Hispanics flee Arizona ahead of immigration law

Originally posted by TiM3LoRd
hmm this is interesting. does this mean white middle class americans will have to clean their own toilets and do their own gardening?

What it WILL mean is that legal Americans will actually have the option of taking such a job when or if they need to. In the past, this type of work (and many others) were there as a support system for Americans who (for whatever reason) loose their "better" job but still have to survive and support a family.

What it MAY mean is that some of the lazy scum in this country will have no excuse of "I can't find a job so I'm going to sit on my ass all day playing video games and eating junk food" and therefore, remain on welfare etc. Different topic for sure...but...these jobs are ours. They belong to this country and it's people. If the natural progression is that employers have to pay more for doing the "dirty work", then so be it. If such jobs remain fall-back work...that is fine too.

Maybe I'm too "old school", but if I lost my job, I would rather start washing someone else's toilet than take unemployment or welfare to support my family. It kind of goes with the "objects in motion, stay in motion" idea. Working any type of job is better than sitting at home. Just like how you get hit on more when you have a girlfriend, than when you don't

But to have this potential income source stolen, especially in this economy, should be...err...umm...illegal.

Illegal immigration would be a very much smaller problem if they were to look at the true problem.

If there were no jobs for them to do when they came here,they would not come.

When are the authorities going to crack down on those who hire them?,those who don't check close enough to expose the fact that their documentation is false.

Those who look the other way,in order to take advantage of them,and abuse then in ways the average american would not tolerate,those who take advantage of the fact that they will take the abuse without exposing themselves as undocumented laborers.

It happens too often that the real problems are not looked at closely enough.

Of course they can't crack down on their buddies friends and cronies now,can they?.

Undocumented laborers are not the problem,this legislation is only a diversionary tactic to steer the focus away from the real problem.

Corruption.

Originally posted by dragnet53
why does Caucasians really don't like other peoples culture? I really don't get and it goes all the way back when America formed with the Native Americans and the ghost dance. Also who coined the term where Caucasians were coined the majority? I never understood that one.

I really hope Arizona is not picking just totally on Hispanics and check all races. But of course racial profiling will be nothing more against Hispanics.

[edit on 9-6-2010 by dragnet53]

Caucasians don't hate other cultures, I'd be willing to bet Caucasians do more traveling to foreign countries than any race does, but what they DO hate is losing their own. Flying a foreign flag, not speaking the language and showing nothing but hate for the people of the country you just moved into wouldn't fly in any other country. It's a matter of respect, but of course respect isn't something anyone has to give except Americans.





That and Disneyland is getting too crowded.

[edit on 10-6-2010 by TylerKing]

Originally posted by chiponbothshoulders
Illegal immigration would be a very much smaller problem if they were to look at the true problem.

If there were no jobs for them to do when they came here,they would not come.

When are the authorities going to crack down on those who hire them?

I understand and (in part) agree. However, if you have a bug problem in your home (not meaning any insult), you don't just sweep up the crumbs on the floor and hope for the best. You sweep up, kill the invading bugs and then lay down some insecticide around the border of your home. You may even (if you are an A-type like me) fog the whole yard to kill off those close enough to invade your home just to check for food.

reply to post by WeAreAWAKE

I have been working since I was 12 years old,I never saw a vacation until I was 35 years old,and never made enough money to save up to do anything when I had one.

Kids have a high unemployment rate because of insurance liability associated with hiring them,it used to be that a kid could go out and get a job easily in the late 60's and early 70's,not so anymore,and those jobs the illegals do would be filled by them if it were not the way it is.

Insurance,licensure and the generally outrageous cost of living are what this country is being destroyed by.

Those who produce nothing of substance profit from our stupid fears of not being able to deal with emergencies,when the real problem is that most menial jobs don't pay a fair wage.

It isn't undocumented laborers,they are being used as a distraction so you have something to aim your mis-guided animosity toward.

Aim it at something that will matter,your politicians ,your legal system,your banking system...etc...

Those you look up to are the ones who don't want you to focus on what they are actually doing.

So they have you aim at the most defenseless of all.

Classic,attack those who cannot defend themselves.

Classic,american ignorance.



[edit on 10-6-2010 by chiponbothshoulders]

On the topic of the "poor companies who will go out of business" if they have to pay higher salaries.

I am a firm believer in the "let it fail" policy. Supporting any structure or business that is founded on an unsustainable footing means that business NEEDS to fail. If a business can't survive without using illegal workers...die. If your product or service is so crappy that you can't pay workers...you shouldn't be in business.

However...you may also discover that if your business currently uses illegals to keep costs down, and assuming you aren't using illegals just to line your greedy pockets, you may find that people WILL pay more if the option is loosing your product or service.

Gardening, for example. If the cost of paying someone to do your gardening goes up 1000%, you (as a consumer) have some choices. Do it yourself...don't do it at all...or pay a fair wage. The idea that someone "needs" to pay cheap labor for anything is, to me, stupid. If you can't or won't pay for it...you don't need it, or you need to change what is requiring your need in the first place.

Maybe...just maybe...you shouldn't buy a 10 acre lot if you can't cut it or won't pay a fair wage to have someone else cut it.

LET...IT...FAIL!

It is good to see AZ law working,keep the shiny side up Arizona and lead the way,the rest will fallow when we man up.I live in one of the surrounding states and when things change in Nov we will follow suit.

The Az law is a mirror imiage of the fed law (that is not being inforced)but with more protections for the illegal if that makes senses.Just imagine if the feds did there job and inforced the law on a federal level.

Now that the Dems are on there way out and not even the illigals can save them,there is no more need for them.We were cleaning our own toilets and mowing our own lawns before the illigals came and we will be dealing with it when there gone,SEE YA!!!!!!

Originally posted by chiponbothshoulders
reply to post by WeAreAWAKE

 

It isn't undocumented laborers,they are being used as a distraction so you have something to aim your mis-guided animosity toward.

Aim it at something that will matter,your politicians ,your legal system,your banking system...etc...
[edit on 10-6-2010 by chiponbothshoulders]

I thought my point was clear...obviously not. Of course we have to fix "everything". All the greedy business owners, the politicians, the various systems. You are 100% correct about that. But you still need to get rid of the illegal aliens...along with the reason and problems that brought them here in the first place. Clearing the illegals out of the country IS part of the solution, but for a long-term, sustainable solution, you have to fix everything.

So...I guess we agree.

If Americans were willing to take the lower end jobs then the Hispanic wouldn't be coming over here because they will know that there aren't any jobs.

reply to post by TylerKing


Latin America is huge, and there are lots of other languages being used there. So not all Latinos speak Spanish and not all of the them look like Mexicans.

It's just ignorant to think otherwise.

And please keep in mind that while I'm replying to you, I'm not even implying that you don't know this. This was meant to whoever you was replaying to instead.

reply to post by thomas_

Please... the US was a dump for fugitives and people that lived in #ty conditions in Europe. They've killed the Indians, took over their lands and established communities that later on with the help of UK, France among other nations aristocracies would become something that could be transformed on what it is today.

Don't know about the fugitive part, but yeah, most Americans are descended from people feeling crappy conditions in Europe.

Fugitive aspect would be Australia.

If Mexicans were so stupid and that level of intelligence so low and generalized they wouldn't be managing to cross US borders and even less steal your jobs and do them at least on the same level a American would do. Nor one of the richest (if not the richest) man in the world wouldn't be a Mexican.

Well this happens for a few reasons. 1. Mexicans are to stupid to ask for benefits. they are also to stupid to understand "Minimum wage" .. and thus to work for appropriate wages. And I would hazard most don't even understand they are even breaking a law, they truly seem ignorant to the fact that there even is a border .. and questioning their education, they might not understand the concept.

The other aspect is the intelligence level of Progressives, which imo border lines a kindergartner. They live a world where sense is turned upside down, and they have the money to pander their obscene ideas to the entertainment aspects of society, getting more rich, retarded individuals to tout their progressive philosophies to the just-as stupid American masses .. creating hyper-liberal sanctuaries that protect and endorse illegal immigration -- and by default, criminal working conditions.

Originally posted by die_another_day
If Americans were willing to take the lower end jobs then the Hispanic wouldn't be coming over here because they will know that there aren't any jobs.

congratulations on being a product of Liberal television. Illegals are not doing jobs Americans won't do ... they are doing jobs Americans won't do for that wage -- typically much lower, sometimes even below minimum wage. Then when people ignorant of economics look for the cheapest labor they can, often nowadays in skilled labor, they believe an illegal is cheaper, when often that's not even the case.

You've been had. There was never a period of mass job vacancies in house cleaning, or migrant farming .. it was simply slowly taken over by cheaper and cheaper labor.

reply to post by Izarith





[edit on 10-6-2010 by projectvxn]

Arizona for the win, pals. Hey if you are here illegally then you are breaking the law. End of.

If you want to see harsh laws... check out how Mexico deals with illegals. Oh, it's ok for Mexico to not want illegals but not ok for the USA?

double standard =


Arizona is gonna show California how to balance up a state budget, pals.. stay tuned.

Originally posted by Blanca Rose
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

 

On any Friday, border patrol could have there pick of any numerous amount of illegals, sending money home. Can't speak English, have money?

Show proof of citizenship.

No. I don't think that's fair. There are many migrant workers coming legally on their visa's to work the tobacco seasons, etc. And they are sending money back home. I think it's wrong to profile that way, especially in a wal-mart. I'm native american and would not want to be profiled this way, but I have been. I've walked into a convenience store and was watched and followed because everyone knows that "indians steal liquor to get drunk". I once had some old man flat out tell me from behind his counter, "don't steal anything in this place. i've got cameras"

Yeah so, I don't like it one bit, not even for the illegals.

I wonder how many az citizens are helping the police state along by reporting the illegals. When they are done with the illegals, and they've tested their system out on them.. they'll come after the dissenters next. Mark my words.

Originally posted by WeAreAWAKE
On the topic of the "poor companies who will go out of business" if they have to pay higher salaries.

I am a firm believer in the "let it fail" policy. Supporting any structure or business that is founded on an unsustainable footing means that business NEEDS to fail. If a business can't survive without using illegal workers...die. If your product or service is so crappy that you can't pay workers...you shouldn't be in business.

However...you may also discover that if your business currently uses illegals to keep costs down, and assuming you aren't using illegals just to line your greedy pockets, you may find that people WILL pay more if the option is loosing your product or service.

Gardening, for example. If the cost of paying someone to do your gardening goes up 1000%, you (as a consumer) have some choices. Do it yourself...don't do it at all...or pay a fair wage. The idea that someone "needs" to pay cheap labor for anything is, to me, stupid. If you can't or won't pay for it...you don't need it, or you need to change what is requiring your need in the first place.

Maybe...just maybe...you shouldn't buy a 10 acre lot if you can't cut it or won't pay a fair wage to have someone else cut it.

LET...IT...FAIL!

Agreed! Let it fail policy is the way to go!

Move all the manufacturing jobs to US soil, hire only American workers with appropriate wages and watch China take over the world while the US crumbles apart from inside.

It's naive to think that the "fail policy" would be something close to a solution. The "fail policy" would only work as means of creating even more money concentration on the hand of a few.

And there is no idea of people "needing" to pay cheaper for something, but the fact is that no one will pay more if they can pay less for the very same thing. That's how things work when it comes to money and you won't change that with that "fail policy".

In fact you will make it worst since for every business that shuts it's door you have a owner and it's former employees without a job.

Oh yeah and that language thing...

since no one wants to have to read things in spanish or deal with spanish speaking people... maybe I need to start demanding that you speak in lakota sioux since I'm native american.

we all still speak our language and we are teaching it to our children too. we do not have to speak english, but we do.

i have no problem with anyone coming to this country wanting to speak their language, hindi, farsi, gaelic, italian, portuguese, etc.

this is a melting pot and america is not just for white people. thank you.

Will the state die ? That would be "funny" ?

reply to post by Rockpuck


Boy you just can't take the hint can you Rockpuck, You put your pride before what you know to be right. shame, shame my poor lost soul.

You see I'm not initiated, I have no esoteric knowledge, and can not be held accountable for I am propane.

You on the other hand continue to spread your garble while influencing the outcast mind to believe you represent Masonry. Tisk, tisk.

I hear it's one thing to do some thing wrong in ignorance but another to do it while in the light. I informed you of the folly of your ways and yet you...wait....do i have to knock on your mind three times?...is that it?

Look around you Rockpuck, Do you see any other masons Posting? I'm sure you do but we don't we only see you. why do you think that is?

They are all there, clocked in their respectful normal non masonic ATS Accounts aren't they...oh never mind you can't answer that can you.

Any way birds of a feather flock together, emphasis on birds of a feather.

Your in Rome son, You have to poop in the colosseum.

But any way Back on topic.

This thread is about illegals leaving Arizona and not about illegals coming to America by swinging jumping or catapulting into the US. I was just trying to Remind the new forum moderator of this while at the Same time attempting to dispel some of the hypocrisy of what he says. Just because he did not come to America illegaly he still not to long ago was born in Costa Rica by people who took the very same advantage of that country as the one he condemns do in America.

But I imaging my post will soon be removed for some reason or another so it does not matter.

[edit on 10-6-2010 by Izarith]