A question I have towards all religious people!

reply to post by Somehumanbeing


You called the name "troll". but is that not an outburst directed towards your insecurities of your own beliefs? I mean, what the response you are rebuking to is true from my own experiences with peoples that are Christian, Agnostic, Atheist, etc. You live life and you learn it.

reply to post by XxRagingxPandaxX


oooh fun topic!

A lot has changed in the past 30 years in the US. Everything from morals, business ethics, and common courtesy has been in a downward spiral. In order to break away from oppression, nationalistic ideology, and decaying standards of living is to establish an individuality and personal moral foundation by studying religion and acknowledging your creator... otherwise... you're slaves to the system.

reply to post by kimish


Negative. I am well aware my belief of my lack of religious beliefs has a chance of being proven wrong. With my beliefs, I do not propagate statements of generalisations of every religious individual under the same attributes as the individual did so with atheists. The OP asked a question, and though while I was well aware it would perhaps fuel emotional outbursts from both sides, i decided to join anyway. This is my doing, yes.

I rebuked the individuals statement because it functioned merely as a non-contributory emotional outburst. In the end I ended up doing the same thing the individual was, by being non-contributory and instead engaging in debate regarding each others agendas. This is my doing, yes.

I still stand by my statement regarding his status as a troll, derived from his initial non-contributory statements intended to incite personal replies, and his initial post being this exact statement (Though an initial post count does not correlate with "troll" behaviour, it is exemplified in the material in the individuals statement) This thread seems to be diverting, as with most threads questioning either the atheist or the theist. I might cease contribution.

This statement in itself was non-contributory, you see? It is contagious.

I think faith can come in life experiences, there are times where you have nothing and view everything on a different stance. that is one way to come to religion.
You could also say this is just because people want something to lean on, but due to personal experiences and things my friends have told me i believe there is "god" (i dont fully believe in religion.)
if you look without believing you wont see, but if you wish to see then you will

double post

To the OP, this is a question of faith.

Did you believe people were going to reply to your question? On what did you base it?
The same goes for any religion. You believe in your religion based on faith. For faith is believing in the unseen, the unknown, yet you believe it is there.

You believe that you are alive. But on what criteria do you base that? How can you proof that you are alive?
There are many things in this world wich is based purely on faith, and not concrete evidence.

VvV

Originally posted by XxRagingxPandaxXMy question is how can you be religious? I mean, not having any concrete facts to support your religion only faith. What makes your religion so much more credible than another? There all supported by the same thing, faith.

Let me suggest here that you are proposing a false dichotomy: the dichotomy of "faith"/"not faith".

To begin with, the Jewish, Christian and Muslim religious 'authorities' and religionists claim to be worshipping God and to be teaching and believing the Truth.

The are not worshipping God at all, nor do they have any Knowledge of Truth.

What they are worshipping is a 'God' which they have Created in their own image (as either a Jew, or a Christian or a Muslim); that image being an image of either a "self" or a 'thinker'.

What they teach and believe is not Truth that has been Revealed by God at all; but, rather, the truth that they have concocted with the consciousness of the 'thinker'; a collection of 'truths' which specifically contradict the Revelations that have been Revealed by God.

If they were truly worshipping God, if they truly had a Knowledge of Truth, there would not be genocide and mutual threats of genocide between Jews, Christians and Mulsims.

Meanwhile, the secularists or atheists deny that they believe in God at all. But, in fact, they worship either the "self" or the 'thinker' as God; and the thoughts of the 'thinker' as being, for all practical purposes, equivalent to 'revelations' from the 'God'-'thinker'.

Karl Popper demonstrated that the fundamental assumptions of any conceptual, definitional system cannot be proven; but can only be accepted on faith. Thus, among the secularists, there is faith in the metaphysical duality, which is the origin of the entire scientific method; and, among the religionists, there is faith not in God, but in the assumption that the thoughts of the 'thinker' and its interpretations of the Revelations are fully equivalent to Revelations.

In other words, the conflict between "atheists" and religionists is a horizontal conflict at the level of the consciousness of the 'thinker".

There is also, however, a vertical conflict, which is a conflict between Revelation and human thought.

In terms of consciousness, that conflict is between the non-dualistic "observing consciousness" and the dualistic consciousness of both the "self" and the 'thinker'--as discussed in some detail in the Buddhist and Eastern esoteric traditions; which, in the Revelations of the monotheistic religions, is described as the conflict between the consciousness Created 'by and in the image of God' (Genesis 1:27) and the 'fallen' consciousness of the "beast of the sea"-"self" (Revelations 13:1) and the "beast of the earth"-consciousness of the 'thinker' (Revelations 13:11, Sura 27:82 of the Quran); more information about which is to be found on the webpage under my signature.

Mi cha el

Originally posted by XxRagingxPandaxX
First off i'd like to say that this is my 100th thread, if anyone cares

. Also i'd like to say that this thread is not meant to be confrintational, i'm just trying to find the truth. My question is how can you be religious? I mean, not having any concrete facts to support your religion only faith. What makes your religion so much more credible than another? There all supported by the same thing, faith.




please keep answers civil and un troll like.

I've been there. The difference with myself and them is I ask questions. I don't believe something just because someone tells me that's the way it is. Many people are brought up by their parents to believe in a particular faith. I was brought up Catholic. In 7th grade I told my nun to go to....that other place...and went to public school. Within a week or two I had a book on witchcraft. I never understood the Catholic mass until I studied witchcraft. I've been a truth seeker all my life. My mother used to say my first word was why.

I had Mormon neighbors for one long year. Most Mormons are generational. My neighbors were 4th generation believers. They didn't question anything about what they had faith in. Her husband was sent to Kuwait for 6 months. It gave me a chance to try talking to her. When he came back our friendship was completely stopped by her husband. One day the Mormon missionaries came over to see me. Oh boy, here we go. They laughingly told me they had talked to someone that believed Jesus was an alien from another planet. They actually laughed that someone believed that. When I pointed out that their church teaches their God Elohim is an alien from the planet Kolab they didn't believe me. I had the ammo ready and quoted it from their own book of Abraham or something like that. They were missionaries brought up to be Mormons and didn't even know what their church believed. They had never even read their own book. They didn't come back.

I was a Christian for several years. I bought into the rapture teaching. Then I started reading the bible for myself. I would ask so many questions I was actually asked to leave three churches. You don't question authority. I had a few people make comments about the sticker on the back of my car that said, "Question Authority." I got kicked out of a home church, held back from going on a missionary trip to Mexico and kicked out of a deliverance ministry because I couldn't speak in tongues. But that tongues thing is a whole book in itself.

People need something to hold on to. Something to believe in. Sadly, most people that have faith have blind faith. They're sheeple bah-bah-bah. I don't care what anyone believes, just as long as they don't try to make me into what they are. And if they can't accept me for who I am, that's cool. I just move on. Try living in a city that's super conservative Christian and all military. If they're not worshiping their deity, they're worshiping their commander in chief. BAH-BAH-BAH.

Then I found ATS and a couple other sites online. Now I know what I believe and most importantly, why I believe it. Most religious people can tell you all day long what they believe, but don't have a clue why they believe it. Anyway...thanks ATS. You played a BIG part in me finding my own truth. Not to mention quite an education in physics, astronomy, etc. And I even figured out how to download an avatar. And I learned a few new uses for a few bad words doing it. aagghh

Don't worry about others. Just worry about yourself when it comes to what to believe. Find your own truth. One thing holds true that Yehoshua (Jesus) said, "Love one another". It works!!! Love to all, Puzzle

While I don't consider myself "religious", I suppose in a pagan sort of way, I am. You've hit the nail on the head. If the center of a religion was a head of lettuce, it would still be a religion nonetheless. Faith is the bond, and is the very substance by which some people can even sleep at night, or day, whenever.

Faith is the driving force for all systems of belief. I always tell people "Keep the faith." despite whether or not they are "religious". Faith is the stuff that dreams are meade of.

No matter how wild a story be it in the bible, koran, a betty crocker cookbook, faith is where it's at.

Faith is the voluntary choice to breathe in a world filled with poison.

The bible has some good stuff in it. Not people running around doorsteps trying to convert every person they possibly can. Anybody can open the bible and find something that may help them through tough times etc.

reply to post by XxRagingxPandaxX


Religions and religious people exists because most humans are social animals. You rarely see one believing in one's own "religion". The task of the religion is to unite, as the word (as well as sanskrit word yoga) religion suggests. Religions unite people with the social body, which they imagine to be god, yet they do not realize it explicitly.

Carl Jung has proved that most people regardless of religions, cultural backgrounds, gender, race etc. share same symbolism in dreams that he call archetypes. Some of these are because of the inherent sociality in mankind, and are symbols of god, like circle, which symbolizes unity.

-v

reply to post by v01i0


Hey, love your avatar. I spent too many hours looking for one that said something about who I am. You accomplished what I "still" haven't done. Too cool!!!

And your reply to the post. I need to read more of what Jung taught. Maybe it will lead to another piece in my puzzle. It's a BIG puzzle. Thanks.......Puzzle

reply to post by Myendica


Please define "being spiritual".

You do not need to have faith in a deity to be religious. ie: Taoist, Confucianism, amongst others.
Religion is the manner in which you practice your spirituality. The dogma that helps guide you along that spiritual path that you follow. Your faith lies in the certainty of the choices you have made, pluralistic-ally speaking that is.

Originally posted by Puzzlemaniac
Then I started reading the bible for myself. I would ask so many questions I was actually asked to leave three churches. You don't question authority. I had a few people make comments about the sticker on the back of my car that said, "Question Authority." I got kicked out of a home church, held back from going on a missionary trip to Mexico and kicked out of a deliverance ministry because I couldn't speak in tongues. But that tongues thing is a whole book in itself.

Good on you for beginning the search. Bad on them for not taking the time to re-evaluate their own faith through the questions you posed. I feel sorry for those that treated you the way they did because they obviously do not have enough faith in God to believe that he may not act and call everyone him in the same manner. They never learned to question. Theirs is blind faith, led by blind blind masters. I have followed the same path as the one you described. I was fortunate enough to find a priest who encouraged me to question. So I did and continue to do so.

reply to post by XxRagingxPandaxX


I think it kind of akin to consciousness, which also cannot be proven to exist. We only know it through direct experience.

reply to post by XxRagingxPandaxX


I think this is a great question. I believe in a "higher power", I have hard time believeing in religion though. To me ALL religions have been started by some guy or guys who wanted others to do things they way they wanted them to. So they used "God" to scare people into doing those things.

Originally posted by XxRagingxPandaxX
please keep answers civil and un troll like.

This ought to be entertaining.

Originally posted by Orkojoker
reply to post by XxRagingxPandaxXI think it kind of akin to consciousness, which also cannot be proven to exist. We only know it through direct experience.

Precisely so.

The consciousness of the 'thinker' 'thinks' itself into existence; and the consciousness of the "self" self-reflects itself into existence. And this comprises the understanding of consciousness of the vast majority of people on the planet because those are the only experiences of consciousness that they have.

But there is, however, another--a third--dimension of consciousness which a very few people have direct experience with. It is referred to as the non-dualistic "observing consciousness" in the Buddhist and Eastern esoteric traditions; and it is referred to as the consciousness Created 'by and in the image of God' in Genesis.

The problem, however, is that the 99+% of the people who do not have any direct experience with this third dimension of consciousness VOTE that it DOES NOT EXIST.

For no other reason than that THEY have not experienced it.

Mi cha el

Because I've seen enough to be confident in it.

Simple enough.