U.K. cleric: Rape is impossible within marriage

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posted on Oct, 14 2010 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by Roufas
 


The situation is far more serious and criminal than this. Number one, in order for rape charges to exist within a marriage at all, it means, there is no love. Rape isn't about sex, its about violence and control. Of course relationships like that would be ones that aren't loving, they would instead be abusive.

There are many times where sex in a marriage could be endanger the woman's life (ie, she has had surgery or a baby, or a miscarriage, or a heart condition), or wellbeing. There are even couples that rarely do this at all, and are friends.

Any form of violent assault including sexual against anyone is a crime. Sexual penetration is RAPE, if forced.




posted on Oct, 14 2010 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by Roufas
Sex is indeed part of marriage.

Of course I am against any kind of "rape", but seriously, if you do not want to have sex with your husband, and want to keep denying him, just divorce him already, because there is obviously something wrong in that relationship (whoever fault it is).

Then be a happy single person.


Hmmmm I have to disagree quite strongly here. I'm a 36 year old English man and I feel the need to fill you in on a few things.

There are many reasons why a female can have reduced desire to engage in sexual activity. I myself have had to endure periods of time when my partner has had reduced libido.

But if you love the person you are with then working through the problem with honest conversation and if needed therapy can help.

Marriage does not give either the man or the woman the god given right to have sex with their partner on demand, unless both parties involved consent. A women’s sexual desire is not like a tap that you can turn on or off whenever you feel like it.

Women need emotionally coaxing into the feeling of wanting it, The physical stuff follows that.

If your attitude is that your wife should give it to you on demand, you are indeed likely to head for divorce. And you will end up a lonely single while she finds someone whom can appreciate her for whom she is and not purely for sex.

Korg.
edit on 14-10-2010 by Korg Trinity because: Spelling




posted on Oct, 14 2010 @ 10:28 AM
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Pretty disgusting comment, but hey, it's just another twisted moron spewing nonsense. When someone defends atrocities like this I find it difficult to see how they sleep at night - probably like a baby though.

Still, stuff like this seems to be an everyday occurrence now. I don't even find myself surprised or angered by it, it's more a sort of mingled pity and sadness.
Why these bad people have power and influence I don't know. Why people even listen to them I don't know. Can't we just look down on them and see them for what they are - and that is tiny. They are no one. They're not worth anybody's time.

This man's an embarrassment to the Muslim faith and its people . Strip him of his post and leave him to fester somewhere.



posted on Oct, 14 2010 @ 10:28 AM
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Originally posted by Americanist

U.K. cleric: Rape is impossible within marriage


www.msnbc.msn.com

LONDON — A leading Muslim cleric has sparked controversy in Britain by claiming that it is impossible for men to rape their wives.
Sheikh Maulana Abu Sayeed, who is president of the Islamic Sharia Council, told a website that "sex is part of marriage" and suggested that husbands who commit such acts should not be prosecuted.
(visit the link for the full news article)



Sorry, no cookie. Spousal rape is a crime in most States. I know Muslims think child rape and spousal rape are OK, but here in America, and we are a Nation of laws. I have been reading a lot of references to Sharia law, and I am not impressed. If we, the American People, do not let the Christians impose the Ten Commandments into our law, then whey should we let Muslims impose their laws, which, by the way, are detrimental to women and girls? To this American, the line of Separation between Church and State is perfectly clear. No religion in State government, and no government impositions in Church. As long as I breath, religion will not dictate law to me. I know that I am not alone in that thought, either.

wcsap.org...



Marital Rape: New Research and Directions by Raquel Kennedy Bergen With contributions from Elizabeth Barnhill (February 2006). In Brief: Approximately 10-14% of married women are raped by their husbands in the United States. Approximately one third of women report having “unwanted sex” with their partner. Historically, most rape statutes read that rape was forced sexual intercourse with a woman not your wife, thus granting husbands a license to rape. On July 5, 1993, marital rape became a crime in all 50 states, under at least one section of the sexual offense codes. In 20 states, the District of Columbia, and on federal lands there are no exemptions from rape prosecution granted to husbands. However, in 30 states, there are still some exemptions given to husbands from rape prosecution. In most of these 30 states, a husband is exempt when he does not have to use force because his wife is most vulnerable (e.g., she is mentally or physically impaired, unconscious, asleep, etc.) and is unable to consent. Women who are raped by their husbands are likely to be raped many times—often 20 or more times. They experience not only vaginal rape, but also oral and anal rape. Researchers generally categorize marital rape into three types; force-only rape, battering rape and sadistic. Women are at particularly high risk for being raped by their partners under the following circumstances:
* Women married to domineering men who view them as “property”
* Women who are in physically violent relationships
* Women who are pregnant
* Women who are ill or recovering from surgery
* Women who are separated or divorced

It is a myth that marital rape is less serious than other forms of sexual violence. There are many physical and emotional consequences that may accompany marital rape:
* Physical effects include injuries to the vaginal and anal areas, lacerations, soreness, bruising, torn muscles, fatigue, and vomiting.
* Women who are battered and raped frequently suffer from broken bones, black eyes, bloody noses and knife wounds.
* Gynecological effects include vaginal stretching, pelvic inflammation, unwanted pregnancies, miscarriages, stillbirths, bladder infections, sexually transmitted diseases, HIV, and infertility.
* Short-term psychological effects include PTSD, anxiety, shock, intense fear, depression and suicidal ideation.
* Long-term psychological effects include disordered sleeping, disordered eating, depression, intimacy problems, negative self-images, and sexual dysfunction.

Research indicates a need for those who come into contact with marital rape survivors-- police officers, health care providers, religious leaders, advocates and counselors--to comprehensively address this problem and provide resources, information and support. Those who work in batterers’ intervention programs should also work to eliminate marital rape and to comprehensively address sexual violence.
source

Rape Laws in my State, Ohio:
Ohio Code: Chapter 2907: SEX OFFENSES



posted on Oct, 14 2010 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by Americanist
 


Mine may not be a popular opinion on this thread, but I agree with the cleric about 85%!

If women expect monogamy, then men should be able to expect willingness to have sex. With my ex-wife we often had arguments about sex. I told her on many occasions that it would be simpler to leave the house, go to the bar, spend $20 on drinks and have sex with a stranger, than it was to have sex in my own bed with my own wife!

"Rape" has such a negative connotation. "Violent Rape" is a terrible thing, no doubt about it. BUT, if your wife is simply not in the mood, she should make the concession for sex as a part of her wifely duties. If she is unwilling to make that concession the majority of the time, then there should be no expectation of monogamy.

In my current marriage this is better understood and often discussed. My wife always has the opportunity to say no, but she does so with the understanding that if I am adament about the sex, then I am going to get some at home or elsewhere. The choice is ultimately up to her as to where she prefers I have the sex! With her? Or with someone else?

It isn't rape, but it is certainly coercion. I don't apologize for it. Sex with your own wife should be a simple and beautiful thing. It should not be complicated and stressful!



posted on Oct, 14 2010 @ 10:38 AM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


So your saying that if your wife isn't in the mood to have sex then you'll basically cheat on her and go have sex with a stranger?!?!

It isn't a wifes "duty" to have sex with her husband, what an old fashioned way of thinking!

Would you even enjoy having sex with your wife if she wasn't in the mood but did so to please you anyways?

I know I certainly wouldn't, half of the pleasure I receive from having sex stems from that fact that I'm pleasuring my partner and making her feel good.

I get very frustrated when my girlfriend isn't in the mood, but you know what I do instead of going having sex with a stranger and cheating on her?

Look at pornography and well you can probably suss the rest....

Edit to add: Yes, it is rape if you physically force your partner to have sex with you, if you force them mentally then thats called emotional blackmail.

I will add however that I do agree with you that at times the woman should make an effort to have sex, even if they aren't particulary in the mood, but I wouldn't expect them to do this every time, unfortunately sometimes you just have to deal with the fact that your not going to get any...
edit on 14/10/10 by Death_Kron because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2010 @ 10:42 AM
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Up until 1991, it was not possible to rape your spouse under British Law.

We've only just changed it in our culture, within a generation ! Oh how quick we are to judge rather than remember that it was'nt rape in the UK until recently, our culture saw in differently.



posted on Oct, 14 2010 @ 10:42 AM
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reply to post by Death_Kron
 


Why isn't it her duty?

I didn't say I would "cheat" on her, because that implies dishonsty. I said it was her choice. There are many occasions that I mildly want sex and if she says no, then I just go to sleep. BUT there are some occasions where I am adament about sex, and I plan to get it, and I prefer to get it from my wife, but if my advances are turned away, then I am going out and getting some, and I will be totally honest about it. Not cheating at all. Just a choice. Like I said, it should never be more difficult at home with your wife than it is at a bar with a stranger.

Luckily my new wife understands my sex drive and she is very sensitive to my needs, and I am sensitive to hers.

Still, if we vow to be monogamous, then it is understood that we also vow to be "willing!"



posted on Oct, 14 2010 @ 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by Korg Trinity

Originally posted by Roufas
Sex is indeed part of marriage.

Of course I am against any kind of "rape", but seriously, if you do not want to have sex with your husband, and want to keep denying him, just divorce him already, because there is obviously something wrong in that relationship (whoever fault it is).

Then be a happy single person.


Hmmmm I have to disagree quite strongly here. I'm a 36 year old English man and I feel the need to fill you in on a few things.

There are many reasons why a female can have reduced desire to engage in sexual activity. I myself have had to endure periods of time when my partner has had reduced libido.

But if you love the person you are with then working through the problem with honest conversation and if needed therapy can help.

Marriage does not give either the man or the woman the god given right to have sex with their partner on demand, unless both parties involved consent. A women’s sexual desire is not like a tap that you can turn on or off whenever you feel like it.

Women need emotionally coaxing into the feeling of wanting it, The physical stuff follows that.

If your attitude is that your wife should give it to you on demand, you are indeed likely to head for divorce. And you will end up a lonely single while she finds someone whom can appreciate her for whom she is and not purely for sex.

Korg.
edit on 14-10-2010 by Korg Trinity because: Spelling



I live a very happy life with my wife to whom I never have to demand sex to have it.

I fail to see where you disagree with me? You actually agree there is a "problem" in the relantionship when there is no sex.

I never said anyone has the right to force the other into having sex, as I said I am against rape? (we once again agree)

Lost in libido due to hormonal circunstances, or "holding" off due to health issues are completely different matters (and tolerable too) than denying sex to your partner because you either :

-stopped "loving" him/her (?)
-feels like having sexual relationship with another person instead of your partner
-your partner does not care to make your sexual life "interesting" and neither do you
-you are just holding off because you depend finantially on your husband (this one happens a lot...)


As you said women are more emotional and sex for them is much more about the emotions it can bring than the physical thing. Emotional part agreed.

What usually happens in marriage is that the sex starts becoming more about routine, physical, and less emotional, as time goes on. That usually makes the female counterpart to start losing interest in it, while the man stays just as interested as before.

So I think we actually disagree on something, and I shall fill you into this one mate! There IS a way of turning the "tap" on withouth forcing it, and that way is to never let her lose interest in you (this one is the hardest), and always have the "best" sex you can offer. Easier said than done I agree, but it's the price you gotta pay for avoiding what happens to 90% of married couples out there.

Sex is not everything, but it is a big deal mate.



posted on Oct, 14 2010 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Americanist
 


Mine may not be a popular opinion on this thread, but I agree with the cleric about 85%!

If women expect monogamy, then men should be able to expect willingness to have sex. With my ex-wife we often had arguments about sex.

[Snip]

In my current marriage this is better understood and often discussed. My wife always has the opportunity to say no, but she does so with the understanding that if I am adament about the sex, then I am going to get some at home or elsewhere. [Snip]


How many marriages is it going to take you before you realise that it's not all about you??

Korg.



posted on Oct, 14 2010 @ 10:46 AM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


It isn't her duty because no one has an obligation to have sex with you, whether your married to them or not; it's their body and they are the only person who chooses how to use it.

Of course it's cheating, doesn't matter if your honest about it or not, your cheating on your partner i.e. adultery

It's not healthy if your sex drive is that high that your prepared to go out, have sex with a stranger and ruin your marriage, I'd look at some sort of therapy if I was you.



posted on Oct, 14 2010 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 





Luckily my new wife understands my sex drive


What number is she?




She isn't an object and marriage isn't all about your sexually needs being met.
edit on 103131p://bThursday2010 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2010 @ 10:49 AM
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I am sorry for going a bit off-topic in this discussion, but I thought western relationships would be interesting to discuss.

About the clerics's opinion, I disagree with all my heart.



posted on Oct, 14 2010 @ 10:50 AM
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reply to post by Korg Trinity
 


Thats just shallow. Love doesn't require sex. Elderly couples don't have sex and they still love eachother. You never heard of wanking?! I think it all depends on the type of person you are. I'd sacrifice sex for certainty that my partner would stay with me happily forever, but thats just the type of person I am.



posted on Oct, 14 2010 @ 10:51 AM
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As soon as you see the words "Muslim cleric" you know that whatever statement follows is going to be diseased and inhuman.

Are those people capable of any kind of compassionate behavior - it all seems to consist of hatred, intolerance, and misogyny.

Truly an evil, but regrettably popular cult.
edit on 14-10-2010 by Retseh because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2010 @ 10:51 AM
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Meet Roxxxy, who may be the world's most sophisticated talking female sex robot. For $7,000, she's all yours


articles.cnn.com...:TECH



posted on Oct, 14 2010 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by Roufas

I fail to see where you disagree with me? You actually agree there is a "problem" in the relationship when there is no sex.


When you come across a problem, Is your answer to just give up?

Reduced Libido in Women is the most common sexual disorder and occurs in most women at various times in their lives. The trigger can be many things Stress, Low Self Esteem, Not feeling Appreciated, post natal depression (can happen years after baby has arrived) etc etc etc....

The biggest cause of loss of libido in women these days is pressure and being too tired. Since the demands on women have increased to encompass bread winning as well as child nurturing.

If or when your partner suffers from any of the above... Would you just bin the relationship and get divorced just because you didn't get laid???

Do you see your error??

Korg.



posted on Oct, 14 2010 @ 10:56 AM
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LOL! Well, I told you I wasn't going to be popular.

To answer the question, I was married to the first wife for 10 years, and the current wife for 5 years, and there are only 2.

To answer the "cheating" question. It certainly is not cheating! Not if I was honest about it before we got married, and while we are married, and I haven't lied the whole time. Maybe it is "adultery" but it is not "cheating."

To answer the "its her body" idea. I disagree. We are married, it is "our" body now!
Seriously, if there is one person in the whole world that should always love you and always be willing to have sex with you, and always be willing to listen or hold or forgive, it should be your spouse. Otherwise, why would anybody ever get married? For the tax breaks?

I would lay down my life to protect hers, it isn't asking too much to have her lie down for me a few times a week!



posted on Oct, 14 2010 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by jexmo
reply to post by Korg Trinity
 


That’s just shallow. Love doesn't require sex. Elderly couples don't have sex and they still love each other. You never heard of wanking?! I think it all depends on the type of person you are. I'd sacrifice sex for certainty that my partner would stay with me happily forever, but thats just the type of person I am.


And you are naive and inexperienced if you believe that 1) Elderly couples don't have sex and 2) That a traditional marriage can survive with permanent celibacy in place.

Korg.



posted on Oct, 14 2010 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by Korg Trinity
 





The biggest cause of loss of libido in women these days is pressure and being too tired. Since the demands on women have increased to encompass bread winning as well as child nurturing.



Libido is nice and appreciated, but it isn't necessary. Only one of us has to be "up" for the job to get done!

All the women I have ever known are very much into it as soon as we get started. It is just overcoming that instinct to say "no" that is the problem. Once they give in, they usually get turned on and have a great time.





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