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Open challenge to debunkers!

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posted on Feb, 6 2011 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by planetzog
 


I don't disagree.

BUT, apprently you haven't been following this epic thread about the videos, where time and time again some very solid evidence that shows a very good possibility of a HOAX had been provided by those who know what they are talking about.

The OP has been involved in said thread and knows this. Of course he will say that the evidence sucks and will continue to believe what he wants.

The point is, it's unnecessary to call out the debunkers in a separate thread. The evidence he seeks has all been made available.

The onus is now on the believers.




posted on Feb, 6 2011 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by cripmeister

Originally posted by planetzog
The fact is several people saw the Jerusalem UFO and took videos of it.


Do you haveany evidence of this?


If someone who is an expert in the field of video and CGI proves its a hoax with evidence then I will accept it is a hoax.


Already been done.


When you claim the videos are a hoax then you must back it up with evidence.


Already been done.

You're simply not paying attention.


No you're not paying attention and creating an argument for sake of arguing because I disagreed with your friend.

Are you saying its a hoax because your friend did? I get the impression this is what sometimes happens on this forum.

It is known that there are at least 4 videos of the incident believed to be taken by different people. Unless you can prove otherwise.

Who proved the videos to be hoax? Where is the evidence? What are their qualifications and credentials?



posted on Feb, 6 2011 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by planetzog
Are you saying its a hoax because your friend did?


No, I'm saying it's a [HOAX!] based on the evidence found here.



posted on Feb, 6 2011 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by planetzog

Who proved the videos to be hoax? Where is the evidence? What are their qualifications and credentials?



If you have nothing to do today then you should pour yourself some java and read through all 120 pages of the thread that has been referenced.

Then feel free to make a contribution to that thread.


edit on 6-2-2011 by PhotonEffect because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2011 @ 02:00 PM
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I've never seen a video that couldnt be faked by the right crew of people so I have no opinions on video.. But as to UFO's or AVC's I have seen something with multiple people in the sky above San Jose CA 2years ago that was either a AVC or our Military is at least a century ahead of what they're releasing to the public...



posted on Feb, 6 2011 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by PhotonEffect
reply to post by planetzog
 


I don't disagree.

BUT, apprently you haven't been following this epic thread about the videos, where time and time again some very solid evidence that shows a very good possibility of a HOAX had been provided by those who know what they are talking about.

The OP has been involved in said thread and knows this. Of course he will say that the evidence sucks and will continue to believe what he wants.

The point is, it's unnecessary to call out the debunkers in a separate thread. The evidence he seeks has all been made available.

The onus is now on the believers.


No, the onus is on the debunkers! The people who allegedly took the videos claim they are real.

I do not agree that the evidence is very solid. In fact, you say its a 'very good possibility of a HOAX'. A very good possibility is NOT the same as definite like many claim. But you still say its a hoax.

The OP asked for someone to recreate this video which, according to the debunkers is very cheap and simple to do.

There are some people on this forum who claim to know everything about videos, CGI and whatever else and produce their opinions as fact and proof.



posted on Feb, 6 2011 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by cripmeister

Originally posted by planetzog
Are you saying its a hoax because your friend did?


No, I'm saying it's a [HOAX!] based on the evidence found here.


Can you point out to me where you said it was a hoax and why?



posted on Feb, 6 2011 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by planetzog


The people who allegedly took the videos claim they are real.




Really?? When did they come forward? We've been trying to track them down for days!

BTW one of the videos has already proven to be a HOAX by the person who did the HOAXING.

You're not keeping up



posted on Feb, 6 2011 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by PhotonEffect

Originally posted by planetzog


The people who allegedly took the videos claim they are real.




Really?? When did they come forward? We've been trying to track them down for days!

BTW one of the videos has already proven to be a HOAX by the person who did the HOAXING.

You're not keeping up


Sorry who is we when you say you have tried to track them down?

Is this what you do with your life, tracking down people to prove they are a hoax? If so, what did you actually do to track them down?

So because one video is a hoax does that mean the others are as well?



posted on Feb, 6 2011 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by planetzog

Sorry who is we when you say you have tried to track them down?

Is this what you do with your life, tracking down people to prove they are a hoax? If so, what did you actually do to track them down?

So because one video is a hoax does that mean the others are as well?


Listen man- I'm really not trying to argue with you. You clearly have not been following the on going thread so you're a bit ignorant as to what's been happening. And I don't mean that in a bad way, promise.

When I say "we" I mean the community- the collective- and not only on ATS but elsewhere who have been following this case since day one. Waiting to hear or see if any of the several people who filmed this would come forward and defend this, or at least give a more in depth account of what they saw.

Guess what, nothing, not here, not on the news, not even on their damn youtube accounts.... Odd no? Considering all the press this has gotten now.

Of course had you been following the other main thread you'd know this.

For the record I think for certain that these are all part of coordinated HOAX.



posted on Feb, 6 2011 @ 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by PhotonEffect

Originally posted by planetzog

Sorry who is we when you say you have tried to track them down?

Is this what you do with your life, tracking down people to prove they are a hoax? If so, what did you actually do to track them down?

So because one video is a hoax does that mean the others are as well?


Listen man- I'm really not trying to argue with you. You clearly have not been following the on going thread so you're a bit ignorant as to what's been happening. And I don't mean that in a bad way, promise.

When I say "we" I mean the community- the collective- and not only on ATS but elsewhere who have been following this case since day one. Waiting to hear or see if any of the several people who filmed this would come forward and defend this, or at least give a more in depth account of what they saw.

Guess what, nothing, not here, not on the news, not even on their damn youtube accounts.... Odd no? Considering all the press this has gotten now.

Of course had you been following the other main thread you'd know this.

For the record I think for certain that these are all part of coordinated HOAX.


I respect your opinion and we'll have to agree to disagree.


And I did follow the thread. I'm unhappy there are some here who claim to know everything and say it's 100% hoax with little or no evidence. They claim to be experts and are clearly not. If they were experts they would recreated the video and close this subject once and for all.



posted on Feb, 6 2011 @ 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by planetzog

Originally posted by cripmeister

Originally posted by planetzog
Are you saying its a hoax because your friend did?


No, I'm saying it's a [HOAX!] based on the evidence found here.


Can you point out to me where you said it was a hoax and why?



Sure, right here.



posted on Feb, 6 2011 @ 02:43 PM
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I don't agree with the motives of this request at all. If anything we should be discouraging the use of cgi to replicate this type of hoax - before you know it we'll have another video going viral created to prove a hoax adding a massive amount of discredit to the topic of ufology in the mainstream - which let's face it was something we all learnt when watching the worst video (of the 4) being given airtime.

The Jerusalem videos are hoax, eloquently proven without the need to replicate videos ourselves .. the evidence is in the threads - no agenda just simple cgi facts;
You only really need to check out one post to see this demonstrated but there are more examples - www.abovetopsecret.com...

This also follows up the above post by gift0fpr0phecy
www.abovetopsecret.com...

When one uses artificial camera shake you can fill in the gaps created with a mirror effect - this artifact is present in video 1 and 4 thereby proving without a doubt that the videos were hoaxed. No-one in their right mind would add camera shake to real ufo video footage to improve it

edit on 6-2-2011 by digitalf because: extra link



posted on Feb, 6 2011 @ 02:47 PM
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reply to post by planetzog
 


Isnt that the truth!



posted on Feb, 6 2011 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by planetzog

Is this what you do with your life, tracking down people to prove they are a hoax?


This is a malicious, groundless attack by discrediting and ridicule, and it is extremely distasteful.

Beside that you seem to be arguing against logic so strongly and without ground that I am beginning to become concerned about your mental health. Just some advice planetzog, but maybe its time for you to step back for some objective self assessment.



posted on Feb, 6 2011 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by simples
i think its very fair from the OP to ask this


No it's not
No matter what anyone produced it would not be acceptable to him.



what will it take for people to accept a UFO video as real?


Show us the original film... and be available for interview to tell us about it



you get a single video with an object and all you get back is "FAKE need more witnesses"
so you get two videos of an object and they scream "FAKE"
then you get three videos and its in the MSM so what is it going to take? a million witnesses and countless videos?


Well the one they put on MSM was the obvious hoax still photo... so why would that help the situation?

The thing you guys fail to understand is that some of us don't just fall for any old crap. I am not a debunker or skeptic, but sometimes fake is fake and crap still stinks



posted on Feb, 6 2011 @ 02:55 PM
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What in the hell is going on,i thought this topic went to the trash hoax bin 5 times already by 5 diffrent posters,my gosh.
This hoax topic is giving me so much GUHH !



posted on Feb, 6 2011 @ 02:56 PM
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I am not a believer or disbeliever but surely everyone MUST ask the questions. What are the names of the filmers? From which location were they filmed from? What was the equipment used to film the sequences? What was the date and time of the filming? All of these questions NEED to be answered before one can ultimately prove they are hoaxes or not. To the believers I say this. The videos that you are so vehemently defending could have been made months ago just that they appeared without the said answers to the questions above even that they may be second, third or even tenth generation copies. Lets say the people that made these films offered them up without said evidence so it is up to them to prove thier authenticity. You know and I know that with enough equipment you can make people believe dinosaurs still walk the earth. The onus of proof is still with the filmers.



posted on Feb, 6 2011 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by ignorant_ape
believers of this ilk don't want debate or counterpoint - all they are attempting to do is waste peoples time setting " challenges " that they will AUTOMATICALLY reject


This is one time I agree with you 100%



But seriously... why is there another thread on this?



posted on Feb, 6 2011 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by dainoyfb

Originally posted by planetzog

Is this what you do with your life, tracking down people to prove they are a hoax?


This is a malicious, groundless attack by discrediting and ridicule, and it is extremely distasteful.

Beside that you seem to be arguing against logic so strongly and without ground that I am beginning to become concerned about your mental health. Just some advice planetzog, but maybe its time for you to step back for some objective self assessment.


How is it a groundless attack by discrediting and ridicule?

You calling me mentally ill or being concerned for my mental health is a groundless attack by discrediting and ridicule!

I'm not arguing against logic because I dont know if the video is fake or real. But you are against logic because you are claiming the videos are hoax without providing any evidence and you believe the people who call it hoax and they cannot provide the evidence. So I ask you this, can you recreate the video and prove its a hoax? Or are you here for something else?



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