14yr Old Rape Victim Beaten to Death by Islamic Court

Originally posted by CleanSlate
I would like to think that we live in a world with a universal common sense shared by all.

Get ready for the let down.

Originally posted by CleanSlate
It is a true pity that our species is separated by fairy tales and obsessive compulsive rituals used to control the masses with guilt and fear.

Here is the problem, though I doubt you really want to know, no slight on you, just sayin'.

A lot of the horribly violent leanings of the religions in question actually serve a purpose. That brutal blood thirsty intolerance of "others" and "them," thats pure natural selection speaking. Group competition at a meme level, rather than a gene level. (Although the Jews play the game at the gene level as well)

Why they have such widespread appeal? Because they make sense to us at that primitive, competitive, brutal level. Personally, looking at nature, without wishful thinking about global enlightenment, I dont see a way around group competition. What CAN be dispensed with, are "laws" that made good natural sense to a small band of fiercely warlike people under extreme pressure from other small bands of fiercely warlike people, when today those "laws" are totally unnecessary, and senseless in the modern world.

The problem is that the rational people irrationally do not make an effort to understand religion, they just arrogantly and foolishly dismiss it as superstition, when you need to understand it to deal with it. And the religious rightfully are offended by the blanket dismissal of something they instinctively understand to be of great value, even if their faithful little brains are incapable of analyzing what it is that makes it valuable, because that would require an objectivity they are not allowed to possess.

According to Sharia Law, something that was already discussed her; there must be very firm evidence to allow an adulteress to be lashed.

Also according to Sharia law the accused just has to declare that they are innocent and then they wont be lashed,. Though they have to swear that the are innocent.

People here don’t want to hear that a Muslim country has common sense and don’t anymore want to follow archaic and pre-modern laws.

I mean here in America they just sentenced a 11 year old child to life imprison.
Is that logical?

Its only been since 2005 that the Supreme Court banned the execution of juveniles in America.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Excellent post. However, in my experience, when somebody who's ancestors from millenia ago all the way down to themselves have been indoctrinated in such a way, it is nigh on impossible to reason with them. It usually takes an exceptional mind or a brutal experience for somebody to wake up a walk away from these kind of things!

reply to post by inforeal


You'd think so wouldn't you? Like I posted earlier, it is customary in Sharia law that enough evidence has been garnerned, if a man and a woman who are not married are alone together in a house, to accuse and convict them of adultery, regardless of their pleas. that is not borne out of the Qur'an but still customary in sharia law. It has happened many times, with peple being stoned to death over it. Sound like common sense to you?

You know what's funny? In that culture, the men are supposed to hold the power, but it's the woman who was held responsible. All the power, none of the responsibility...yeah, sounds about right for your typically hardcore patriarchal society.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

14yr Old Rape Victim Beaten to Death by Islamic Court

www.fortliberty.org

Hena Begum was a fourteen year old girl growing up in the Shariatpur region of Bangladesh until her forty year old cousin decided to rape her.

After she was raped, the rapist and his family then beat her until she was unconscious.

Next, the local Sharia (Islamic) courts ruled that yound Hena should receive 101 lashes for the crime of adultery — for the crime of being a child raped by an adult.

The Muslim clerics took the young girl, who still could not stand on her own, to a public square and

(visit the link for the full news article)

Another fine example of human beings living by laws that were given by God and then systematically destroyed and then manipulated by men for the benefit of a select few of mankind. This is sick, not of God . . . at all, and represents a blasphemy to Gods word. Hell, I know this and am only semi religious; I guess these individuals must talk to a different God than I have ever contemplated or know. The God I know would burn them for eternity for their crimes and that would be a very polite sentence in my book.


I had to add that whether this story is true or sci-fi, frankly . . . I believe this has to be sci-horror and not reality . . .these folks would have to be considered a menace and danger to the human race and subject to immediate disposal. Oh, and the child-molester that raped her should be castrated, put through a gender changing operation and then raped repeatedly in prison for 25 years before being forced to slide down a 20 foot razor blade . . . into a pool of rubbing alcohol. Just my 3,000 cents.

Originally posted by AmatuerSkyWatcher
What? The topic and argument is about Islam, it's failings and the hypocrisy there in, as far as I am aware?

Uh no.
The topic is about this village murdering a teenage girl under a form of religious law that is deemed illegal.

You need to start a NEW topic to discuss Islams hypocrisy and failings.
That sounds like a subjective point of view.

- Lee

Originally posted by Byteman
reply to post by lee anoma

 

I like you how you took my statement out of context to try and prove me wrong, while at the same time proved my point for me.

These Muslims felt comfortable pulling this crap because........
ISLAM IS THE BIGGEST RELIGION IN BANGLADESH.

Your point was that Islam is the biggest religion in the area?
Talk about stating the obvious.

However comfortable they may have felt is something you or I won't know, but the fact is, they were arrested and the practice is illegal.

I think that speaks volumes.

- Lee

reply to post by lee anoma


Fair enough, I concede you are right. my apologies.

Originally posted by nightbringr
I dont think we can read too much into the arrests until we know how they are dealt with.

There were plenty of people calling for the perpetrators arrest and how they got away with this murder, now that they have been arrested, the goal post is moved to "punishment".

Sharia law is nothing more than insecure men wanting to keep their women on a tight leash, and those advocating its use should feel the sting of the whip they would so handily use against their own wives, daughters and others.

I agree.
I'm glad they made it illegal.

I have to wonder how the apologists here treat their wives and daughters? To not see how terribly wrong this is is so beyond my comprehension.

I have to wonder at the mental state of someone who blames an entire race, and religion on the actions of one village. Consequently those actions were illegal and lead to an arrest.

I also call into question your judgments on who or what is an "apologist".
Carefully reading my post would show my feelings on the matter.

Carefully reading seems to be the main problem in this thread.

I think the problem is the rush to anger when it comes to Muslims, Jews, Liberals, Conservatives or whatever enemy we have up for the week. This thread has called for the area to be bombed, the race wiped out, and every there dead because they assumed that the preps were congratulated for their actions and not arrested.

- Lee

Originally posted by porschedrifter
Speaking of Countries that need to be bombed...

Right on!

Whatever girl that hasn't been raped and beaten to death, let's just blow up!
Worked for Iraq.

- Lee

reply to post by AmatuerSkyWatcher


I don’t have any statistics about that. I am a Muslim and spent a lot of time in a Muslim community. We didn’t stone anyone and wouldn’t.

Nor did the woman walk around with curtains on their faces

This pre-modern fundamentalist Islam I hope will go away in time.

But it will take a long time because human beings are pretty screwed up in the first place.

Didn’t you folks already know that?

That’s why religion was invented!

Thank you for your reply. I do want to know. I appreciate your intelligent insight and your ability to understand the situation from different angles. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with the clearness of expression.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Thank you for your reply. I do want to know. I appreciate your intelligent insight and your ability to understand the situation from different angles. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with the clearness of expression.

Response to h_jordan

Originally posted by h_jordan
well my friend,

this one:
[24:4] Those who accuse married women of adultery, then fail to produce four witnesses, you shall whip them eighty lashes, and do not accept any testimony from them; they are wicked.

in order to accuse a couple of adultery you need four witnesses, they must see the male's penis into the female's vagaina, (porn vids aside) how often do you see that in life??!, it isn't enough to see them naked, not enough to see them #ing, you need to see his penis into her vagaina, four people should see it not only one, very hard conditions.

Doesn't qualify ... 14yr old not married, merely promised ... adulterer/male adult is married to his former victim (age 13) by order of the court.

Besides, she was ordered 101 lashes ... What is that about?
when i first read it, the infamous phrase "and one to grow on" crossed my mind ... sure would like to understand the emphasis of the 1 extra, which she never survived to endure.

now this one:

24:2] The adulteress and the adulterer you shall whip each of them a hundred lashes. Do not be swayed by pity from carrying out GOD's law, if you truly believe in GOD and the Last Day. And let a group of believers witness their penalty

in case you proved the adultery then the islamic court should make the decision of either kill both (Married) (search the whole Quran and you will not find the Killing punishment, it was removed form Quran by Mohammad or his companions, scholars refer to Hadith instead of Quran here which is also wrong in Islam - ah you know the goat story

it is very funny, i don't believe it myself), or wipe them (Unmarried).

these were quoted by the previous poster you claim misunderstood.
again, why wasn't the adulterer punished equally and immediately? even you posted the commandment ... "you shall whip each of them a hundred lashes." --> am i missing something here?

this one:

[24:3] The adulterer will end up marrying an adulteress or an idol worshiper, and the adulteress will end up marrying an adulterer or an idol worshiper. This is prohibited for the believers.

hahahahaha, this adulterer ALREADY did that with his current wife when she was merely 13 ... seems he's had some practice.

it does not mean that the court or any one should force adulterers to marry each other, it means something like: bad guys attract each other, an adulterer will end up marrying and adulterer because they are alike, they will attract each other.

so, are you saying his wife (at 13 or 14) actually had a choice?
what you indicate is that she could have refused him but would eventually marry AN adulterer sometime in her life. ~~ I don't believe that for a NY minute.

adultery is a sin in Islam that's why you have punishments for adulterers, but what we have here is very different case, the poor little kid was raped, she is not considered guilty in Sharia Law, she shouldn't be punished, in these cases culture gets mixed up with religion, for example, the court would ask the guy to marry the girl, why? culturally the girl (eventhough not guilty) is considered a shame for her family she is not virigin and she is not married, no other guy in the that culture would marry her, thats why they suggest that the guy who raped her must marry her, sometimes they force him to do, this is not Islam, this is culture.

ok, a culture built around, ruled by and manipulated within the confounds of Islamic practices, some extreme, some not. In many dictionaries, this type of activity is referred to as a cult.

all organized religions are complex, that is how they maintain control, whereas spirituality is natural, never forced, seldom rigorous, occasionally challenging yet always fulfilling ... each day, every encounter (good and bad) leads to a learning experience which hopefully encourages each individual to learn more about themselves within their spirituality, their dimensional boundaries and their willingness or lack thereof to be a conqueror of those boundaries.
yes, we are magnificently complex creatures indeed

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Actually there is a theory called spiral dynamics that explains these phenomena somewhat scientifically and logically. It’s complex but not nuclear physics

www.spiraldynamics.org...

I feel I have to make one thing clear. What happens in Pakistan and Bangladesh is the ultimate deviation from Islam. It's the culture and government there not the religion as evidenced by their outrageous blasphemy laws. Very rarely would you find this in the middle east let alone sanctioned by a government, well, maybe Saudi Arabia but they are the elephant in the room.

Originally posted by PETROLCOIN I am simply pointing out the obvious FACT that Islam carries out more of this type of insanity than any other religion and culture does.

BS. In terms of total victims of torture and war throughout history, Christianity is the hands down winner.

Originally posted by AmatuerSkyWatcher
reply to post by lee anoma

 

Fair enough, I concede you are right. my apologies.

No need to apologize.
If you do feel that strongly about the subject though, you really should start a thread on the matter.

I know there are plenty of people that make me want to cringe when I hear the word Islam, simply because of how they practice it, and the misogynistic words coming from their mouths. While I personally don't subscribe to any one religion, I do see how it can work for some people provided that they try to follow the better parts.

There are people that use the Christian Bible to justify slavery, the subjection of women, and plural marriage but that doesn't mean that this is the notion held by the majority of Christians. I say we should temper our feelings on this particular case and try not to lash out in hatred at other innocents.

I hope that the teen who died has found justice or peace, from either side of the windows of existence.

I hope we all do.

Peace,

- Lee

Originally posted by AmatuerSkyWatcher

However, in my experience, when somebody who's ancestors from millenia ago all the way down to themselves have been indoctrinated in such a way, it is nigh on impossible to reason with them.

It is nigh on impossible to reason with the majority of people. Human beings arent, for the most part, rational. A small percentage are. The majority are not. They are instinctive and emotional. In the past, leaders did not try to reason with the mass of their people. They made humanized Gods, like really scary parents who were to be obeyed out of love and fear. They used instinct, and emotion to communicate with instinctual and emotional beings. They were wise.

What went wrong was writing. When the rational people in the tribe could look at what was going on, actual circumstances, and determine a course of action, and then tell the people "the god(s) decreed it" it was all good. Because in line with evolution, the religion and the requirements were flexible, they could evolve as the needs of the group evolved. As the circumstances evolved. Then we developed writing.

Writing locked religion down. It hasnt been allowed to evolve as it should have for over 2000 years in some cases, (the old Testament.) Religion was not meant to be dead. It was meant to be an ongoing discussion between a people and God (what is, nature, everything) about how best to survive and thrive. And, on Earth, survival does include winners and losers. Its a zero sum game.

Which is why I said I dont really see a way around that competitive aspect. Its something that needs to be dealt with, accepted, because its a simple fact that humans are in competition with one another. For mates, jobs, cars, educations, land, resources, everything. Pretending we arent, that we are all going to hold hands in some new world order is a tad silly. There is no species on Earth doing that, least of all the leaders who are proposing it. Plato came up with a method to minimize the amount of violence needed, but even he, perhaps the most brilliant human who has ever lived, could not come up with a way to dispense with it.

reply to post by frozenspark

try any one of these: www.abovetopsecret.com...