New Hoagland and Greer Interview! Disclosure is coming!

reply to post by rajaten


Very good post. I couldnt agree with you more.

Well i always thought Hoagland was a straight shooter, but i guess in all reality hes just another disinformation agent. The more i dig into his background and and see that Bill Cooper actually accused him of being involved in Project Enable along with Stieber and many others and produced a CIA document to prove it, but of course that was quickly dicredited. So maybe Cooper did have it right, Hoagland and Greer are both shady at best, spoon feeding us what they are told to, whether they were threatened to do so or not doesant matter, they are here to muddy the waters, and that seems to be there job, there never will be a discloser, at least not anytime in the near future, but they sure will continue to feed us BS, just to keep us busy. Youll know when someone has anything valuable to say, because it will only be told once, and they will end up dead.

If anyone is interested in the reality of disinfo agents and organised attacks on conspiracy theorists, you may enjoy this new video by Alex Jones from 10:00 minutes onwards. Just a thought.




[edit on 16-8-2010 by rajaten]

reply to post by rajaten


Is this video of a paranoid fear monger meant to place further merit in Greer and Hoagland's ramblings? I'm not quite following your rationale for posting this video and how it pertains to the topic you started in your Op.

IRM

ATS is what YOU MAKE IT!

Originally posted by rajaten
Wow, just wow. Look at what has happened to my thread.......no respectful debate or any real analysis of the topics and issues at hand.

You have offered no debate or analysis of the topic. You have simply endorsed the two individuals whilst making broad and baseless accusations at other members.

Just look at how comprehensive the smear campaign and disinfo is at work on this thread alone.

post by rajaten

Welcome to one branch of the very much alive and active disinfo campaign. Hope you can put aside their confusion and enjoy the content of the video.

post by rajaten

I predict the agents of disinfo in ATS admin will move this thread to the hoax bin within 48 hours as it has just hit the front page of the site. What do you think? Maybe? Maybe not?

post by rajaten

You have posted 19 times in this thread, and not one of them discusses any of the material in the Videos, nor any of the criticisms raised regarding your sources. You have offered no analysis of the content or debate regarding the material. All you have done is promote and defend your sources and attacked or labeled opposing views as disinfo.
Here are all your posts on this thread, note that there are double posts in there that further shows the appalling level of quality your participation provides.
www.abovetopsecret.com...&mem=rajaten

I have offered analysis and research on Greer, that you have ignored entirely.
So where is the debate?
Where is the analysis?
You don't provide any at all. No wonder the thread is what it is. All you do is make appeals to the length of time that Greer and Hoagland have been active in this field.
It is almost like you are an apologist for this pair.

haha well you've got to give some credit to two people who have collectively dedicated more than 50 years of their lives to exopolitics, disclosure and secret space agendas.

post by rajaten

ts a great shame to ignore 50 years of research and effort due to a few imperfections.

post by rajaten

In most fields, success is measured by achievement, not by longevity. Most people do things for long periods purely for the money.

How is all this negativity and fighting amongst ourselves constructive?

Define negativity and fighting?
If you define negativity as being those that simply find these two men to be frauds and that you then go on to define the assertions made by those that believe that they are frauds as fighting, then that is all you will see.

You have provided nothing but your own opinion as an argument to counter this, you discuss none of the video material, or other posters concerns regarding the skepticism voiced about Greer and Hoagland.
That would seem to be a rather negative approach and not constructive of the elements you claim to want, these being debate and analysis. This fact relegates your posts to simply fighting.

How could any newcomer find a grain of truth when it is shrouded in so much hate and bickering?

A newcomer would see a post of these video's, you calling people who disagree with you a disinfo agent and then you complaining about the quality of the thread. It is that simple.

I suggest that newcomers do what many of us have, research, do your own work in finding the truth instead of having what you want to hear spoonfed from Greer and Hoagland. We were all new comers once.

I also suggest that you take the criticism and skepticism seriously. I have seen many people express the fact that, even if Greer and Hoagland are lying about somethings, there is truths or halftruths to what they say.
Well, then the reverse should also be applicable. Criticism also carries this law, this means that Greer and Hoagland are being criticized for a reason and there is truth in there too.

Greer and Hoagland are imperfect people.

This is not an excuse for lying or fraud. Lets be clear on what imperfections people are concerned about, these men are hardly perfect when it comes to telling the truth.
As this is essential to the video and its contents you need to address these issues in a much more constructive and positive manner other then simply brushing this off as simply being a general imperfection.

They have dedicated more than the sum of everyone on this thread (most probably) to bringing about the most important thing in life, that of knowledge and truth.

You are correct, I would guess that the vast majority of people on this forum do not invest time is setting up numerous shell companies under the pretense of finding new alternative energies and technology for over 10 years with absolutely no results ever.
I would also guess that members here have not endeavored to persuade individuals to invest in these companies, companies that have yet to release any new information or working models relating to new energy systems ever in over 10 years, even though Greer has announced that he would do so on numerous occasions.
I would also guess that no one here has started "projects" or "missions" in order to promote beliefs in unseen forces( sounds kinda like a religion doesn't it).
I would also guess no one on this thread has written a book or two, or made numerous "interviews" with Camelot or Avalon, Veritas et al advertising Conference dates or DVD releases or crop circle tours or courses on how to be a Galactic Ambassador.

So you are correct, I doubt any one person here, or even collectively as a whole, have we spent so much time if any at all, acting in this manner.

Look at the youtube hits on their videos. Look at this ruckus on a forum thread. CLEARLY these men have made an impact, whether it is positive or negative is second to the exposure they have spawned to the people of the issues at hand.

Brittany Spears gets a lot of hits. Jihadists beheading Americans get alot of hits.
You are equating exposure with truth and integrity. In this day and age these things are almost mutually exclusive.
When you mention issues have you understood and researched the actual issues raised in the Video.
Do you even understand what Hoagland uses to support his Theories. Do you just swallow his twisting of Non-Euclidean Geometry and Hyperspacial theory?
Do you understand the assumptions Hoagland tacks onto his Enterprise Mission information in order to create the scenarios in the Video?
Do you?
Do you understand or even know the origins of Torsion Fields.
I suggest you do exactly as Hoagland suggests, research it.
You will find that it was a scientific scam perpetrated by Russian scientists.
www.skeptik.net...
en.wikipedia.org...

Do you understand the Cartan-Einstein theory that Hoagland, and others have used to invoke torsion field theory in their own stories.
What they don't mention is that under the Cartan-Einstein theory, while it is possible for these fields to exist, they are very weak, they cannot be observed(how nice for Mr. Hoagland) and seem to have no purpose.
Electromagnetic fields are caused by charge, Gravity or gravitational fields are caused by weight, and Torsion Fields are caused by spin.

Yet according to Hoagland, these fields are related to Hyperdimensional realities that create the reality we live in. So, in other words, a field created by spin, that we cannot see nor appears to have any real force or use, is transferring "information" from another dimension, and this is what creates our reality. Think about that. Because this is what the truth sounds like from Hoagland.

“The existence of unseen hyperspatial realities... that, through information transfer between dimensions, are the literal ‘foundation substrate’ maintaining the reality of everything in this dimension.”

www.enterprisemission.com...

Hoagland uses Heim-Droescher Theory, for the meat of his multi-dimensional hyperspace material as I understand it.
It was Shipov and Akimov that developed the Torsion field material that he refers to in the Video, this is a rough paraphrase, when he asks the viewer to "google torsion fields, you'll see russian scientists etc etc".

The greatest story of mankind looms in the shadows, the greatest embargo of truth is lying hidden deep in the clutches of those in power.

This may be the greatest story, have you considered that? That Greer and Hoagland keep telling us that we would know, only if the PTB told us. Yet it seems Greer and Hoagland know the truth, but only at conferences, book launches, DVD releases, Radiopodcasts etc etc.

To blow the lid off the ET topic would become the greatest historical event in all of mankind.

It would. At the moment, Greer and Hoagland have relegated it to a sideshow to their own Egotistical self promotion.

Please think about your motives before you post. Are you coming from ego and negativity?

I am motivated from years of research.
I am motivated by a passion for this topic.
I am motivated to investigate claims.
I am motivated by skepticism, because it challenges my beliefs.
Greer and Hoagland motivate me, they are skeptical of other truths, that I accept.
This motivates me to look what they say and do.
This motivates me to participate in threads like this.
Threads that offer little by way of debate or discussion, whilst the OP complains and attacks others or questions their motives.

Now look at the start of this post gain, Your motives are clear.

They try to put up a face of respected intellectuals who think outside the box but in reality they are just narrow-minded beings attached to this material world.

GASP < DEEP BREATH IN..

Holding Breath.

Holding


Hoolldiiing..


Turning red.

Turning purple.

Nearly passing out

Then realising its just another 'disclosure is coming' thread.

Breathes normally

I for one WILL NOT be holding my breath again for disclosure happening anytime soon, after all its probably just another excuse to 'release' disclosing information in the form of a book or seminar.

If you have information just ***ing release it already, stop cashing in on it, we the people are now becoming officially bored of waiting. The more these people say 'Disclosure' is coming the more they make the rest of us UFO and Alien fans look more nutty than we already are.
Get it over with.

Originally posted by atlasastro

Electromagnetic fields are caused by charge, Gravity or gravitational fields are caused by weight, and Torsion Fields are caused by spin.

Yet according to Hoagland, these fields are related to Hyperdimensional realities that create the reality we live in. So, in other words, a field created by spin

Atlas... Hoagland is in a field created by spin. Does this mean he has a hyperdimensional career?

IRM

reply to post by InfaRedMan


Close IRM.
This is totally ontopic too, because we can reverse the process that Hoagland tells us our reality is reliant on.
We can use Hoagland as an analogy.
Hoagland creates spin to generate a field in order transfer information needed to create the foundations of a hyperdimensional reality, a according to Cartan-Einstein that would be related to the nature of that torsion field, a reality that we cannot see, is rather weak, and appears to serves no real purpose.


So effectively Hoagland has created a hypersimensional reality but, and here is the kicker, it is reliant on Hoagland maintaining his field generated by the energy of the spin that is output. So Hoagland has to maintain the "spin" so to speak in order to preserve the torsion field.
As according to Hoagland, he needs to pass information from this dimension into the hyperdimensional reality he has created in order to maintain the very foundations of that reality, a reality we cannot see, is extremely weak, and appears to have no real purpose.

I mean if Hoagland suddenly stopped creating his spin, the torsion field would collapse.
Really IRM be fair, we wouldn't want Hoaglands hyperdimensional reality, that we cannot see, is rather weak and has no real purpose, to come crashing down on Hoagland now, would we!

Please, for the sake of disclosure IRM.
Do some research. And when I mean research, I mean just watch a factual video, like in the OP, because the OP is in fact a video.


Its all on his website too dude. Geez you are so ignorant sometime mate!

This is my favorite quote though mate.
This is where Hoaglands invisible Hyperdimsnsional information transference is taking us.

“affecting every known system of astronomical, physical, chemical and biological interaction differently over time -- because it affects the underlying, dynamical hyperspace foundation of ‘physical reality’ itself.” “And now, according to all accumulating evidence and this centuries-old physics... we are simply entering once again (after ‘only’ 13,000 years...) a phase of this recurring, grand solar system cycle ‘of renewed hyperdimensional restructuring of that reality .

www.enterprisemission.com...


We are entering just another phase of Hoagland and Greer "restructuring the truth" and transforming it from any reality.

Originally posted by rajaten

If anyone is interested in the reality of disinfo agents and organised attacks on conspiracy theorists, you may enjoy this new video by Alex Jones from 10:00 minutes onwards. Just a thought.

[edit on 16-8-2010 by rajaten]

Wait... there's a conspiracy against conspiracy theorists? And your proof of this is the editorial of a professional conspiracy theorist on a conspiracy theory radio/TV show?

That's good enough for me!

I see you people Debating of Reality VS l Hoax

maybe they are just throwing Half Truths out there for you

(if you smart enough) to piece together

The Dead do talk just look at the ones that were Murdered & Missing
that Blew the whistle Exposing or how about the Exposure of the Hidden planning

if you want to question, question these

Phil Schneider
www.philschneider.org...

one Movie in mind is the Long Kiss goodnight Ending sequence
made in 1996 predicts the 911

Hollywood 9/11: 9/11 Synchronicities In Films
www.conspiracyarchive.com...

hell off topic sort of trying to make a point
the video a Food for thought thing ...



Dead Scientist do tell tales
www.stevequayle.com...

So for Disclosure what about the Astronauts
Gordan Cooper
Edgar Mitchell
Buzz Aldrin

The Right Stuff John Glen firefly's ? Half truths ?

UFOs Space FireFlies? Is This What John Glenn Saw?
www.youtube.com...

The Right Stuff Clip 14 - John Glenn Friendship 7 (2)


The Tether incident is this what John Glenn Saw ?


Dust particles ? Ufos Firefly's ? John Glenns Photo Taken

Crossing over the Canary Islands, Glenn observed that the "fireflies" outside the spacecraft had no connection with gas from the reaction control jets. His suit temperature felt too warm, but he didn't take time to adjust it. The Kano, Nigeria and Zanzibar sites suddenly noticed a 12 percent drop in the spacecraft secondary oxygen supply.

Besides John Glenn, Scott Carpenter said the same thing as he also saw the Fireflys

audio of John Glen Friendship 7 Audio (Firefly's ) and the Tether indecent




[edit on 16-8-2010 by Wolfenz] I put John Carpenter instead of Scott carpenter i must of had ( The Thing )movie Moment LOL

[edit on 16-8-2010 by Wolfenz]

[edit on 16-8-2010 by Wolfenz]

reply to post by Wolfenz


Wolfenz,

I commend you on your creative post but I cannot see how this nullifies the fact that Greer is a proven liar and Hoagland makes a living of elaborate spin. Both clearly documented and proven within this thread.

The problem with these charlatans is that they must continually up the ante, and with each successive story, it must by it's very own nature, become more and more fantastical. Otherwise people wont pay attention and feed their coffers because they have seen it all before. That doesn't bode well for the financial future of clowns like Greer and Hoagland.

IRM

[edit on 16/8/10 by InfaRedMan]

In my honest opinion, the best thing that could ever happen to the human race is disclosure of our ancient past, our origin, and the possibility of intelligent life out there. We as a species have come at a point where we can decide our next step of "mental" evolution. This world is our cradle, we have to leave it sooner or later.

Forget the religious implications, some will kill themselves, some will resist, but the majority will have to accept that new reality and the majority probably will. There's no reason to let the greed of the few take a stranglehold on humanity and let it hold back the real potential of an interstellar civilization. Because that is the next step.

And i would applaud anyone that would fight for the absolute truth to come out. Because i'm sick and tired of seeing a world without a cause, crumbling from within. I think humanity needs this, there will be bumps along the road, but we will persevere. We will survive, and we will flourish.

The bottom line is this:

Just because a person (such as Greer or Hoagland) says something that just happens to agree with a pre-conceived notion you may have does NOT necessarily mean that the person is telling the truth.

In reality they may just be saying exactly the things you want to hear just to exploit you -- in this case, to buy the products and services that they are selling. It's the most basic tool of cult leaders, professional politicians, brain washers, and advertising professionals.

Basically it's all about the "con" -- or "confidence" part of the term "con man". They do/say things to gain your confidence, then exploit that confidence, sometimes without the victim ever knowing they are being exploited.

Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not

Originally posted by torsion

Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not
He does this to take money out of your pocket.

Absolutely!
He was in the UK this year conducting one of his fake "Ambassador to the Universe" training sessions. This involves sitting in a cornfield at night and watching satellites go by. Greer will say the satellite is an ET craft. If a sheep bleats or an owl hoots he will say it is an ET ambassador communicating with the group. People get to shine torches, too.
The fee he charged in the UK was $3680 per head.

Torsion.....

You're kidding.....$3,680 per head?

What kind of idiot pays that?

What's wrong with people?

That's just disgusting..... :shk:

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

are these people Ufologist Theorist the new evangelist ?

Ill start to worry if the try to cleanse or Protect your Soul from Evil Aliens

I was Happy to see the Disclosure Projects but if he(Greer) is truly charging this wild amount 3,600 pounds ? it clearly shows he is ini t for the money if this is True ,, don't forget this guy is a doctor i understand funding for appearance has to come from some where

One Evangelist exposed this Money making Business was a guy named
Marjoe Gortmier in the early 70s then he became a Unsuccessful actor
he became a psychopath torture criminal in one movie called
When you coming home Red Ryder & Food for the Gods

The Little Old Ladies he scammed would of been in shock or died from a heart attack if they knew their wonderful young evangelist was making these type of movies the Movie is called Marjoe look it up
Sources of Marjoe if Interested

www.youtube.com...
Marjoe Gortner Religion is a business

Evangelist to Villain Actor
WHEN YOU COMIN' BACK RED RYDER (1979)
Marjoe Gortner humilates hostages * Torture!
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Mammoth


I agree with your sentiment, but I disagree with you on a couple of points:

First, what you are saying presupposes that there is some group of people that "know the truth" and have the ability to disclose this truth to the rest of the world. This may not be the case.

Secondly, over 60% of Americans polled said they believe in life elsewhere in the universe. I don't see these 60+% of Americans killing themselves over this.

Even 100 years ago, it was very much in fashion" to believe in Moon Men and Martians -- just look at how popular Percival Lowell's books (non-fiction books, in his mind) about a Martian Civilization were. It could be argued that those people should have killed themselves or abandoned their religion over this idea.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

Basically it's all about the "con" -- or "confidence" part of the term "con man". They do/say things to gain your confidence, then exploit that confidence, sometimes without the victim ever knowing they are being exploited.

But if a person is a "con man" and doing something fraudulent or illegal, your ultimate goal as debunkers should be to expose that person and put them in jail.

But Greer for example has been in the game for 20 years now, has not just one but three non-profit organizations going, still does CSETI trainings for $1000, still sells books and DVDs, still goes around lecturing to big sold-out audiences, still makes the occasional appearance on C2C, gets invited to big Exopolitics conferences in Spain as an honored guest, etc etc......

In other words, you guys have completely and utterly FAILed to stop this "con man".

There was one guy a few years ago, "Kaminski", who talked a lot of big talk about confronting Greer in Montreal and having him arrested for fraud. So of course the event came and went, nothing happened, Greer was NOT arrested, and when Kaminski was asked what happened, he said "oh well I had a stroke and I'm confined to a wheelchair so I couldn't confront Greer". It was one of the most pathetic things I've ever seen in my life.

Anyway, by all means, everybody continue the attacks on Greer. And watch as all the attacks completely and utterly FAIL to make any difference!