Emptiness and Nirvana

reply to post by dontreally


Interesting. I do remember noting when watching that movie, the said reference to the Tetragrammaton. Although I don't understand–despite your explanation–the full significance of why they put it there. But, what you've shared is worthy of consideration.

Now as far as I understand, the Masculine has active aspects that the Feminine doesn't have, and the Feminine has passive aspects that the Masculine doesn't have. Likewise, the Masculine has passive aspects that the Feminine doesn't have, and the Feminine has active aspects that the Masculine doesn't have.

Nonetheless, let us get something straight here. I am NOT advocating any sort of emasculation.

The passive aspects of the Masculine need to remain passive, and the active aspects of the Feminine need to remain active. Otherwise there is imbalance. Likewise, the active aspects of the Masculine need to remain active, and the passive aspects of the Feminine need to remain passive. Otherwise there is imbalance.

Like I've said, the Masculine and Feminine are overall, simultaneously co-emergent from the aspect of the Primordial.

reply to post by Tamahu


Listen, im sorry for my tone.

Im indignant. I want to protect Judaism and Jews from false slanderous claims made against them.

When gnostics say "only zionism", which means, those of the "black lodge", which means "fornicators", which means, Rabbis who dont teach about the role of Da'ath... but than also say, they have nothing against Judaism; they are lying. Theyve concealed their demonization of Judaism behind this makeshift separation between Judaism and Zionism. As ive tried to explain, there has only be one Judaism taught for thousands of years. Only quite recently, in the 1770s, with the haskala (Jewish 'enlightenment') did a different, pagan judaism emerge. Reform, Conservative, or Neo chassific Judaism, is not authentic Judaism. It is not the Judaism of the Bible, or the Talmudic sages, or the midieval rabbis, or the chassidic Rabbis.

So clearly than, Aun Weor is speaking specifically about Orthodox Jews - whether Ashekenazi, Sephardic, or Chassidic. These are the same Jews who see Zionism, as the political realization of the prophecied return of the Jewish people to Eretz Yisrael.

To construe these people as evil, is offensive to me. Its offensive for many reasons. When i was going through a hard time awhile back, i found support in a orthodox Rabbi. Who had no reason to help a gentile. But he helped me. He showed unbeliebable compassion, and patience with me. Another Rabbi in Israel, who heads the Azamra institute, has been a very good friend to me. When he came to Toronto awhile back he welcomed me and my sister. I had a very deep discussion with him on the nature of politics, religion and the role of a Bnei Noach. When i left he blessed me, amnd his blessing has been a majort source of support. Observant Jews are beautiful, loving people. Sure, some of them can come off as insular or rude to non Jews. Id prefer they change their attitude those ones. But the Jews i know, which are both chassidic (breslov) Ashekenazi and Sephardic, have been unbelievably kind to me. They have opened their doors and welcomed me to spend a shabbat dinner with them.

To hear these libelous statements from Aun Weor, who frankly does not at all come off as a humble man, very much disturbs me.

Zionism, is a political movement. And the only purposeful, meaningful zionism, is the religious type.

Unfortunately, the nations of the world have made this Jewish dream unbelievably difficult for them. They are cruelly punished, and misrepresented by pagan, evil, "Jews" who could care less about being Jews. These Jews i refer to are the powerful ones in banking, business and media. They are not religious Jews, and they spit and despise the Judaism of their fathers.

reply to post by Tamahu


But how can that be said?

The masculine is the cause, and the feminine, the effect.

The infinite light, G-d, is the cause, and we, and creation itself, the effect.

Should not the effect be loyal to its cause?

The only way your cosmology can work, is if there was never a point of creation. But i think science is showing that there was a point of creation - called the big bang. In which case, the resultant reality - this universe, and the upper ones, are the consequence of a being which we call G-d, who willed it to occur.

reply to post by Tamahu


I get that the infiite light, is neither male or female. Im saying G-d is only called Male, because he to us is seen as the cause of our existence. Whereas the revealed world, nature, is female, because we see it and experience it.

But the cause - the masculine, impresses itself on the feminine, the physical, and so is the cause of her movements.

The idea that a masculine has feminine aspects, and the feminine has masculine aspects, is also true. But, nonetheless, the active elements in the feminine, are secondary, and likewise, the feminine aspects in the masculine, are secondary. We see this in men and woman, each of whom have a passive, feminine\masculine parts to their personality.

Also, in the terms of cause and effect, the effect of one thing is the cause of another. Meaning, a femine aspect can become the masculine because its the cause of what preceded it.

But its important to put things in context - into the ultimate context. When G-d created the world, he created the concept of "otherness". The other is feminine, because it is a consequence of the pure will of the former. Therefore, when created reality emerged, G-d became the masculine father. His reality which He created became the femine, mother. But nonetheless, the order itself implies a truism. The effect is dependant on its cause. G-d, the ultimate cause, is therefore the essence of even the effect, the feminine. The effect therefore must adhere to its cause, if its to realize its own true existence - which only comes from its cause - in G-d. So to have this dualistic, the feminine is as true as the masculine, despite the contradiction in terms, ignores the fact that the inherent condition of the feminine is derived from the masculine - as Eve was taken from the rib of Adam.

So i think inherently, the feminines natural state is passive, and never active. While the masculine is active, and not passive. This is demonstratable in so many ways. The mind which "controls" the heart. The physical man, which is much more active, and powerful, than the fragile and much less athletic female (and therefore passive).

A definite preponderance is being established here of activity and force in the masculine, and passivity and form, in the feminine.

reply to post by dontreally


Again, I'm not saying that there do not exist many Jewish people (meaning many Jewish people who don't agree with Samael Aun Weor's interpretation of Judaism versus Zionism) who are overall good people with good intentions.

And as far as I'm aware, Samael Aun Weor did not personally treat in a judgmental manner, those who he happened to know were fornicators. He simply wrote about the seemingly harsh truths of the effects of fornication versus Chastity in his books. But in his personal life, he is said to have been very kind and respectful to all people who he met, Jewish or otherwise. He even wrote that there are many sinners who are closer to Initiation than those who are apparently "doing everything right".

As for some of your other points, and about our other discussion; it seems that I won't have time to address them right now. Although in due time I'll try to.

Just to give you an idea of the simple joy and beuaty of Judaism

Watch this short clip. A Shir (song) of the most beuatifuk psalm in my opinion, psalm 150 - which speaks of the messianic age.



I cnnot tell you how many times i have cried, while reciting this psalm. This song, which to me is the most perfect rendition of this psalm in song, touches the very core of my being.

This is Judaism, my friend. Simple, beautiful and passionate in their love for G-d, and for all of his creation.

Shalom L'kol

Everyone seems to have lots of great wisdom and knowledge to share, but there seems to be a fundamentalism running through it. All fundamentalism which sets up an exclusive propostion, relative to other paths of God realization, and in so doing, divides us, one from another, by laying claim to the sole TRUTH, can be, and often is, unhelpful to the cause of the liberation of all human beings in bondage and unncessary suffering. Ultimately, there is only one thing I am fundamentalist about, and that is the love of Christ, which is the very spirit of the love of God. Therefore, in order to embrace my brother, of whatever faith or tradition, I would have to be willing to lay it all aside, for the sake of this love and mutuality. Anything else only becomes a weapon, or a the blunt club of a subhuman neanderthal, and no I'm not directing that at anyone here, except to perhaps point out a dilemma in our midst, which often serves, not to enlighten, and make happy and joyful, the human being, but to simply prove him wrong, and if needed kill him in some way or another, which is the very ANTITHESIS, of the love of God and his great work to bring about the brotherhood of man in a new relativistic framework, or what I like to call the relativity of human being as a family affair.
So I say that anyone who desperately wants and needs to be right to another's wrong, about GOD of all things, may have some work to do in the area of listening, and seeking first to understand, and only THEN to be understood. This then creates the space for THEIR listening, when it comes time for US to share something of value. Our own ears create the space of listening in the other person, provided we are willing to leave self behind fo the sake of another person's spiritual growth and well being, and this is love, which takes a LOT of discipline, especially if you are really in possession of a "superior" knowledge that you would really like for them to be able to access, or that simply cannot be held back or kept secret for the sake of what is in everyone's best interest!

That's one heck of a balancing act, eh?

There's more than one form of "assholiness".. and I'm just as guilty as the next guy, but I'm beginning to realize that if I don't HAVE something, something I've actually integrated, then I don't have anything to share, since we cannot give to another person, something we don't even have, ourselves.

Plus, it's always better to be a nothing than a big something, provided we are not a something in our nothingness, like Adi Da Samraj, perhaps the greatest narcissistic megalomaniac of all time (and yes, it takes one to know one!).

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Have you ever taken the time to study Judaism, or Chassidic, kabbalistic philosophy?

When youre studying Christianity or gnosticism, or Buddhism and Hinduism, theres very much room to see similarities in doctrine and thus the attitude that you have.

But Judaism is different, and my earlier post which discusses the issue of cosmology, and cause and effect touches at the root of the matter.

All G-d fearing Jews treat gentiles with love and respect, as it is both a commandment of Torah and the sages. But nonetheless, there is a disagreement theologically in how G-d functions in this world. And most of all, Judaism, and Torah, is based upon a concept which very different from other traditions.

Christianity, Hinduism and Buddhism, have avatars - jesus, krishna and buddah. They all preach a variation of the same perennial philosophy. But Judaism speaks of something on a mcuh grander scale; and in truth, their descendants maintain the truth of this tradition to this day. They believe 3400 years ago G-d took 4 million human beings - out of the kingdom of Egypt. In the process the creator performed wonderous miracles. He parted an entire sea for them, which all people had passed through. He than brought them to a mountain in the middle of the sinai peninsula, and appeared to them all. At that moment, their souls flew out and returned to their source; this was the beginning of Judaism. When G-d himself touched the very being of man, in this world.

this is why Judaism is different. Its claims are much different and other worldly than other traditions. Most of us doubt that they are true and simply pass it off as fantasy, or at the very most, allegory. But the sages say it was more than allegory. What happened was indeed symbolic, but symbolically performed with real human beings, in a real political environment.

There is nothing fundamental in Judaism other than their devotion to the creed and revelation their ancestors experienced at Sinai. And even above and beyond that, there is much reason in the Torah itself to believe in the uniqueness and truth of Torah. Hebrew is an otherworldly language.

I really hope no one takes my claims here as exaggerated. They are very literal. I have tried to present some examples of this, but its difficult to convince people who dont want to be persuaded. Every word has remarkable depth and meaning. From simple grammer, to gematria, unbelievable relationships can be made between different realities. Only someone who studies and understands Hebrew can really appreciate the breadth of the phenomena. It testifies to the truth of G-d, and Torah.

But even despite this, there of course has to be respect, patience and love between Jew and Non Jew.

reply to post by dontreally


I hardly study anything at all to be honest, and personally, to tell you the truth, I'm not even in possession of a whole lot of knowledge, and education. I barely graduated high school and am self taught, if you can call it that, since I'm beginning to realize, that I may know nothing at all, except some dimly percieved absurd joke at the end there, at the very point of simplicity, on the far side of complexity, it's something, about the human being's ACTUAL position in God's creation. So I'm not totally clueless either.

In case you didn't notice, me I just keep on posting, for the most part, a re-occuring theme, using much the same language pattern, and that's because I am really, not, not nearly by far as smart as I pretend to be, while APPEARING to be really smart and highly educated. Oh I can read, obviously, and whatever I have read, I eat of it, because I'm too lazy to spend a lot of time STUDYING something. So forgive me for rambling, the answer is no, but I do have SOME cognitive and felt experience, of the ah, person of Judaism, kind of like Judaism's Einstein of sorts, who appears to me, to have had access to other teachings as well. But other than that divine rabbi, not really, and to be honest, I've come to realize, that authenticity and good humour, good nature and love, for you, matters more than anything. That said, I can tell you right now, out of the gate, that while I'm willing at some point, time, and willingness permitting, to devote myself to the study of Judaism, perhaps on the basis that it might help me to discover the joke of all time, capable of saving the world (i now KNOW it's out there, lurking somewhere, and I'm after it now, full bore) - that I can never UN-get the love of Jesus Christ, or of Jeshua ben Yoseph (is that right?). The Nazarene on a cross, and don't worry, I know we all put him there, I for one, among all people realize this, that no one ah "knew" what the heck they were doing, or why, an absurd thing, that kind of injustice to such a loving, and charming, and absolutely adorable human being.

In that sense, I AM Jewish already, so maybe I'll be ok.

I'll tell you what - if you can guarantee me, and you just might be able to, as a Jewish person of Jewish persuasion, since you really in the final analysis have access to the same thing (if you eat it, and don't just know ABOUT it), the same "tree" of life in effect - that if I were to study Judaism, that I can't NOT discover the most magnitifcent joke of all time, ever, at the end of time in eternity with God, then I could be persuaded to integrate it, even if only to better get to know my own best friend, and the best human being ever to walk the face of the earth.

But, there's a caveat! - if you don't even have the first clue about the person that I'm referring to, in terms of the love I have for him, and, for some utterly ridiculous or purely selfishly motivated, fundamentalist, reason (which has no love for me), and, in simply believing that I'm all wrong and only you are all right - your aim being to somehow undo my Christian orientation, to somehow change or alter my own inner joy and loving relationshipw with G through JC, from that "grokking" I have, and then ah switch me, FROM being a Christian, TO being a Jew - regardless of weather I maintain my present gnosis and good humour or not, and regardless of your love for ME or what you think might be over here where I am - if GOD FORBID that were you're sole intention - then the deals off!!!

That would make you utterly insane, from where I'm sitting, and to be honest, it would make me cry, weep, because it, I don't know, would attempt to at some level KILL the God who now already lives in me, at least a bit, enough for some minor grokking of anyway if you or anyone here didn't notice..?!! Why would I want or need anything else, at all? I've got everything I already need. - except the joke, one which can be shared, the sharing of which (even by email) will promote the ultimate samadhi enlightenment experience, which will make them whoever "gets" it, want to immediately go HUG someone!, even if they've already been cooped up and untouched for years, to SOMEHOW, find, the missing love in the world, and make it known. If you can help me find THAT joke, then you're back on!

So, do you want to kill me then, and the loving, playful and happy spirit of my me-ness here - &/or laugh with me over the greatest and most absurd joke of all time, at the end of the age - and I must warn you that it's more likely than not, to be a joke about religion, in the final analysis, so I hope you'd be ok with that, if it meant the liberation of mankind in eternity (so it couldn't really be all that offensive to anyone of us, or the atheist, maybe it would have to be about religion AND atheism, while being entirely inoffensive, but funny in all the right ways..)

So I enourage you to stop and really think about this, about how you want to proceed here, because now that I'm totally stupid, you have NO IDEA how I might react or respond!

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
So, do you want to kill me then, and the loving, playful and happy spirit of my me-ness here - &/or laugh with me over the greatest and most absurd joke of all time, at the end of the age - and I must warn you that it's more likely than not, to be a joke about religion, in the final analysis, so I hope you'd be ok with that, if it meant the liberation of mankind in eternity (so it couldn't really be all that offensive to anyone of us, or the atheist, maybe it would have to be about religion AND atheism, while being entirely inoffensive, but funny in all the right ways..)

I'd always much prefer to hitch my wagon onto your train than all those smug types who think that their god is the one and only and that the answers are found in books, not in the heart. There are so many paths, and the journey is as important, if not more important than the destination.

I read your introduction thread the other night, it was magnificent. I'm in a very dark place right now, but as the glorious Kailassa's signature states, there is always a crack where the light can get through and that little sliver of light can make me giggle and roll when it wants me to. For now though, I have to stay in the dark, it is where I belong, but knowing the light is there....well...enough about me...don't change, on anyone's account, only change because you want to, and if you don't want to I for one won't ever judge you, because from where I am sitting, you are beautiful as you are...

A song for you...from one Fool to another...and anyone else who needs it...

www.youtube.com...

Bless YOU.

Ok, I could almost hear you going oh _t what the heck am I to say to that, so I'll try to let you off the hook here, to a degree..

Instead of continuing to post more "facts" ABOUT it, or even happy Jewish lovers of God singing (as good as that is, don't get me wrong that was a good)

tell us about YOUR love of God as a Jewish man. Speak to us, authentically, from your own perspective, no facts about, just the love of as you see it and experience it, and then maybe at the end tell us why.

Same thing with the gnostic guy - just who are YOU, what has this made you into, as a human being.

Everything else isn't the real thing, just a simulation of it, but it could be so far removed in our own felt experience, that it allows us to remain at arms length from the very thing we profess to love - who's the who that is the spirit of God, the same spirit who lives in us all, where some are more or less aware of it than others.

This was a thread about emptiness and nirvana, about Heaven, about love, but it turned into something else, a platform to PROVE something, and I've been playing that game myself, but it's started to get really boring and I can tell that the reader is getting fed up with it - he wants ACTUAL gnosis, or whatever the Jewish equivalent is to that.

Why can't we talk of heaven, not just about it, but in terms of the THING we're wanting to realize, because that Adi Da character is starting to look more appealing to me within the context of this ongoing and unending series of "my thing is the greatest and better than yours" stuff. It's getting boring, and it's just not fun anymore, in my experience - I don't control the thread by any means and you may, if you so choose just ignore this post.

reply to post by seeyounexttuesday


OMG!

Did you just say, that you can "giggle and roll", at will?!! but, that you've decided you need to remain in the dark, peering at a crack of light?!!

You're pretty funny!

So from OUR perspective then - you, the comedian here, are sitting there in a VERY dark box cracking jokes, trepidatiously and in fear of the light out here where you have us giggling and rolling at the absurdity of it all. Meanwhile, you are bragging about being able to be out here with us, outside of your dark box, any time you want - but you're not coming out!

Oh dear Lord!

And you are most welcome, and honest to God I love you too, and I've been getting very depressed and almost angry lately, at everyone's ah just mindlessness and lack of lovingkindness, and the almost hideous selfishness, starting with my OWN!, but that's just me being angry at me really and taking it out unfairly on "them", or is it? Maybe I am a dying breed, in which case I'd better take care of myself better and make sure that I quit smoking, because you guys might need me to be here in this sphere with you, loving you loving me, as a crack of light in the darkness. Each of us are like that, cracks of light in the darkness afraid to shine, assuming, incorrectly, that it's not all up to us, and that each man, or woman, is not a nation or even a type of universe unto him/herself.

Bless me you say? No, bless you for saying bless me. You are the first person here to acknowledge my love for you, and for all people in the end, and no I'm not pretending I'm Jesus again!

If anyone thinks there is a special people in the 'eye of god' they too have fallen for a attribute of flesh...which is pride.

There is no 'chosen ones'...unless you include ALL people in that 'chosen lists'.

The idea that there is 'special people' has caused war and division and pride to rule.

Originally posted by Tamahu
To me the Masculine and Feminine are equal. Now it is perfectly fine for a Religious devotee to choose one or the other as their main source of Inspiration, so long as they at least have it in "the back of their mind" so to speak, that the two are equal. Philosophically, we can't say that one ultimately preceded the other. They are both co-emergent and were never separate, from the aspect of the Non-Dual Primordial.

Agreed. They are reflections/manifestations of certain aspects of nature. It WOULD get pretty boring if everyone were androgyne, right? Diversity is a gift, embrace it Physically speaking, the fine line between male and female (interspecies) is indeed very fine. That too, however, depends on the scale and perspective we're talking about.

On this whole guru thing.. I think that a teacher with any real significance doesn't need to pose as a guru, only to act as a medium between the teachings and the people who're learning. I'm highly dubious about any self-reclaimed "guru" who requires worship.

But as I said, this whole thing is kind of a passé, and we need to step into the space age.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


ummm, if youre gonna take that attitude, and you feel you already have the complete truth, without any desire left to continue investigating - especially the most ancient and central of all religions - Judaism (and no, christianity has very little to do with Judaism) than i guess i should let you be.

Ultimately its a matter of logic. The only great joke i can make out is your assumption that Judaism couldnt alter your understanding of G-d and creation.

So.. You sound like an old guy. 50s + i assume (based on what you wrote in another thread). Generally, at your age, which is probably the culmination of a life long search for knowledge and truth, you feel you have found it. Its understandable that you dont feel any need or curiousity to know anything more. And i wouldnt want to upset your very deep emotional attachment to Jesus. My sister is like you. She ignores or dispels the esoteric wisdom of Judaism, and Torah and kabbalah, because she simply cant integrate it. She feels like she would be killing a part of herself. And its hard. I understand. When you dont have anything, like i did; who didnt believe a word of the christian tradition, and who certainly understood the gnostic nature of it, i rejected it. Torah and Judaism became something very different, very real and authentic that i feel the christian world had stolen from me. But, that was me. My brother also has joined me in this understanding. Im not a Jew, but a gentile. Ive said this numerous times before. I was born a Roman Catholic, and at around 16 rejected it. Floated around thoesophy, and buddhist, gnostic, and hindu ideas until 21, when i discovered Kabbalah and Judaism. But in the case of people who have a deep emotional attachment to this figure and construct - namely, Jesus..I dont have any desire to add to their worry. I respect my sisters catholicism even though i entirely disagree with it. Nonetheless, she has a very Jewish moraity and spirituality. She often takes and appreciates the spiritual advice i give her. Theres still much connection between her and I, and i know G-d wants me to take this attitude. Better that she be happy, and serve G-d (even in a wrong way) than i create in her any deep confusion.

I am young - 25. Been studying religious philosophy since 16. Judaism since i was 21. I spend a copious amount of time each day in study. Not just Judaism, but many other traditions aswell. I also study political science at university - full time. So...It appears we are two very different people with two very different attitudes towards the subject of truth. You think it can be arrived at without knowledge, or study. And i feel thats the very way one is led to it. All i can say is that im fortunate and greatful for my yearning in this area. Even though i do have a complete understanding of Judaism, and i 100% embrace it. Im not afraid. I am completely 100% convinced in this truth that i can study other traditions no problem or with any concern that they will move me in any way from my beliefs. I guess thats the power the Torah can give one.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
OMG!

Did you just say, that you can "giggle and roll", at will?!! but, that you've decided you need to remain in the dark, peering at a crack of light?!!

You're pretty funny!

So from OUR perspective then - you, the comedian here, are sitting there in a VERY dark box cracking jokes, trepidatiously and in fear of the light out here where you have us giggling and rolling at the absurdity of it all. Meanwhile, you are bragging about being able to be out here with us, outside of your dark box, any time you want - but you're not coming out!

Hahahaha...You're rather funny yourself

There are two issues at play here, firstly, in regards to the light, I do not stay in the dark through fear, but through choice, it is where I am of most use, but that is not really relevent at this juncture. My trepidation at revealing too much is another issue and pertains to my 'real' life, in that there are those that I would rather not see me here, namely the father of my son, and because he may be looking, I try, though not always successfully, to keep a low profile...but for your benefit, because you're fab and I so admire your honesty...I will be back shortly without said box and I will answer the rest of your post out in the open, warts and all...because believe me, in my time here on ATS, I have made a twat of myself almost as often as I have in 'real' life...and I can always get another box...as long as, according to the T&C of this site, I don't use any of them to talk to myself I can have as many as I like.

Back shortly. Ta ta for now

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Thats sort of an ignorant stand point to take

Read this post i made on cosmology Here

Im not sure if you have a history of reading these subjects before, but it goes to the very root of the difference between Judaism and the Nations - or the philosophy you subscribe and adhere to. See Aldous Huxleys
The Perennial Philosophy

This is a very serious subject. It includes every religious tradition, EXCEPT Judaism. Judaism has always argued something different, and that post on cosmology i made attempts to explain why Judaism has different theological beliefs and why rejection of the attitude that Tamahu has defended, namely, this dualism, of the effect being as primary as the cause, and therefore worthy of worship aswell, is logically rejected.

The fact is. Judaism honors the divine energies G-d established, whereas hindu and gnostic thought, do not.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Back again, out of the box and unlike seeyounexttuesday, this one is me in all my glory, for what that may be worth...this is the profile where I am most myself, and where all my (honest) mistakes have been made on the path of trying to get 'my little light' to shine....so back to the case in point...

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
Each of us are like that, cracks of light in the darkness afraid to shine, assuming, incorrectly, that it's not all up to us, and that each man, or woman, is not a nation or even a type of universe unto him/herself.

I am not afraid to shine at all, but like you, I see no point in it unless it is to bring warmth to others. Wherever I go, if I sit in the park, stand at the bus stop, people come to me, and I listen to them, I don’t talk all that much myself (until you have known me for a good five years, or thereabouts, then I don’t shut up hehe), but I am a good listener. Now, nice, respectable people, tend to look down their noses at me, I’m a bit scruffy, highly opinionated, swear profusely and generally don’t give a #. If it’ll break the tension, I will gladly tell a room full of people that I wet the bed almost every night until I was thirteen. So the people that approach me to pass the time of day, are generally not what you would call the cream of society, I have at times described myself as a freak magnet, but you know how it goes, it takes one to know one, but they are the ones most in need of someone to listen, or in need of a laugh, a kind word, or a hand to hold. And it is nothing to me, half an hour of my time, and I think more often than not, I get much more of it than they do.

I used to work with the loveliest, little sparrow of a man, who like you had escaped abuse, but witnessed almost all of his siblings and cousins being abused either physically or sexually. When he found out his brother, who had been abused by his father, was molesting his own daughter, he turned him into the police. My friend rather than being hailed as a hero by his family was turned out on the street and cut off from them. On a night, he used to come to me and we would talk for hours, and then he would ask for a hug and sometimes he just didn’t want to let go, he just wanted to be held because no one ever had, not without their being some condition to it, or some eventual cost. He is also one of the very, very, very few people who has ever stood up for me, and I will love him to bits for as long as I live.

I don’t seek enlightenment, I come to threads like this to look for the back doors, the secrets, the ways and the means, and I spread them about, that is all. I stay at the bottom of the heap because, the way I figure it, if we’re not all on the way up, then none of us are going anywhere. We are all in this together, whether we, or they, like it or not. I have a son, and I feel it is my duty to him, to provide him with the best example that I possibly can and I do that by trying to be the best that I can. And also, his father claimed to be enlightened, and in all honesty if that is what enlightenment is, they can keep it.

I hope that helps clarify a little, and if not, it helped me in a way so all is good with the world.

Take care, and if you don't see me around, it doesn't mean I'm not

reply to post by NewAgeMan


There is a Death declared in all the Great Traditions.-AD The Price of Grace is the Sacrifice of Narcissus.
The Perennial Philosophy
The Real Truth Examines Itself