"I have gay friends, but..." Umm... No, you don't...

reply to post by seeashrink


I second that.. In that users short history they have posted nothing but "extreme T & C violations" and as I said before it's clear he wants this to be his last night on ATS.

reply to post by seeashrink


I guess you are a liar as well as a hateful little man? I have twisted nothing. You said it was a choice. I asked you about your attraction to men and women. You said you had none. I asked how it could be a choice. You ignored that. Ricky asked you further explain it. You responded with a long story about being molested. I am still just waiting for you to explain how it is a choice when you cannot explain ever making that choice yourself. That is it. You are the one talking about being molested for no reason so do not tell me I went off track.

Everytime I ask one of you to back up this "choice" claim, your head explodes. This one time, a sad personal story from childhood fell out. Unfortunately it did not make your case.

reply to post by seeashrink


Lmao anne I have no problem with homosexuals....I was just trying to add some humor in here it was gettin tense lmao. Seeashrink that was actually my service weapon LOL.

reply to post by Sinnthia


That's kind of sad. All are flawed, and interdependency to improve is a key way TO improve. You're friend is just hampering you to improve by saying everything is good. Stagnation leads to nothing.

Also, I've alwasy failed to see why hypocricy is bad in these issues. If thief says stealing is bad, does that make stealing good. No. Stealing is bad. The fact that he is flawed does not make the statement flawed. If anything, hypocrisy in such places is good. It means you know what you are doing is wrong, and you are too weak, but you at least help others not to fall into the same. I say that's very good hypocrisy.

reply to post by Sinnthia


Now, I'm a hateful little man. If you read all my post on this subject I have given my explanation. Maybe it didn't have your name on it so you passed over it.
I visited your profile to try and gain a little insight. Since you have only been here a few days it didn't help much.
We all on ATS succumb (sp?) to name calling from time to time but try not to let it get the best of you. I know nothing about you except for the words that you have posted here. From these words we all draw pretty weak conclusions about each other. Lets agree to disagree and perhaps you and I will have a better discussion in another thread.
Respectfully,
Seeashrink

Here's a newsflash for the OP, the world is not conveniently black and white. There are a million shades of grey out there. So yes it is possible to be friends with, respect or even love someone who doesn't share the same political, sexual, cultural etc views. Just sayin...

reply to post by Sinnthia


That is always the argument I use to.


Instead of asking if you could choose to be gay, ask if they could choose not to be straight, or choose not to be attracted to their wives or husbands or girl or boyfriends, and etc.

Originally posted by MarineSniper12Kills
reply to post by seeashrink

 

Lmao anne I have no problem with homosexuals....I was just trying to add some humor in here it was gettin tense lmao.

Oh yeah! Ya have to.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Sinnthia

 

That's kind of sad. All are flawed, and interdependency to improve is a key way TO improve. You're friend is just hampering you to improve by saying everything is good. Stagnation leads to nothing.

I never said any one of my friends praised a damn thing I did.

What I said was I would find it hard to befriend someone who is just as flawed as myself but spends all their time telling me how they feel about my flaws instead of fixing their own. Get it?

Also, I've alwasy failed to see why hypocricy is bad in these issues.

Then I would say we are all done here.

If thief says stealing is bad, does that make stealing good. No. Stealing is bad.

Stealing was ALREADY wrong, now the thief is just an ass too. Being BORN GAY is the same as stealing is it?

Anyway, yes if you continue to steal while telling me it is wrong to steal, then I cannot believe you believe what you are saying and thus your hypocrisy belies your intent. Get it?

The fact that he is flawed does not make the statement flawed. If anything, hypocrisy in such places is good.

Only because you are reaching for a thief to tell you that stealing is wrong when your own moral compass should have done that for you but would not make the lame point you are trying to make about how hypocrisy can be a good thing.

It means you know what you are doing is wrong, and you are too weak, but you at least help others not to fall into the same. I say that's very good hypocrisy.

edit on 25-12-2010 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)

This thread is about being gay, not CHOOSING to be a bad person. My other point still stands that if you are worried about anyone else's flaws above your own then you would not make a very good friend.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


Thanks, perhaps if I try phrasing it that way one of these folks will actually address the issue instead of tossing it out there and then running from it as they seem to do.

reply to post by MarineSniper12Kills
[more
Well I've handled one but never had the opportunity to shoot one. I too am a veteran and I appreciate your service. I did 10 years and never saw combat even though I was in service during two or three conflicts. Blessed eh.
Seeashrink

On a serious note. I do not see any harm in being gay. As a soldier who has done two tours in iraq I get judged and bashed all the time so I can somewhat see their pain. They pay their taxes, raise excellent children, and save lives everyday just as the heterosexual does. I personally do not have any gay friends but my wife does. They come over to the house alot and honestly we have great conversations. Great folk. My only issue would be if they came onto me...but it has yet to happen. Although I was with my father in walmart once when two gay men were practically falling over gawking at my dad. That would have been awkward if it were me and it was for him for a little while. Afterward we told my mother about it and she said" well even men think your are sexy" so lol not a bad thing.

reply to post by seeashrink


It shoots a heck of alot better than the m40a3 lol. Thank you for your service and your support to.

Originally posted by starchild10
Here's a newsflash for the OP, the world is not conveniently black and white. There are a million shades of grey out there. So yes it is possible to be friends with, respect or even love someone who doesn't share the same political, sexual, cultural etc views. Just sayin...

edit on 25-12-2010 by starchild10 because: (no reason given)

Yes but this is a function of maturity. Think back to when you were a kid you probably disliked people who did not like the same music as you did. I know that I did. I am not attacking you in anyway I agree with your post completely just thought to add my 2 cents.

Of course those who only befriend clonesof themselves are immature. When I think about it how many people know how to be a friend.

Rgds

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Gseven
. . . . because the gay community, by and large, do not believe in God and certainly don't ascribe to Biblical texts.

What?

Most gays I know are Christian. (sorry if they don't fit your concept of Christian).

You seriously need to experience life outside your bubble.

First, please read the post before you comment with uninformed disrespect. There is no hate in my post. There is also no mention of Christianity....YOU mentioned that. There is a reason for that, because my concept of what a true Christian should be and what the modern version is, is NOT what the Bible says they should be. There is a massive disconnect and Christians have been busy reinventing themselves and making up the rules as they go for the past 1,000 years or so. This is why we can have Christian clergy committing acts of adultery, homosexuality, money laundering, just to name a few, as well as Christian congregations that do all this and more, to include homosexual acts that are condemned. We can turn this into a Biblical debate, but it would be a short one...if you call yourself a Christian, then you can't pick and choose what rules you want to abide by. That's how politicians and law enforcement get corrupt....they believe themselves to be above the law, and pick and choose which laws apply to them and which ones don't.

I love everyone, despite what they do, as God loves me despite my own sins. Let's get that straight. No one here is perfect, and I am not condemning anyone. I am merely debating an "act" as something that is a choice, where others insist it isn't a choice - moreover, it is a sin, no different than adultery, promiscuity, pedophilia, rape, molestation, beastiality, necrophilia, orgies, and any other number of sexual indiscretion and perversion that I've missed. Not a sin against me, but a sin against their own bodies, their creator, and their souls. At some point, most of us have been guilty of at least one of these, (hopefully, just the promiscuity). Thank God for forgiveness and grace, if we have the wisdom to actually be remorseful and ask for it, that is.

Gays and their supporters are arguing that those who do not support the ACT (not the person) are wrong to do so, and I am simply pointing out that gays are wrong to commit the ACT while expecting everyone else to jump on board with support.

I will never buy for one moment that gays don't have a choice. Just as monks and nuns CHOOSE to be celibate and married to God, straights choose to be straight and gays choose to be gay. I CHOOSE to be faithful to my spouse. I could also choose not to be. I CHOOSE not to view porn out of respect to the person I married. We all make choices every day, and every day we reinvent who we are....gays are not exempt from this concept.

Until I see genetic evidence from every person who claims they don't have a choice, my stance is firm. And even then, I want to see proof that it isn't DNA damage caused by something else. Since I don't feel this is a natural evolution in human progression, but rather a possible mutation that works against population and procreation, (if it IS genetic), I do feel scientists should continue to work on a cure.

There was a study put out that homosexuals, compared to their straight counterparts, were far more depressed, unhappy, and leading unfulfilled lives, (according to THEM!!) despite many of them being in what they considered loving relationships. There are countless clinics that help people like this, and like it or not, there are many "recovering" homosexuals - just as addictions to drugs, alcohol and gambling can be cured with psychological help, so too can sexual addictions, to include homosexuality. The answer is clear as to why they are far more unhappy....there will always be a "hole" and an emptiness that cannot be filled by entering into a relationship with someone of the same sex, or rotating partners like they're going through a buffet line.

So for now, let's agree to disagree. I'm working off of clinical evidence. Until you provide what I seek, I will continue to love those who are different than me, but I will believe that they always have a choice, just as all of us do.

reply to post by Sinnthia


I made the choice to be straight....on more than one occasion. (And no, I never "went there", but I've had many opportunities to.) And God help me, if one person crawls out of the woodwork and tries telling me I'm a closet gay....well, I may have to wish them a Merry Christmas and leave it at that. Like many of my friends who have made jokes about being "bi-curious", I too could have gone down that road, but I didn't. Why? An instinctual feeling that I chose to listen to. The same voice I listened to when I said no to drugs when my friends were getting high. The same voice I listened to for a LOT of things in life that I credit my current blessings to. I wish I had listened to it more, to be honest.

I chose, and I waited a long time before meeting my spouse. For a while, I thought I'd live life without ever knowing what it was like to have someone to grow old with, and there were many times where I had taken a path I wish I hadn't with relationships, but somehow I knew that I'd make my life a LOT unhappier and get further away from my spirituality if I decided to go bat for the other team.

The more I read through threads such as these, the more I realise the increase in bigotry towards those who do not believe in Gay Rights and Oppression of the Majority. If you do not agree with homosexuality and don't want to change the definition of the word marriage to appease a minority, you are a "religious fundy" that thinks homosexuality is an STD. You can't have friends that happen to be Gay, you can't hold any ideal of Freedom in high regard and you cannot claim to be a tolerant person towards any cause. You are essentially seen as a sub-human that wants to erase those that are different to you.

Is this issue so Black and White? It feels like people are trying to make this a "either you are with us and support Gay Rights" or "you are against us and want to see Gay people suffer because you are so hate-filled! subject where there is no middle ground.

reply to post by Dark Ghost


Well what happened to humanity? Justice and fair play for all? No one is asking for conversion to gayness but some do not wish for conversion to straightness. I am also concerned about feeding hatred and divisions between working class people. Being slightly conservative I am not interested in what others do between the sheets or whereever they have intercourse.

I also respect your right to do whatever you do as a consenting adult provided it does not breach the law or human decency or involves children or the mentally impaired in an exploitative manner.

However I repeat I am not the policeman for your thoughts.

Let me pause and say....

I hope you all have a very Merry Christmas, gay or straight! My family is vegging out, enjoying their new gifts, napping, playing games, etc.

I do wish everyone happiness and love this season. In the end, does any of this really matter? We're all just defending what we believe to be right and true. I can do it just as good as the next person.

But I wanted to pause and not forget what this time is about. Merry Christmas all!

Even though I'm a tobacco cessation counselor, and disagree with smoking I don't think that those around me who smoke are lesser because of it. ??? I just disagree with their lifestyle. If someone disagrees with homosexuality, that doesn't mean they can't be friendly with and have understanding for homosexuals.

If my smoking friend tells me I'm a bigot because I don't accept his lifestyle, and tries to force it upon me, then I see a problem with that.