Oliver Stone: Jewish control of the media is preventing free Holocaust debate

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by oozyism

 

if history is always written by the victors, and we are currently under the victorious zioniist world domination scheme, how come american history books all talk about those horrible christian crusaders?

sometimes ya just can't help yerself. you see it and it screams, HERE'S YOUR CHANCE!

If only you didn't skim through it and read that part:

But victors become losers, losers become victors, so history is nothing but manipulation, exaggeration, lies and deception.

reply to post by ~Lucidity




that's true! i know i wasn't there. egads i get bitched at for playing a video game. these guys literally blow each other up, rape women and children, fry people's brains, blow their ear drums up, choke 'em to death with noxious gases, stab 'em, shoot 'em, steal their stuff, etc, and i get bitched at for playing a video game! We little people will never be good enough! EVER! and we'll be accused of doing the shat the real power players are doing and benefitting from.

come soon lord jesus, this planet is a freakin' disaster area!

reply to post by oozyism


also true! so who is the real culprit, me wonders. .. kinda is a head scratcher ain't it?

I think Ollie has really gone off the deep end. He has made a hell of a lot of good movies....but these new ones will be sort of like JFK.......bull....he's definetely on a downward spiral. No one can be expected to make great films like he has forever.

These new films will only put a cloud over his achievments and sully his reputation.

reply to post by LurkingSleipner


We have discussed it.We've discussed it for 70 years now. It is literally retarded to continue talking about that which has been discussed. Would we discuss for 70 years the Sky being blue? And no that's not some straw man fallacy. The simple fact is we have discussed the holocaust for 70 years. And in those 70 years, not much has changed. We found more documents to refine our numbers. Nothing says that millions of Jews and millions of people did not die. It only changes the numbers to more exact values. Does it really matter if 4 or 6 million died? It becomes retarded at this point. As if 4 million somehow changes things.

It's like creationists who claim that because feathers were added to some species then all of science is wrong.

Thanks but no thanks. It just redefines what was already true. Nothing much changes.

[edit on 27-7-2010 by Gorman91]

[edit on 27-7-2010 by Gorman91]

Open discussion for what? Jews WERE killed. Perhaps the number of Jews killed is exagerated but the fact remains that many people were imprisoned and killed simply for their religious beliefs.

The world however, has not learned from this terrible occurance as now the victims of that tragedy have genetically cleansed hundreds of Palestinian villages so that Jews may move in. There has not been even ONE day where a Palestinian has not been killed By Israel.

So, those that were victims now make victims of others. IF it was wrong to do those terrible things to the Jews than it is wrong to do it to the Palestinians.

reply to post by Gorman91


well stalin killed quite a few jews as well. so we can always add back that 2 mill from his side of the equation. long story short, war sucks.

reply to post by undo


I have to say. You really managed to make the bloodies war in the last century humorous. I don't know how to feel. But yea, war sucks.

reply to post by Gorman91


Really?! OK , then we should just stop discussing ancient history, Rome, Greece, Egypt, Asia, etc. ad nauseam. A little common sense goes a long way Mr."I hate any history that doesn't agree with my ideas or beliefs". You probably would be one to defend those who said the earth was flat back in the middle ages, all because no one can discuss history or current fact. I'm no debating there were murders committed en mass but discussion on the topic is allowed and should not be stifled. You cannot predict what information may be found through more research.

reply to post by LurkingSleipner


Well you see, Rome Egypt and Greece have missing history and we still do not understand everything. So we should not.

I don't know if you realize this, but there's 2 extra decimal parts to the age of those nations compared to the Holocaust. The holocaust was 70 years ago. Hell, it began 80 years ago. It is not that far back. We have all the data more or less and a generally perfect picture of it. We cannot talk to survivors of Rome or Greece, we can talk to survivors in Germany.

So more or less, your attempt at a strawman fallacy failed and your point is null.

reply to post by Gorman91


come on now, your argument for imprisonment of a historian is?

The simple reason it is a crime is because of past experiences.

So you are saying Europeans fixed the mistakes of their past due to the Holocaust. Or that they learned from the holocaust, therefore holocaust is important to keep the Europeans un-racist?

That isn't an argument, Europeans weren't the first racist people of this planet.

Think in this manner, let's switch thought. Do you really need 6 million Jews killed to realize that killing innocent people is wrong?

reply to post by oozyism


Nope. But that does not justify lying about it.

Hell, you could do just as much of a case for a state for Israel and the entire human history would not change if the number was a mere 500,000. So there is no reason to increase the numbers. There is nothing gained. But there is a lot lost if you begin to believe your own lies of fewer and fewer people until none of them were killed.

Lets switch the cards again? America did the same thing with the Native Americans. We often forget +35 million native Americans died because of European colonization. To the average american, this number is null and forgotten. So we ignore the genocide done to them. See how that works? No one remembers it. I wonder if we would be so expansionist if everyone knew our homeland is at the foot of millions of dead indians?

[edit on 27-7-2010 by Gorman91]

reply to post by Gorman91


i wish you would really understand it's not some straw man fallacy I'm trying to give you. All I am saying is It shouldn't be dismissed just because it happened in the last century. There are plenty of things newer then wwII we have yet to fully comprehend or to know the full truth of. As I said previously I'm not debating what occurred, I'm just saying maybe we can find more information then what we have. An inquisitive mind that wishes to research and discuss the research or theorize shouldn't be simply disregarded because one may not like to hear about it.

And I do apologize for any offensiveness in my previous posts, i will try to be more civil about the discussion we are having.

Edit to add- I think it would be a folly to think we ever have all the information on a given situation. That would not be conducive to a learning or research environment to think we know all there is to know.

[edit on 27-7-2010 by LurkingSleipner]

reply to post by Gorman91


of course people remember it because it is talked about often and is even the subject of movies, books and music, just like the holocaust. we're reminded frequently. and we all pretty much agree, that sucked too.

reply to post by LurkingSleipner


Sure fine. You've convinced me. If that's what you want to hear. I suppose I'm being a hypocrite. Like I said. I'd favor the koran being placed in with the bible in hotels because I'm that convinced of my faith. I'm sure as hell less convinced that the truth will ever be fully known on these issues.

So yea, why not. have a grand old debate with every single researcher in the field in a massive dome.

Surely when the world is mine I will do these things for you.

And no this is not a sarcastic reply. I'm just tired of talking about it. And for me, if you're convinced in something, then you don't have to worry about a debate because you've already won. Call it arrogance, whatever. It just is really really retarded to have a debate on such concluded topics.

The more I look at it the more I want to do it actually. I do plan to get involved with some politics as an architect when I am in the field. Perhaps we should have a might debate across the world on a variety of topics to once and for all say good bye to these retarded issues. We could all stand to learn a thing or too.

reply to post by Gorman91


6 million did not die...

if Auschwitz has a sign out front saying 1 to 1 1/2 million deaths and was supposedly responsible for two thirds of all the deaths..

you need to subtract 2.5 MILLION people including NON Jew's from that number..

so check your lies before you spout them off..


cant even start to talk about this subject without sheep repeating lies on top of lies..



Oliver Stone is Right.

reply to post by Shadowfoot


Thou should not speak ill of Genghis Khan...He is a great leader...think before you speak...

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by oozyism

 

Nope. But that does not justify lying about it.

Hell, you could do just as much of a case for a state for Israel and the entire human history would not change if the number was a mere 500,000. So there is no reason to increase the numbers. There is nothing gained. But there is a lot lost if you begin to believe your own lies of fewer and fewer people until none of them were killed.

Lets switch the cards again? America did the same thing with the Native Americans. We often forget +35 million native Americans died because of European colonization. To the average american, this number is null and forgotten. So we ignore the genocide done to them. See how that works? No one remembers it. I wonder if we would be so expansionist if everyone knew our homeland is at the foot of millions of dead indians?

[edit on 27-7-2010 by Gorman91]

You previously agreed that history can be manipulated, and it is being manipulated, yet you pose the Holocaust as an absolute truth.

In regards to native Americans, it is still in history, isn't it? So why didn't the Americans learn from it, just like Europeans learned from the Holocaust?

To conclude, you have to remember, people don't just manipulate history to hide murder, but they also manipulate to accuse someone of murder.

The accused in this case, will always have the chance to prove his innocence.

The accuser will always have his chance to prove the guilt of the accused.

Since manipulation exists in all sides, one should never stop research.

This is what Holocaust Denier's Key points from Wikipedia:

Key elements of these claims are the rejection of any of the following:

that the German Nazi government had a policy of deliberately targeting Jews for extermination as a people;

that more than five million Jews[1] were systematically killed by the Nazis and their allies;

and that genocide was carried out at extermination camps using tools of mass murder, such as gas chambers.[2][3]

Let's go deeper.

Let's examine the evidence on both sides.

Originally posted by reeferman
reply to post by Gorman91

 

6 million did not die...
Oliver Stone is Right.

Here you go...


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/811fda79a8ba.jpg[/atsimg]

You're going to need this after spewing that.

yeah i'm not one to follow the crowd unless i'm convinced the crowd is right and that's rare lol

i'm gonna say that it was probably more than 6 million. who knows how many died in stalin's gulags and siberian death camps. in fact, to this day, they don't know the exact number of people who died there but its in the millions. add that to the fact stalin ended up being just as jew hating as hitler did...
of course, stalin didn't like christians or muslims either. in fact, i don't think he liked anybody lol