how that is applicable to the discussion.

3) Electromagnetic radiation is not the same as electricity. There is no flow of electrons in electromagnetic radiation. You cannot power an electric motor with radio waves.





new topics

top topics



 
13
<< 2  3  4    6  7 >>

log in

join