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Emptiness and Nirvana

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posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
reply to post by RRokkyy
 


Hmmm... So what does the devotee do? Just remain open and receive what the guru gives him/her? When does the devotee take the reigns and begin to progress himself? When does the devotee begin to search and understand for himself? If he is not suppose to search for an understanding himself, then how did Adi Da become enlightened or "one with God"? Or is Adi Da a chosen one, say like Jesus, Muhammad and Moses were? See this is where I must question his intentions.



This Teaching is the Most Beautiful Thing in the Universe. Why do you resist it? The Devotee must Understand.


Excerpt from the Epilogue of the Knee of Listening by Adi Da.
Heartless one, Narcissus, friend, loved one, he weeps for you to understand. After all of this, why haven't you understood? The only thing you have not done is understanding. You have seen everything, but you do not understand. Therefore, the man of understanding leaps for joy that you have already understood. He looks at the world and sees that every one and every thing has always understood. He sees that there is only understanding. Thus, the man of understanding is constantly happy with you. He is overwhelmed with happiness. He says to you: See how there is only this world of perfect enjoyment, where every one is happy, and every thing is blissful. His heart is always tearful with the endless happiness of the world. He has grasped it, but no one is interested. He is of interest to no one. He is fascinating. He is unnoticed. Since no one understands, how could they notice him? Because there is only understanding, he is beloved, and no one comes to see him. Because there is only truth, he is likely to become famous. Since there is only joy, he will not be remembered. Because you have already understood, you find it necessary to touch his hand. Since you love so much and are not understood, you find it possible to touch his ears. He smiles at you. You notice it. Everything has already died. This is the other world.

edit on 15-12-2010 by RRokkyy because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 11:19 PM
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reply to post by LifeIsEnergy
 


Did what was posted here at all answer your questions about the Nine Yanas and the Initiations of Major Mysteries?


And about the recent discussion in this thread, let us just say that Buddhism, Kabbalah, Gnosticism, and Sufism, are all taught to be, Esoterically, from the same Supreme Source.

The publicly known of histories of Religions–although having their usefulness–are very subjective, as they are subject to manipulation. Sure there are a few certain things that everyone would agree on about the various Religions; but the real history and meaning of scriptures can only be known, when the elements that obscure perception (our egos) are removed. This is why Gnostic Instructors always suggest that instead of reading books by non-Initiate scholars (unless of course one is studying to pass a class in regular school), it is better to study the Scriptures ourselves and Meditate on them.




"Great Schools of Regeneration have existed through the course of history (it is enough for us to remember the Rosicrucian Alchemical School that became secret in the year 1620). Likewise, it comes into our memory the schools of Aryavarta Ashrama of Tibet, as well as the Sect of the Manicheans of Persian origin, and the famous Sufis with their sacred dances, the Templars, etc.

"All of these were schools of Regeneration; the “Coitus Reservatus” is practiced in all of them. The schools of Regeneration constitute the Golden Chain of the White Lodge."




Samael Aun Weor always said that students need to Meditate as to follow their Inner God (He also explained how our Inner God is not of any sort of "Superior "I"". Remember that the "I", is not the I AM of the Kulayaraja Tantra or the I AM of the Eheieh Asher Eheieh of Kabbalah).


The following is an excellent audio lecture from Gnostic Radio, about the Buddhist practice known as:



Guru Yoga






edit on 16-12-2010 by Tamahu because: edited



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 01:34 AM
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reply to post by Tamahu
 


Hmmm... I must of missed that other post you made to me. In the words of one of my good friends i must say "You've been snapping!"


I was surprised in that list of authors you didn't name Thich Nhat Hanh, he has wrote over 30 books and is super easy to read. I just got done reading "The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching" and although I've studied much of what he wrote in the book before, his non-attached and broad perspective of the different Buddhist sects philosophies is wonderful. Check it out.

Yes, I have to look further into the nine yanas as none of the books I currently have speaks of them. I have been visiting that Gnositc website off and on since you introduced me to it and there is a lot of great stuff on there! Although I must admit, that speaker guy has given me a headache with his long discussions.
He tends to wonder around from subject to subject in each teaching a little to much for me, I wish he stayed on topic more. By the way, who is the speaker? I looked around but couldn't find info on who it was.

Anyways, all the info you have put in these threads is very much appreciated and it will take some time for me to go through it all, but thank you! I am not so much interested in the mysticism and metaphysical stuff, but I do feel there is probably some really useful knowledge in it so I will continue to look into it. To be honest, out of everything I have looked into and studied, which I'm sure isn't much in comparison to what you have, the core teachings of the Buddha are by far the clearest, most logical and most helpful to me. It does not take blind faith or strong beliefs to benefit from them, only some thoughtful contemplation and effortless practice.

Oh by the way, I just was given a copy of Plato's Republic that I am going to read over the holiday break, I am excited!
Been wanting to read that for a few years now.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 02:13 AM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 


It's a trick, women literally changed their mind so they would be able to be everywhere where they want without getting blame. It's a network on another level, They suck!



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 03:22 AM
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About this:



Originally posted by NewAgeMan
especially "new age" as a prejorative..



To clarify, the times that I've said "New Age" (with quotations), I did not mean to belittle the New Age itself (much less you). When I use quotations for "New Age", it's because I'm referring to the false "New Age" teachings of channelers and mediums. The real New Age teachings are good.





edit on 16-12-2010 by Tamahu because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 03:45 AM
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Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
Hmmm... I must of missed that other post you made to me. In the words of one of my good friends i must say "You've been snapping!"
I was surprised in that list of authors you didn't name Thich Nhat Hanh, he has wrote over 30 books and is super easy to read. I just got done reading "The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching" and although I've studied much of what he wrote in the book before, his non-attached and broad perspective of the different Buddhist sects philosophies is wonderful. Check it out.


I've read excerpts here and there of Thich Nhat Hanh's writings, and from what I understand his teachings are totally positive. Perhaps I'll read one of Thich Nhat Hanh's books one day (I actually used to have one of his books that has a forward by the Dalai Lama).



Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
Yes, I have to look further into the nine yanas as none of the books I currently have speaks of them. I have been visiting that Gnositc website off and on since you introduced me to it and there is a lot of great stuff on there! Although I must admit, that speaker guy has given me a headache with his long discussions.
He tends to wonder around from subject to subject in each teaching a little to much for me, I wish he stayed on topic more. By the way, who is the speaker? I looked around but couldn't find info on who it was.


Which speaker?

The younger American Gnostic Instructor?

Or the older Hispanic Gnostic Instructor? (who was a direct student of Samael Aun Weor in Mexico)

(A female Gnostic Instructor has recently been giving lectures on Gnostic Radio as well)

Anyway, they have said that they want to remain anonymous for various reasons. Although if you go to the city of that Gnostic School, I believe that you can just drop in for the lectures when they have them (usually every Saturday morning).



Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
Anyways, all the info you have put in these threads is very much appreciated and it will take some time for me to go through it all, but thank you! I am not so much interested in the mysticism and metaphysical stuff, but I do feel there is probably some really useful knowledge in it so I will continue to look into it. To be honest, out of everything I have looked into and studied, which I'm sure isn't much in comparison to what you have, the core teachings of the Buddha are by far the clearest, most logical and most helpful to me. It does not take blind faith or strong beliefs to benefit from them, only some thoughtful contemplation and effortless practice.


If the teachings of The First Turning of the Wheel of Dharma (Shravakayana and Pratyekayana) resonate with you the most, then that's fine. Everyone is at their own level. In fact, it is best to have a solid understanding of The Four Noble Truths, The Four Seals, etc. of the Sutras, before moving on to the Tantra teachings. There are a lot of people who want to just jump right into the Highest Tantra Yoga, Mahamudra, etc. practices, without even first understanding the basics of Buddhism and Yoga (such as Yama, Niyama, Asana, Pranayama, Pratyahara, Shamatha, Dharana, Vipassana, Dhyana, and Samadhi).

I've been so foolish myself, and still have a lot to learn about the basics.

Also, Samael Aun Weor even wrote that some people's Inner Buddha's only want to enter the Spiral Path of the Shravakas and Pratyekas, instead of the Direct Path of the Bodhisattvas.

If you want to study Gnosis, yet you still resonate a lot with Krishnamurti and the Sutrayana teachings; know that Samael Aun Weor stated that since Gnosis is the root of all authentic Religions, we can remain as devotees of our respective Religion ("Religion" means etymologically the same thing as "Yoga") and still enter Gnosis.



Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
Oh by the way, I just was given a copy of Plato's Republic that I am going to read over the holiday break, I am excited!
Been wanting to read that for a few years now.


I've been wanting to read Plato's Republic for a few years as well. The Pythagoreans, Platonists, and Neo-Platonists, are totally Gnostic. If you can, get a hold of Thomas Taylor's translations. His are the best, because he was an Initiate, not a profane scholar.




edit on 16-12-2010 by Tamahu because: edited



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 11:13 AM
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reply to post by RRokkyy
 


how is it possible for you to even talk about kabbalah, zohar, without knowing a thing about it? It takes many years of study, an understanding of Hebrew and Aramaic, to be able to discuss these topics.

Seriously. it always kills me how people hear something and than pass it off as truth.

The zohar is based on Jesus, now? lol. thats just as ludicrous as the gnostic mumbo jumbo that the dominican friars who argued nachmanides at the court of james I of aragon argued that the Talmud - a book written by Jews, supported the doctrine of the trinity, and thus christianity.

I mean. how unbeliebably dishonest an argument is that?

In Nachmanides words:

"Does he mean to say that the sages of the Talmud believed in Jesus as the messiah and believed that he is both human and divine, as held by the Christians? However, it is well known that the incident of Jesus took place during the period of the Second Temple. He was born and killed prior to the destruction of the Temple, while the sages of the Talmud, like R. Akiba and his associates, followed this destruction. Those who compiled the Mishnah, Rabbi and R. Nathan, lived many years after the destruction. All the more so R. Ashi who compiled the Talmud, who lived about four hundred years after the destruction. If these sages believed that Jesus was the messiah and that his faith and religion were true and if they wrote these things from which Friar Paul intends to prove this, then how did they remain in the Jewish faith and in their former practice? For they were Jews, remained in the Jewish faith all their lives, and died Jews - they and their children and their students who heard their teachings. Why did they not convert and turn to the faith of Jesus, as Friar Paul did? ... If these sages believed in Jesus and in his faith, how is it that they did not do as Friar Paul, who understands their teachings better than they themselves do?"[2]

"[... it seems most strange that... ] the Creator of Heaven and Earth resorted to the womb of a certain Jewish lady, grew there for nine months and was born as an infant, and afterwards grew up and was betrayed into the hands of his enemies who sentenced him to death and executed him, and that afterwards... he came to life and returned to his original place. The mind of a Jew, or any other person, simply cannot tolerate these assertions. You have listened all your life to the priests who have filled your brain and the marrow of your bones with this doctrine, and it has settled into you because of that accustomed habit. [I would argue that if you were hearing these ideas for the first time, now, as a grown adult], you would never accept them."



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 11:26 AM
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reply to post by LifeIsEnergy
 


Moses never made himself an object of worship.

A leader, yes. but he never had people fan him and adore him.

Thats the biblical definition of idolatry.

There is only one power, one G-d, and no human being can stand as an intermediary between you and him. Not jesus, not Adi da, and even according to the kabbalah and jewish tradition, not even the moshiach. That has NEVER been a authentic Jewish belief. Its a pagan one.

The Messiah is only a man, born of natural means from the davidic line. His soul is the all encompassing soul of creation; and his only purpose is to bring people back to the simple faith and belief in the one G-d. So in tyruth, the messiah has to be a remakably humble person, who would shun with all his being the attitude you see in this adi da character.

This is much different from proclaiming yourself as article of worship. No. a created being realizes the reality of his otherness; even if it is also true that he is completely one with his source.

But thats the point. you can cling to your teacvher and learn from him, but the teacher can never and should never forget that he is HUMAN. He is human, capable of the same faults and lackings that any of us are. Anytime you think youve become a divine being, and outgrown the possibility of arrogance, and so conduct yourself in egomaniacal manner. thats when you leave spirituality and indeed, push G-d - the one reality, who is not you, but another, out of your life. You have made yourself G-d and have the audacity to assert an infallibility and perfection in your knowledge; as if your incapable of failure.

Thats why Judaism is rational. It doesnt assume that Humans are capable of being perfect, beyond fault. That is arrogance, and it leads to arrogance.
edit on 16-12-2010 by dontreally because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by RRokkyy
 


Right....

Well, G-d created a dual universe for a reason. True unity is a unity that encompasses both a simple oneness and a plurality.

Thats Judaisms emphasis. It sees both created reality, and the true reality, as working together; a female and a male relationship.

This is similar to how a man and woman unite to create a child, or how the power of hokmah, and the power of binah, unite to produce zeir anpin.

So well, i guess its your pagan attitude that makes your perspective incompatible with Judaisms. And indeed. This is the source of the conflict between Judaism and the 'perennial philosophy' which you speak of; which underlies all traditions except for the biblical, kabbalistic one.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
Thats Judaisms emphasis. It sees both created reality, and the true reality, as working together; a female and a male relationship.



This is taught in Buddhism as well. In Buddhism It is known as The Two Truths: Ultimate Reality, and Interdependent-Origination or Dependent-Origination.




"We must understand that the two truths are not independent of one another but are two different perspectives, or two natures, of the one phenomenon." - the Dalai Lama





Originally posted by dontreally
This is similar to how a man and woman unite to create a child, or how the power of hokmah, and the power of binah, unite to produce zeir anpin.



In Buddhism, this is explained by the Trinity's Three Aspects (which are One), which are: Dharmakaya, Sambhogakaya, Nirmanakaya.

See also: The Reality Source or Dharmodaya (DAATH).




edit on 16-12-2010 by Tamahu because: edited text



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by Tamahu
 


Well I assume it was "The younger American Gnostic Instructor" as that is how he sounded. He most definitely is intelligent, just maybe not all that well practiced in mindfulness. That is kind of odd they don't want to tell their identity, I wonder why? Do you know?

Yes, just meditating and studying the Twelve Turnings of the Four Noble Truths, the Eight Fold Path, the Five Skandha's, the Eighteen Dhatus, the Twelve Ayatanas, the Twelve Links, the Twenty Two Indriyas, and all the rest of the massive Dharma, seems like more than enough knowledge to go forth and conquer suffering and become truly an Awakened One. I am not sure I would call that "basic" tho as there is a difference between conventional knowing (reading) and the never ending process of actualization through practice, tho you are correct in that I have yet to study into the Tantras and many other readings.

My thing is this; our minds are full of imaginations that drive us to believe there is more and more truths hidden that we must seek, when most of the time we have already found what we need but our imaginations are not satisfied with this and so we overlook what we were originally searching for. We sometimes feel the truth should be more exciting, mysterious, extraordinary, than it actually is so we create a new 'truth'. It is like your friend who always exaggerates everything he says, he does this because he feels he is lacking attention, acceptance, power or self-worth, when in actuality we are fine with him being as he is. But nonetheless he does not see it this way and so he tells you there is more to the truth than there really is, and you believe him because he is your friend and you trust him. Now you repeat what he has told you to another friend and that friend believes you, and this cycle repeats until soon nearly your whole circle of friends believes this new 'truth' which in fact is only an exaggerated product of one mans imagination.

So now the trick is to learn how to listen and consider concepts or ideas that seem foreign to you, without letting them conform your own ideas or outlooks until you have thoroughly actualized for yourself that it is in fact true. And even then one must remain flexible enough to be able to change his/her outlook if evidence arises showing this 'truth' to in fact be not all that true. That is why the Buddha said beliefs can be illusions for our mind if we become too attached to them. Sometimes I feel many 'truth seekers', spiritual seekers, and/or religious people become far too attached to one set of beliefs or ideas and this blinds them from seeing the Ultimate Reality of things as they are.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by Tamahu
 


Im aware of this similarity between Buddhism and Judaism.

Neither reality can be rejected. The objective external reality is true. Good and Evil exist, and also, the subjective internal reality is true. Likewise, therei s an objective, eternal reality, that nothing changes, all is the same as it was before creation; and therefore everything is good, because G-d is good. So, internally, one should be aware of that aswell.

Take for example the case of a situation where someone yells at you and or is being unreasonable. If you can potentially explain to them and help them understand how they were wrong, than you should do so. But if you know such a person is too stubborn, and such a conversation would only result in furthering the conflict - than thats sinful behavior. Wisdom is understanding consequences. And wisdom is taking into account as real EVERYONES personal situation. I am not you, and you are not me. The idea that only the 'ultimate' reality counts, and therefore obviates morality, is evil, and wrong. Everyone is different and living in a different world. If someone is sensitive about a certain subject and me talking about it will cause him suffering, or shame, its a mitzvah - commandment, to act in the appropriate way.

This, I think is similar to the buddhist 8 fold path, which seeks equity, and righteousness in thought, speech and action.

Another one which most guys are used to, is woman. A woman can be very unreasonably, especially when shes on her period. Whenever my sister or mom gets in that sort of mood, i just tolerate it and understand that this is how theyre feeling. You need to show compassion and patience at these times. Likewise, i have obstacles to overcome in life; as do other people. I try to refrain from judging people because of this. Nonethless, those who are on the path need reproof so they can further perfect themselves. Reproof in these cases is good, and indeed, very beneficial to growth. But if youre judging someone and you know your judgement is only going to cause strife, you should avoid doing it. But if someone is doing somehing bad and shameful, and you know his doing it will influence others in a negative way, than its important that you voice your indignance, lest others be tempted by his behavior and follow it. (the media specializes in this sort of corruption)

This is all sound wisdom to me.

And i have read it in Christian, Buddhist, Islamic, Taoist and Hindu thought aswell.

If we all just conducted ourselves in righteousness, than we would be truly one. I take into account your reality; you take into account mine. Together we live as one because of it. And this is all because we recognize the truth and unity of G-d in this world, and beyond it.

Even in the case of homosexuality. I disapprove of it, and i think its a great spiritual blemish, but nonetheless, you have to show compassion for such people. You should want them to change and overcome this issue (which is completely possible, as is known), but if it'll cause conflict, let them be. If they want to do that stuff, let them do it on their own time. The own time it becomes a problem is when they publicize it and have parades dressed in obscene and obnoxious ways. Do they care that children will see it? They dont care, because people like that are self absorbed. I know many gays who disassociate themselves from those who go to parades because they find it unethical and careless.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 03:28 PM
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reply to post by LifeIsEnergy
 


Well said, once again.

You definitely seem to be of sound mind (which is great, because many people seem to want to project all their neurosis onto Spiritual study and practice).

The Buddha always teaches about and through direct experience (Gnosis), instead of mere intellectual theory, and also teaches that the Path of Balance is of having our Intellectual Culture in equilibrium with the Heart Doctrine.


About the said Gnostic Instructor, let us remember that he–as he himself has said–is a Gnostic Instructor, not a Master.

As for his level of mindfulness; yes, we have heard him drop his microphone and trip over his words at times, etc. But let us consider a teaching by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche which is found in his Wonders of the Natural Mind.

In one chapter of this book, he wrote about how some people might see a Dzogchen practitioner cut their finger in the kitchen, and then said people might think or say something like: "How could you Be abiding in the Natural State, when you can't even cut vegetables without cutting your finger?" Well, as Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche explains, this does not necessarily signify (although it could) that the Dzogchen practitioner who cut their finger is distracted from the Natural State. Or in Gnostic terms, that they are or are not centered in the Consciousness.

As was written by either Keith Dowman, or Vajranatha (I don't remember which of the two authors wrote this), the Dzogchen or Mahasandhi Yana is not exclusively a school of "Sudden Enlightenment" or a school of "Gradual Enlightenment". It navigates both of them harmoniously.




reply to post by dontreally
 


Aside from the context of some doctrinal points that we might not agree on, I agree with everything you've said here.

This is why I've quoted what is found ("off-site content") in the following two posts:


About Kether, Enlightenment, and ego

On why accepting the Absolute Truth while rejecting the Relative Truth is not real Atiyoga


(Please read them when you get a chance; as they strike the very Essence of not only what you (dontreally) have said here, but also the entire Essence of the topic of debate in this thread)


As for the situation of homosexuals (whether they parade or not), I've learned that in order for them to avoid falling indefinitely into the Klipoth spheres–after their 108 humanoid existences (of which there are 3000 rounds of, or 108 x 3000 humanoid existences)–until paying all their karma; that they would have to repent and cease all means of fornication, and pray to receive a new physical body after they disincarnate; because a physical body that has engaged in homosexual activity is totally ruined.

Nevertheless, yes, we have to have compassion for everyone and–as Samael Aun Weor says–without being complacent with crime.


By the way, you might find the Gnostic Glossary definition of Jews to be very interesting:




Jews






edit on 16-12-2010 by Tamahu because: edited text



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by LifeIsEnergy
 


I'm quite sure that you are somewhat aware of the following intuitively; however, just to have our semantics straight, let us not confuse Imagination and fantasy.

Perhaps we could say that they are like two opposite poles of the same thing.

Imagination is related to Vipassana and Conscious Visualization, or Clairvoyance; whereas fantasy is mere daydreaming.

And in order to truly know the difference between Imagination and fantasy, we have to be Awakening from moment to moment, and would also have to be established in Shamatha in our daily Meditations.

The steps of Meditation (Yama, Niyama, Asana, Pranayama, Pratyahara, Shamatha, Dharana, Vipassana, Dhyana, and Samadhi)–according to Samael Aun Weor and Rudolf Steiner–lead to Imagination, Inspiration, and Intuition. Or perhaps we could say that Imagination, Inspiration, and Intuition–which are aspects of the said steps of Meditation–lead to Samadhi.


And in the Buddhist teachings, the Sanskrit terminology for those who are said to have gone beyond the stage of No More Learning–the Tenth Bhumi, Eleventh Bhumi, or Twelfth Bhumi (I believe that the Ninth Yana teaches Twelve or more Bhumis. See: The Practice of Dzogchen)–is called Paramarthasatya.


See also: Samyak Sambuddho, or Samyak Sambuddhi.





edit on 16-12-2010 by Tamahu because: edited text



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 06:44 PM
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reply to post by Tamahu
 


Hmm. very interesting.




Authentic Jews are only the Self-realized Masters, the Christified Ones, which are called esoterically, the children of the lion from the tribe of Judah or lion's cubs. Really, the fornicators belong to the synagogue of Satan, they are NOT lion's cubs.


Sounds like hes saying only christians, are the real Jews, and inheritors of the title, "yehudi". And that Jews in general, who adhere to Judaism, are of 'the synagogue of satan'.

Am i reading that wrong? Cause it sounds like thats what he is saying

No. you know im reading that just fine. Why wont you admit that gnostics hate Judaism? That they promote antisemitism towards Jews who embrace Judaism?

Seriously. just type into google "gnostic antisemitism". It'll lead to many forums. Aun Weor himself taught that the Religious Jews - judaism are trying to take over the world..

Why so much lying? Why so much agreement between all you different new age schools? The Jews have to 'dealt with" YHVH is an evil G-d?

You seem like a nice guy Tamahu, i just dont think you understand the gnostic viewpoint towards Judaism, That article clearly makes a distinction between the "new" israel, or jew, and the black 'synagogue' of satan, Judaism following Jew.

This sickens me. Its demonic, insane, nonsense. Judaism is fine. Its GNOSTICISM - and the nobility of Europe, who are pagan gnostics, who are the sick demented psychopaths reveling on their highway to hell.

Ive read your links; most of them. I can admit that youre a nice guy, and i dont want to insult you. But dont try to pass off Aun Weor or his gnostic theology as congenial towards Judaism. They regard Judaism as 'the synagogue of satan'. He constantly slanders, and attacks the 'rabbis' in his writings, in a typical, hypocritical, ornate fashion.

I was attracted to his writings 4 or 5 years ago, before i even discovered Judaism, and something about it struck me as dark, and demonic. Thank G-d i was drawn away from that aswell as all the new age theosophical crap i was studying. .

honestly. Have an instructor explain to you what 'fornication' means. it probably means reproducing and having children, as G-d commands mankind to do in the 2nd chapter of genesis.

Maybe im getting a little agitated because im currently reading some nonsense at this gnostic forum

www.thephora.net...


Gnostics are just so ignorant of Judaism, it is frightening! They'll say the strangest stuff. Its evil to be against ascetism? Why? G-d created a world in which were meant to unite the upper world, - the spirit, to this physical world, through ACTION. Through compliance and acceptance of the laws of noach. It just amazes me how this is construed as evil. Jesus. I wish i could give you a copy of my 'laws of lashon hora' , written by the Choffetz Chaim. Judaism seeks exactitude, and right action in every sphere of life. And it stresses the importance of not speaking negatively, or hurting anyone in anyway. This, some gnostics would assert, is evil. Its 'bridles' man to an obscene degree they;ll say. Instead of accepting the decree of the king - of G-d, to discipline yourself, they'll say no; its too much, we want something different.

And thats what christianity is. Thats what the Church of Rome is about. Thats why they planned the holocaust, and thats what theyre doing right now with the state of Israel.

Go read my 'noble houses' thread. You cant logically attribute the control in the world to zionists, when the capetian, merovingian nobles, who themselves are derived from the roman aristocracy, have ruled the world for 2500 years! Its simply not rational. They have the power. They were the kings in every generation until just recently where their power and titles have been deemed 'ceremonial'.

Ceremonial my ass. Aun weor is spreading the same philosopy that they believe. Same with Bailey, same with all the other theosophists, New agers of the last 120 years. Its been an agenda of theirs to spread this philosophy; and it has gone smoothly, clearly.

You want to believe it; go right ahead. Just know that these people you seem to think are so benevolent, have every desire to defeat and destroy Judaism, and thus Jews.

Even Hitler went so far as saying that evey Jew has to be killed. That Judaism was in his very Being.

Anyways. I can discuss this anymore; not morally atleast. I cant tolerate this attitude and this evil, complicit deception of theirs to convince others that Jews are an evil people; or that Judaism has evil intentions. Its evil, and wrong. Im a gentile who is very close with many rabbis. I have books on the Noahide code and i know full well what Judaism intends for the world; and for that to be twisted and mutated the way it has been, has only proven to me the guile and evil of gnosticism. I would probably embrace if i didnt have the wisdom to be able to compare the two, and understand that gnostic claims simply do not add up.

I get it. You are full of sexual angst and you dont want to submit to the letter of the law. To be bad for you. Now you'll have to face the consequences.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 07:27 PM
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I'm not sure what you mean about evil and asceticism; however, the Gnostic married couple who keeps the Samaya of Chaste Sexual Magic, are ascetic because they renounce the orgasm and fornication, by following the Sixth Commandment of יהוה (Yehowah, Jahovah, or Yod-Chavah; who is NOT to be confused with Yahweh or Javhe).

The Gnostic also follows The Fourth Way.

Samael Aun Weor also wrote that celibate bachelor(ettes) can attain what is called Elemental Buddha-hood, like Paramahansa Yogananda (see: Tarot and Kabbalah and Beyond Death: The Gnostic Book of the Dead). Although Samael Aun Weor simply did not recommend this Path, because of this:





"In everyday life we have been able to verify to the point of satiation that those who put aside the question of sex to live the superior life of the heart, considering everything having to do with eroticism as taboo, will sooner or later, suddenly, without warning, experience weariness and despair.

"It is clearly evident that the most deeply submerged egos surface; those that previously seemed dormant and lifeless burst into action, and all the spiritual joy achieved with such difficulty becomes an infernal apprehension.

"That sublime expectation of “resting in the Divine” then seems suddenly dashed and that which shone as endless harmony is turned into an abyss of vain illusions.

"For this reason, those who wish to achieve true liberation must never lull themselves into a false sense of security.

"We must learn how to live dangerously from moment to moment, instant to instant.

"True, direct, transcendental, mystic knowledge will certainly be impossible as long as one has inner conflicts.

"We need to grab the devil by the horns; it is essential that we capture the fiery torch from Typhon Baphomet, the Male Goat of Mendez.

"The esoteric Viparitakarani teaches how, through concentration, the “Yogi slowly raises the semen, in such a way that man and woman can attain Vajroli.”

"The woman is explicitly designated as a “saint” during the carnal act. She must also find herself in the position both to transform the fire of her sexual power and to be able to direct it to superior centers of the body.

"By making the semen ascend in the body, that is to say, by making it flow inward and upward instead of spilling it, by reverting the drops which the ignorant and profane send to the woman’s uterus, we activate the ethereal flame of the semen; we activate the igneous serpent of our magical powers through which we can and must reduce the animal ego to dust."




Single Yogins and Yoginis can Meditate, and perform Pranayama to maintain Chastity until they either meet their Spouse, or attain Elemental Buddha-hood.


In regard to what the Gnostics teach about Judaism versus Zionism, one can read through the two links that are found in the following post...:




The White Lodge and the Aryan Race



...and further investigate it more for oneself.





edit on 16-12-2010 by Tamahu because: edited text



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 07:56 PM
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reply to post by Tamahu
 


I want YOU to explain to me what Aun Weor defines as Zionism relative to Judaism.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 08:24 PM
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Cause that my friend is the issue.

He doesnt explain WHAT zionism is, nor does he explain Judaism. He just makes a separation between the two without defining what it is that separates them.

Secular Zionism - which actually promotes secular paganism (that is, liberalism - liber = Roman dionysus) is clearly not Jewish. But RELIGIOUS zionism, is the APPLICATION of Judaism, in the political world.

For 1700 years the Jews have been demoralized and degraded by the Romans. The christians, having inherited the mantle of Rome continued the persecution through the ages, and prevented the jews from returning to Zion. Do you know what Zion means? It means the Temple Mount,on mount Moriah, in Jerusalem. That is the point of Judaism. That G-d have a temple on the Temple mount, as described by the prophet Ezekiel, and the Jews return to Israel to serve G-d there.

That is Zionism. Its the realization of Judaism and G-ds command in the Torah for the Jews to live there, and serve G-d there according to the Laws of Moshe; the 613 commandments.

Now this ^^^^ is RELIGIOUS Zionism. This is the only real Zionism.

The elite know very well what the Torah , NaCH, Midrashim and Zohar predict about the end of days. The Talmud says there would be two Moshiachs. The former refers to a process, whereas the latter the material manifestion of Judaisms mission; which is to live in Israel, in peace, with all the nations of the world making peace WITH them. Than the world will be ruled by Torah, and the Law of G-d. Moshiach Ben Yosef - the first messiah, has alread come, somewhat. "Yosef", as you might know, means "he gathered". That is, gathered the Jew from amongst the diaspore, to return and live in the Holy land. This is obviously not a coincidence. The Talmud says that, and today it has partially happened. It wont be complete until the majority of Jews live in Israel (right now its about half). When this is complete, Moshiach ben David will return and ressurect the fallen Moshiach Ben Yosef. David - which means 'beloved' refers to the relationship that the Jews, and indeed all mankind, will have with G-d. It means we will be close to him; as his beloved.



So, when Aun Weor criticizes Zionism, and says "zionism is ok" but "judaism is not". What the hell is he talking about? Judaism he sure as hell knows has one desire, and thats to return to the land of Israel, LIVE there, as G-d himself commands.

Do you see how this is a fabricated argument? Hes simply created a reasoning why to oppose Zionism, but not Judaism - and hes done this from a metaphysical perspective. But metaphysically, the purpose of Judaism, and the crystal clear message of the Torah, is that the Jews live in the land of Israel. From the Nile, to the Euphrates. With the Holy Temple built and in use; with all the offerings and liblations mentioned in the Torah.

This worries me that you cant see the problem with this Zionism vs. Judaism thing. Cause there is only 1 Judaism, and two Zionisms. The latter religious Zionism is the manifestion on a political level of the destiny of the Jewish people, to live in Israel, and to follow the 613 Mitzvot (commandments) of their Torah. Thr latter zionism is a pgan abberation that could only be created from the minds of pagans; ie, the pagan western elite; their vatican, and the other instutions they control.

So.. How would you understand the difference between the two (Zionism vs. Judaism)
edit on 16-12-2010 by dontreally because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 11:47 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 



Moved Post




edit on 17-12-2010 by Tamahu because: moved post



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 12:19 AM
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Originally posted by Tamahu
Well, as Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche explains, this does not necessarily signify (although it could) that the Dzogchen practitioner who cut their finger is distracted from the Natural State. Or in Gnostic terms, that they are or are not centered in the Consciousness.


I want to add that my "although it could" in parenthesis above, was unnecessary commentary. But since it can't be edited anymore, I'll explain.

What was meant there, is that someone could be abiding in their Consciousness and still make mistakes every once in a while (unless of course they are a Paramarthasatya).

However, if someone is always clumsy, breaking things, accidentally hurting themselves and others all the time, etc., then such a person most likely does not have Conscious control of their Three Brains (Body, Speech/Emotion, and Mind).




edit on 17-12-2010 by Tamahu because: (no reason given)



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