Can HAARP Create Earthquakes?

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posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 06:18 AM
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Before making any sort of statement I would like to request the following:

Please try and keep posts in this thread based on fact and not hearsay, on science and not flights of fancy.

The purpose is to investigate whether HAARP and other arrays of its kind can indeed create the conditions required to generate and earthquake, and if this can be directed against a specific area.

Despite the fact that this is a conspiracy site, and there is a conspiracy theory theory that HAARP can create earthquakes, little is ever presented by way of proof.

This thread has come about as the result of a friendly disagreement on another thread and has been moved here in order not to go way off topic on the other thread.

I would request that the moderators of this thread be a strict as possible about off topic posting in this thread as it has a very serious purpose.

I would also request please that we try and keep this about HAARP and Earthquakes as the title suggests rather than all the other things attributed to it, unless they are germane to the earthquake side of it.

I shall shortly post the story so far but let me first give you my position on this.

First I do NOT deny the possibility. I have an open mind and am perfectly happy to accept that HAARP can do this if proof is provided, and by proof I mean scientific proof - a description of the process by which this can occur.

======================


The story so far


======================



Someone posted in the Yellowstone thread that HAARP was going to be used, in effect, to set-off Yellowstone. I challenged this view, however the poster either declined to back up his/her statement or was not able to.

Another poster responded in this post:

The bones of it are here but I would recommend reading the whole post:


The info I have is that even though the HAARP tests are still at a low level, the program already have the capability to trigger floods, volcanic eruptions, earthquakes and stormy weather conditions due to the known ELF frequency that can penetrate the Earth's surface and detect hidden bunkers, oil, gas e.t.c.

......

With HAARP, they thought they would have a little more versatility and the ability to communicate at higher data rates and more efficiently with submarines at depth.



Brooks Agnew, a specialist in the area of earth penetrating tomography, did research back in the 1970s using 30 watts of electricity to send a signal into the earth to locate underground oil and gas deposits.



This statement was echoed in a lecture given by the previous Secretary of Defense, Cohen, on April 27, 1997 at the University of Georgia. He was speaking on weapons of mass destruction and he asserted that "electromagnetic waves can be used to stimulate geophysical events such as earthquakes, climate change, volcanic eruptions and the like".


My initial reaction to this was gob smacked. See my response.

Then I sat back and thought about it for a while and set out to do some research.

The two main points that I picked up on were the speech by Secretary of Defense Cohen and the higher data rates. My other point was the credibility of Brooks Agnew.

I cannot set out the whole reply here as that is a violation of the T & C but I urge you to go and read it as a knowledge of what I said is required to see how this thread evolved before making a response here.

So have at it folks. Prove that HAARP can generate earthquakes, but keep it topical and clean please!




posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 06:26 AM
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By the way, just for your information. A long time ago I had my butt chewed off by a respected member of ATS who has since apparently gone AWOL, on the subject of why radio frequencies cannot generate vibrations.

I have reason to believe from subsequent research that this is the case, and to a degree this is the basis of my argument against HAARP being able to create earthquakes, at least by direct radio waves.

As I said in the OP I am open to persuasion.



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 06:34 AM
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Yes , but only small earth quakes , haarp is used to locate oil ,water , it gives off certain vibrations or sounds when it hits oil , its like plucking a guitar string......harrp is not used for evil , there is no profit in destroying the planet .



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 06:55 AM
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reply to post by bdb818888
 


Personally I agree with you that HAARP is not used for evil. Your comment however highlights the problem which generated this thread. HOW does it do that?

As yet I have not found an explanation. It cannot be that it is because it is 'secret' since there must be a scientific explanation.



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 07:05 AM
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Yes HAARP can indeed cause earth quakes it could well within scientific reasoning split the very earth in 2 if its resonating frequency was strong enough and the duration long enough as its effects would only grow in length of time in use... for proof begin by looking up all u can on Nikola Tesla... The Government has all the good stuff locked away though



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 07:16 AM
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reply to post by ValValient4
 


It is my understanding that Tesla and his 'earth splitting' technology was based on vibrations utilising the resonant frequency of an object.

In our school chapel I have seen this effect when a certain note on the organ was played and the windows began to rattle. Our physics master calculated that eventually the organ note could reduce the chapel to rubble.

But can a radio wave do this? That is the question.
edit on 14/2/2011 by PuterMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by ValValient4
Yes HAARP can indeed cause earth quakes it could well within scientific reasoning split the very earth in 2 if its resonating frequency was strong enough and the duration long enough as its effects would only grow in length of time in use... for proof begin by looking up all u can on Nikola Tesla... The Government has all the good stuff locked away though


Actually, you would be only about half right. Your premise is sound enough, however it does not apply to HAARP. The resonating frequency of the earth (known as the Schumann resonances) is very low, in or below the ELF bands. HAARP is high frequency. Tesla did build an "earthquake machine" that used mechanical resonance to create an earthquake, but it did not operate in any of the high frequency bands. On the other hand, Tesla's Wardenclyffe tower did use high frequency energies transmitted via the ionosphere to cause the Tunguska disaster, so HAARP could still potentially be weaponized to devastating effect...



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 07:38 AM
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reply to post by PsychoHazard
 


Thanks for responding. We are getting into the right area with this.


On the other hand, Tesla's Wardenclyffe tower did use high frequency energies transmitted via the ionosphere to cause the Tunguska disaster, so HAARP could still potentially be weaponized to devastating effect...


Now, given that it is my understanding that Tunguska was caused by a comet or bolide, the information that it was caused by Tesla is new to me. Can you provide some further information to support this? The premise of my 'opponent' in the OP is that HAARP can create ELF waves, but you are saying high frequencies and have discounted the ELF element. If you could provide further information on this I would be grateful.



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 07:50 AM
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i am not quite sure how ALOT of members here justify saying that haarp is a weather machine and it is causing natural disasters, it really is mind boggling how paranoid some people are.


oh ya i know i must be a dis-info agent now,lol

no i just know science and a high power radio frequency transmitter is not causingnatural disasters.
edit on 14-2-2011 by Gixxer because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 08:02 AM
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Surely this should be simple.

1; What are the resonant frequencies required to trigger earthquakes in specific locations?

?

2; Can HAARP produce those frequencies?

If Yes; see question 3
If No; HAARP cannot cause earthquakes

3; Can HAARP direct those frequencies to those locations?

If Yes; HAARP can theoretically create earquakes
If No; HAARP cannot cause earthquakes



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by PuterManNow, given that it is my understanding that Tunguska was caused by a comet or bolide, the information that it was caused by Tesla is new to me. Can you provide some further information to support this?


Here's one.
mondovista.com...
You can find a lot more with a search for Tesla and Tunguska.


Originally posted by PuterManThe premise of my 'opponent' in the OP is that HAARP can create ELF waves, but you are saying high frequencies and have discounted the ELF element. If you could provide further information on this I would be grateful.


To begin with, it's kinda right in the name (HAARP = High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program, ELF = Extremely Low Frequency) so that would be my first tip that HAARP doesn't operate in ELF. A bit more can be found in the wikipedia entry on HAARP, particularly in the instrumentation section:

en.wikipedia.org...

There's also additional info at the HAARP home site:

www.haarp.alaska.edu...

I'd provide more info, but I'm at work right now so I don't have all my links. A few searches on google should provide more info fairly easily though.



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 08:34 AM
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Originally posted by quackers
Surely this should be simple.

1; What are the resonant frequencies required to trigger earthquakes in specific locations?

?

2; Can HAARP produce those frequencies?

If Yes; see question 3
If No; HAARP cannot cause earthquakes

3; Can HAARP direct those frequencies to those locations?

If Yes; HAARP can theoretically create earquakes
If No; HAARP cannot cause earthquakes


1. What are the resonant frequencies required to trigger earthquakes in specific locations? Not known but assuming 1 to 10 Hz (That may be wrong)
2. Can HAARP produce those frequencies?
3. If Yes; goto 5 else can HAARP induce the ionosphere to create these frequencies?
4. If no; HAARP cannot cause earthquakes: end
5. Are the frequencies that HAARP produces or induces radio frequencies or vibrations?
6. If vibrations; goto 9
7. If radio frequencies, can these affect physical fault lines?
8. If yes; goto 9 else HAARP cannot cause earthquakes: end
9. Can HAARP direct those frequencies to those locations?
10. If yes goto 11 else HAARP cannot cause earthquakes: end
11. HAARP can theoretically create earthquakes

(No comments about the use of goto please!
)



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 09:04 AM
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reply to post by PsychoHazard
 


Thanks for responding. The information that I have found for Wardenclyffe Tower is:


By 1905, since Tesla could not find any more backers, most of the site's activity had to be shut down. Employees
were laid off in 1906, but parts of the building remained in use until 1907. In 1908, the property was foreclosed for
the first time.


Source

From your source:

It's 7:17 AM on the morning of June 30, 1908, the exact moment when Nikoli Tesla is testing his "Death Ray" by aiming his beam towards the Arctic Cirle where he hopes Admiral Peary will see a visual display in the sky.


Tunguska is approximately 11 hours ahead of New York.

So, at 20:17 on the evening of June 29th, 1908 Tesla fired a device from a building that had been foreclosed in the hope that an Admiral would see it even though it was still daylight (I think) and the actual 'event' was in excess of 5000 miles away the other side of the North Pole and at it's detonation height would not have been visible.

This strikes me as rather a bad demonstration, and it would seem possibly not from the building in question unless you can throw any further light on that. To be fair I don't think the article actually stated that it was fired from that point.

Thanks for the links to HAARP on Wiki and the HAARP home page. Actually I am very familiar with those since the induction magnetometer readings from the HAARP site are very much a part of the earthquake research I am undertaking at present, but I have no doubt that others will find them of interest.

Once again links offered point to the radio nature of HAARP and no one has come up with an explanation as to how this can cause a fault to resonate.

Perhaps we should concentrate first on whether radio waves can actually cause something to vibrate physically and then we will be closer to an answer on HAARP.
edit on 14/2/2011 by PuterMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 09:15 AM
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There may be something in the pdf attained here
As to the authenticity of what's in there I can't say, but there's plenty of factual geographic locations, genuine back history and possible science to pass a little time.



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 09:21 AM
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Chile is shaking lately :

14.02.2011 05:25:32 5.9 South-America Chile
14.02.2011 04:55:13 6.6 South America Chile
14.02.2011 13:30:36 5.0 South-America Chile



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 09:42 AM
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reply to post by OptimisticPessimist
 


I could not get that link to download anything. Is there another route to it?

Scrub that: I managed to download it using Chrome.

edit on 14/2/2011 by PuterMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 09:43 AM
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you know if they could create earthquakes they prob brag about it on their website ..

as to hearing about haarp, honestly i dont care im sick and tired of hearing about haarp



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by alysha.angelas to hearing about haarp, honestly i dont care im sick and tired of hearing about haarp


Apparantly not sick & tired enough, as you've brought yourself to a HAARP thread with the express intent to post on it.

I often wonder on the motivation that drives some to wish to contribute nothing to a dabate, yet still feel inclined to intrude upon one, apparantly, only to tell us they 'don't want to talk about it...'



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 09:52 AM
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reply to post by PuterMan
 


offcourse it can do it!
IT IS DOING IT RIGHT NOW...
after a few "reversals" somewere in ASIA...



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 09:54 AM
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Originally posted by OptimisticPessimist

Originally posted by alysha.angelas to hearing about haarp, honestly i dont care im sick and tired of hearing about haarp


Apparantly not sick & tired enough, as you've brought yourself to a HAARP thread with the express intent to post on it.

I often wonder on the motivation that drives some to wish to contribute nothing to a dabate, yet still feel inclined to intrude upon one, apparantly, only to tell us they 'don't want to talk about it...'


lmao


but i did add my thoughts to this haarp nonsense,,,,

i said that if they could create earthquakes that they would most likely brag about it on their website ....

and besides that what would be the point? major quakes happen naturally ...
but i do believe that they have the ability to move quakes right before they happen to another location...






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