To all the people who want to ban guns.

He who would trade liberty for security, deserves neither - Benjamin Franklin.

Criminals will find a way to get guns, whether they are legal or not. And if they can't get guns they will resort to making homemade weapons such as small bombs, etc. It's ridiculous to claim that stricter LAWS will reduce gun related crimes when people break laws to commit any crime.

Our government finances drug fronts, assists cartels, and lets the FDA allow millions of people to be addicted to "legal" drugs. Then when people resort to committing crimes with guns to get drugs or drug money, they go out and want get tough on the guns. Our problem with the American people is a drug problem.

Very seldom is there a psycho who goes out and shoots up a crowd because he is crazy, but it does get all the publicity. Do we really think this kid wouldn't have done the same thing if he couldn't have gotten a gun legally? Seriously, I wonder about people sometimes.

For crying out loud, guns deliver more harm than good. The only issue surrounding guns in the US revolve around your constitutional right to bear arms - no more. A right to affordable and equal health care would serve a better purpose of democratic rights. The right to bear arms is a fallacy born out of a 'frontier land' attitude.

There are plenty of countries in the world that do without personal weaponry and all are on par, or better, in regard to personal safety than the US.

Put your water pistols down and concentrate on more important individual freedoms.

reply to post by Rocky Black


Hello,

Good post and some interesting concepts.

I am reading a book at the moment that shows how much of a fallacy "statistics" are, especially crime. The book centers on the UK so it may be a bit different in the US and I would appreciate your opinion on that.

The problem with statistics is that unless you can get them in their raw format then they can often be skewed this way or that.

In the UK we had an issue with knife crime but the public has no access to detailed criminal incident data and so we have to rely on our officials. Politicians love to tweak statistics regarding crime as it is such a politically contentious issue.

Back to the UK and knife crime then the government said that violent crime was dropping but in 2008/9 that became apparently untrue. Crimes were under-reported and "violent" injuries were downgraded. This meant that "statistically" there were less violent crimes but in fact there was not.

I am sure that you can appreciate that politicians twist statistics and I have no idea where you got yours from, however.

There are three types of lies in the world, PR, politics and statistics

Reading: The Silent State - Heather Brooke

Originally posted by LarryLove
Put your water pistols down and concentrate on more important individual freedoms.

There is no MORE IMPORTANT freedom. Government is by it's very nature repressive if not actually evil. Bureaucracy always tends to gather power unto itself in the process stealing it from the people. The second amendment is our "ultimate veto", our vote of last resort. Personal defense against criminals is just a bonus.

reply to post by sonofliberty1776


Wrong on the very basic level of personal freedom. If more Americans would open their eyes beyond their continental shores, then there would be hope.

Originally posted by jeremiah8401
reply to post by purplemer

 

If you're not an American then you have no right to talk about American laws so just be quiet

Let me understand you... As an american citizen posting on international forum? I have no right to comment? I have as much right to comment as you do. Maybe you should find another website to post on if you have an aversion to different cultural views.. and were exactly was i talking about american laws... i was not.. plz stop noobing yourself

Really as i said before i was not after personal critism about me i was trying to discuss gun ownership..

be a man.. destroy your gun...

kx

Originally posted by jeremiah8401

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
I would guesstimate that 80% of the people in this thread do not understand the Second Amendment, why we have it, and what that right entails.

well I'm part of the other 20%. tried telling purplemer that and he keeps writing back like I'm crazy

Things change... times move on... your not still fighting the indians... it is ok to change the law.. it is ok to 4 your neighbour...

it is the law of atraction... your no safer with a gun....

drop the ego and feel the love....

k

Originally posted by purplemer

Originally posted by jeremiah8401
reply to post by purplemer

 

be a man.. destroy your gun...

kx

Oh please stop being such a hippie

reply to post by LarryLove


Until things are right "at home" looking away from home is useless.

reply to post by Monstret


why am i being a hippy.. because i said destroy a gun... that does not make me a hippy... why do you feel the need to attack me personaly... we are meant to be discusing guns and gun ownership and further why do you use the word hippy like it is a bad word... my friend the is nothing greater than human beings that show compasion and love towards each other. It certainly fairs a bit better than putting holes in each other with guns...

kx

reply to post by purplemer


Okey, Sure spreading love is great but take away guns? becuse some smucks use them to kill others? I dont buy that argument. We still have a huge number of people using knifes, fists, feets, knees, cars, sticks, bats, stones etc etc just to assault and kill other people. The thing is if we ban guns we dont stop people killing eachother. Humans are built to be aggressive. I dont mean that I support killings or any crime but we are an agressive species and we will keep killing and hurt eachother even if we ban guns. Here in Sweden we have Alot of firearms (legally) but we also have alot of illegal firearms and guess where most of the shootings and killings come from? I tell you, illegal firearms. We have a big problem with illegal firearms that comming over the boarders from exemple Russia and the Balkans. In my oppinion I see no problem with owning an Semi auto converted military rifle to use on the range and as a defense weapon (legally ofc).

To those who are of the opinion, US citizens have nothing to fear from their government (yeah right) ... then please EXPLAIN the need for these competing entities.

www.realoathkeepers.org...
oathkeepers.net...
oathkeepers.org...
oathkeepers.ning.com...

if any one of you can adequately explain the need for the above, then we'd agree Americans have nothing to fear.

reply to post by sonofliberty1776


That is an interesting sentiment.

However, it seems to me that most of America's problems have started since the "we are the best" no need to look abroad mentality started.

The problem with not looking outward is that you can miss solutions to your internal problems...pre tested by other nations.

reply to post by FreeQuebec86


I believe medically speaking I can kill with about 15 pounds of pressure. One punch to the throat and they suffocate. 30 pounds of pressure and your neck snaps. Please, killing someone is not a physically difficult thing to do. The hard part is living with the memory and knowledge of what you are capable of. DON"T presume what you don't know. Ask any veteran who's been in real combat which is harder killing someone or living with it. Deranged people like loghner don't have to live with it mentally cause they aren't dealing in reality.

reply to post by peck420
I disagree. I think looking outward, without actually seeing, is causing many of our problems. The socialists, like obummer, say look at the great social programs that these other nations have....we should do the same. However they do not see the logical endings to the programs they want. They don't see other nations actually going bankrupt because they cannot afford these programs.
Why can't you socialists and communists(aka progressives) understand that we do not want the government telling us how to live?

reply to post by sonofliberty1776


First, you might want to read some of my posts about guns before you ASSUME that I am anti-gun.

Second, you identify states that have social programs that fail, yet ignore states that have social programs that are currently doing BETTER than the US.

Why is that?

This seems to be a chronic problem when discussing any topic that involves the US. Always focusing on the negatives.

Why is that?

reply to post by LarryLove


There is no right to "affordable" health care.

Health care is a service, and if you cant afford it, you dont receive it.

The concept isnt that hard to understand, you should try it sometime.

Personal ownership of firearms keeps a government in check.

This is primarily for JohnnyCannuck

YOUR RIGHTS IN CANADA

First and foremost, remember that the US Bill of Rights ends at the US/Canadian border. Canada is an independent and sovereign country; the US constitution and US laws have no force in Canada.

There is no equivalent to the US Second Amendment in Canada. Nor is there an equivalent to the US Fourth and Fifth Amendments; Canadian firearms laws permit warrantless searches and seizures and compulsion to testify against yourself, overriding language to the contrary in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

REMEMBER
There is no Right to Keep and Bear Arms in Canada
Your RKBA rights cease the moment you step foot across the border!

reply to post by peck420

and which nations are indicating 'success rates' again?

we know the UK is not - reports provided previously
we know the AU is not - reports provided previously
we're positive parts of CDN are currently suffering
the swiss? - well that's cause the citizens are armed to the teeth

who'd i leave out?
iran / afghanistan / iraq / israel / palestine - do we really wanna go there?

how about turkey? - msl.rsmjournals.com... - seems they have more problems with shooting themselves rather one another. Much deeper issues, don't ya think? maybe a tad bit more deserving of your attention to 'eliminate' all guns ?

or romania ? - www.gunpolicy.org... - (Last Updated on 22 December 2010) and they've been on a steady decline for a few years.

point is, each country has Their way ... please stop trying to change Our (US) way. It does work for us.

when quoting US stats, could you show some respect to the citizens and separate the 'gang related deaths' by firearm vs 'law-abiding citizen deaths' by firearm ? (good luck finding those stats or reports)

This stat alone (above), wipes all the others away ... problem is, you won't find such a thing.
some call it ~ truth.

Originally posted by peck420
reply to post by sonofliberty1776

 

First, you might want to read some of my posts about guns before you ASSUME that I am anti-gun.

Where did I say you were anti-gun? I don't recall addressing that with you.

Second, you identify states that have social programs that fail, yet ignore states that have social programs that are currently doing BETTER than the US.

Why is that?

I don't see any. What is your definition of "better"? I bet we have differing definitions.