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Can HAARP Create Earthquakes?

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posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 05:30 PM
Radiowaves can creat a resonance/ vibration. Look at your microwave oven, its a little radiotransmitter ! Radiowaves resonate/ vibrating the molecules of your food and warms it up by rubbing/resonate/vibrating the molecules. The earth resonates on a other frequensy, but if you tune in on the right one it wil start resonating. As for radiowaves from the sun, that causes ( i think) earthquakes.It's a theory, Maybe someone wil be experimenting in his/her kitchen with all types of rock in his/her microwave oven? Puterman you did it again

Sorry for my Englisch
edit on 14-2-2011 by ni91ck because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 06:37 PM
reply to post by ni91ck

Thanks nick, at last someone with a potential reason as to how it could be done. My understanding is that micro-waves are high frequency, so could that also be applied to low frequency waves?

Would this not indicate a heating that would be seen? Any further ideas on this?

As for radiowaves from the sun, that causes ( i think) earthquakes.It's a theory

Yes it is a theory that appears to have some sort of basis, but is that not magnetic? Maybe not.

I can see that the ionosphere can be heated by HAARP and so yes I guess you could call it a massive microwave oven. How does that get transferred downwards and how can it be directed?
edit on 14/2/2011 by PuterMan because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 07:27 PM
Even if HAARP could cause earthQuakes and do evil things we don't have anything to worry about. Our Government loves us. They wouldn't hurt a single one of us for any reason. I have heard them say that they would rather poke their eyes out with a red hot poker than to hurt 1 strand on any of our heads...So everyone can relax..Just do as they order, give them all your hard earned money, watch t.v., and pay your taxes every year, and above all, remember, they love us with all their HEARTS, especially today, Valentines Day......

P/s...Send them a card and let them know you love them too......

posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 10:58 PM
Well, heat is the energy produced when atoms/molecules are in some way made to vibrate more. The more their vibrate the larger the amount of heat. Heat and thermal energy are the same thing. Because a change in energy manifests itself as radiation according to the equation E = h*nu where E is the change in energy, h is Planck's constant and "nu" is the frequency of the radiation.
From the photoelectric effect, Einstein showed that electromagnetic radiation can also behave as though it were a particle, we call a "photon".
The heat produced by rubbing two rocks together, the warmth we feel from a fire place, are all electromagnetic radiation in the infrared region of the electromagnetic spectrum. It's all the same whether we are rubbing rocks or under the covers with our electric blanket. Whether it is more convenient to describe it as a wave or as a photon particle is our choice -- the object of our description is what it is. It doesn't change; it's our description
that changes depending upon what is more meaningful to us -- a wave or a particle.

posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 01:19 AM
reply to post by PuterMan
Ok, Putterman. Thank's for starting this thread.

Lets start with some background first.

It was the US Navy who were responsible for Project “Prime Argus” - a precursor program to HAARP. Argus was responsible for exploding three atomic bombs in the Van Allen belts and, thereafter monitoring the resultant effects. Researchers who have recently investigated the son of Argus, project HAARP, maintain this is an advanced weapon system capable of acting as an impenetrable planetary-wide missile shield.

Behind the construction of HAARP lay the scientific patents of Bernard J. Eastlund. Previously classified as Secret, Eastlund’s patents are now partly available for inspection. They are revealing for the sheer scope of what the HAARP project may be capable of, including “weather modification.” Eastlund had in fact used much of Tesla’s work to arrive at his concepts, a fact he openly acknowledged. Moreover, the original Prime Argus project was also concerned with looking “at ways to cause earthquakes.”

As we know, the HAARP Program is jointly managed by the US Air Force and the US Navy, and they themselves are saying that HAARP system could:
* give the military a tool to replace the electromagnetic pulse effect of atmospheric thermonuclear devices (still considered a viable option through at least 1986);
* replace the huge Extremely Low Frequency (ELF) submarine communication system operating in Michigan and Wisconsin with a new and more compact technology;
* be used to replace the over-the-horizon radar system that was once planned for the current location of HAARP with a more flexible and accurate system;
* provide a way to wipe out communications over an extremely large area, while keeping the military's own communications systems working;
* provide a wide-area Earth-penetrating tomography which, if combined with the computing abilities of EMASS and Cray computers, would make it possible to verify many parts of nuclear nonproliferation and peace agreements;
* be a tool for geophysical probing to find oil, gas and mineral deposits over a large area;
* be used to detect incoming low-level planes and cruise missiles, making other technologies obsolete.

This claimed capabilities we should be able to agree upon.

But even so the above abilities seem like a good idea to all who believe in sound national defense, and to those concerned about cost-cutting. However, the possible uses which the HAARP records do not explain, and which can only be found in Air Force, Army, Navy and other federal agency records, are alarming. Moreover, effects from the reckless use of these power levels in our natural shield -- the ionosphere -- could be cataclysmic according to some scientists.

Bernard J. Eastlund's U.S. Patent # 4,686,605, "Method and Apparatus for Altering a Region in the Earth's Atmosphere, Ionosphere; and/or Magnetosphere," was sealed for a year under a government Secrecy Order.
The patent said:

"Thus, this invention provides the ability to put unprecedented amounts of power in the Earth's atmosphere at strategic locations and to maintain the power injection level particularly if random pulsing is employed, in a manner far more precise and better controlled than heretofore accomplished by the prior art, particularly by detonation of nuclear devices of various yields at various altitudes... "

" is possible not only to interfere with third party communications but to take advantage of one or more such beams to carry out a communications network even though the rest of the world's communications are disrupted. Put another way, what is used to disrupt another's communications can be employed by one knowledgeable of this invention as a communication network at the same time."

"... large regions of the atmosphere could be lifted to an unexpectedly high altitude so that missiles encounter unexpected and unplanned drag forces with resultant destruction."

"...Weather modification is possible by, for example, altering upper atmosphere wind patterns by constructing one or more plumes of atmospheric particles which will act as a lens or focusing device.

"... molecular modifications of the atmosphere can take place so that positive environmental effects can be achieved. Besides actually changing the molecular composition of an atmospheric region, a particular molecule or molecules can be chosen for increased presence. For example, ozone, nitrogen, etc., concentrations in the atmosphere could be artificially increased."

So, are then the following things left to disagree about?
H.A.R.P Earthquakes.
H.A.R.P Weather Modification.

edit on 15/2/2011 by Roald because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 01:36 AM





2.1. Geophysical Probing
2.2. Generation of ELF/VLF Waves
2.3. Generation of Ionospheric Holes/Lens
2.4. Electron Acceleration
2.5. Generation of Field Aligned Ionization
2.6. Oblique HF Heating
2.7. Generation of Ionization Layers Below 90 Km

3.1. Thresholds of Ionospheric Effects
3.2. General Ionospheric Issues
3.3. High Latitude Ionospheric Issues

4.1 Heater Characteristics
4.1.1 Effective-Radiated-power (ERP]
4.1.2 Frequency Range of Operation
4.1.3 Scanning Capabilities
4.1.4. Modes of Operation
4.1.5 Wave Polarization
4.1.6 Agility in Changing Heater Parameters

4.2. Heater Diagnostics
4.2.1. Incoherent Scatter Radar Facility
4.2.2. Other Diagnostics
4.2.3. Additional Diagnostics for ELF Generation Experiments

4.3. HF Heater Location
4.4. Estimated Cost of the New Heating Facility


6.1. Ionospheric Issues as They Relate to ELF Generation
6.1.1 Ionospheric Research Needs
6.1.2. Ionospheric Research Recommendations
6.2 HF to ELF Excitation Efficiency
6.2.1. Low-Altitude Heating Issues
6.2.2. Low-Altitude Heating Research Recommendations
6.2.3. High-Altitude Heating Issues
6.2.4. High-Altitude Heating Research Recommendations
6.3. Submarine Communication Issues Associated With Exploiting ELF Signals Generated in the Ionosphere by HF Heating
6.3.1. General Research Issues
6.3.2. Specific ELF Systems Issuesv 6.4. ELF System-Related Research Recommendations

7.1. HAARP Steering Group
7.2. Summary of HAARP Steering Group Activities and Schedule


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edit on Wed Feb 16 2011 by DontTreadOnMe because: Mod Note: Terms & Conditions Of Use – Please Review This Link.

posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 04:33 AM
reply to post by PuterMan

Can this created earthquakes on earth? Ther is not much to find about ELF freq from the sun.

Gopalswamy Nat, E. Aguilar, M. L. Kaiser, R. J. MacDowall
Solar System Exploration, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Bldg 21, Rm 260 Code 695, NASA/GSFC, Greenbelt, Maryland, USA MD 20771
Solar radio bursts of type II provide the earliest signature of shocks in the corona. These bursts are known from ground based observations for more than half a century. However, all metric type II bursts do not result in shocks in the interplanetary medium. Type II radio bursts at frequencies below about 15 MHz are indicative of shocks that significantly affect the inner heliosphere because the associated coronal mass ejections are fast and wide. These radio bursts have to be observed from space because the terrestrial ionosphere is opaque to radiation at frequencies below ~ 15 MHz. We present the properties of CMEs associated with type II bursts that extend from metric to kilometric wavelengths and describe a future mission known as the Solar radio Imaging Array (SIRA) to image these bursts for the first time. These type II bursts extending from metric to kilometric wavelengths originate from CMEs of the highest energy and represent an important aspect of Sun-Earth connection. Imaging these bursts provides a potential means of identifying those CMEs that can cause adverse conditions by accelerating charged particles and by direct impact.

The radio waves from HAARP bounces to the ionesphere back to the earth. I work with ham radio's and we talk to far places and it works with the ionesphere using the reflection of it! I think they use ther antenna array as a beam. Bouncing a calculated signal?? But my question is? If they communicaat with a submarine, how do they receive a signal back? I mean that a sub has not that equipment like HAARP on board? Is it one way communication? And i did'nt now that ELF freq are 300.000 KM in wave lenght? That is very long!

posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 06:03 PM
reply to post by Roald

Thanks Roald, no I think that weather modification is covered and I would accept that HAARP can do that so all we are left with is earthquakes.

posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 06:10 PM
reply to post by ni91ck

Hi nick

If they communicaat with a submarine, how do they receive a signal back? I mean that a sub has not that equipment like HAARP on board? Is it one way communication?

Yes it is a one way communication. Basically it is used as a signal to tell the sub to surface, or get up to sub-surface HF radio range, and use conventional radio.

posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 08:11 PM
reply to post by PuterMan
The HAARP transmitter generates strong radio waves in Alaska, some of which will propagate
along the magnetic field lines of the earth, and fall upon the point 56.19± S, 173.80±E.
This transmitter can operate as a modulated ionospheric heater causing ELF/VLF waves to develop high above the site. Some of these waves are ducted and propagate along the magnetic field lines of the earth. They return to the earth, along with other possible triggered effects, at the magnetic conjugate point.

edit on 15/2/2011 by Roald because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 09:29 PM
reply to post by Roald

The HAARP transmitter generates strong radio waves in Alaska, some of which will propagate along the magnetic field lines of the earth, and fall upon the point 56.19± S, 173.80±E.

OK, so that is the point, very close to the triple junction.

This transmitter can operate as a modulated ionospheric heater causing ELF/VLF waves to develop high above the site. Some of these waves are ducted and propagate along the magnetic field lines of the earth. They return to the earth, along with other possible triggered effects, at the magnetic conjugate point.

Ionospheric Heating by Magnetic Conjugate-Point Photoelectrons as a reference.
The Very Low Frequency (VLF) band

So what are you saying? This does not explain how HAARP can create earthquakes. So far no one, including you, has actually demonstrated that an ELF wave can be converted to a vibration that can trigger an earthquake. I am accepting here that the area to be triggered has to be under stress anyway.

Even if the HAARP array is 1 billion watts, i.e. 1 billion joules per second, how much of that is lost in the heating and conversion to ELF waves and in the propagation of the waves?

1 Gigajoule is about the energy released by a paltry 4.8 earthquake.

If you still maintain that HAARP can trigger earthquakes you are going to have to outline the mechanism by which this can be achieved. The suggestion that microwaves can generate heat by causing molecules to vibrate has some merit, but microwaves are high frequency. A waveform that is possibly as much as kilometres long does not have that capability as far as I can see. If ELF waves could do this we would be in serious trouble in our everyday lives from the huge number of ELF sources around us.

posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 12:05 AM
reply to post by PuterMan

I am getting to that, "step by step".

Many countries in the world operate large VLF transmitters mainly for navigation and communication with military submarines. The electromagnetic energy radiated by a VLF transmitter is trapped between the ground and the lower ionosphere forming the earthionosphere wave-guide. The sub-ionospheric VLF signals are reflected back by the lowermost region of the ionosphere. During the nighttime, it is the E-layer that reflects the VLF waves but in the daytime, the D-layer reflects the signals. So any change in the reflecting region of the ionosphere leads to corresponding change in the propagation of the VLF signal through the earth-ionosphere wave-guide.

VLF transmissions are caused due to different kinds of sources like solar flares, gamma-ray bursts, strong pulsars, impacts of meteors, lightning, geomagnetic storms, etc. In addition to these effects, one more effect has been suggested, i.e. the effect of earthquake or seismic activities on the lower ionosphere. Much before an earthquake takes place, the following processes could start causing ionospheric anomalies: (1) electric discharge during tectonic plate movements; (2) variations in the electric field, which causes heating of the ionosphere; (3) oscillation of magnetic field, which causes generation of VLF signals; (4) discharge of radioactive radon gas, which decays and increases the ionization of ionosphere; (5) emission of earthquake lights, sonoluminiscence, triboluminisence, etc.

It is recognized that ionosphere is very much sensitive to the seismic effects.

Because the auroral electrojet is frequently accessible from the H.A.A.R.P., one of the primary research areas has been the study of methods for generating frequencies in the ULF/ELF/VLF frequency ranges by using high power HF radio waves to modulate the conductivity of the ionospheric D and E layers.

Originally posted by PuterMan
reply to post by ni91ck
How does that get transferred downwards and how can it be directed?

When it comes to the problem regarding directing ELF/VLF wave, then we have "Geometric modulation". A more effective method of steerable ELF/VLF wave generation with continuous HF heating of the lower ionosphere. Also Performed at H.A.A.R.P.

Near HAARP, GM is less effective than AM below 2 kHz, but more effective above 3 kHz. For long distance observations, GM consistently produces substantially stronger signals than AM for ELF/VLF frequencies above 3 kHz, by as much as 7–11 dB. In addition, GM can lead to the creation of an unprecedented ELF phased array, capable of directed radiation at different azimuths within the EIW. Furthermore, additional improvements in both the resultant ELF/VLF amplitudes and the effective array directivity may yet be realized with further theoretical and experimental optimization.

posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 01:07 AM
reply to post by PuterMan
I'm not sure I understood your question to ni91ck when you was saying that: "My understanding is that micro-waves are high frequency, so could that also be applied to low frequency waves? ", but what they do is to use HF (primarily on 2 frequencies: 3.39 MHZ and 6.99 MHZ.) as the carrier signal and then they modulate it.
edit on 16/2/2011 by Roald because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 02:01 AM

edit on 16/2/2011 by Roald because: I have to figure out how to upload ilustration first

posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 02:38 AM
reply to post by Roald

I think this is your source GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH LETTERS, VOL. 35, L12101, doi:10.1029/2008GL034061, 2008

ELF/VLF data are taken with the so-called AWESOME. These broadband, high-sensitivity (typically femtoteslas) ELF/VLF receivers consist of two orthogonal air-core loop antennae, measuring the two horizontal components of the magnetic field between 350 Hz and 47 kHz. Data is synchronized to GPS with inherent 200 ns accuracy. The receivers include RFI-suppression filtering at the input to reject HF signals.

The ELF production which HAARP can induce (under favorable ionospheric conditions) requires well filtered and highly sensitive instruments to detect. It is a not very high energy signal produced very inefficiently from the 3.6Mw (at its source) beam.

GM inherently delivers 3 dB more HF power into the ionosphere compared to AM, yet provides a 7–11 dB enhancement, and is therefore more efficient by 4–8 dB, likely as a result of more efficient phasing of the heated region and utilization of the heating duty cycle.

Yes, "Geometric modulation" (wiggling the beam) produces a 9dB increase in over amplitude modulation (about 8x). Pretty exciting for researchers but if you're boosting a 30 watt signal to 250 watts its not such a big deal , interesting for communication possibilities but not much else:

Moore et al. [2007] demonstrated the long-distance observation of ELF waves produced using the HAARP HF transmitter at a ground distance of »4400 km from the transmitter at Midway Atoll. Observations were shown to be consistent with a radiated ELF/VLF power of ~4-32 Watts from an ionospheric altitude of ~75-80 km [Moore et al., 2007].

BTW, it is considered good form to provide your sources.

You haven't explained how radio waves of high or low frequency can produce earthquakes. Microwaves produce heat (not vibration) through dielectric effects. Water is a dielectric material. Stone is not. Perhaps by heating water in a fault something might happen but 250 watts (from 80km overhead) is not likely to be able to do that even if it were possible for ELF radiation to do so (it's not). Also, the GRL paper indicates good success in controlling the azimuth of the ELF radiation, nothing about directing it to a particular location. Directional is nice for communications, not so much for choosing a spot to cause an earthquake.

You mentioned, before editing, a 30dB increase. Are you saying that HAARP can produce ELF radiation greater than its output of HF radiation? ELF radiation at 3.6 billion watts? That is what a 30dB increase of 3.6Mw would be. Can you provide a source for that? Everything I've seen indicates that the ionospheric production of ELF radiation is a very inefficient process.
edit on 2/16/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 03:58 AM
reply to post by Phage

Welcome back Phage!

I so remember you chewing my butt off once for thinking that ELF waves could induce earthquakes. I am so pleased to hear from you as I could not find that particular post - obviously - as it was such a long time ago.

Please do continue in the discussion as I would love to settle this one finally as far as earthquakes are concerned.

posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 05:07 AM
reply to post by Phage
I had to edit my reply because I wanted to figure out how to upload graphs to support my post.

When it comes to power, then after upgrade in March 2006, HAARP has got 180 crossed dipole antennas, 3.6 MW power (at its source), that is ~2 GW effective radiated HF power (2.8-10 MHz) (lightning has ~20 GW isotropic ERP).

The 30db, was in relation to nonlinear magnetosphereic amplification and I took it away as for now.

Forgot to tell you that sources was not linked to because I have them on my HD and I have no remembrance of where I got them all.

edit on 16/2/2011 by Roald because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 07:32 PM
I have no where near the knowledge of most of the posters on this thread (my volcabulary has doubled just reading the last few entries), but Phage's comment about heating up the water whithin a fault got me thinking. (sometimes a dangerous thing

Perhaps it is because I recently watched Gasland, so I want to blame everything on fracking....but here goes:

What IF, the act of fracking not only causes micro quakes and the toxic fracking sollution to permeate into the ground water, but also into existing faults? I know millions of gallons of water are used in one well and there are probably hundreds of thousands of these wells across the US. My understanding is that only half of the water used is retrieved, so the rest is left below the surface. Do the math; that's a lot of water.

Now, take into consideration the possibility of HARP heating up or 'exciting' that water. You also have to think of the 500+ chemicals in the 'water' used in the fracking process. I can't remember which chemical it was that caused it, but in the movie Gasland they had one water analysis that showed the conductivity of the fracking water was literally off the chart...if my memory is correct it was 32,000 something.

I am admittedly way out of my 'zone' here and am simply hypothesizing this. Would that be possilbe? Have any of you considered this?
edit on 16-2-2011 by westcoast because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 08:07 PM
Energy blasted upward from an ionospheric heater is not much compared to the total in the ionosphere, but HAARP documents and documents from our own EISCAT admit that thousandfold-greater amounts of energy can be released in the ionosphere than injected, so let's cut the crap.

Have anyone heard about or studied: "Electromagnetic control of earthquake dynamics", "Discharge of Tectonic Stresses in the Earth Crust by High-power Electric" or "Electrical Properties of Rocks"?

Putterman, if you have heard about it, connect it with another interesting field, "pre-earthquake signals".

posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 09:00 PM


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