U.K. cleric: Rape is impossible within marriage

Originally posted by joewalker
reply to post by Ophiuchus 13

 

Always with the muslim’s..

Controversial pastor Cedric Moss has vocally opposed the legislation claiming the amendment would create a "society of rapists." Citing the "word of God", Mr Moss argued that rape cannot be committed in marriage because the couple gave each other authority over the other's body and agreed to open-ended sexual consent in the marriage contract.

www.tribune242.com...

According to this bio, Cedric ‘graduated’ from Soveriegn Grace ministries in 2008, so you would think he would be up to date with Islamist, er, I mean Christian, fundamentalist thinking.

Which fits nicely with Pat Robertson’s assertion that:

I know this is painful for the ladies to hear, but if you get married, you have accepted the headship of a man, your husband. Christ is the head of the household and the husband is the head of the wife, and that's the way it is, period."

politicalhumor.about.com...

Speaking of Pat, and if by a mans friends shall we know him, brings us to someone who often contributes to his ‘news network’: Conservative political activist Phyllis Schlafly, who more than once has asserted:

Social conservative women believe in a strict division of gender roles as decreed by the scriptures. Gender is envisioned as a hierarchal ordering with God and Christ at the top, followed by men, and then women

And she would later remark:

By getting married, the woman has consented to sex, and I don't think you can call it rape.

en.wikipedia.org...

She's a sick bitch... I call it like I see it!

I'd say the same of Pat, if he spewed that sort of trash... Just another reason to turn off the TV.

people have got to stop obeying old men in robes. and we have to stop listening to old warmongers who 'represent' us in politics as well.

reply to post by joewalker


I think its just male aspect of humanity more less (cant only say islam for all religions have males who like sex, controll, power and some sneak and hide the kid touchin activities aswell). I personally feel no one has right to claim another person. THIS IS THE MAJOR ISSUE WITH MANY RELATIONSHIPS. IF we are GIVEN FREE WILL how can marriage eliminate it?

Males we have emotional issues too, imagine the guys who made metal chasities with keys and locks (what if you lost the key . Look at how much we feel THAT SHE IS OURS lol. The real chasity is a powerfull love and a sensual touch. Again its just some men dont fully understand the ladies and they behave like this. Those of us who know the ladies know what it takes to keep em on lock and it does require mental and physical stimulation and if your me add spiritual and she may still drive you crazy but atleast you can see that you drive her wild as well. 50/50 BALANCE

thast insane..thats total lack of any respect for a woman* i work with some muslims, 2 females, from bangladesh. they tell me, they cannot have sex till they are married..and usually, its a selected male. in thier case, thier parents made an exception. but..they must do what he says..they think its normal. i debated it with her..saying dont you find it wrong? being totaly domianted like that? told what you can and cant do anymore? wheres yuor say and freedom? her answer was its just how it is, normal for us. they think we americans have too much freedom, outta control, which in some manner she is correct. but having sex without a womans consent, or her interests..its just wrong. caveman took what he wanted* we are supposed tobe this great advacned species..appearently as humans we will always be barbaric at heart n soul* moreso at heart.
what good and fun is it, if she isnt being pleased too ya know? goes to show our vast thoughts and differnces with each major religion*
rape is wrong! married or not married...

reply to post by ziggy1706


Yes, Muslims are repressive. I used to "know" a Muslim girl that had an arranged marriage. Her parents made the mistake of letting her attend college, and she went buck wild! Me and some buddies greatly appreciated all the oppression she had gone through up to meeting us! She made her parents pay bigtime!

The sad part was that she knew that she would never see her family again. Her father was going to disown her. Her sister was already in an arranged marriage and living with the man. No one in her family was going to speak to her once it came time to follow through on the commitment. She was no longer a virgin, and she had no intention of going through with the marriage anyway.

It is sad that a family would give up their daughter, or in some cases even murder their daughter, over something as natural and beautiful as sex! It is even worse to think that the Muslim men that I knew in school were having all the fun that they wanted and taking advantage of all the promiscuous girls possible, and when it came time to marry into some family there would be no repercussions whatsoever?

Originally posted by Americanist

U.K. cleric: Rape is impossible within marriage

www.msnbc.msn.com

LONDON — A leading Muslim cleric has sparked controversy in Britain by claiming that it is impossible for men to rape their wives.
Sheikh Maulana Abu Sayeed, who is president of the Islamic Sharia Council, told a website that "sex is part of marriage" and suggested that husbands who commit such acts should not be prosecuted.

(visit the link for the full news article)

If a woman says "NO" and the man forces her, then that is rape, plain and simple.

Second line, much disgust.

reply to post by mydarkpassenger

If a woman says "NO" and the man forces her, then that is rape, plain and simple.

Second line, much disgust.

But she said "YES" to getting married to a man with a certain belief system. She said "YES" to the idea of marriage, monogamy, honor and obey, etc., etc. ( I don't know Muslim marriage vows.)

If it were really so simple, why would there be a discussion? Why would the laws have not reflected such a simple concept until the last 15-20 years. You know there was no such thing as "rape" of a male until the 70's, and no such thing as "rape" against a spouse until the 80s and 90s. Obviously it isn't so simple.

Marriage is a contract with duties. I agree that it is not a healthy relationship that requires rape, and before any violent rape happens a divorce is probably more appropriate, but some religions view divorce as a bigger sin than rape, so it is a dilemma!

reply to post by getreadyalready


Marriage does not mean you can have sex with your partner whenever you desire, please get this simple fact into your head.

Sex isn't a "duty" nor is it an obligation.

Originally posted by Americanist

U.K. cleric: Rape is impossible within marriage

www.msnbc.msn.com

LONDON — A leading Muslim cleric has sparked controversy in Britain by claiming that it is impossible for men to rape their wives.
Sheikh Maulana Abu Sayeed, who is president of the Islamic Sharia Council, told a website that "sex is part of marriage" and suggested that husbands who commit such acts should not be prosecuted.

(visit the link for the full news article)

throw the bum out of britian...why do you brits even put up with that type of garbage. and if he is saying this publicly, i wonder what he is saying in private. he is saying that british law doesn't mean a damn to him, and he is showing absolute contempt for britians people.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by mydarkpassenger

 

If a woman says "NO" and the man forces her, then that is rape, plain and simple.

Second line, much disgust.

But she said "YES" to getting married to a man with a certain belief system. She said "YES" to the idea of marriage, monogamy, honor and obey, etc., etc. ( I don't know Muslim marriage vows.)

If it were really so simple, why would there be a discussion? Why would the laws have not reflected such a simple concept until the last 15-20 years. You know there was no such thing as "rape" of a male until the 70's, and no such thing as "rape" against a spouse until the 80s and 90s. Obviously it isn't so simple.

Marriage is a contract with duties. I agree that it is not a healthy relationship that requires rape, and before any violent rape happens a divorce is probably more appropriate, but some religions view divorce as a bigger sin than rape, so it is a dilemma!

yeah it is real simple...it's against british law...if doesn't like it, throw him out of the country...end of problem.

Originally posted by Alora
So then it must not be possible for a wife to rape her husband? (read: sodomy) If the woman wants it, then the husband has to lay there and take it. Rules are rules, after all

I don't agree with violence. This is violence. But it is the truth. See, it is not done to them so they have no idea what violation is. Hey, I'll be all for it as long as the woman isn't later stoned to death.
And that is the problem here; you are talking about a culture who believe women are not human and have no rights.
OK wait:
nix that - take all their women away. Once they start raping each other it will be an entirely different story.

reply to post by getreadyalready

But she said "YES" to getting married to a man with a certain belief system. She said "YES" to the idea of marriage, monogamy, honor and obey, etc., etc.

Or she was given the choice between marrying a nice (lol) muslim boy and keeping her friends, family and community.

If it were really so simple, why would there be a discussion?

There shouldn't have to be a discussion but islamic leaders continually advocate treating women like crap.

Marriage is a contract with duties.

No, it's not.

I agree that it is not a healthy relationship that requires rape, and before any violent rape happens a divorce is probably more appropriate, but some religions view divorce as a bigger sin than rape, so it is a dilemma!

Well I'm glad you can agree that a marriage 'requiring' rape is probably not healthy and that a divorce is probably more important. There shouldn't be a dilemma, you're right. Only a sick pathetic ____ would advocate a man raping his wife.

If you're a muslim woman and want rights, find a new religion.

Originally posted by Death_Kron
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

Marriage does not mean you can have sex with your partner whenever you desire, please get this simple fact into your head.

Sex isn't a "duty" nor is it an obligation.

Yeah because if that were true, then we women wouldn't have to be disappointed when you are too tired, full, lazy, etc. We should be able to tell you to "get to work" as well.
See how nice we are? LOL
But seriously, marriage is not defined the same from culture to culture and the hard cores should really stay where the culture accepts them. Also they should let those that don't wish to participate to leave.
Better for everyone all around.

The idea of marriage is exactly so as to make it such that the man will not be accused of being a rape offender. Since by entering into a registered marriage union with a man the woman has given her consent, thus to turn around at a later date is not the man being in the wrong, but is rather the woman either with holding her promise to allow sexual activity between she and the man or worse she might be engaged in acts of infidelity. Rape is technically defined as being an act of "sexual intercourse conducted outside of the institution of a registration of marriage".

My own advice is that one should stay well away from sex. In my opinion sex [libido] is created by the MALE GAMETE so that it can reproduce it self to another generation of male gender offspring. I place MALE GAMETE in the same category as CORDYCEPS FUNGUS.


What if masculinity is nothing other than a disease condition ? What if life is entirely feminine and reproductive by PARTHENOGENESIS ? In the Bible the male gamete is referred to as being THE MARK OF THE BEAST and THE YEAST OF THE PHARISEES. It transmits sexually so I recommend staying well away from sex 100%.

During 2000 while celebrating the New Millennium I received a spiritual audioclairvoyent revelation from angellic beings [feminine] who told me to write down the following PRAECEPTAE CAELENIUM (1) From eternity to eternity, infinity to infinity, there be the one absolute. The One God there be no other God. Her names are many but she be the one true God. The one judge there be no other judge. (2) La deus nostra, notre dame, our lady, The holy spirit, the cause the maker Cosmica. (3) Angelic powers of truth and beauty and righteousness be sure to be loving her above with all your mind and with all your heart and with all your strength. (4) So as to be pleasing to her above therefore do not be serving the masculine. (5) Do not be and do not allow masculinity into positions of government. (6) Honour and respect the virgin pureness of the christae. (7) Honour and respect the Immaculate Conception reproductive process of the christae. (8) Do not fornicate or adulterate or sodomize. (9) Do not bully or torture or murder. (10) Do not lie. (11) Do not steal. (12) Do not be covetous. (13) Do not be jealous. Copyright (c) NGL 2000. AVE RAEGINA CAELINA LA DEUS NOSTRA CAELI LA VERA DEUS.

SHIMONO
JOURNAL

reply to post by CAELENIUM

The idea of marriage is exactly so as to make it such that the man will not be accused of being a rape offender.

Whatever. Maybe back in the day or if you are a follower of some nutty religion. I'm engaged and it's not so that I can rape the girl and avoid trouble. We have these pesky laws prohibiting that sort of thing.

My own advice is that one should stay well away from sex.

You stay the hell away from my girl!!!

What if masculinity is nothing other than a disease condition ?

I've heard this before. Most of my exes think this too. Protip: If that's true you and EVERYONE you know (I guess except the angels you apparently talk to) are a product of a disease condition.

In the Bible the male gamete is refered to as being THE MARK OF THE BEAST and THE YEAST OF THE PHARESEES. It transmits sexually so I recommend staying well away from sex 100%.

Good news everyone, this one won't be having kids!

Originally posted by CAELENIUM
The idea of marriage is exactly so as to make it such that the man will not be accused of being a rape offender. Since by entering into a registered marriage union with a man the woman has given her consent, thus to turn around at a later date is not the man being in the wrong, but is rather the woman either with holding her promise to allow sexual activity between she and the man or worse she might be engaged in acts of infidelity. Rape is technically defined as being an act of "sexual intercourse conducted outside of the institution of a registration of marriage".

My own advice is that one should stay well away from sex. In my opinion sex [libido] is created by the MALE GAMETE so that it can reproduce it self to another generation of male gender offspring. I place MALE GAMETE in the same category as CORDYCEPS FUNGUS.

What if masculinity is nothing other than a disease condition ? What if life is entirely feminine and reproductive by PARTHENOGENESIS ? In the Bible the male gamete is referred to as being THE MARK OF THE BEAST and THE YEAST OF THE PHARISEES. It transmits sexually so I recommend staying well away from sex 100%.

During 2000 while celebrating the New Millennium I received a spiritual audioclairvoyent revelation from angellic beings [feminine] who told me to write down the following PRAECEPTAE CAELENIUM (1) From eternity to eternity, infinity to infinity, there be the one absolute. The One God there be no other God. Her names are many but she be the one true God. The one judge there be no other judge. (2) La deus nostra, notre dame, our lady, The holy spirit, the cause the maker Cosmica. (3) Angelic powers of truth and beauty and righteousness be sure to be loving her above with all your mind and with all your heart and with all your strength. (4) So as to be pleasing to her above therefore do not be serving the masculine. (5) Do not be and do not allow masculinity into positions of government. (6) Honour and respect the virgin pureness of the christae. (7) Honour and respect the Immaculate Conception reproductive process of the christae. (8) Do not fornicate or adulterate or sodomize. (9) Do not bully or torture or murder. (10) Do not lie. (11) Do not steal. (12) Do not be covetous. (13) Do not be jealous. Copyright (c) NGL 2000. AVE RAEGINA CAELINA LA DEUS NOSTRA CAELI LA VERA DEUS.

SHIMONO
JOURNAL

edit on 14/10/2010 by CAELENIUM because: (no reason given)

I don't know about you, but if my GF says "No" I respect that because I respect and love her.

You do NOT force someone you love, and if it is not a marriage of love, then how in the hell can Allah bless and sanctify it? It is NOT a marriage.

NO.

A woman has the natural right to determine when and where and how ANYONE enters her body.

To force her means you DO NOT love her.

And that is no marriage under any GOD I can imagine.

reply to post by Americanist


I am not surprised by this in anyway what so ever, but who is at fault here, the husbands, the religion or the authorities for allowing it to happen?

You must take a step back and look at this as a whole, ignorance is one thing but immunity through religion is something else!

I am not a racist person, i couldnt care less about what people believe or what they do in their own time but there comes a point when you must evalute our level of civilisation and ask yourself under what circumstances does one honestly believe that this bull# is acceptable. It really does depress me at times when i think about what a wasted people we are. It is us who take one step forward and two steps back because at the end of the day we practically approve this type of behavior by not stopping it.

Religion, ALL religion needs to be forcefully removed from society, dont get me wrong I believe in some higher being I may even on occasion refer to that being as God, I believe there is a higher purpose and a force at work that is so far out of our comprehension that we will probably never understand it but MAN cannot cope with religion on a mass scale, faith should be personal not commercial and everyone can understand right from wrong people today dont have religion for enlightenment they have it for an excuse and its about time we removed that excuse and allow people to be accountable for their sins!

Thats what I think anyway

Originally posted by Death_Kron
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

Marriage does not mean you can have sex with your partner whenever you desire, please get this simple fact into your head.

Sex isn't a "duty" nor is it an obligation.

It most certainly is a duty and an obligation.

Why do you think governments throughout history have given special benefits to married couples? For procreation. More warriors, more tax payers. Why do you think religions have given special treatment to married couples? More little religious nuts. Why do you think gay marriage is so despised? Because it comes with gay sex!

If anybody believes sex is not the most significant part of marriage, they need to research a little further, or talk to a marriage counselor, or a divorce lawyer.

Money and sex! #1 driving forces in the world, #1 driving force in relationships, #1 driving force in divorces. And money is only important because it helps get more sex!

Stop diluting the subject. Sex is the #1 ingrained instinct in human beings. It is the most important part of our psyche, so it is certainly the most important part of our marriages.

Originally posted by Americanist
Try cramming those some place the sun don't shine, and you'll get a sense of how women have been violated in our society.

...o'my, what a hissy fit...

...do you think i am a male - or - is your problem that i dared to bring up the reality that christianity also condoned males raping females and, in some factions, still condones wives being utterly submissive to their husbands?...

Originally posted by Americanist
Remember, this is an issue of letting rape victims continue in pain while perpetrators remain free of prosecution.

...that is your interpretation of the op... i stated mine and in no way, shape or form are you forced to agree with my post, so climb off of your soapbox before you get a nose bleed...