ADHD doesnt exist

Originally posted by MR BOB
I do wonder sometimes if you should even be a forum moderator skyfloating.

This is a rediculous and idiotic thread with absolutely no research gone into it at all.

the kind of thing i would expect from a newbie 12 yearold kid.

I feel your pain.

And your contribution in defense of ADHD is?

[edit on 23-8-2010 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by Skyfloating


Really?

That is REALLY how you perceive this entire thread, and the questions pertaining to your research on the Bold Title Claim of ADHD Doesnt Exist?Because that is not how how I see it.

Your imaginary response to the other person, after asking you to do research, is not Ok, where do you suggest I start (logical), but skips that and goes straight into obtusity by responding, OK lets march over to that momma and drug her child. (illogical).

These are not personal attacks, they are not calls for censorship, they are not a personal problem to be held by others than yourself.

These are simply calls for research or evidence to back up the title claim ADHD does not exist.

Saying one does not see how such a baseless claim can be allowed to stand is NOT calling for removal of thread or censorship, it is merely wondering how such baseless claims can be allowed to stand, at least outside SKUNKWORKS, which is where this thread belongs if the OP is going to stubbornly stand in defense of the title and topic of the OP.

reply to post by Skyfloating

I think that it is acceptable to question the validity of the thread. and also ask how you can create a thread with such an extra-ordinary claim without doing any research at all, or presenting any evidence.

so i have to ask myself, are they really that stupid, or just trolling.
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also I really dont know much more than the average person about ADHD, and apart from a few freinds in high school who had it.

I would just be repeating what other people have already said.

[edit on 23-8-2010 by MR BOB]

[edit on 23-8-2010 by MR BOB]

reply to post by Annee


Yes, I experienced these problems with the other 2 children as well. Especially the 6 year old who had an odd character (like refusing to speak to any adult except me, her family and her current teacher) but had no mental illness. The school was still convinced she needed fixing which her mother, thankfully, refused. She grew out of it over time. Kids can be little odd balls - because kids are kids and schools aren't professional hospitals. It's a sad thing schools make these kind of decisions often without decent testing of some sort.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

I imagine the two sides sitting in the park.

So, your imagination is full of hyperbolic, mischaracterizing, propagandizing individuals, and medical professionals?

Interesting. It also seems liek you didn't read anything in my post, nor did you visit the link I posted.

How can you call yourself "open-minded" and educated if you won't even educate yourself on the process of diagnosing someone as ADD/ADHD?

Untill 7 years ago I held the same belief you have expressed. My thinking was parents who were weak and didnt enforce rules or punishments enough on their children.

Then I met my wife and her daughter....

My first impression was this lil girl was insane and should be locked up.

To me there is a huge difference between ADD and ADHD... ADD is the inability for focus on 1 thing for a protracted time regaurdless of how fun it is. My youngest son has a touch of this, no matter how fun or entertaining something is he will just up and quit in the middle of it and move to something else.

The difference is the H... HYPER.. She was off the charts.. behaviour, manners, mouthy, disruptions at school, throwing hitting screaming.. its a testament to how much i adored her mother that i hung around.

Her mother fought meds for 2 years ( i first met her when her daughter was 6) they tried counseling (what a joke) diet (another joke) and after 2 years of constant battles i said.. meds or im gone.

The change didnt happen overnight.. took about a month of adjusting doses but after that month it was like dealing with a different person. gone was the screaming, hitting, poor behaviour at school and general being a pain.

Kids are kids and some act worse than others, and I think that most schools are way to fast to want to put kids on meds (instead of doing their jobs) After watching this girl grow up (now 14 and off meds) i am a convert and believe in ADHD

[edit on 23-8-2010 by Gratheil]

reply to post by MR BOB


Mr. Bob, I love your avatar - it's mesmerizing

I'd like to point out that it's like ADD flypaper - I can't look away

:-)

I think that it is acceptable to question the validity of the thread.

so do I

or, if not the validity, I do think it's fair to ask: what was the intended purpose of this thread?



[edit on 8/23/2010 by Spiramirabilis]

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Kyouki
This also made me see the difference between being active, playful and not being to able to pay attention or a long stretch of time like his little sister; being a child, and the boy who was diagnosed with ADHD.

Yes - my daughter was truely ADD - - she couldn't even sit still to watch TV. The only thing she responded to was when Sesame Street did the fast flash numbers.

Her son nicknamed Tigger - - - was just very very active.

There is a major difference. Anyone who's worked with legitimate ADD kids - - knows that.

His school did try to force us to put him on meds. I saw no indication of him being ADD - - - because I knew the difference.

Yes - - it is being majorly over diagnosed and over drugged.

[edit on 23-8-2010 by Annee]

Your daughter responded to fast flash numbers? It's likely then that her brain was just very, very active, and she was simply bored in school because class was too slow and not keeping her brain active enough.

A lot of ADHD kids are just kids with higher level of brain activity than normal, we shouldn't be slowing down their brains with drugs to everyone else's level - we should be finding things that are fast enough or complicated enough to fix their focus.

reply to post by Kyouki


I was one of the fortunate ones who had an amazing pediatrician and school support. This was back in 1975 when it was still new and not in epidemic proportions. Also rare for a girl.

My daughter had zero attention span on a One to One. She required physical signals as in squeezing her hand in a One on One.

The school was amazing. They put a cardboard shield around her desk - - but also ordered extras for the rest of the class to rotate use - - so she wasn't treated as being different.

There was a study program (with a training trailer) in the state to study and work with ADD kids. Her elementary school got the only trailer for that age group.

It is a misnomer that all ADD kids are behavior problems. My daughter was actually the opposite. She was too polite and wanted to please. We actually had to toughen her up and work on her standing up for herself.

Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa
How can you call yourself "open-minded" and educated if you won't even educate yourself on the process of diagnosing someone as ADD/ADHD?

Where do I claim to be open-minded and educated???? Im anything but! Dont misinform the readers.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis

or, if not the validity, I do think it's fair to ask: what was the intended purpose of this thread?

To share an alternative view of ADHD - namely that such a mental disorder does not exist. Difficult to comprehend that someone might post an alternative view on a website for alternative views, isnt it?

Originally posted by Gratheil
Untill 7 years ago I held the same belief you have expressed. My thinking was parents who were weak and didnt enforce rules or punishments enough on their children.

Then I met my wife and her daughter....

My first impression was this lil girl was insane and should be locked up.

To me there is a huge difference between ADD and ADHD... ADD is the inability for focus on 1 thing for a protracted time regaurdless of how fun it is. My youngest son has a touch of this, no matter how fun or entertaining something is he will just up and quit in the middle of it and move to something else.

The difference is the H... HYPER.. She was off the charts.. behaviour, manners, mouthy, disruptions at school, throwing hitting screaming.. its a testament to how much i adored her mother that i hung around.

Her mother fought meds for 2 years ( i first met her when her daughter was 6) they tried counseling (what a joke) diet (another joke) and after 2 years of constant battles i said.. meds or im gone.

The change didnt happen overnight.. took about a month of adjusting doses but after that month it was like dealing with a different person. gone was the screaming, hitting, poor behaviour at school and general being a pain.

Kids are kids and some act worse than others, and I think that most schools are way to fast to want to put kids on meds (instead of doing their jobs) After watching this girl grow up (now 14 and off meds) i am a convert and believe in ADHD

[edit on 23-8-2010 by Gratheil]

You told your wife to put her pre teenage kid on drugs or you were out the door?

If it was me, you would have hit the pavement quicker than you could have said "ritalin".

Why not put the shoe on the other foot and ask proponents of ADD/ADHD prove their claim that it exists...

As it happens, ADHD is a psychiatric classification

Problem: there is no science in psychiatry.

Let me put that another way:

Psychiatry is a science-free zone.

Nada.

The basis of psychiatry is that mental 'problems' are caused by 'chemical imbalances' in the brain.

Ummm, there is actually no more scientific basis for the brain chemical imbalances theory however than there is for one that the moon is made of green cheese, or that Superman is actually real...

The next time you hear a psychiatrist expound upon the brain chemical imbalance theory, ask them, 'So, what exactly is the imbalance?' 'If there is an imbalance, what then is the OPTIMUM balance of brain chemicals?'

You won't get an answer (other than panicked bluster)...as there is no answer.

It has even been found that something like 80% of psychiatric "diagnoses" actually have their origin in an underlying physical problem ie. a genuine real world medical condition that can be treated holistically.

So I personally recommend that anyone with a "hyperactive" child really look at their diet, for one thing.

reply to post by babybunnies

...we shouldn't be slowing down their brains with drugs to everyone else's level - we should be finding things that are fast enough or complicated enough to fix their focus.

the drugs don't slow down anything

the medications prescribed for ADD/ADHD help one part of the brain communicate better with itself - that's all

people need to realize - this isn't about opiates or sedatives

isn't anyone even a little curious about the seemingly counter-intuitive use of amphetamines to help kids that are already pretty revved up?

reply to post by OurManInGlasgow


Because the topic of the thread is ADHD doesnt exist, not ADHD exists.

That may be why propenents as you call them are wondering why there is not more research being presented to say it does not exist, other than opinion. As since it IS a valid legal medical diagnosis as of today, proponents do not have anything to prove.

In debate when one brings forth a theory one is expected to back it up. Anything else is poor debate.

Originally posted by babybunnies

Your daughter responded to fast flash numbers? It's likely then that her brain was just very, very active, and she was simply bored in school because class was too slow and not keeping her brain active enough.

A lot of ADHD kids are just kids with higher level of brain activity than normal, we shouldn't be slowing down their brains with drugs to everyone else's level - we should be finding things that are fast enough or complicated enough to fix their focus.

Uh NO - not in my older daughters case. Her sister yes.

However - that would describe my brother who was reading the newspaper at 4 years old - - and had an IQ of 150+.

My entire family has very fast brains and tend to have high IQs. We were ALL bored out of our minds in school.

I've learned through meditation and yoga breathing to slow down my brain.

Believe me I know the difference between an active bored child - - and one who has ADD/ADHD.

reply to post by Skyfloating

To share an alternative view of ADHD - namely that such a mental disorder does not exist. Difficult to comprehend that someone might post an alternative view on a website for alternative views, isnt it?

oh Sky - you're such a smarty pants...

:-)

listen - I know you can do better. I've seen you present research before

seriously, enough research to make a person bleed from their eyes and then mentally gag

it's why I wonder

you gave us nothing but an incendiary OP title, followed by some blah, blah, blah - I think kids are swell

what gives Sky?

:-)

Ritalin - - - as I understand it and as the pediatrician explained it.

The area of the brain affecting the child in most cases is immature (not fully developed or slow in developing - - sometimes damaged) - - and often when they go through puberty the chemical change in the body affects that area of the brain. Which is why some out grow it. If there is actual damage - they will not out grow it. More research needs to be done to understand why.

So the brain area is underdeveloped - - and Ritalin speeds it up - - which calms the thinking.

It does sound weird to give "speed" to slow someone down. But its because an underdeveloped area is causing the problem.

There wasn't much of this going on in 1975. I had to do a lot of my own research.

reply to post by Annee


It's good to hear that you were this lucky to receive such support for your daughter! Even if it was back in 1975 people should still use it as an example for today. Not all kids have with ADD/ADHD have behaviour issues no - I think that's because of the generalisation of the condition like we do with all things these days.