Oliver Stone: Jewish control of the media is preventing free Holocaust debate

reply to post by lucid eyes


I don't think there are a lot of holocaust deniers, mostly many people asking questions and seeking the truth.
Mr Stone is making valid points, points about the media and the censorship of a particular topic. Those subjects have been discussed for years. The fact is, not many know or are going to reveal what really happened.
Personally I do believe the holocaust happened, war is a very wicked thing. I also believe the victors write history and may well exaggerate the scope of this event to further push agendas.

Only disinfo agents cannot see through that.

[edit on 27-7-2010 by TheOracle]

reply to post by TheOracle


i think where the real disinfo is, is that stalin's part in it was played down so heavily it was nearly non-existent in the press for decades. if it can be proven that he was also killing jews in greater numbers than say a similarly small sized religion in his country, then i think it would be obvious that there was not only an agenda but a very specific agenda, but not necessarily for what it may be used for today.

today, it seems like its being used for the whole haves vs. have nots, when beneath it is the larger question of religion vs. no religion. stalin's elites were wealthy people. don't let anyone fool you. in communism, there's always a handful of people who have alot and then alot of people who have very little and what little they do get, is given to them under increasingly demeaning and humiliating circumstances.

the point is, none of these people needed to die and they still don't, and they will never NEED to die. people don't need to die. it's ridiculous that this seems to be the only answer some folks have when it comes to disagreement. killing people because you disagree with them is bassackwards. i don't care what the topic is, nothing justifies killing people.

reply to post by undo


I totally agree. God knows all the atrocities he committed. They are the kind of people whose ideology are stronger than the value of human life and nothing can stop them but war.
It is even scarier to see that today, Stalin is 'almost' considered a hero in Russia!
www.opendemocracy.net...

Sad thing is that we don't learn from our past, looking at how human beings are treated in Palestine.

reply to post by TheOracle


i think we all need to move to a neutral country like sweden, where they never get invaded cause they have everyone's money in their banks.

Originally posted by TheOracle
Only disinfo agents cannot see through that.

Ah yes, enter "disinfo agents" and welcome to La-La-Land.

Claiming Holocaust-Theories and talk are being "suppressed" is pretty damn insane considering that since Internet started in the 90s alternative Holocaust Theories and Holocaust-Denial are more widespread than ever before..

reply to post by lucid eyes


You do know this thread is about media suppression, aka MSM, right? The internet is supposed to be free, without it we have no ATS.

Firstly, my question is if one really wants to debate the numbers of Jews systematically slaughtered by the Nazis; one must ask how many were Jewish according to Halacha? The number we were told that died in the Holocaust included Orthodox Jews (Halacha), those with one Jewish parent, those with one Jewish grandparent, and their decendants and non-Jewish spouses. The number included all of the above equals almost 6M. If we were to discount those who were not Jewish according to Halacha then the number would dramatically change based upon who really was Jewish; a quick guess would be that closer to less than 3-4M. Having a Jewish name does'nt mean the person is in fact Jewish according to the Chief Rabbis of Israel. Many non-Jews have Jewish names because of their father who was Jewish, but not necessarily the mother was Jewish.

However, this is not what Oliver Stone is debating. By the way, Oliver stone's father was Jewish and his mother is French Catholic.

What I would like to see is a factual documentary movie based upon the lead up to events that caused the deaths of so many millions of people.

Originally posted by thov420
You do know this thread is about media suppression, aka MSM, right? The internet is supposed to be free, without it we have no ATS.

So the Internet is somehow not part of mass-media like 99% of the country are not logged in? And the supposedly all-powerful PTB couldnt do anything about the spread of the Internet?

(Hint: The U.S. Military created the Internet and the U.S. Government allowed it to spread for the benefit of mankind).

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Hardly any news there.

Perhaps you´ve missed IBM and the Holocaust?

This book makes you give a hard look at how incipient IT technology made it possible to persecute Jews at Nazi Germany.

Only with IBM's technologic assistance was Hitler able to achieve the staggering numbers of the Holocaust. Edwin Black has now uncovered one of the last great mysteries of Germany's war against the Jews -- how did Hitler get the names?

Chilling, but very enlightening, I can assure you.

eek, i just read the article linked in the op. he thinks he has walked far enough in the shoes of hitler and stalin to understand where they were coming from?

he's also talking about how stalin was vilified in western press. hell, i didn't even know stalin was in charge of russia much less a dictator who killed millions of his own people until recently. but i definitely knew about hitler. for the last 40 years i've been aware of hitler and what he did. stalin? who's that? he killed more people than hitler, and most of them in his own country, and yet, i had no clue who he was. i only knew he was a politician of some kind, somewhere overseas. and now stone's going to inform us that stalin was just misunderstood?

oh this can't be good.

Originally posted by lucid eyes

Originally posted by thov420
You do know this thread is about media suppression, aka MSM, right? The internet is supposed to be free, without it we have no ATS.

So the Internet is somehow not part of mass-media like 99% of the country are not logged in? And the supposedly all-powerful PTB couldnt do anything about the spread of the Internet?

(Hint: The U.S. Military created the Internet and the U.S. Government allowed it to spread for the benefit of mankind).

You said earlier that disinfo agents are for the 'la la land' folks like me? When in fact they do exist, if you have been on ATS for the past year or so you'd know what i am talking about. I don't mind people getting paid for writing nonsense on message boards, a cool job when you think about it. Just sad when people are actively promoting and believing propaganda the powers feed them, for free.

And you believing the US army and govt have mankind's benefit at heart is really funny. Again if you have been following the news and ATS, you'd have seen that they regret allowing so much freedoms and bills are being made to restrict our freedom of speech. Feel free to ask the owners of ATS how they feel about it.


[edit on 27-7-2010 by TheOracle]

Originally posted by undo
eek, i just read the article linked in the op. he thinks he has walked far enough in the shoes of hitler and stalin to understand where they were coming from?

he's also talking about how stalin was vilified in western press. hell, i didn't even know stalin was in charge of russia much less a dictator who killed millions of his own people until recently. but i definitely knew about hitler. for the last 40 years i've been aware of hitler and what he did. stalin? who's that? he killed more people than hitler, and most of them in his own country, and yet, i had no clue who he was. i only knew he was a politician of some kind, somewhere overseas. and now stone's going to inform us that stalin was just misunderstood?

oh this can't be good.

I don't think he will portray stalin or hitler as the 'good' misunderstood guys. I think he will simply put things in their perspective as doing what they truly believe is good and necessary for their country and the world. You can look real sympathetic while committing atrocities you know?
Thinking about it now, it does remind me of the image of the friendly and funny GW Bush.

Evil's face is one of an angel.

reply to post by TheOracle


hopefully he's not running inteference for the new stalinists in that article you linked. that's some scary stuff there.

dudes, just let us live our lives. good freakin' grief.

I think Stone is making the following points ;

1) The Holocaust is no longer a HISTORICAL issue, but a POLITICAL ISSUE

2) That any 'democracy' that criminalises a debate on the Holocaust is not a democracy

3) A country that values free speech must value all debates, not just ones that conform to the prevailing orthodoxy - such as the issue of the Holocaust

4) That a country that criminalises free speech is a fascist state

5) That any country like America where a lobby group can terrorise people into silence, is also not a free country

6) That the Holocaust is not a unique example of human evil in history, so why treat it like one ?

7) That Napoleon was the first person to use gas chambers in his ships to kill Haitian slaves and that the US still uses gas chambers to execute prisoners - so why target just the nazis as the personification of evil ?

8) That Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao killed 100 million people last century under Communism - so why only target the Nazis as the epitome of evil. Logic would dictate that the greater number of dead = the greater evil. YET TODAY ON ANY AMERICAN UNIVERSITY CAMPUS YOU WILL FIND SO CALLED 'ANTI-FASCISTS' WHO REVERE COMMUNISTS FROM LENIN TO CHE GUEVARA.

That shows the innate stupidity of students, the sickness of liberals and leftists and the utter hypocrisy of liberals and 'anti-fascists' who are apologists for communism whilst attacking the Nazis.


9) That free speech on the issue of the Holocaust has become threatened by the Zionist lobby groups that run America

10) That these Zionist lobby groups, from AIPAC down, control America through the Marxist-Leninist Terrorism of the Word 'racist'.

Personally I think the real 'War on Terror' America should be fighting is the terror and tyranny of political correctness and Zionism, both of which are the primary reasons why the Islamists hate America and target America.

If the Zionists that control America did not use America as Israels hired thug then the Islamists would not be attacking America.

If the leftists / liberals that espouse political correctness had not so weakened America and the fortitude of the American spirit to the point that America invited attack by being seen as corrupt, degenerate and enslaved to Israel, then it would not have been attacked.

Those that attack free speech are the real fascists.

Those that attack Stone for his views demean the millions of Americans who fought and died for free speech.

reply to post by wolfofodin


cool thing is, we can still talk about all these things. we can say whether we agree or disagree or have no opinion. the problem i have with this thing he's doing now, is that, even if it makes some valid points, it will inevitably have a very bad effect on innocent people in 2 specific religous categories, christians and jews. i have no more control over what politicians, corporations or banks do than your average christian or jew, yet the end result of all this is to blame them in particular. he's being irresponsible, is what i'm saying and we all know what happens when political/influential figures are irresponsible.

adding that an upcoming film of him aims to put Adolf Hitler and Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin "in context."

Yes, I'm sure this film of his has no motivation to turn a bunch of scared CPers into a profiteering scandal.

The Jews have every right to protect a grave history from being forgotten.
Just as you can read Mein Komf and make your own opinion about Hitler.
Maybe I'll post of a video of how GWBush really saved the entire species of man. I don't believe that, but I'm sure I could make a very convincing film.

I think the idea that christians and jews can be 'victims' in America or virtually anywhere in the world is absurd.

The fact is that these two groups, along with the Zionists because of their global networks and the Arabs because of their oil money, have disproportionate power and political influence in America.

The real victims in America are not the Jews or Christians or the African Americans - they are the poor, working class whites from predominantly catholic backgrounds who, unlike the Jews, mexicans and Blacks, have never benefited from affirmative action plans.

They are the real victims of America.

The forgotten white victims of first the WASP elite with its religious bigotry against catholics and its racial bigotry against non-anglo saxon whites and then the forgotten victims of political correctness and affirmative action - as they have never been helped by anyone, but despised by all.

But they do not have lobby groups, ethnic grievances extortionists, race relations profiteers and do not own the corporate media to publicise their plight.

reply to post by wolfofodin


happens to protestant whites as well, so the days of catholic vs protestant priviledge are just a fading memory.. now it's white males vs. the whole planet. with white females getting tossed under the bus so early via any number of other prejudices, that no one even notices they are MIA. well, except when it comes to instituting social laws like abortion and equal opportunity...then the white ladies have some value, then, it's back under the bus ya go, right next to that "lefty ho," hillary clinton and that "religous nut alaskan bimbo" sarah palin. i mean the derogatory names for those 2 women were so thick, you could cut them with a knife and sell them to fertilizer companies.

[edit on 27-7-2010 by undo]

Too true my friend.

Being white and poor makes you a ghost in America.

Whites need a 'National Association for the Advancement of White Working Class People', or an AIPAC for poor whites or a white jesse jackson and Al Sharpton.

But hey we all know the corporate media would call them 'RACISTS' whilst licking the hand of the Jewish lobby groups and the black and Mexican lobby groups.

If blacks, muslims and Jews organise as a community in the multi-cultural system then thats called 'empowerment'.

If whites dare to to do the same then thats called 'racist'.

Such hypocrisy is sickening.

And will cause real social problems soon as the debate and issues around such double standards are always being ignored in the corporate media - but are proliferating on the internet.

Whilst the rich white elite, the Zionist elite, the Jewish elite and the black elite all live in their ivory towers and peddle political correctness and ignore the debate , down below in the real world the white masses preparing to revolt.

The Truth Shall Set You Free....

I want my freedom, carry on Mr Stone