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ADHD doesnt exist

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posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


Skunkworks would have only been appropriate were it not for the many real-life-people and professionals and authors that tend to agree with me.

You must have missed them in this thread.

All the in-thread and out-thread calls for this thread to be removed, closed, tagged as hoax, moved to another forum are attempts at silencing an alternative view.
Speak for yourself, regarding silencing opposing views. I relish opposing views, else where would a debate form?

I only suggested skunkworks, or another forum (still publically accessible so where does the logic of silencing opposing views come from?) based SOLELY on the TITLE and OP.

The Title is CLEARLY not backed up by the OP yet here it still sits, in the medical forum. Our medical associations as of this writing still consider adhd to be a valid legal diagnosis that exists.

No where in your OP did you offer any support for the title.

Nothing to do with silencing opinions.

Everything to do with forum decorum.




posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 03:02 PM
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This thread has brought out many members who say they either have children with ADHD or who suffer with ADHD themselves. Is there any reason any of us have to question the validity of what they are saying? Is there a doctor or psychiatrist on this thread who has done in-depth studies on this topic and is in good standing with the medical/psyciatric fields that can say he/she believes through extensive study on this matter that this condition is 100% bogus?

(crickets chirpping...)

I don't have a child diagnosed with ADHD, but I've seen children who have whose parents are lacking in discipline skills. However, I have also seen children with ADHD who have great parents who've done everything they can to curb the inattentive behavior and have resorted to medication only as a last resort. I would say their child has a valid medical condition.

I think the issue here isn't whether or not ADHD or ADD exist, it's what the hell has happened that has brought about this condition in the first place? Naysayers can protest all they want about conspiracy theories, but is it not true that TOXINS such as flouride, mercury, and pesticides cause some of the very symptoms associated with ADHD and ADD? The answer is YES!

Are these not toxins that nearly each and every one of us has been exposed to over and over again? YES!

In the U.S., are we not still allowing flouride to be put in our water supplies and living with the FALSE belief that flouride in our toothpaste is GOOD for our kids? YES!

Are we now seeing flouride prominently labeled as an additive in some of our BOTTLED water like it's there to benefit us? YES!

Are they not repeatedly spraying pesticides for diseases like West Nile Virus (who's victims are minuscule in number in comparison to the potential harm the pesticides cause) when these pesticides are proven to screw with neurological functions? YES!

Do our kids' vaccines contain mercury? YES! Is there any SAFE level of mercury? NO!

How much longer are we going to allow our children to be victimized by this exposure to toxins and then do nothing but argue about whether or not the results have culminated into a legitimate medical problem?



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by blupblup
 





I'm intrigued to know what other illnesses and diseases don't exist Sky? Please tell us some of the others you don't believe in... I'm sure others will be fascinated too.


Yes, ditto the above.

I would find that information to be quite intriguing, I'm sure.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 03:16 PM
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Someone once told me a story of a young girl who could not keep still at school and found it difficult to concentrate. Her parents were told she distracted the other children and needed to see a therapist.

After the visit to the therapist, they left the little girl alone and observed her. She just danced around the room. The therapist told her parents to send her to a dance school - which they did.

She later became a famous ballet dancer and earned a very good living from it. You see, the therapist looked at the individual and not at what the child 'should' be doing.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 03:27 PM
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reply to post by Xcalibur254
 


Pure baloney.

Years of medical research? Exhaustive laboratory analyses?

Pure bunk.

In the real world this is how psychiatry defines its 'disorders':

"What are the DSM-IV criteria based on? The committee of the DSM-IV meets in a committee room and by a show of hands, vote into existence the disorder of the day, and give it a code number in the DSM. That is how we get so many psychiatric disorders."

www.abacus-news.co.uk...

(DSM IV - ("Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition") - the 'authoritative' reference book for mental 'disorders' of the pseudo-science of psychiatry.)

[edit on 23-8-2010 by OurManInGlasgow]



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by OurManInGlasgow
 


That site is pure propaganda. If what they said were true, we could easily have a new DSM every years. Instead, it has almost been 20 years since the DSM IV was initially published. Do you know why it takes so long? Because research needs to be done. The APA doesn't just convene for a month and every day vote on a new disorder. They have been working on the DSM-5 for years now and are pushing back the date because more research and deliberation needs to be done. You can even go to a special site the APA has set up and follow along as new drafts are proposed. This isn't some shoddy work based on how a few people vote. The APA are listening to the opinions of the entire psychology community and are putting forth large amounts of time and effort to make the most accurate product they can. Is it perfect? No. But it's much more in depth than the site you posted would have you believe.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by NightGypsy
I think the issue here isn't whether or not ADHD or ADD exist, it's what the hell has happened that has brought about this condition in the first place? Naysayers can protest all they want about conspiracy theories, but is it not true that TOXINS such as flouride, mercury, and pesticides cause some of the very symptoms associated with ADHD and ADD? The answer is YES!


Absolutely. I recall the dramatic improvement of my mood back when my dental fillings were removed a decade ago. All my fatigue dissappeared overnight.

It was such a big change that I thought to myself: "I would have never guessed that the solution to all my problems lie in my teeth".



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by OurManInGlasgow
 


That site is pure propaganda. If what they said were true, we could easily have a new DSM every years. Instead, it has almost been 20 years since the DSM IV was initially published. Do you know why it takes so long? Because research needs to be done. The APA doesn't just convene for a month and every day vote on a new disorder. They have been working on the DSM-5 for years now and are pushing back the date because more research and deliberation needs to be done. You can even go to a special site the APA has set up and follow along as new drafts are proposed. This isn't some shoddy work based on how a few people vote. The APA are listening to the opinions of the entire psychology community and are putting forth large amounts of time and effort to make the most accurate product they can. Is it perfect? No. But it's much more in depth than the site you posted would have you believe.


Propaganda??

Stop, you're making me laugh xcalibur..!!

Let's see, is the quotation from the DSM IV itself propaganda?

"“There are no laboratory tests, neurological assessments, or attentional assessments that have been established as diagnostic in the clinical assessment of Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder.”

(DSM-IV-TR page 88)

Ummm, so why haven't there been any lab tests, neurological assessments or attention assessments established as diagnostic?

It couldn't be because psychiatry is a bogus pseudo-science and there is no scientific evidence of ADHD...?



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 03:45 PM
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I went to grammar school from 1960 to 1966. I don't ever recall seeing any hyper kids in class. Never. There were special classes. I was in advanced classes most of my life. I went to a public high school for like a month, and there were hyper kids there. Then I got into a private high school. I went to private schools, so may be they were out there, I just wasn't exposed to them.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 03:47 PM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


The header of this Forum reads:



This forum is dedicated to the discussion of conspiracies, cover-ups and scandals that are related to big pharma corruption and government involvement in manipulating health care. Topics may also delve into alternative treatments and breakthroughs not mentioned in mainstream media


If you think it belongs elsewhere, file an official complaint. I dont Moderate the Medical Forum nor am I posting here as a Moderator. Nor do I agree that this belongs anywhere else than in the Forum on Medical Conspiracies.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by zedd1
Someone once told me a story of a young girl who could not keep still at school and found it difficult to concentrate. Her parents were told she distracted the other children and needed to see a therapist.

After the visit to the therapist, they left the little girl alone and observed her. She just danced around the room. The therapist told her parents to send her to a dance school - which they did.

She later became a famous ballet dancer and earned a very good living from it. You see, the therapist looked at the individual and not at what the child 'should' be doing.


And I put my daughter on a swim team. She swam 2 hours every night and meets almost every weekend - - from the age of 6.

NO - did not cure her ADD.

Ever wonder about the other thousands of kids that went to a therapist?



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by OurManInGlasgow
 


What it means is that it's based on a clinical diagnosis as opposed to the results of an objective test. Presently the most feasible way to make a diagnosis is through observation and interaction with a therapist. While there are some promising leads with neuroimaging more research needs to be done before it can be used as a diagnostic tool in this case.

And yes that site is simply pushing an agenda without looking at all the facts. They make it sound like the DSM committee meets once for a short period of time and all they do is vote. The voting doesn't take place until extensive research and debate is done, just like every other voting procedure. Let me ask, have you ever looked at the DSM, or read a psychology journal, or talked with members of the DSM committee?



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 04:14 PM
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If anyone thinks this dysfunctional behavior starts when they go to school - - It doesn't.

Good thing it was my first child and I didn't know any better.

Anything and everything she could get into - she did. She was crawling out of her crib at 6 months. We had to put a mattress on the floor.

We had to safety proof her room and put in a dutch door so I could check on her every few minutes. This was done just so I could get a few things done around the house.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater

Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


Now, seeing as you wish to convey you harbour a great deal of information about ADD/ADHD and its chemical 'cure', Ritalin

please explain if you will, why the US Armed Forces, for example, will not accept any user of Ritalin, until a qualified medical doctor provides it his written belief that the individual has not used Ritalin for minimum of 4 years ?


I googled one of my local Armed Forces recruiting centers.

I got the phone number.

Before I called I formulated the question, my child would like to enter the military but has taken ADHD meds in the past. What is your policy?

I called, asked the question, and the man I spoke with said the rule was one year off, and all medical records/school records for the time child was on drug.

He also said there was not really anywhere online this could be found, he suggested going to the website (the official armed forces of your choice site) and looking around.

I also know from the time I was 18 and enrolled, medical waivers are given to people they want, as I obtained one for my asthma condition.

When I want answers I go to the source, Not rense.

Now, after this has now been settled, what exactly does this information have to do with ADHD and its existance, which is our topic?



Now, if this is true, then i would like to see how Dock9 reponds too this. It seems to me that alot of people on this thread just don't want this too be real. These people seem to think that we love having adhd/add, like we are something special. Again, putting words into our mouths.

Some people think they know it all, even though they are not qualified in the subject, but they still seem to think we know how we feel. What are the bets that if tomorrow doctors turned around with evidence, and a test that add/adhd is real, then half of the people, if not most, will not bother with this thread. They would not even come on here and hold there hands up and say they were wrong.

Thats because alot of this has to do with there arragonce and ignorance on the subject of adhd/add.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 04:17 PM
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Being a scientist/physician, threads like this, and many of the individuals in it, often bring this comic to mind:

PhD Comics

Essentially, people uneducated in science reading articles written by people similarly uneducated in science tends to create an unrealistic, unscientific fervor, as we see by the posts here claiming there are no "diagnostic criteria" or research data in psychiatry.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa

Essentially, people uneducated in science reading articles written by people similarly uneducated in science tends to create an unrealistic, unscientific fervor..


Indeed, what you have actually just described is psychiatry. In psychiatry's own words:

“There are no laboratory tests, neurological assessments, or attentional assessments that have been established as diagnostic in the clinical assessment of Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder.”

(DSM-IV-TR page 88)

Ergo, no science.


[edit on 23-8-2010 by OurManInGlasgow]



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by Xcalibur254
 


Lol! Since when was scientific fact decided by a show of hands..???



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


You know... I partially agree there.

Kids have tons of energy to run around, climb stuff and generally play.

However if a kid doesn't use up that energy they are going to be unsufferably agitated.

I'm wondering if there's a link between adhd and not enough excersize.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by OurManInGlasgow
 


I posted the diagnostic criteria from the APA and CDC a few pages back. You should take a gander at it, as it explains the diagnostic methods a bit better. At least, it explains it better than taking an edited, out of context snippet from the DSM-IV.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by OurManInGlasgow
 


These are diagnoses made based on behaviors, not a skin swab or a blood test. While abnormalities can be found using neuroimaging as I have already stated, this just isn't feasible for most people seeking outpatient help. Most of these machines are owned by hospitals and are used at all times during the day. Therefore, the best diagnosis is going to come from observing the behavior by someone who is trained to identify specific disorders. While there are no objective diagnostic tests, there are tests that can help a psychologist with their diagnosis.




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