WOW, many folks are waking up spiritually ......

Originally posted by dominicus

It is something that has to be experienced to be known ...anything outside of that is intellectualizing conceptualizing using the realm of thought which automatically takes us out of the reality of that experienced truth.....

this Truth is not like a remembered phone number ..which is relative to you and your associations to that number. This truth is both objective ad subjective at the same time, non-relative, alive, permeates everything, is pure unadulterated intelligence and Love ....

How do you explain a permanent epiphany? You can't because conceptualizing it intellectually brings that permanence into the realm of assumptions/speculations/subjectivity/bias ......but the permanence of the Epiphany is still there and is no relative nor has nothing to do with: (assumptions/speculations/subjectivity/bias)

Things that are subjectively experienced and relative only to me are not objective truths. Calling such experiences "truth" is empty, and it places any delusion on the same plane of validity as any valid realization. That which cannot be demonstratedt as "truth" to another individual cannot even be defined as to exist, let alone labeled as "truth".

I think the 'Truth' referred to by some people is more a gut feeling that you may not have consciously realized yet. At first you feel it nagging at you every now and then. Then, after a while, this feeling becomes more and more prevelant. Then you just start looking for answers. I don't know what I'm usually looking for, but I have a need to keep searching. (EDIT: You in this case is a generic term; not pointing to anyone specific).

That's why I think some people get so angry. It makes them uncomfortable. If you've convinced yourself God doesn't exist, starting to realize you may be wrong can be very scary. Especially if you've used this viewpoint to condone a not so positive lifestyle. I know, because at one point I was leaning toward atheism.

Also, if you are a devout religious person and someone says that what you've been taught is probably mostly twisted versions of some simpler truth, then you will become defensive and angry as well.

A paradigm shift is very hard for most people, especially when it is forced.

For me, some things just ring true, but I don't have any idea of a universal truth or anything. I just know some things feel true and others don't. I just start there and work forward.

I will say this: Since I've accepted that much of what I was taught was not 100% correct or just completely wrong, I've been able to see things with a clearer, more open view. I can't say I've ever had a confirmed spiritual or supernatural experience, but I accept that it may be possible and don't condemn those who claim they have. I also accept it's possible there is nothing on the other side. Time will tell so I have no reason to be angry.

- Dredge

we have descended down a ladder and in 2012 we are about to start ascending that ladder.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer

Things that are subjectively experienced and relative only to me are not objective truths.

well then I'll put it in better terms..... the experience of this Truth is neither subjective nor objective .....and yet both at the same time. Its the destruction of your own bias, of the world's mental programming ...its absolute freedom on oh so many levels

Calling such experiences "truth" is empty, and it places any delusion on the same plane of validity as any valid realization.

And yet you experience reality directly in your own way ...which then in turn I can take your above statement, and flip around on you and say that the way that you experience everyday reality is empty and invalid

That which cannot be demonstratedt as "truth" to another individual cannot even be defined as to exist, let alone labeled as "truth".

whats being demonstrated is that all types of folks in their own time, are awakening to this truth and their mental programming and subjective bias bubbles are being popped. If it was just me and I wasn't able to verify it in books that were written by others that have gone through this, and wasn't seeing all types of folks who once thought like you and now have come to me to discuss these things because they are now to experiencing this .....well then I would have then just brushed it off as my own personal delusion ...but thats just not the case .....

your above statement simply confines the unconfinable and unlimited Truth to the conceptual shackles of a confined and limited concept/idea created by the limited and confined faculties of logic and reason. (and yet we can use logic and reason to conclude that logic and reason are limited)

YEt there seems to be an unused faculty/organ within all people that is able to comprehend and experience that which is beyond all limits that thus far the status quo is used to operating in. It is this exact faculty/organ that is starting to demonstratably become active.

Just look at the posts on this thread alone!!!! People remember the year, month, day when their awakenings started.... Its being demonstrated on this board.....

reply to post by dominicus


true ,you have got to be fast asleep to not think any thing is going on lol.

i think there is also a lot of people who are resisting this change and living in denial.

Originally posted by dominicus
well then I'll put it in better terms..... the experience of this Truth is neither subjective nor objective .....and yet both at the same time. Its the destruction of your own bias, of the world's mental programming ...its absolute freedom on oh so many levels

You're not describing "truth" then. You could slaughter your sacred cows until there's none left and you are totally free of old ways of thinking - but still not be anywhere close to "truth".

And yet you experience reality directly in your own way ...which then in turn I can take your above statement, and flip around on you and say that the way that you experience everyday reality is empty and invalid

You could say it but you're not addressing the issue. Subjective experience can not necessarily be interpreted as truth, nor can it be demonstrated as such to others.

your above statement simply confines the unconfinable and unlimited Truth to the conceptual shackles of a confined and limited concept/idea created by the limited and confined faculties of logic and reason. (and yet we can use logic and reason to conclude that logic and reason are limited)

We have demonstrable methods of arriving at what we all agree to be the truth. The best I can discern from your claims, you're simply relabeling "truth" that which is simply a change in the ways of one's thinking. Changing old habits - even if for perfectly good reasons - is not "truth". It's change.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


we are all on a earth rotating around the sun.... thats TRUTH

Originally posted by AdamJagger1111
we have descended down a ladder and in 2012 we are about to start ascending that ladder.

People have already began to ascend that ladder, I mostly agree with this statement except when you use the 2012 year as an absolute. I am really starting to get sick of hearing that #.

reply to post by TheSparrowSings


yeh i could be wrong but i know it is around that date 2012 - early 2013 when the full blown ascension happens.

it like energy is coming to earth in doses and soon a whole heap of it is gonna slam into the earth and transform us inside out.... or a wave in time is gonna pass through earth and we will be swept up into ascension.

I dont know for certain how it will happen I just know it will and is happening right now!

I dont know for certain how it will happen I just know it will and is happening right now!

Originally posted by AdamJagger1111
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

we are all on a earth rotating around the sun.... thats TRUTH

We already knew that.

But here's what you claimed to know:

the universal TRUTH of who we are ,why we are here and were we are headed within the next few years

reply to post by traditionaldrummer

You're not describing "truth" then. You could slaughter your sacred cows until there's none left and you are totally free of old ways of thinking - but still not be anywhere close to "truth".

ok sure ......however you want to see it ....

You could say it but you're not addressing the issue. Subjective experience can not necessarily be interpreted as truth, nor can it be demonstrated as such to others.

And yet you do not doubt nor discredit that there is such a thing as subjective experience. I just showed you how this whole thread has a bunch of folks coming out of the woodworks describing a shift or the beginnings of an awakening..... let alone the half dozen U2u's I've gotten.

this whole discussion here that I'm having with you is the exact same discussion I would have with some atheist friends for years about subjectivity, objectivity, truth, science, God, spirituality ...all of which was in the realm of intellectual conceptualizing....

and now some of these atheist friends have come to me saying that they have experience and are experiencing something better that is completely beyond the realm of mind/thought/intellect/logic/reason and that it is Awesome...... That is Truth ...that which is beyond conceptualizing .....it is something that stands on its own ...science is just barely scratching he surface with quantum fields and yet people for thousands of years have experienced and known this.....

We have demonstrable methods of arriving at what we all agree to be the truth. The best I can discern from your claims, you're simply relabeling "truth" that which is simply a change in the ways of one's thinking.

this Truth has nothing to do with relabeling or a change in one's thinking. It has everything to do with seeing that thinking, thoughts, the mind ...who you think you are is not who you are.

Just like the sky is what it is regardless of what anyone thinks or says about it, it is without labels and devoid of thought, and has been that way even before humans were here.

So too the truth I'm talking about is something that is Here and stands on its own regardless whether or not someone is experiencing it or not

Changing old habits - even if for perfectly good reasons - is not "truth". It's change.

of course thats obvious ...but for Truth to be known and experienced ...many times requires a change and shift in One's fabled bias bubble. Other times this Truth just shows itself in a flash and then afterwards there is a change in old habits to make the environment applicable for more truth to be seen and unobscured...

Another related thought I have been having. If the human body responds and reacts to the energy produced in wave patterns... and the earths magnetosphere is currently weakened, more solar wind is breaking through our natural barrier and being absorbed into the atmosphere. Essentially charging the air around us....

Is humanity being effected by this? There seems to have been a collective rise in anger/frustration and enlightenment. Could the whole ascension be connected to the cycles of the sun?

reply to post by TheSparrowSings


yeh mate i feel that it will leave us exposed to severe energys that will transform our atoms or cells.

reply to post by TheSparrowSings


and the sun and planets are like a gigantic cosmic clockwork that has cycles and every thing happens at the right times.

and we are at the end of all these cycles when every thing lines up and everything locks into place lol

Originally posted by dominicus
and now some of these atheist friends have come to me saying that they have experience and are experiencing something better that is completely beyond the realm of mind/thought/intellect/logic/reason and that it is Awesome...... That is Truth ...that which is beyond conceptualizing .....it is something that stands on its own ...science is just barely scratching he surface with quantum fields and yet people for thousands of years have experienced and known this.....

Firstly, alarm bells go off when you mix in "quantum fields" with.. well... anything

Secondly, as I said before, if an atheist has a transcendental experience or huge epiphany, so what? It's just that. If they then choose to explain their experience through an esoteric, mystical realm of "spirituality" it's not truth, but an egregious misinterpretation of a common human condition.

this Truth has nothing to do with relabeling or a change in one's thinking. It has everything to do with seeing that thinking, thoughts, the mind ...who you think you are is not who you are.

That is a change in one's thinking

but for Truth to be known and experienced ...many times requires a change and shift in One's fabled bias bubble. Other times this Truth just shows itself in a flash and then afterwards there is a change in old habits to make the environment applicable for more truth to be seen and unobscured...

We seem to be at an impasse. You continue to call "truth" that which is simply a change in one's thinking and/or behavior (which, by the way, may not deal with any kind of truth whatsoever).

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


your still fast asleep you will never understand untill you start waking up.