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ADHD doesnt exist

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posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 09:31 AM
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reply to post by Dock9
 


I'm still trying to find information to verify this, but I'm not turning up anything. I have tried looking for the 1999 Military Recruitment Manual, but the only links I get are the current manuals that military recruiters use, and there are different ones for each branch of the armed forces. Other than this, they're all anti-Ritalin sites making the same claim as the site you linked. Although, there are a few that claim it was the 2000 Military Recruitment Guide.

As for being labeled a Class II drug user, there's no such thing. First off, drugs are not divided based on Classes, but on Schedules. Ritalin and other ADHD treatments are Schedule II, which means that they have a medical benefit, but at the same time there is a risk for abuse. So, yes, if you take them you are a person who uses a Schedule II drug, but this means nothing outside of that. If it did, then anyone who has had surgery, or even their wisdom teeth removed, would also be a Schedule II drug user as morphine, oxycodone, hydrocodone, and most other pain killers are Schedule II.

As for the claim that the government discriminates against people on Ritalin, I once again can't substantiate it. I know for a fact that in order to work for the FBI you can't have used marijuana for 5 years prior to applying and 10 years for any other illicit drug, but there are no restrictions on prescription drug users of any time and I believe that the CIA has a similar policy.




posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 09:38 AM
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All im still seeing is Nutritional deficiency , heavy metal poisoning , trauma and subjective diagnoses based on the "norm" that has led to getting labled add or adhd.

not an actual illness or sickness ,

might be im to cynical but ive seen "nut cases" (pardon my french) young and old , and trust me more then most of them that have been diagnosed with add or adhd had something completly different that was bothering them , one of them being poor/bad diet for an unhealthy majority of their life.

i can tell you a story about my kid , he was inches away from being diagnosed a 3-4 letter syndrom because he was failing in school ,

we switch school and simsalabim he´s top of the class and lacking a 3-4 letter combination in his CV , he even said that he can finaly study.

so was it the school or my childs biological system that malfunctioned,,

you tell me when you find the "broken part" that is the cause for this "sickness or dysfunction" and ll gladly listen and review your case untill then im very comfortable with the reality that i know its all just humbug.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by Xcalibur254

These are just a few of the many studies that have been done on the pathophysiology of ADHD.


Thats a lot of writing there.

To make the point made in the OP, lets take a look at the very first sentence of the very first link you posted:



Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) is characterized by excessive inattention, hyperactivity, and impulsivity


What standards were defined?

If a kid refuses to be indoctrinated, does he then suffer from "excessive inattention"?

If a kid is more active than his dad who flops down in front of the TV every evening, is the kid hyperactive?

If a kid is more spontaneous than the fear-ridden mom, is it than "too impulsive"?



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 10:14 AM
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I’ve worked with child who was diagnosed with AHDH 3 years ago when I was still working as a nurse (domiciliary care, not in the hospital). The boy was 9 years old at the time, having a little sister at the age of 6 and an older brother at age of 12. I worked with them for over a year, 3 days a week and got to know the children very well. This also made me see the difference between being active, playful and not being to able to pay attention or a long stretch of time like his little sister; being a child, and the boy who was diagnosed with ADHD.

Of course kids are supposed to overactive, playful and somehow it’s not more than logic that kids aren’t able to focus for a long time on 1 thing. Kids are very open minded and interested in many things at the same time. The smallest thing can draw their attention making them shift focus instantly. I personally experienced it as if they thought there wasn’t enough time in their years to come to cover their entire mind spurs. This is what makes children very unique little beings, and also very interesting to observe.

However there was a difference between the 6 year old girl being a child, and the boy with ADHD. He showed the exact same behavior as his sister, with the exception that he often couldn’t cope with his energy bursts. He often stumbled over his words because he couldn’t control the speed of his speech, and even if he wished to sit down to eat his meals or watch a cartoon he just couldn’t. His mind was overactive which caused him to receive a lot more impulses than his friends or his sister leaving him confused; at the end of the day he couldn’t keep up with himself which frustrated him causing him to get angry and throw temper tantrum after temper tantrum. You could see he often wasn’t in control of the situation which his friends and sister much more often were. He’s been on several types of medication and the last known to me was Ritalin before I quit working there and it seemed to have a positive result; it gave him some form of control and focus he needed.

So yeah I can’t agree with ADHD not existing. It does exist, but isn’t the over-diagnose business not the case with a lot of mental illnesses? If you have a mental issue in Holland and you visit a shrink; 9 out of 10 times you will receive the Borderline diagnosis for example. It doesn’t mean people don’t actually suffer from it, but because the majority gets the wrong diagnose doesn’t make it non-existent.

I’ve been diagnosed with Borderline but seeing several shrinks and doing tests and research it turned out I am a candidate for ADD instead of Borderline. I need to keep thinking and single-target focusing to make sure my world doesn’t collapse, and it’s very tiring combined with all the other symptoms related. It does serve me well in terms of study and research papers as I get obsessed with subjects, but it also causes me to end up frustrated because ‘peace of mind’ is an imaginary thing to me. I don’t sleep because I often get my genius impulses late in the evening or at night causing me to get up and start doing something with it. I can’t ignore it, it drives me mad. The doctor concluded that it contributes to my research drive and high intelligence, but it doesn’t contribute to my health as I end up being a wreck going insane over it, resulting in a complete collapse. It leaves me nothing except having to start over again.

Does AHDH/ADD exist? Yes it does, based on personal experience too.
Is it a gift? Yes, but at the same time it is a condition as there as much down as upsides.

I don’t feel much peace and calm by the idea that children with possible ADD/ADHD might end up like me when they grow older because it wasn’t treated. But yes – not any form of condition should be diagnosed that easy like it done today; don’t fix what’s not broken, fix those that need fixing.

Sorry for the long piece of text; just wanted to share my experience regarding the subject



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


Now, seeing as you wish to convey you harbour a great deal of information about ADD/ADHD and its chemical 'cure', Ritalin

please explain if you will, why the US Armed Forces, for example, will not accept any user of Ritalin, until a qualified medical doctor provides it his written belief that the individual has not used Ritalin for minimum of 4 years ?


I googled one of my local Armed Forces recruiting centers.

I got the phone number.

Before I called I formulated the question, my child would like to enter the military but has taken ADHD meds in the past. What is your policy?

I called, asked the question, and the man I spoke with said the rule was one year off, and all medical records/school records for the time child was on drug.

He also said there was not really anywhere online this could be found, he suggested going to the website (the official armed forces of your choice site) and looking around.

I also know from the time I was 18 and enrolled, medical waivers are given to people they want, as I obtained one for my asthma condition.

When I want answers I go to the source, Not rense.

Now, after this has now been settled, what exactly does this information have to do with ADHD and its existance, which is our topic?



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by Dock9
Then there are those US Federal and State government agencies, aren't there ?


Now, you'd expect Federal and State agencies would be delighted to have amongst their employees people who are calm, organised, able to concentrate, etc.

And people such as yourself, Jay, claim Ritalin has provided you with those attributes

Are you able to explain, therefore, why US State and Federal government agencies have it as their policy *NOT* to employ users of Ritalin in sensitive areas involved with, for example, Homeland Security ?

Why is that ? What do US State and Federal agencies *know* about Ritalin and Ritalin users ?

IF those State and Federal government agencies refuse to allow Ritalin users into sensitive areas involved in security and other matters, such as Homeland Security --- it can only be because those government agencies believe and/or *know* that Ritalin users are indiscreet, right ? Believe and/or *know * that Ritalin users cannot be trusted to perform in the manner required as regards confidential informationa and dealings


Did you know, prior to this, Jay, that US State and Federal agencies have these concerns, this knowledge, this certainty ?

How many others did not know ?

How many parents right now do not know that their child will be refused by the US Coast Guard, by the US Armed Forces and others, if they have taken one whiff of Ritalin for the past four years ?

Is anyone telling parents this ? Do those kids know ? Shame, isn't it, if they have their heart set on joining the Marines -- because they'll be refused

So what is in that stuff that governments know will affect their performance even four years after it was last used ?

Why are drug users trying to buy Ritalin ?


You see ?



So, I called KY Office of Homeland Security.

The nice gentleman who answred had not heard of such a policy, but directed me to another office that deals with hiring, to see if they could answer my question. (He also said it was a first, my question!)

I called the Office of personell/Hiring, and this is the question I posed. (now yall feel FREE to call your own offices and fed and state to get the scoop),

"Is being diagnosed with/on medication for ADHD goign to preclude me from being hired for a state or Federal job with in your offices?"

His answer was no, and he had never heard of such a policy.

This was my state capital.

I am not a smartypants, I just happen to like real sourced information, not National Enquirer RENSE type propaganda.

And again, I ask what this has to do with proving or disproving ADHD exists, which is the topic of the conversation.

Now yall dont let me do all the leg work, feel free to do more than Im Feeling Lucky google search on this topic any time.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 10:53 AM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


I agree. Every mother I've spoken with that tells me their child has this cop-out disorder doesn't seem to have a problem feeding their child a steady diet of soda and candy bars all day. Then they complain the kid won't go to sleep at night, so he must have ADHD.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating

What standards were defined?



Why is it so hard for you to do research at even the most basic level?

Here are the standard criteria used by pediatricians and pediatric paychiatrists/psychologists. Note that it isn't a single event or symptom (must be a collection) and it isn't a single event (must be observed for 6 or more months). Also note that diagnosis isn't made by simply checking "yes" or "no", but by exploring the "yes" answers to see if there is anoither underlying cause.

ADD/ADHD Guidelines



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 11:04 AM
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reply to post by VneZonyDostupa
 


You posted Guidelines...

So, now all we need are GUIDELINES for a diagnosis that puts kids on mind altering drugs that permanently affects their brain chemistry? Is that ALL that's needed now?

REALLY?

There was a time when loads of scientific tests had to be done before the FDA would approve of anything to go into our bodies. There had to be a strict set of rules and parameters with a correctly diagnosed disorder or illness before we decided to numb our brains with mood altering garbage. It makes me wonder why illegal drugs are even illegal. With guidelines like the one's you have listed, I should be able to self-medicate on whatever I choose.

So now, a set of GUIDELINES is all that's needed in order to put CHILDREN on drugs? Have you lost what little of your mind that you have left?

You call this RESEARCH and have the nerve to ask skyfloating if he/she has done any? I could do the same thing in a heartbeat and have you on drugs by tomorrow. I can't believe the weakness that passes for science and the medical industry in western civilization. And here you are falling for it hook, line, and sinker.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 11:18 AM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 11:25 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Annee
How many times do I have to say ADD/ADHD is an umbrella label?




According to the DSM it's a Mental Disorder. "Umbrella Label" is another way of saying that as a specific Disorder it does not exist.


And Mental Disorder doesn't fall under an "Umbrella"?

Cancer is an Umbrella label - - until it is determined what kind of Cancer.

The Common Cold - - and Umbrella label.

There is not just One ADD behavior or cause.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 11:26 AM
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reply to post by PsychoX42
 


It does not take nerve to expect an OP to research such a bold claim as, ADHD does not exist.

That is stated as fact.

Yet, when called on it, the OP reverts to the safe, it is my opinion rhetoric.

And when anyone has mentioned this in thread, the response is, that is your problem, it is an opinion, you want the thread removed, etc.

I for one am a strong proponent of free speech, and have not seen any calls for removal, etc. censorship.

I HAVE seen calls for research, and members expression their own opinions on the way the OP was presented.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


I couldn't agree more, it's jus ta cop out for parents to not have to take repsonsibility for feeding their kids nothing but junk and making them sit in the house and watch T.V. Yet, even worse it gives the child something to blame for his problems. To me the only ADHD that their should be is in adults, when they've had time to settle down, but still can't and don't understand why they are so hyper all the time...



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by PsychoX42
reply to post by VneZonyDostupa
 


You posted Guidelines...

So, now all we need are GUIDELINES for a diagnosis that puts kids on mind altering drugs that permanently affects their brain chemistry? Is that ALL that's needed now?

REALLY?

There was a time when loads of scientific tests had to be done before the FDA would approve of anything to go into our bodies. There had to be a strict set of rules and parameters with a correctly diagnosed disorder or illness before we decided to numb our brains with mood altering garbage. It makes me wonder why illegal drugs are even illegal. With guidelines like the one's you have listed, I should be able to self-medicate on whatever I choose.

So now, a set of GUIDELINES is all that's needed in order to put CHILDREN on drugs? Have you lost what little of your mind that you have left?

You call this RESEARCH and have the nerve to ask skyfloating if he/she has done any? I could do the same thing in a heartbeat and have you on drugs by tomorrow. I can't believe the weakness that passes for science and the medical industry in western civilization. And here you are falling for it hook, line, and sinker.


Please do try to use a bit of critical thinking. All of medicine is a symptoms checklist. When I see a patient complaining of a headache, I immediately run through a battery of "checklists" to diagnose the patient. When did the pain start? Does light make it worse? Is your neck stiff? Are you allergic to anything? Does anything seem to make it better? Have you ever been diagnosed as hypertensive/diabetic/etc.?

These checklists are exploratory tools and are never enough to tender a diagnosis, which I made a point of saying above, though looking over your previous posts it's pretty clear you like to cherry-pick things and then go off into emotional rants, so I'm not surprised you skipped tha tpart of my post.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by Kyouki
This also made me see the difference between being active, playful and not being to able to pay attention or a long stretch of time like his little sister; being a child, and the boy who was diagnosed with ADHD.



Yes - my daughter was truely ADD - - she couldn't even sit still to watch TV. The only thing she responded to was when Sesame Street did the fast flash numbers.

Her son nicknamed Tigger - - - was just very very active.

There is a major difference. Anyone who's worked with legitimate ADD kids - - knows that.

His school did try to force us to put him on meds. I saw no indication of him being ADD - - - because I knew the difference.

Yes - - it is being majorly over diagnosed and over drugged.



[edit on 23-8-2010 by Annee]



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 11:40 AM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 





ADD is not about abundence of energy...and ADHD is not either (it is more based on impulses).

Its about being able to concentrate when needed and no not all children can do this, that is part of being a child.

Most cases are normal chidlren being kids...but there are some that have trouble intaking information and stayign on task. Im not saying they are mentaly ill or have a disorder...Im saying that these kids struggle in school enviroments. Im also not saying medicine is the answer...but in extreme cases some chidlren cant even pass their classes due to their inablitiy to concentrate and stay on task.


thank you for this

everyone, including Skyfloating, wants to make hyperactivity the centerpiece of this argument

he keeps claiming that high amounts of energy are a natural part of childhood

to his insistence that being an energetic child is not a disease, but a natural part of childhood, I must reply: duh

it's about much more than that - so much more

my time in school - from kindergarten on - was a nightmare for me

if I had a nickel for every time I was told (along with my parents) that I was a smart little girl, if only...

I was not hyperactive in any way - which is the usual story for the girls. They are usually labeled ADD - not ADHD for that reason

if a kid can't focus, receive knowledge, process and retain knowledge - and then later access, retrieve and actually use knowledge - there really is no point in being in school at all

all my time would have been better spent running away to join the circus

oooh - elephants and monkeys...

:-)

you know what I would like - more than anything?

that would be for some people to clue in and realize - your children could really stand to have you pull your heads out. Every situation is not the same, every child is not the same

I fortunately had parents that - though not recognizing exactly why I had the problems I had in school still praised me and defended me

my dad - bless him - went directly to the school and filled the air with a blue cloud of profanity when they complained about my daydreaming in class

an event not soon forgotten by anyone there

his argument was - she's special - and daydreaming is important

:-)

that's my dad

(my mom too - but with less profanity)

so, had they known then what they know now - I might have actually learned something in school

there are ways for a kid to learn how to work around themselves and with themselves while at the same time learn that they are also normal

and not stupid

also - if medication can help (and - it sometimes does) use it

we all spend the rest of our lives self medicating anyhow - let's call it like it is: pills, booze, Twinkies, sex, TV or even work - we accommodate our special needs and mess with our thinking and moods all the time

edit to add: had an ADD moment...it would have been a lot of nickels - a whole lot

[edit on 8/23/2010 by Spiramirabilis]



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by VneZonyDostupa
 


This thread has become a tirade against the medical establishment the same way as when a LEO abuse is posted; some broad brush all law enforcement.



Hyperbole personified. More and more becoming the SOP on ATS.






[edit on 23-8-2010 by whaaa]



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa

Originally posted by Skyfloating

What standards were defined?


Why is it so hard for you to do research at even the most basic level?


I imagine the two sides sitting in the park.

Sky: Wow...look at that kid over there.

Other: Yeah, its ADHD

Sky: Well...its just a little over-active, right? I dont believe in this ADHD stuff. I mean, look at the kid.

Other: Why is it so hard for you to do research at even the most basic level?

Sky: So what do you suggest?

Other: I suggest we go over there and tell the mother her child needs treatment. Here, I have some Ritalin with me. That should fix the kid.

Sky: I dont know. Giving a body at such a young age this really hard stuff is kind of overdosing, isnt it?

Other: Why is it so hard for you to do research at even the most basic level?

Sky: Im just saying...

Other: What is your academic degree anyway?

Sky: None, I just thought that maybe...

Other: Dont you empathize with that families suffering?

Sky: They look like they are having a pretty nice picnic over there

Other: I heard you volunteer to help out at this website...ATS...you shouldnt be a Moderator there anymore!

Sky: Umm....OK. What does that have to do with anything?

Other: Be quiet now! Do your research! The kid has a mental disorder and requires treatment!



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by Neet413
reply to post by Skyfloating
 


I agree. Every mother I've spoken with that tells me their child has this cop-out disorder doesn't seem to have a problem feeding their child a steady diet of soda and candy bars all day. Then they complain the kid won't go to sleep at night, so he must have ADHD.


My daughter was on a strict organic diet. No sugar - no food color - no additives - etc.

And the support group I belonged to - - subscribed to healthy diet also.

So there goes your theory of Every mother.

[edit on 23-8-2010 by Annee]



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


do you even read what you type?



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