Hispanics flee Arizona ahead of immigration law

reply to post by projectvxn


you talk about intellectual honesty and credibilty and your defending rockpuck a man that just made sweeping generalizations about mexicans.
its people like rockpuck who would see you on the street without knowing you and just figure you must be an illegal or an anchor baby etc etc and lump you in with the rest of the mexicans who could care less of america etc etc.. continue the racial divide its doing nothing but creating hate.

Originally posted by antonia

Originally posted by greatpiino
Fantastic. Thanks for pointing everything out to me with this gem. I now realize that threads filled with hate speech and trolling are a productive way to "look at the big picture." Thank goodness you "pwned" me and opened my eyes.

By page 4 or 5 of this thread, I couldn't even remember what the original topic was. There's no one sharing knowledge here, and there's no one pursuing it either. It's just a vehicle to breed contempt amongst people who have no intention of providing insightful commentary on the topic at hand.

Oh, and "pwned?" Seriously?

Have to agree with you here. These topics get so mired in BS they are just pointless to discuss. I've seen "Mexicans are dumb" and "Kill Whitey" in the same thread.

My opinion is still not settled on this law. I don't live in Arizona so I will not speak to their right to do what they have done. I suspect it will not be held up in the Supreme Court. This is my own opinion however (and please don't true to argue with me, you will get no response. I am not going to justify myself to anyone.)

"They took our jobs"! Oh really? You were entitled to those jobs?
"I can't get a job because of them!" Easy to blame someone else for your problem isn't it? Maybe you just stink as an employee. Maybe you want too much, maybe you need to move to find a job?
"I have to learn Spanish to find a job"! So learn Spanish. You want to work right? Bone up and learn.

(most of this was not directed at you greatpiino)

Another person with the whole job deal. What part of "they work for less money than everyone" don't you understand? What employer in their right mind would pay MORE when he can get away with paying SUB-MINIMUM wage? And don't say say anything to the effect of "then you should work for less than them", because as UNITED STATES CITIZENS we are guaranteed a particular wage in each state.

And you shouldn't HAVE to learn how to speak Spanish to get a job in the US. Our language is English, THEY should have to learn how to speak OUR language. If I was to move to Germany, I'd learn German. What happens in Germany if you only speak English? I'd imagine you're pretty screwed. So why is it different here? Why do we have to adopt THEIR way of living when they move into OUR country??

Originally posted by Rockstar02

Another person with the whole job deal. What part of "they work for less money than everyone" don't you understand? What employer in their right mind would pay MORE when he can get away with paying SUB-MINIMUM wage? And don't say say anything to the effect of "then you should work for less than them", because as UNITED STATES CITIZENS we are guaranteed a particular wage in each state.

Didn't read the rest of the post did you? It's pretty obvious from what you said. I stated WHY it is happening. If you think kicking out illegals is somehow going to magically get all the unemployed people work you are dreaming. These companies will just go somewhere were they can exploit people again.

And you shouldn't HAVE to learn how to speak Spanish to get a job in the US. Our language is English, THEY should have to learn how to speak OUR language. If I was to move to Germany, I'd learn German. What happens in Germany if you only speak English? I'd imagine you're pretty screwed. So why is it different here? Why do we have to adopt THEIR way of living when they move into OUR country??

There is no official language in the United States.
en.wikipedia.org...
Qualifications are an employer's desecration. If you want the job you know what to do.

[edit on 10-6-2010 by antonia]

reply to post by projectvxn

First: I don't hate Mexico, Mexicans, or Cuba.
Second: I still have family in Cuba I care deeply about.
Third: My family and I are all hardworking people. My parents went through hell and then some trying to make it in Cuba, and then Costa Rica, and have been bustin' our asses since we came to the US.

So is everyone else man.

This isn't about hardship, or whether one deserves to break the laws of another country, this is about politics and posturing and it is adversely affecting millions of legal aliens, and citizens.

OK so lets discuss the issue, what about Cubans in Arizona? Should they be sent Back to Cuba if apprehended?

Look, I know you don't actually want to debate issues. You just wanna make it look like you've got an edge over everyone else. I know that I'm not being the good little Hispanic you want me to be because I don't want the US flooded with illegals, can we just agree to disagree here? I'd rather not have to sit through personal attack after personal attack.

How is this...

"I welcome a law like this in Nevada. As a Hispanic immigrant who didn't run, jump, or swim my way in, I am tired of feeling like a chump for actually obeying the law. "

In anyway debating the issue? I thought you just said this...

"This isn't about hardship, or whether one deserves to break the laws of another country, this is about politics and posturing and it is adversely affecting millions of legal aliens, and citizens. "

You yap your mouth and bring up some BS about me when I call you on the fact that you have no place saying such things.

You know damn well if you and your family have the slightest chance of helping get your loved ones out of Cuba even if it meant doing so illegaly you would not think twice about it.

Remember what I said to you about intellectual honesty and credibility in the other thread? I'm noticing other members like Rockpuck telling you the exact same thing. Why don't you listen to the advice? Might help you out here.

You want to know what the definition of intellectual honesty is? I don't remember but it sure as hell is not honesty. Honesty pure and simple is what you should be practicing.

Rockpuck is a stubborn mule. And he knows it.

I know you SAY you don't care about credibility, but you sure do make a lot of noise as though you think you're entitled to more value per word than what you are fetching with your posts currently.

But just like the Free Market, no one wants to pay for crap.

Well if that's the case i'm sure the members of this Bord are very eager to hear your replies to my questions. Especially since you did not answer the first time.

reply to post by Izarith

Originally posted by thomas_

Not to mention that they were the first ones that were used (in the worst sense of the word) as the major workforce to help build the US and make it what is now. Without the blacks working in cotton, corn, etc fields in sub-humane conditions the US would never be what it is today.

Actually the first ones used were whites, but that didnt work out well, so blacks were imported. The English originally tried to recreate the class of poor whites working for slave wages they had going in England, Ireland, etc. The problem was, that the framework was missing to keep the "classes" in their place, and the whites who were imported were difficult to control here, so they imported blacks who were easier to identify and "keep in their place."

Originally posted by thomas_
And yet after all this time they are still marginalized had their access cut from a whole lot of things.

Blacks did get cheated out of the American dream, you are right. At first because of racism, and more recently, because the American dream has been undermined by "free trade" and globalization. The problem is, that some blacks are still blaming everything on racism. This causes them to fight with the people who should be their allies, (poor whites and Hispanics, etc) and keeps us all occupied bickering with each other when we need to be protecting our borders against the flood of jobs out of the country, and the flood of cheap labor in. Racism isnt the main thing keeping blacks from having the American dream any more. It was once, it isnt now. The main thing keeping blacks from moving up into the middle class is the fact that the middle class is not taking applications. Its cutting positions so fast it makes your head spin.

If we are going to win this battle, we need to be clear who we are fighting. Just because "some" whites are heading many of these corporations that are gutting our countrys economy and government does not mean ALL whites are your enemy.

Noam Chomsky;

"Its not about race, gender etc. Those are distractions. It is the rich against the poor, it always has been."

Originally posted by thomas_
In fact slave trading (a bleeping abomination) was the foundation of several countries not just the US and yet their situation is the same.

Yeah, most African countries too. And South American countries. And Asian countries. Slave labor was used almost universally around the world for many centuries. It was "efficient." (Cost effective) But efficiency is a terrible thing in terms of human happiness, as we well know. Which is the problem with allowing corporations to have a say in any electoral system. Corporations are duty bound to pursue "efficiency" and profit. Its what they do, its what they are designed to do, they will do that every time. But human happiness is not related to efficiency. Some of the things that makes humans happy are very inefficient.

Corporations are not humans, they do not care about happiness. Its OUR job to care about our own happiness and write and enforce laws that force corporations to care about our happiness. And to force them to tie their fate to the nations they do business in, because if you dont do those two things, you get what we have now.

Thomas Jefferson;

"If the American people ever allow private banks
to control the issue of their money,
first by inflation and then by deflation,
the banks and corporations that will
grow up around them (around the banks),
will deprive the people of their property
until their children will wake up homeless
on the continent their fathers conquered." "

Hello.

Edit to fix quotes.

[edit on 10-6-2010 by Illusionsaregrander]

reply to post by conspiracy nut


Ok this will be my last post:

reply to post by projectvxn


I've always greatly admired your position, and what you have to offer to any thread, regarding immigration.

You did it the right way, and are a perfect example of how immigration works, when done properly.

As always, your input is always, way over and above, what is expected.

You are a wonderful example for people who might want to do immigrate, the legal way, and never, ever lose your cool!

I've always been of the opinion, it's the fault of whomever hires people illegally, because, they don't fit into the the mix, although, while being American, they are not American.

The buck stops with people who are American, but who hire illegals.

Originally posted by die_another_day
If Americans were willing to take the lower end jobs then the Hispanic wouldn't be coming over here because they will know that there aren't any jobs.

Our college kids and others have always filled low wage jobs. Oh and...the illegals are not just taking the low wage jobs now. Just so you know. And if there are jobs that citizens won't do for whatever the reason, it does not take millions of illegals to do do those jobs.

Beacause of all the illegal hispanic population, many citizens are now forced to speak another language in their own country just to get a factory job. This is not tolerated by most Americans and they are forced to fight for english as the primary language. With no other culture are we reqired to speak their language. They have had the respect to learn ours.

Originally posted by antonia
If you think kicking out illegals is somehow going to magically get all the unemployed people work you are dreaming. These companies will just go somewhere were they can exploit people again.

You are wrong. But you do bring up a good point, in terms of why it is not good to allow a flood of people into the country. Often times you import the fatalistic, "there is nothing we can do, so we should do nothing" attitude that caused their own country to be the kind of place they are fleeing from in the first place.

There IS something we can do. We can regain control of our electoral system, and pursue more nationalistic economic policies that include heavy penalties on imports. We can make it absolutely unprofitable for companies to export jobs.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
There IS something we can do. We can regain control of our electoral system, and pursue more nationalistic economic policies that include heavy penalties on imports. We can make it absolutely unprofitable for companies to export jobs.

Protectionism will never work. These companies will simply pass the costs on to the consumer. As for the jobs situation, the export of jobs started well before the "invasion" and it continues to this day. Kicking out illegals is not going to stop it.

My cousin's girlfriend had her truck stolen from in front of our house one night. The deputies would not even come to the house to investigate and told her over the phone "It's probably in Mexico by now".

I will bet it was stolen by one of those pale skinned illegals from Canada.

reply to post by groingrinder


How funny, you mention this. When I lived in an area of Arizona, that was considered Tempe, behind the wall where I lived, was Guadalupe....

LOL, my insurance doubled, when I moved there. And I am not joking!

reply to post by magestyk7

Americans (White People) have a history of picking on other ethnic groups when they have problems and have no one to blame for. It ALWAYS happens.

Why is it that certain people equate being American with being white ? The only answer I can come up with is ignorance. Being American is your nationality and nothing else, there are Americans of all ethnicities.

Hispanics are not the only illegals in this country but they are the majority.

You're right they are the majority, which is why they feel the pressure so much.

But you're wrong in the fact that they are the only ones in our sights right now, all illegals are in our sights. The number of illegal immigrants in this country is way out of control and is causing serious harm to our country, and we must put an end to it.

I think the only groups that are safe for now are the Blacks because they chained their asses and brought them here by force in the first place.

Yes their ancestors were brought here in chains, but you forgot to mention that it was their own countrymen that hunted them down and sold them off in the first place. BTW whites were not the only people to be involved in the slave trade, you may want to read up on a little history

The sad part is white people like to push/bully other ethnic groups.

All ethnicities are guilty of bullying other ethnic groups, it's been going on since the beginning of mankind and will likely continue until the end of mankind.

You tell any LATINO that they have white in them and they will beat your ass.

Again that is something that can be attributed to ignorance. It's sad when people don't know their own ancestory.

Originally posted by groingrinder


I will bet it was stolen by one of those pale skinned illegals from Canada.

That's what I'm talking about...Canadians are sneaky...they appear to be actual Americans...the only way to detect them is to brace them with weapons (or an angry mob) and force them to drink water...(Canadians can't drink water - have you ever seen one do it?)

[edit on 10-6-2010 by nine-eyed-eel]

reply to post by Izarith

It's a simple damn test that does not give you a drop of information beyond dates and battles and bills signed. Ask one of these people who just took the test what their bill of rights are. You will be lucky if they get three of them right.

Firstly, I doubt it, but more importantly most people who immigrate here don't emigrate. Mexicans stay where the work is, when it's gone, they're gone. The people who process legally, even if they don't love this country more than their homeland (and I don't see why they should have to) .. they respected us enough to come legally, not jump a border.

I know exactly what you mean....you ever hear of Spring Brake?

I have, a nice portion of Mexico's tourist industry .. but don't fret, only the idiotic American college students venture past the armed guards of the Hotel and venture into gangland of Mexico's interior.

Which is why you should have an alternate account when involved in discussions like this....maybe?...yes?

I don't hide what I am.

Well it certainly would be nice to pull up to a drive through once again and not have to get out a English to Spanish translation book to order food again and get what I actually ordered. Maybe when I call and get a companies recording I wont have to press the number 2 for English anymore.

[edit on 6/10/2010 by CaptGizmo]

reply to post by antonia

"They took our jobs"! Oh really? You were entitled to those jobs?

Actually yes.. as an American I am entitled to an American job before an Alien is permitted to work. In Europe it's even stronger, outside of the EU an employer must prove beyond a doubt that they tried every way possible to hire a EU citizen before they are even allowed to attempt to hire an Alien. The reason? EU Residents are entitled to all EU jobs before internationals. Same in the US. In Mexico it's almost impossible to get a job if you were not BORN in the country. They have some of the toughest immigration laws.

I know it's hard for a Progressive like you to understand, but all American jobs are rightfully AMERICAN first.

And it's not about "making things better" (though some areas will see reduced crime, and almost all areas will see lower operating costs for social services) .. It's about kicking criminals out of the country. Again, I don't expect you to understand.. Progressives make it their mission to destroy the borders of the country.

reply to post by antonia


And what specifically do you base your opinion that protectionism wont work on? Its worked before, it was used to help pull us out of the last economic collapse. Prices may well go up to some degree, but there is a point where it is counter productive to raise prices. Pricing is not so simple as you are making it out to be, so if you have some more elaborate understanding, please, share it. I suspect, personally, that you are just repeating stuff you have picked up from various media commentaries, and you really DONT understand the ins and outs of pricing.

But feel free to prove me wrong.

And the export of jobs is part of the problem. And the fact that the jobs began exiting before the flood of immigrants began is beside the point. When some companies move their manufacturing overseas to take advantage of cheap labor, (those who can afford to do that, big companies) you DO instantly create a demand for third world labor in this country, because the smaller companies that cant move their production elsewhere need to have a local source of cheap labor. This local source of cheap labor then drives ALL the price of labor down, (supply and demand), further undermining the economy in general.

Which came first is sort of beside the point. Both the export of jobs and the influx of cheap labor need to be stopped. Pretending that just because one precedes the other means anything at all relevant to what we need to do as a nation is silly, and poor critical thinking in general.

Which is to be expected when what you are really trying to do is make the facts illustrate your point rather than letting the facts speak for themselves.

Originally posted by Rockpuck

I know it's hard for a Progressive like you to understand, but all American jobs are rightfully AMERICAN first.

I dont think Antonia is just "progressive." I think she has another more personal reason for being against the kicking illegals out of the country. At least that is what I have gathered from other threads.