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Can HAARP Create Earthquakes?

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posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 10:00 PM
Well, Putterman. This might end much of my participation in this thread. Giving credit and link to "Public", "Non-classified" or "De-classified" documents are ok, but NOT for "Classified documents".

I'll try to figure another way to get us going in "the right direction".
In the meantime, whenever I have to quote Classified documents, I'll rewrite it a bit or I'll use email or Pm to you.

posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 10:09 PM

Originally posted by Roald
Energy blasted upward from an ionospheric heater is not much compared to the total in the ionosphere, but HAARP documents and documents from our own EISCAT admit that thousandfold-greater amounts of energy can be released in the ionosphere than injected, so let's cut the crap.

Yes. Please. Let's do cut the crap.

Please provide just one of those HAARP or EISCAT documents which claim "thousandfold-greater" increases in injected energy. Oh, I see. Your information is "classified".

The generation of induced ELF radiation by ionospheric heaters is very inefficient, on the order of .003%.

For the original 960 kW HF HAARP array, radiated ELF power was estimated to range between 2 W and 30 W[Moore et al., 2007; Platino et al., 2006]. Assuming a best case linear scaling, the 3.6 MW HAARP array has a maximum ELF radiation power on the order of 100 W, compared to over 1 kW for the Siple transmitter [Helliwell,1988]. Therefore, HAARP ELF waves injected into the magnetosphere are likely often close to the minimum threshold necessary for magnetospheric amplification on highly active paths[Helliwell et al., 1980].
The ELF produced by HAARP is barely strong enough to be subject to whistler mode amplification and then only under good conditions.

Regarding Electromagnetic control of earthquake dynamics?

Our results may serve as an indication of the possible control of dynamics of a complex seismic process by strong EM impacts,at least in the temporal domain. We suppose that, released by a series of EM discharges, energy my lead to dynamical stabilization of a high dimensional crustal system responsible for the temporal distribution of earthquakes.
It sounds interesting but two things stand out in the article.
1) The experiments involved "strong EM impacts", 1.2-23.1MJ produced by a dipole current of .28-2.8kA. That is a lot of power.
2) The electrical pulses had durations of 1.7-12.1 seconds. That is not radio frequency energy.
3) Due to the high noise levels of this (and any seismic study), extensive statistical techniques are employed in order to search for correlations. It is difficult to state conclusively state that the seismic observations were the result of the electrical discharges.
4) The conclusions of the experiment do not in include the production of earthquakes. Instead it was found that micro-seismicity may have become more regular (less erratic) during the period of discharges and more erratic (than prior to the experiments) afterward. The results do not appear conclusive by any means (thus the "?" in the title?), show a slight shift from a random distribution to the periodic.
5) While several possible mechanisms for the proposed influence of the electric discharges on seismic activity were found, none of them apply to ELF radiation.
I see nothing in that article which would indicate that HAARP can generate earthquakes, destructive or otherwise. But who knows, maybe by applying an extremely stong electrical pulse through the ground in certain regions, strong earthquakes could be mitigated.

"Discharge of Tectonic Stresses in the Earth Crust by High-power Electric
Pulses for Earthquake Hazard Mitigation"
Discusses the same apparent phenomenon and proposes a mechanism. Unrelated to radio waves.

Please explain the significance of "Electrical Properties of Rocks" in relation to the ELF radiation produced by ionospheric heaters.

The possibility of geomagnetic precursors to seismic activity is a separate and interesting topic.

posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 11:55 PM
reply to post by Phage
I do not see any reason to be sarcastic.
The "nonlinear" effects (JOURNAL OF GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH, VOL. 115, A00F04, doi:10.1029/2009JA014610, 2010) mean small input and large output.

posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 12:11 AM
Yes it can and it often does.

posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 02:40 AM
reply to post by Red Cloak

I have told you before if you are going to make statements like that back them up otherwise they are meaningless. Part of the reason this thread was started was because of your refusal to backup you theories, mainly I suspect because you are unable to.. Despite that you continue to spread disinformation, something you accused me of.

Source or it did not happen.

posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 02:52 AM
reply to post by Roald

Have anyone heard about or studied: "Electromagnetic control of earthquake dynamics", "Discharge of Tectonic Stresses in the Earth Crust by High-power Electric" or "Electrical Properties of Rocks"?

Putterman, if you have heard about it, connect it with another interesting field, "pre-earthquake signals".

I have not heard of either of the first three specifically but I am currently amassing a large amount of material on earthquake pre-cursors, in particular those which are angled towards the electrical aspects.

Since the Electric Universe is currently my area of study these are all of great interest, but discharge of tectonic stress is more along the lines that Phage mentioned, i.e. towards dissipating an earthquake rather than creating one.

The inference has always been that HAARP can create an ELF 'vibration'. As far as I can see this is still unproven and no one has yet come up with a mechanism whereby this would be possible, i.e. the conversion of a radio signal at say 6Hz to a vibration at 6Hz.

posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 02:53 AM
reply to post by Roald

Your link does not appear to be a link. Could you repost it please?

Don't worry I found it

Amplitude and phase of nonlinear magnetospheric wave growth excited by the HAARP HF heater

The average nonlinear resonant current vector is found to rotate in relation to the input wavefields during growth, and the magnetospheric linear growth rate is estimated to be 31–45 dB/s.

I have no idea what that actually means but it still does not explain conversion to earthquake triggering vibrations.
edit on 17/2/2011 by PuterMan because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 03:06 AM
reply to post by Roald

Nonlinear amplification means that what comes out is not the same as what goes in.

However, whistler mode amplification is often characterized by nonlinear effects such as modification of the electron distribution and generation of wave frequencies different from that of the input wave.
Those changes (including changes in amplitude) are dependant upon the conditions in the ionosphere.

Yes, whistler mode amplification can occur under favorable conditions.

Previous results show that the HAARP facility is most effective in injecting signals directly overhead [Piddyachiyet al., 2008] and observations of amplification are most frequent when the plasmasphere extends to HAARP latitudes or higher [Gołkowski et al., 2008].

No, it does not turn a low powered VLF signal into a megawatt signal. If it did, sensitive receivers (AWESOME) would not be require to detect it. To give you an idea of the levels involved; the amplified signals detected in the above article reach levels of .2pT. The signals produced by lighting strikes, detected at distances of more than 500km range up to 100pT. An amplitude up to 500 times greater but still a weak signal.

HAARP does not produce high powered ELF radio waves.
Whistler mode amplification does not turn low powered ELF radio waves into high powered radio waves.
ELF radio waves (low powered or high powered) cannot cause movement, vibrations, or heating of earth.
edit on 2/17/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 04:50 AM
reply to post by PuterMan
It was more meant for Phage.

Anyway, if you got the file, just read it. Take with you ELF/VLF Wave-injection and Magnetospheric Probing with HAARP Stanford also, even so it's all about HAARP.

posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 07:37 AM
reply to post by Roald

yes, HAARP can and does produce earthquakes

for example, the Haiti earthquake.

this spectrometer picks up the ULF that HAARP gives off (the details of how this is done are on the page)

the haiti earthquake started on 12th january 2010 at 21:53 UTC

now, if you look back several days before the quake, you can see NO activity whatsoever, until the 10th of january, wherean extremely strong, calculated and distinct signal comes out of nowhere. This signal keeps the same strength, frequency and prowess for 2 days, ending as abruptly as it started, on january 12th at 17:00 UTC, 4 hours before the haiti earthquake strikes.

here is a link to this spectrometer

HAARP spectrometer

to search for a date, go to the bottom of the page and use the format YYYYMMDD, input 20100110 for 2010, 10th jan

you can use the 24h/forward/back options to cycle through the days

posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 11:37 AM
We have a lot of new members on ATS that may not be aware of the older posts on this subject.
For historical archival purposes we might need to go back as far as the German foo fighter tales to determine paternity for the Haarp technology.

Some people involved in government technical projects are required to sign open ended and general non disclosure documents. Just because an explanation sounds like crap doesn't mean it can't convey.

It is a fact that long before Katrina made landfall Haarp activity increased. The actual cause and effect analysis seems to indicate that the military forecasters recognized the potential for a powerful storm and powered up the ionosphere heaters to facilitate ship to shore communication ahead of the crisis. The ionosphere heaters increase the reflectivity of the Ionosphere. Its vaguely analogous to the way the kerr effect can be used to control optical polarity with a tiny current.

Now if you are a government contractor that knows about either "secret weather forecasting" facilities or the "Haarp project" or "particular applications of the Kerr effect" then you can't relay information if you have signed a non disclosure agreement can you?

This thread is a good training exercise to show how UFOlogy works. Once we establish a particular UFO connection we can move it like furniture. Instead of Haarp facilities causing Hurricanes we talk about them causing earthquakes. The reverse analysis indicates that the government may have advance monitoring and warning systems for earthquakes whatever they are. So then the initiated UFOlogist thinks about applications of the Kerr effect that might fit with seismographic measurement. I'll cover this one so we don't waste Phage's time.

posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 12:21 PM
The thing I wonder about is, is it at all technologically possible?

Isnt classified technology ahead of what is commercially available ?

posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 08:41 PM
reply to post by bepreparedd
Maybe we rather should say that it can trigger quakes in already stressed faults?
My problem is just how to explain it in easy understandable terms.

The facility in Alaska have 180 antenna units, organized in 15 columns by 12 rows, yielding a theoretical maximum gain of 31 dB, and a total of 3.6 MW (Mega Watt) of transmitter power will feed it. That mean a total effective radiated power (ERP) 3,9 GW (Giga Watt).

So, what do they tell us they want?



And did you know that scientists behind HAARP have explained and described how they can 'paint or draw pictures in the sky' using the radio waves beamed into the Ionosphere?

posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 11:46 PM
OP, do you really think you're going to get a suitable answer to your question by asking it here? Sorry, but you won't. What you will get is an incomprehensible mishmash of claims, counter-claims and disinfo that's guaranteed to leave you more confused than ever. I'd be especially wary of anyone who purports to know the full potential and capabilities of HAARP.

This is the kind of question you'll have to research yourself, unless you expect anyone to explain scalar weapons and hyperdimensional physics. I know very little about either, but I suspect the following is a lot closer to the truth than anything I've read here:

HAARP, Earthquakes, and Hurricanes

Can HAARP manipulate storms, hurricanes, and earthquakes? There is definitely a correlation between these events and when HAARP is active. This article will give some examples of that correlation. And while that alone does not prove a direct causal relationship, the physics of HAARP and the political agenda behind the program suggest that weather and earthquake manipulation is both possible and likely.

Physics of HAARP

What makes these ionospheric heaters so useful is that they consist of phased arrays. A phased array is a grid of antennas whose phases (timing) and amplitudes are individually adjustable. This means a great variety of different combinations can be tried out, synthesizing new and complex total wave forms. Phasing allows the output to be pointed in different directions without having to move the antennas themselves.

For anyone familiar with the works of Tom Bearden, phased arrays also allow for partial phase conjugation or canceling of the emitted electromagnetic waves. When EM waves have either (or both) of their electric and magnetic components canceled, the contained energy takes the form of a longitudinal / potential / scalar / gravitational / temporal wave instead.

Ionospheric heaters can also “control electron density gradients and the refractive properties in selected regions of the ionosphere” meaning it can modulate ionospheric electron density. That is another powerful method of generating longitudinal waves, using the sky itself as a giant longitudinal antenna.

And so phased arrays can be used to generate an entirely different type of radiation, one that cannot be detected with standard EM-measuring instruments. Depending on their frequency and type, these waves can theoretically affect human emotion and biology, influence the weather, alter tectonic dynamics, and even manipulate our surrounding hyper-dimensional environment to allow for controlled invisibility and interdimensional maneuvering of military personnel and vehicles. In essence, everything that regular electromagnetic waves cannot really do.

This much I find plausible, that HAARP-like technologies are active on a level superseding those of regular electromagnetism, and that this is what HAARP and its sister facilities are really being used for. It is nothing the public knows about or can comprehend because this technology uses an expanded kind of physics of which only a small and sterilized subset comprises mainstream college textbooks. But it can be figured out if you have a physics background and study the implications and applications of force-free potential fields.

posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 04:48 AM
So, we are here talking about H.A.A.R.P. "High-frequency Active Auroral Research Project". Note the word ACTIVE.

The HAARP fact sheet states that "most of the energy of the high-power beam would be emitted upward rather than toward the horizon." But other government documents reveal that "80-90 percent of the experiments would "refract fundamental radio frequency energy Earthward from the ionosphere"

The military's own Executive Summary of the HAARP program clearly states their reliance on ELF waves. Instead of transmitting these waves from ground based transmitters, HAARP created these waves through the use of "pulse" transmissions of their HF energy beams. Or, to put it another way, HAARP duplicated the ELF signals by turning their signal on and off at rates (30 to 3000 cycles per second) within the ELF range. The result is that ELF radiation could be directed to a specific area on the surface of the planet, at will.

Have anyone here by any chances studied HAARP and the option of "follow-up power beam" or that HAARP/HIPAS do work in conjunction?

posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 01:59 AM

In super potential theory, which was initiated by a paper by E.T. Whittaker in 1904, it is possible to produce EM force fields and force field energy at a distance. Whittaker showed that all EM fields and waves can be decomposed into two scalar potential functions. It follows that, by assembling two such scalar potential functions in beams , one can produce a scalar potential interferometer where the potential beams intersect at a distance. In that interference zone, ordinary transverse EM fields and energy appear.

So, is it difficult to make a scalar potential? No, because the scalar potential is just a harmonic assembly of bidirectional longitudinal EM wave pairs.

Here’s how the weather engineering is usually accomplished:
First, take two scalar potential beam transmitters, separated on the necessary baseline to form a beam interferometer . ( HAARP/HIPAS or HAARP/EISCAT near Tromsø, Norway).

Check The WIND-HAARP-HIPAS Interferometer Experiment at the DOD Network Information Center, and HAARP HIGH POWER EXPERIMENTS from the same DOD Network Information Center for more info.

Now in that distant interference zone (IZ) , there is an ambient vacuum potential (space-time potential, or space-time stress). If the electrical circuit grounds of the interferometer transmitters are biased ABOVE the ambient potential in the interference zone IZ, then scattering EM energy (heating) emerges in the IZ. This is the exothermic mode of operation. If the electrical circuit grounds of the interferometer are biased negatively below the ambient potential in the interference zone IZ, then convergent EM energy (cooling) emerges in the IZ. This is the endothermic mode of operation.

So by merely biasing the electrical grounds of a scalar potential interferometer , they can produce heating or cooling in the distant interference zone IZ. If they just "radiates," they produce distant steady heating or steady cooling. If they sharply pulses the interferometer, they produce a distant hot explosion or a distant cold explosion .

They can also, of course, form various forms of energy at a distance, including particularly hemispheric shells of energy and spherical shells of energy.

So, let’s do some weather engineering.
Focus the interference zone (IZ) on the other side of the earth (beam right through the earth and ocean) to a given desired area in the atmosphere. Bias your transmitters positively. You produce atmospheric heating in the air in the IZ, so that the air expands and you have produced a "low" pressure zone. Now use a second interferometer biased negatively, and place it at a distant IZ desired. In that IZ, you cool the air so that it shrinks and becomes denser, and you have created a "high" pressure area. Now place several such interference zones (IZ’s) , with the desired highs and lows, near a jet stream. The jet stream will be deviated toward a low and away from a high. By varying the transmitted energy and the interference zones (IZ’s) , location (just move it gradually along), you can entrain and steer the jet streams, and therefore effectively "steer" the resulting weather.

Want to create tornadoes?
Just make several sharp bends in the jet streams, and also speed them up a bit. The additional angular momentum imparted to the air masses will spawn off littler rotations (tornadoes). By focusing the interference zones (IZ’s) underneath the ocean, one can heat or cool the water in a selected area, over a period of time. So you can aggravate or ease El Niño , e.g.

Want to make earthquakes?
Just focus the interference zones (IZ’s) in a large fault zone -- say such as the San Andreas Fault in California. Use the exothermic interferometry mode. You deposit energy slowly in that fault zone. The stress increases. Eventually the plate edges shift and you have an earthquake. If you want a very powerful quake, put the energy in gradually, so that a sort of "over potential " or "overpressure " builds up, past where the rocks would normally slip. Then when they let go, you’ve got a real nice big one. You can see what might happen if they also toy around with a sleeping volcano .

posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 03:08 AM
reply to post by Roald

In 1904 electromagnetic theory was in its infancy.

E. T. Whittaker, "On an Expression of the Electromagnetic Field Due to Electrons by Means of Two Scalar Potential Functions," Proc. Lond. Math. Soc., Vol. 1, 1904, p. 367-372.

The object of the present paper is to show that when any number of electrons are moving in any manner, the functions which define the resulting electrodynamics field, namely, the three components of dielectric displacement in the aether and the three components of the magnetic force at every point of the field can be expressed in terms of the derivates of two scalar potential functions.

The theory depends on the existence of "the aether". The aether has been shown to be not existent. Electromagnetic radiation does not require a medium through which to propagate.

As an interesting side note, Whittaker wrote that Poincare' and Lorentz developed the theory of special relativity. He claimed that Poincare' conceived of the formula E=mc^2. Einstein's abolition of the idea of "the aether" may have had something to do with his opinion.

There is no aether, Whittaker was wrong, and the existence of "scalar waves" has never been demonstrated.

And, again, you are supposed to provide the source of your external quotes. Tom Bearden is a fraud.

edit on 2/20/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 04:23 AM
I believe that HAARP can and has caused quakes and has also effected/manipulated weather.

However when will they be using it to protect the earth from CME's? Or can it be done?

posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 09:26 PM
reply to post by Phage

Ok, so you do not like E. T. Whittaker and Tom Bearden is a fraud.
Then lets try another angle.

Can a scalar potential interferometer be produced?

transverse (Electromagnetic) EM fields
Quantum origin of transverse electromagnetic fields
Robert M.Yamaleev
Department of Physics
Universidad Nacional Autonoma de Mexico
Facultad de Estudios Superiores
Cuautitl´an Izcalli Av. 1-Mayo, Campo 1
C.P.54740, M´exico.

Proceedings of EPAC08, Genoa, Italy by:
E. Prat,
W. Decking,
M. Dohlus,
T. Limberg,
I. Zagorodnov,
DESY, Hamburg, Germany

Gigahertz Transverse Electromagnetic (GTEM!™) Cell - Model 5400 Series - Operation Manual from ETS-Lindgren.

Longitudinal (Electromagnetic) EM wave
Super-light Electromagnetic Wave with Longitudinal and Transversal Modes
from Electronic Journal of Theoretical Physics.
M. M. Kononenko∗
Institute of Applied Mechanics of Russian Academy of Science
Leninskiy prosp 32A, 119991, Moscow, Russia


Beam interferometer
To examine the operation of several kinds of interferometers.

B.S. University of Bucharest, 1994
M.A. Temple University, 1998
M.S. University of Central Florida, 2001

Originally posted by Phage..... the existence of "scalar waves" has never been demonstrated.

Don't you know that scalar waves are produced when two electromagnetic waves of the same frequency are exactly out of phase (opposite to each other) and the amplitudes subtract and cancel or destroy each other. The result is not exactly an annihilation of magnetic fields but a transformation of energy back into a scalar wave. This scalar field has reverted back to a vacuum state of potentiality. Don't you know that you can make your own Scalar waves by wrapping electrical wires around a figure eight in the shape of a möbius coil? When an electric current flows through the wires in opposite directions, the opposing electromagnetic fields from the two wires cancel each other and create a scalar wave.

posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 10:27 PM
reply to post by Roald

You listed articles (except one) about transverse fields and waves. Transverse fields exist. They have been demonstrated to exist. They are actually the basis of the wave model of electromagnetic theory. "Scalar waves" are longitudinal waves. They have not been demonstrated to exist (in electromagnetic form).

The article,
Theorizes a sort of longitudinal faster than light wave and says this:

If we are able to generate and detect this wave, we receive, at least, new means of radio communication.

Please provide the experimental results of an experiment demonstrating the generation and detection of this faster than light wave.

It is interesting that you would link to an article about polarization because the concept is difficult to reconcile with "scalar waves". You know, just because the word "scalar" appears, it does not mean it is "scalar waves" that are being talked about. Certain fields have scalar properties, this has nothing to do with "scalar waves".

The article about Tesla is talking about electrical current, the movement of electrons through a wire, not electromagnetic radiation. No "scalar waves" here. No longitudinal electromagnetic radiation.

This is the infamous single wire transmission line. It apparantly uses longitudinal waves! However, there is nothing crackpot about it, since it obeys conventional physics: the propagating electric and magnetic fields are at 90 degrees to each other. Successive globs of positive and negative charge-imbalance are moving along the coil, and these globs/waves are linked to each other via the surrounding EM fields. The EM fields are transverse. And the only thing which acts like a "longitudinal" wave is the density of free electrons in the wire. Is this crazy stuff? Nope. All circuits have longitudinal waves in their charge density. It's not much difference than a coax cable. Within a normal piece of coax, the electrons of the metal move as part of a compression wave, even though the EM fields within the cable's dielectric remain part of a transverse wave.

It would be an interesting experiment to attempt the complete 180º phase superimposition of electromagnetic energy. The problem is that electromagnetic energy disperses, it would be a very difficult experiment to design. The reality is what you get is interference patterns, regions where the energy is reduced and regions where the energy is enhanced. It is not "transformed" into "scalar waves".

edit on 2/20/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

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