Study: Be Wary of Space Visitors

Originally posted by MonteroReal

Originally posted by PoorFool

Originally posted by guohua
Are you talking about the Greys?
The short Bald, Ugly Big Eyed did I say short,,,,,, long armed and skinny little guys or gals?
No real mouth or ears or nose to speck of, do they even have a belly button?
Personally, I think their clones of a race that is dying.
Could that be the reason for the abductions, the probings and possibly the removal of Ovaries, Sperm and implants?

Yeah, and the Reptilians. Why would they look so much like reptiles? What gave them the idea that anything related to reptiles are in other planets?

It's nothing but a product of our imagination. After all we can't really feel emotionally attached to something that doesn't resemble what we are used to seeing.

Let me just put this short and simple. I believe it's beyond our ability to imagine what aliens look like. I don't buy into any of these abduction stories.

Lol, i think that the reason behing the reptilian look is obvious, we are naturally afraid of snakes, we for some reason used to be afraid of dragons, and when we started to found dinnosaurs fossils we became afraid of them too, so in our collective ideas, reptiles are not good so is very logic that the representation of a bad alien would have reptilian characteristics.

I know there are exceptions to the rule, in fact, i love reptiles, but i knot im not like most of mankind.

All the way back to the stories of Adam and Eve the serpents are evil. It is a natural phobia of many people I'm just supprised that people didn't make up spider aliens yet.

Reptilians dominated this planet for millions upon millions of years. If not for alleged natural catastrophes, who knows how they could have evolved?
I don't support or deny the claim of 'reptilian aliens' for what it's worth.

Originally posted by mentors17

Originally posted by MonteroReal

Originally posted by PoorFool

Originally posted by guohua
Are you talking about the Greys?
The short Bald, Ugly Big Eyed did I say short,,,,,, long armed and skinny little guys or gals?
No real mouth or ears or nose to speck of, do they even have a belly button?
Personally, I think their clones of a race that is dying.
Could that be the reason for the abductions, the probings and possibly the removal of Ovaries, Sperm and implants?

Yeah, and the Reptilians. Why would they look so much like reptiles? What gave them the idea that anything related to reptiles are in other planets?

It's nothing but a product of our imagination. After all we can't really feel emotionally attached to something that doesn't resemble what we are used to seeing.

Let me just put this short and simple. I believe it's beyond our ability to imagine what aliens look like. I don't buy into any of these abduction stories.

Lol, i think that the reason behing the reptilian look is obvious, we are naturally afraid of snakes, we for some reason used to be afraid of dragons, and when we started to found dinnosaurs fossils we became afraid of them too, so in our collective ideas, reptiles are not good so is very logic that the representation of a bad alien would have reptilian characteristics.

I know there are exceptions to the rule, in fact, i love reptiles, but i knot im not like most of mankind.

All the way back to the stories of Adam and Eve the serpents are evil. It is a natural phobia of many people I'm just supprised that people didn't make up spider aliens yet.

Lol, not spider aliens, but the other choice for evil aliens is usually insectoid.

And of course, the good aliens are beautiful, look human, white and blonde, and i think there are others who look human, white but with black hair, of course, black hair = evil.

I think the Greys are the most common because they have the most contact with us.
That is because ( this is just my thoughts ) they are easily maintained by another race.
I believe a dying race, that needs our DNA or our Conciseness, they need something from us or they're hoping to find that something.

I also believe in the Aliens I mentioned earlier, the boneless ones, kinda like jelly fish or squid.

Maybe I should ask Hitler. Wait I'm to late dang it I know the government would never hide anything from me like aliens. I'm sure that one species of aliens contacted us. Our nuclear technology aliens might not posses like how we don't have ray guns.

Insectoids? are those the praying mantis ones I would find a gaint praying mantis a little scary.

Originally posted by mentors17
Insectoids? are those the praying mantis ones I would find a gaint praying mantis a little scary.

lol, the ones in Starship Troopers.

Originally posted by MonteroReal
Why universal peace? why we need to collectively focus in space travel? our world is simple, there are some countries who can and others who can't, countries like Burma, or Tahiti are totally irrelevant for an space travel project. I don't know how peace in East Timor would have a positive impact in space travel, or if they have peace, what could they do to help? what they have? nothing.

how can you not see past the initiation to the conclusion? seriously. THINK ABOUT IT.

World peace is not a requirement, the requirement is that the countries with advance technology work together.

You miss my point entirely. If we cannot look past our own differences enough to care for our own - we will not be welcome in a cosmic neighbourhood. You are so readily willing to abandon whole countries of people simply because they were unlucky enough to be born into different circumstances to you...I wonder what you'd be willing to do to an alien?

-B.M

This is where I was getting at. Reptillians are just the product of someone's imagination. Likewise are the Greys, but people think they are real.

They'd probably be able to recycle everything just about. And as far as energy production, I've sure they'd have something down where it'd be abundant, between that and recycling....I doubt they'd need to "pillage" planets.

Originally posted by B.Morrison

Originally posted by MonteroReal
Why universal peace? why we need to collectively focus in space travel? our world is simple, there are some countries who can and others who can't, countries like Burma, or Tahiti are totally irrelevant for an space travel project. I don't know how peace in East Timor would have a positive impact in space travel, or if they have peace, what could they do to help? what they have? nothing.

how can you not see past the initiation to the conclusion? seriously. THINK ABOUT IT.

World peace is not a requirement, the requirement is that the countries with advance technology work together.

You miss my point entirely. If we cannot look past our own differences enough to care for our own - we will not be welcome in a cosmic neighbourhood. You are so readily willing to abandon whole countries of people simply because they were unlucky enough to be born into different circumstances to you...I wonder what you'd be willing to do to an alien?

-B.M

Lol, you see, i don't miss your point, i don't have a problem with your idea of how desirable can universal peace be, of course i think is wishful thinking, but anyway, my real problem is with what i think is a flawed argument.

You say universal peace is necessary to achieve space travel, i think is not, is that simple.

I never say i will abandon other people, you know, nice strawman, what i do say is that in the end, there are countries and people who will be irrelevant to the project because they are not needed to build a warp motor, a hull, they don't have resources needed, and if they are not needed, it doesnt matter if they are at war, so your argument is flawed.

I don't know nothing about a "cosmic neighbourhood", i don't talk with aliens, so i really don't know if i want to be welcome, and the answer to your last question depends, "how tasty are they?".

Originally posted by MonteroReal
You say universal peace is necessary to achieve space travel, i think is not, is that simple.

right....
but that's NOT what I'm saying.

I'm saying that if we DID succeed in that fashion we would not be accepted by the broader universal community - and I imagine we would be prevented from that forcefully if other life forms deemed it necessary for their own protection. So while I agree with you that yes we could achieve space travel without peace - we would not last very long. That is my point.

I never say i will abandon other people, you know, nice strawman,

I don't even know what that means so suggesting 'stawman' something is what I was doing makes no sense.

what i do say is that in the end, there are countries and people who will be irrelevant to the project because they are not needed to build a warp motor, a hull, they don't have resources needed, and if they are not needed, it doesnt matter if they are at war, so your argument is flawed.

No its not, you are just being short sighted -
this is why -
If there was equal distribution of information, wealth, etc - as there would be in a 'world peace' climate, then there no longer would be any countries incapable of helping.

I don't know nothing about a "cosmic neighbourhood", i don't talk with aliens, so i really don't know if i want to be welcome, and the answer to your last question depends, "how tasty are they?".

Cosmic neighbourhood = the universe & all it's inhabitants.

you don't know if you want to be part of a peaceful community unless they turn out to be good eating?

Nuff said.

-B.M

Originally posted by B.Morrison


I'm saying that if we DID succeed in that fashion we would not be accepted by the broader universal community - and I imagine we would be prevented from that forcefully if other life forms deemed it necessary for their own protection. So while I agree with you that yes we could achieve space travel without peace - we would not last very long. That is my point.

Why would not we last long?, i think you are making a lot of assumptions about what is out there.

No its not, you are just being short sighted - this is why - If there was equal distribution of information, wealth, etc - as there would be in a 'world peace' climate, then there no longer would be any countries incapable of helping.

First, equal distribution of wealth is impossible i think, but that is an opinion, lets assume is possible.

There is equal distribution of information, wealth, and still, a space travel project won't need every country and every body, what do u propose? "hey you Burma, do you have this metal? No? ok, so what about if you clean the floors so you can have your share"

Come on, it makes no sense, nobody is going to ask for help they don't need, if you are wealthy and have the knowledge to do and spaceship, why ask to others?, of course, the usual answer will be to reduce the cost, but in the world you propose i suppose cost are not that important or huge, so, again, why would everybody be needed?, you know, we are a social species, but we still doesnt share that much.

Cosmic neighbourhood = the universe & all it's inhabitants.

you don't know if you want to be part of a peaceful community unless they turn out to be good eating?

I don't want to be part of a peaceful community if that mean turn humanity in some drone race that think everything is cute bunnies and happy faces, the fact is that our violence and aggression is a very useful survival resourse and i would never accept to suppress that because i don't know when the SHTF and we as a species would need it.

Of course, i think you are again making a lot of assumptions about what is out there, what if the cosmic neighbourhood is a bad community full of gangs, thugs, criminals?

If they are tasty, of course i would prefer to eat them, you know, the only reason humans reject a good meal is because they are on diet, well, there are the vegetarians, but what if the aliens are vegetables? mmmmmmm

Originally posted by MonteroReal
Why would not we last long?, i think you are making a lot of assumptions about what is out there.

Well yes I am but they are rational assumptions. The world is a less violent place then it used to be - peace & progress go hand in hand - just not in single life times.

isn't that the point of this thread? to discuss something we can only ever speculate on - the nature of aliens.

No its not, you are just being short sighted - this is why - If there was equal distribution of information, wealth, etc - as there would be in a 'world peace' climate, then there no longer would be any countries incapable of helping.

First, equal distribution of wealth is impossible i think, but that is an opinion, lets assume is possible.

There is equal distribution of information, wealth, and still, a space travel project won't need every country and every body, what do u propose? "hey you Burma, do you have this metal? No? ok, so what about if you clean the floors so you can have your share"

Come on, it makes no sense, nobody is going to ask for help they don't need, if you are wealthy and have the knowledge to do and spaceship, why ask to others?, of course, the usual answer will be to reduce the cost, but in the world you propose i suppose cost are not that important or huge, so, again, why would everybody be needed?

I'm saying its desirable. Not necessary - true, but it would put us at great risk as newcomers to long-distance space travel - exploration of alien planets etc - to go out there with hostile intentions. I am not suggesting we shouldn't have the capabilities to destroy things - I'm saying we need to learn not to use them.

you know, we are a social species, but we still doesnt share that much.

exactly - we need to change or interaction with aliens is doomed to fail. Btw I'm not suggesting there aren't hostile aliens out there that wreck up the place for everyone else - I'm just saying - lets not be one of them.

Cosmic neighbourhood = the universe & all it's inhabitants.
you don't know if you want to be part of a peaceful community unless they turn out to be good eating?

I don't want to be part of a peaceful community if that mean turn humanity in some drone race that think everything is cute bunnies and happy faces, the fact is that our violence and aggression is a very useful survival resource and i would never accept to suppress that because i don't know when the SHTF and we as a species would need it.

well I guess I'm saying that if we got our own planet in order - we wouldn't face the same issues of survival - and survival of the individual or the race? I would suggest that in many cases - violence & aggression cloud judgement and aggravate bad situations, I would think that adaptability, communication skills & an ability to manipulate emotions/thoughts would be more useful survival traits but I guess that is just my opinion.

Of course, i think you are again making a lot of assumptions about what is out there, what if the cosmic neighbourhood is a bad community full of gangs, thugs, criminals?

Its possible I suppose, who knows really, perhaps the big bang was really the result of a ridiculously destructive weapon that was fired during an alien war all that time ago...

if they are tasty, of course i would prefer to eat them, you know, the only reason humans reject a good meal is because they are on diet, well, there are the vegetarians, but what if the aliens are vegetables? mmmmmmm

what if they are sentient though?
"please don't eat me Mr. Montero!"
shut up space thug - om nom nom.



still sounds like we would be the true thugs in your version of things.

-B.M

Originally posted by MonteroReal

Originally posted by mentors17
Insectoids? are those the praying mantis ones I would find a gaint praying mantis a little scary.

lol, the ones in Starship Troopers.

Now that critter looks like it would have the personality and the atitude of my mother inlaw

I have a great feeling that if aliens do visit and do us all the honor of making their presence known to us to a point that even the governments have to admit they are here, they wouldnt be here to shake hands and share technology.
My reason for this belief is that for years we have fought argued over everything from religion to recources and power.

The first argument would be who had the tecnology and if they refused to give it on them grounds the worlds governments would undoubtably declare war on them (as futile as it may be) because its in our nature.

If anything i tink they would come to rape us of our recources and maybe evenb anhilate us to make their job easier.

Or they could come as a wolf in sheeps clothing (series v 2010 type scenario).
either way i think we would be doomed.
thats just my opinion buddy.

Well yes I am but they are rational assumptions. The world is a less violent place then it used to be - peace & progress go hand in hand - just not in single life times.

No, If we didn't have a 3WW is because mutual assured destruction, the most developed countries had less or no wars now because we know it would be bad, very bad, is not that we are better or more peaceful, is that we are more afraid of what we can do.

The other wars the most developed countries do are usually small, war now for them with nice modern technology is not man intensive as before, so big armies are not needed anymore.

In the less developed countries where the risk of nuclear wars if smaller/non existent there are still a damn lot of violence and aggression.

So i think you are ignoring the facts to justify that idea of more advance and less violence.

isn't that the point of this thread? to discuss something we can only ever speculate on - the nature of aliens.

Well, speculate, but don't make definitive statements of how the universe out there would be.

I'm saying its desirable. Not necessary - true, but it would put us at great risk as newcomers to long-distance space travel - exploration of alien planets etc - to go out there with hostile intentions. I am not suggesting we shouldn't have the capabilities to destroy things - I'm saying we need to learn not to use them.

if we learn not to use them, why would we have them?, man, really, is not that im violent, im very laid back, but i think that the only rational thing to do in a unknown universe is to learn how to use weapons and use them if needed.

And go out armed doesn't mean you have hostile intentions, only that you are bright enought to accept that you can't know everything and you can't know what would happen out there.

exactly - we need to change or interaction with aliens is doomed to fail. Btw I'm not suggesting there aren't hostile aliens out there that wreck up the place for everyone else - I'm just saying - lets not be one of them.

I do agree we need to share much information, but share everything is absurd, it won't happen, we are not that way, we are social, we create groups and we put our groups first, we compete, is our nature as species, and remember something, even if we put our groups first, if we have a big and common menace, we will share much much much more but only until the menace is gone.

And of course, i don't know, i can't say what humans would do out there, but if we need to become hostile, i don't doubt we will do it.

well I guess I'm saying that if we got our own planet in order - we wouldn't face the same issues of survival - and survival of the individual or the race? I would suggest that in many cases - violence & aggression cloud judgement and aggravate bad situations, I would think that adaptability, communication skills & an ability to manipulate emotions/thoughts would be more useful survival traits but I guess that is just my opinion.

Yes, it cloud judgement, and wishful thinking do it too, lol, i remember the first encounter between man and kzinti in the man-kzinti wars, kzinti were hostiles, humans peaceful, so when humans found the kzinti they jump to the conclusion, if we develop space travel because we became peaceful, then those aliens must be peaceful too, until they started to shoot of course.

Adaptability is part of our violence/aggression set, now, communication skills, manipulate emotions, thoughts are very useful traits to politics, but hey, unless your cosmic neighbourhood is some kind of massive burocratic parliament, i doubt we would need it.

And tell me, if things are not like you desire and the universe is a very hostile place, how would you destroy a ship with communication skills? shooting radios?

Its possible I suppose, who knows really, perhaps the big bang was really the result of a ridiculously destructive weapon that was fired during an alien war all that time ago...

lol

what if they are sentient though? "please don't eat me Mr. Montero!" shut up space thug - om nom nom.

lol, you know sentience won't matter if they are tasty enough, ohh yes, some would complain, but must people won't care.

still sounds like we would be the true thugs in your version of things.

We are a warlike and very territorial species, and i really think that the only way to change that is with a major genetic overhaul and somethink like that can backfire badly if it make us somekind of galactic treehuggers.

reply to post by Bob Down Under


Maybe us humans are a delicacy to them

Originally posted by MonteroReal

Well yes I am but they are rational assumptions. The world is a less violent place then it used to be - peace & progress go hand in hand - just not in single life times.

No, If we didn't have a 3WW is because mutual assured destruction, the most developed countries had less or no wars now because we know it would be bad, very bad, is not that we are better or more peaceful, is that we are more afraid of what we can do.

potato, pohtahtoh.

Also I was thinking of the violence of say - medieval age versus industrial age...more general violence than wars but I do agree with you about the difference between the consequences of war today versus 100s of years ago.

The other wars the most developed countries do are usually small, war now for them with nice modern technology is not man intensive as before, so big armies are not needed anymore.In the less developed countries where the risk of nuclear wars if smaller/non existent there are still a damn lot of violence and aggression.So i think you are ignoring the facts to justify that idea of more advance and less violence.

kind of not really - I got the ideas from a TED talk available on youtube titled 'the world is a less violent place' and the presentation included a bunch of research and statistics etc. Check it out if you want. Also like I should have clarified - and as was done in the video - I'm using a very broad timeline.

isn't that the point of this thread? to discuss something we can only ever speculate on - the nature of aliens.

Well, speculate, but don't make definitive statements of how the universe out there would be.

sorry I didn't realise I had?

I'm saying its desirable. Not necessary - true, but it would put us at great risk as newcomers to long-distance space travel - exploration of alien planets etc - to go out there with hostile intentions. I am not suggesting we shouldn't have the capabilities to destroy things - I'm saying we need to learn not to use them.

if we learn not to use them, why would we have them?, man, really, is not that im violent, im very laid back, but i think that the only rational thing to do in a unknown universe is to learn how to use weapons and use them if needed.

I agree - key words - "if needed". Most of the times a trigger is pulled on a gun it was not necessary. People kill people all the time when its uncalled for - its these behaviours I believe is the problem - not the weapons themselves - the weapons are probably tied into technology development in general - can't be helped. What we can help is our willpower, control, empathy, etc. I hope you get what I'm saying. I'm not talking about soldiers or shooting ranges or people hunting for food.

And go out armed doesn't mean you have hostile intentions, only that you are bright enought to accept that you can't know everything and you can't know what would happen out there.

right and I agree with you but you still seem to think I'm being black & white when I'm simply speculating...

exactly - we need to change or interaction with aliens is doomed to fail. Btw I'm not suggesting there aren't hostile aliens out there that wreck up the place for everyone else - I'm just saying - lets not be one of them.

I do agree we need to share much information, but share everything is absurd, it won't happen, we are not that way, we are social, we create groups and we put our groups first, we compete, is our nature as species, and remember something, even if we put our groups first, if we have a big and common menace, we will share much much much more but only until the menace is gone.

And of course, i don't know, i can't say what humans would do out there, but if we need to become hostile, i don't doubt we will do it.

no, and fair enough.

I still think you might be trying to disagree with me, but in my eyes we've reached the same conclusions we're just putting more importance on communicating different aspects of it. We're still more or less in agreement. And what 'sharing everything' has to do with 'not being a interplanetary a-hole' is beyond me - We don't need to "share everything" to achieve 'world peace' - agreed, 'equal distribution of opportunity would be enough. One other point is that if we allow - as you agree is a good idea - equal distribution of knowledge around the globe - just imagine all the Nicola Tesla's that might emerge from once obscure & rarely thought of countries.

well I guess I'm saying that if we got our own planet in order - we wouldn't face the same issues of survival - and survival of the individual or the race? I would suggest that in many cases - violence & aggression cloud judgement and aggravate bad situations, I would think that adaptability, communication skills & an ability to manipulate emotions/thoughts would be more useful survival traits but I guess that is just my opinion.

Yes, it cloud judgement, and wishful thinking do it too, lol, i remember the first encounter between man and kzinti in the man-kzinti wars, kzinti were hostiles, humans peaceful, so when humans found the kzinti they jump to the conclusion, if we develop space travel because we became peaceful, then those aliens must be peaceful too, until they started to shoot of course.

say what?

Adaptability is part of our violence/aggression set,

what? how?

now, communication skills, manipulate emotions, thoughts are very useful traits to politics, but hey, unless your cosmic neighbourhood is some kind of massive burocratic parliament, i doubt we would need it.

we don't need the skills to communicate effectively? c'mon man that's just daft.

And tell me, if things are not like you desire and the universe is a very hostile place, how would you destroy a ship with communication skills? shooting radios?

well you would use your weapons I guess. kill or be killed doesn't leave much room for creativity - but what I'm suggesting is that if we were to attempt outer space contact with aliens we would probably screw it up and make a mistake and it would be the end of us - we would resort to destructive measures before it was necessary. Yes I'm speculating.

Its possible I suppose, who knows really, perhaps the big bang was really the result of a ridiculously destructive weapon that was fired during an alien war all that time ago...

lol

I'm glad you realise I wasn't being serious...
still you could base one hell of a scam religion on the idea
Or it could provide an trippy setting for a sci fi movie.....

what if they are sentient though? "please don't eat me Mr. Montero!" shut up space thug - om nom nom.

lol, you know sentience won't matter if they are tasty enough, ohh yes, some would complain, but must people won't care.

seriously? but it would talk to you from your dinner plate. It would scream as you bit into it.... sure there's people who would - but the public backlash *I imagine* would be likened to the backlash for those chinese women paid crap all money to crush kittens under a sheet of clear perplex & who probably would have done it anyway because they took pleasure in it

still sounds like we would be the true thugs in your version of things.

We are a warlike and very territorial species, and i really think that the only way to change that is with a major genetic overhaul and somethink like that can backfire badly if it make us somekind of galactic treehuggers.

now THAT is an interesting theory. You may well be right - are you suggesting that even if we underwent a complete psychological overhaul - we would still be unable to break free from our 'primal' instincts until we literally changed our physical composure?

Trippy.

you have displayed some kind of fear of hippies though.

We can't all be hippies - like you said before we aren't drones - and no way is that the good option (drone) - and even the hippies can't be hippies all the time so maybe you're onto something with the genetics thing.

Though the genetics overhaul might happen through psychedelics. the right flora consumed - those worlds are largely unknown to us - who knows what evolutions might be possible...

-B.M

Originally posted by guohua


Anyway if anyone is interested: www.cbsnews.com...
When considering the prospect of alien life, humankind should prepare for the worst, according to a new study: Either we're alone, or any aliens out there are acquisitive and resource-hungry, just like us.

These two unpalatable options are pretty much the only possibilities, according to the new study. That's because evolution is predictable, and alien biospheres should thus produce intelligent creatures much like us, with technological prowess and an ever-increasing need for resources.

Those are not the only possibilities about the aliens. There is also the other option wherein the aliens are already so technologically advanced that they already harnessed the power of the stars and the magnetic force of their planets for their energy needs. As for food, they are so efficient that they only need a few hectares of land to feed millions of them. They are also vegetarians so they don't need to eat meat. They are also peace-loving so they are not a threat to us.