17 States Now Filing Versions of Arizona bill

Originally posted by consigliere
Hey OP and "constituants",

CHAMPION A REAL CAUSE!!!

All i hear is a bunch of belly achin by biggots.

Actually the only racist comments have come out of your camp my friend. Not from you personally but people with your point of view...just to be clear

Some posters say they can get a job, provided the bills pass.REALLY? soooo,, an illegal immigrant has you guys jobs huh?

Illegals and those that hire them are destroying both the construction and landscaping industries so actually yes, it will will easier for actual citizens of any ethnic background to get jobs if illegals were gone.

YOU EVER HEARD OF NAFTA? Im willing to bet anything, every aggreable post is from someone Caucasion.blaming there govt for helping people of color which in turn leads to their being discriminated against,,,boo f ing hoo.people of color have been discriminated against in this country(oops company) since it was TAKEN from them.

Another person trying to make this about race
You obviously don't read posts because people are saying they don't care where the illegals come from they just want the problem solved. I'm glad that you live in a sheltered community where you aren't exposed to problems of the outside world. Consider yourself lucky !!!

reply to post by daddio


ARE you saying that you also have no social security number either, you know that is an I.D also. So if you have no social security no# ITS starting to sound a little fishy and the water is getting deeper.

reply to post by FiatLux

"I support anyone who wants to come here and work for a better life. If that is 1 billion...then yes I support it."

So then, you must believe we are able to take care of that many, or you would not have made this statement, right?

No..I didn't state that I know the US can support that many.

That was in response to a hypothetical question...in which I told them it was an extreme hypothetical and they still pushed for an answer. So in that hypothetical question...my hypothetical answer is yes.

Never did I say "we can support another 1 billion people and so I support having another 1 billion people come here."

I orginally told them they were using an "extreme" to try to trap me...that is why I didn't originally answer because I know this tactic well.

Why don't you go ask them to FIRST prove that 1 billion people are wanting to come to America??? Because you know it is a ridiculous statement...and you know that was their intent to try to get me into this ridiculous arguemnt we are now in.

Now me asking someone to prove an actual statement they made on their own, not responding to an extreme hypothetical question, is a whole differnt story.

This is why "extreme" arguments are stupid to use...and which is why I pointed out it was stupid to begin with....but thanks for trying guys.

Your actions here are one of turning around everything someone tells you, and then try to use it against them.

Asking for people to back up their claims of fact is not turning something around...it is just honest debate. The person I asked for proof from squirmed for a couple pages before someone else provided a source for them.

Originally posted by AceWombat04


It is my opinion that the potential for abuse constituting abridgement of our fourth ammendment rights exists under this legislation, based on the language in it. You are free to disagree with my opinion, and I respect your own opinion.

It is only a "potential for abuse", until that abuse trully occures and then becomes a reality, correct? So then, you are no more than jumping to a conclusion in all of this.

I have the right to hold and express an opinion regarding this legislation and my opposition thereto. My right to such an opinion is not predicated upon it suggesting a solution or compromise to this situation or this legislation. In fact, my solution would be simply to not check them, at least not under the (in my opinion) broadly interpretable language of the aforementioned legislation. Again, you are free to disagree with my opinion, and I respect your own opinion.

Sure, as opinions go. But why jump the gun and make statements based on what you think may happen, when it is not based on fact?

I can't speak for others or make inferences about their feelings. The legislation says what it says. We all, as in all things, interpret words differently. Such is human nature. Some people think it says one thing. Others think it says something else. If anything, in my opinion that suggests that there needs to be greater specificity and conciseness in the language of the legislation, so that such ambiguity may be lessened, if not eliminated.

This is why, overall, people need to watch what they say. Because what they say has the potential to come back to them, and explode in their face, all because they made the wrong interpretation of what was written.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Originally posted by manta78
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

How about here:

" The largest migration in history is changing the face of nations. The U. S. accepts more immigrants than the rest of the world combined. In China, one hundred million people are moving from the country to the city. In the West, the European Union will need over a hundred-million immigrants in the next three decades simply to keep its population at 1995 levels, as well as to keep the current ratio of retirees to workers. In Brussels, over fifty percent of the babies born are Muslim. In Germany, the death rate has exceeded the birth rate for decades, so they now have to depend on immigrants to maintain their high tech structure. In England, there are now more practicing Muslims than Anglicans. In Italy, the Archbishop of Bologna warned that Italy is in danger of “losing its identity” due to immigration from North Africa and Central Europe. The Catholic Church is facing the distinct possibility that in coming years, Islam will be the largest European faith. As migration increases, the historic legends that are the basis of national identities tend to wane. As one British historian put it, “ A white majority that invented the national mythologies underpinning modern European culture lives in an almost perpetual state of fear that it and its way of life are about to disappear.” This fear of the potential consequences of immigration is the subtext for everything else happening in Europe today."


Source:

www.worldtrendsresearch.com...

Congrats Manta...you did his job for him.

The fact is that before I asked him to provide a source...I had already found about 10 that confirmed what he said...I just knew that he didn't have a source.

Moral of the story...have your source available BEFORE you start spouting off claims of fact.

I've posted you a number of sources.
Unfortunately I can't make you read them. That is actually your responsibility. Also a few different people posted additional sources just to shut you up.
Moral of the story......PAY ATTENTION.....READ....COMPREHEND....before shooting your mouth off

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by FiatLux

 

"I support anyone who wants to come here and work for a better life. If that is 1 billion...then yes I support it."

So then, you must believe we are able to take care of that many, or you would not have made this statement, right?

No..I didn't state that I know the US can support that many.

That was in response to a hypothetical question...in which I told them it was an extreme hypothetical and they still pushed for an answer. So in that hypothetical question...my hypothetical answer is yes.

Never did I say "we can support another 1 billion people and so I support having another 1 billion people come here."

I orginally told them they were using an "extreme" to try to trap me...that is why I didn't originally answer because I know this tactic well.

Why don't you go ask them to FIRST prove that 1 billion people are wanting to come to America??? Because you know it is a ridiculous statement...and you know that was their intent to try to get me into this ridiculous arguemnt we are now in.

Now me asking someone to prove an actual statement they made on their own, not responding to an extreme hypothetical question, is a whole differnt story.

This is why "extreme" arguments are stupid to use...and which is why I pointed out it was stupid to begin with....but thanks for trying guys.

Your actions here are one of turning around everything someone tells you, and then try to use it against them.

Asking for people to back up their claims of fact is not turning something around...it is just honest debate. The person I asked for proof from squirmed for a couple pages before someone else provided a source for them.

Your own post nailed you again my friend. He called you on it and you were nailed. Sorry but you can't twist your way out.
You stated that you indeed would welcome 1billion people. That being said, you must have an understanding that 1 billion people do take up space and resources. It doesn't matter if it was a hypothetical or not you screwed up and now you refuse to admit it

reply to post by jfj123

Actually the only racist comments have come out of your camp my friend.

Please show us a "racist" comment from "our camp".

If you are going to say calling out racism is being racist...tell me who we are being racist towards???

Illegals and those that hire them are destroying both the construction and landscaping industries so actually yes, it will will easier for actual citizens of any ethnic background to get jobs if illegals were gone.

Aren't you for good ol' capitalism and free markets??

If they will do a better job and for less money than "Americans" will...isn't that capitalism at work?

Another person trying to make this about race

Because by the comments that come out of "your camp" and are supported...for some it is about race...you are just choosing to ignore that you have a lot of racists on your side.

You obviously don't read posts because people are saying they don't care where the illegals come from they just want the problem solved. I'm glad that you live in a sheltered community where you aren't exposed to problems of the outside world. Consider yourself lucky !!!

They don't care where the come from...but last week when the government tried to secure a portion of the northern border that they deteremined a weak spot for potential terrorists to sneak through...it was like a complete reversal...no one supported THAT border security. Only the border on the southern border seems to be a problem with "your camp".

Or when people say "I SEE illegals all the time"....tell me...how do you SEE a legal status???

It is about race..you are just ignoring it (willfully, intentionally, or ignorantly)...but you are ignoring it.

reply to post by jfj123


Your original "source" was a guy on a youtube video...it wasn't until I pushed you that first someone else came up with a valid source...and then you came up with one yourself.

The moral still stands...do YOUR research before you make a claim.

reply to post by jfj123

Your own post nailed you again my friend. He called you on it and you were nailed. Sorry but you can't twist your way out.
You stated that you indeed would welcome 1billion people. That being said, you must have an understanding that 1 billion people do take up space and resources. It doesn't matter if it was a hypothetical or not you screwed up and now you refuse to admit it

If it makes you feel better about yourself to think so...be my guest.

The fact still remains that I never said we can support 1 billion people...for all you know I would welcome the 1 billion people at the cost of our society collapsing.

You are not very logical...you make assumptions and logical leaps that don't make sense.


So tell me...mind reader...when I said I would welcome 1 billion people...did I think the US could support 1 billion people and have proof for that....or did I think I would welcome the 1 billion no matter the cost...even if it meant the collapse of our society??? Or hey...maybe I knew we couldn't support 1 billion people and it is my evil plan to take down American society...hmmm...so many possibilities.

You guys seem to be the mind readers...which one did I really think???

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by jfj123

 

]Actually the only racist comments have come out of your camp my friend.

Please show us a "racist" comment from "our camp".

Here's the problem. You've been caught a couple times but instead of manning up, you try and weasel out of your comments. Now based on that, what motivation do I really have to re-read the entire post ? And frankly I don't even remember if you personally even made a racist comment.

Illegals and those that hire them are destroying both the construction and landscaping industries so actually yes, it will will easier for actual citizens of any ethnic background to get jobs if illegals were gone.

Aren't you for good ol' capitalism and free markets??

I'm not for totally free markets. As example, in a TOTALLY FREE market, dumping of hazardous waste without any constraints would be legal. Are you for that ? I know I'm not. I'm also not in favor of using illegal immigrants to abuse the market.

If they will do a better job and for less money than "Americans" will...isn't that capitalism at work?

Not at all. First you're assuming they do a better job then Americans. For the most part, they do not from my experience.

Another person trying to make this about race

Because by the comments that come out of "your camp" and are supported...for some it is about race...you are just choosing to ignore that you have a lot of racists on your side.

OK prove it. Now remember you said A LOT OF RACISTS...not 1 or 2 but A LOT.




[edit on 24-5-2010 by jfj123]

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by jfj123

 

Your original "source" was a guy on a youtube video...it wasn't until I pushed you that first someone else came up with a valid source...and then you came up with one yourself.

The moral still stands...do YOUR research before you make a claim.

I see so I must post sources to back up what I say but you get to say whatever you like then weasel out of it and we're just supposed to accept it? I don't think so timmy

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


dude your makin very little sense and its quite obvious your being vague just to piss people off. you have been shown at least 10 diff sources that all state the same thing and then some. the only ones bringing race into this discussion are you and your pro-amnesty buddies calling my side and the rule of law folks racists and biggots... yet you provide no proof nor can you. we have provided you with all the proof you need to try to get it thru your thick ignorant skulls that illegal immigration is a burden on americans. real americans, legal americans, people who are in america who want to be americans. if mexico is so god damn bad, they need to go back thee and fix it then. they need to stop making folk heros out of drug kingpins and they need to stop teaching people that the southwestern US was stolen from them and that they are indigenous cause guess what, nobody is indigenous. illegal immigrants are part of the problem and no matter how much you say that they help us by doing this or that, tho it may be true, its doesnt even come close to outweighing the problems they create. nobody wants them here, send them back. the government needs to either enforce the rule of law on the southern borders and throut the metropolitan cities with large illegal populations or the people will do it. for the president to stand on the front lawn of the white house with a foriegn leaders and bash the entire state of arizona together with the 80% of americnas who support that bill is sedition. he is obviously not doing what he was elected to do, he is not serving the people who supposedly elected him. i want to see every state pass a bill just as "harsh" as arizona's, even if the 17 mentioned in the OP do it it would be huge.. what is the federal government going to do then? the day obama signs 22 million illegal mexican immigrants and the 500,000 other illegals from various countries amnesty bill, i could see civil unrest becoming a problem because TPTB are doing everything they can to do whatever the people dont want. they dont want wars, they dont want obamacare, they dont want illegals, they dont want to bail out banks, they dont want the FED.... i dont care how technologically advanced america gets, history repeats itself and we are not immune to upheavel.

outkast, get specific, stop pissing people off and provide yourside with some kind of intelligent response or stop trolling on my thread

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by jfj123

 

Your own post nailed you again my friend. He called you on it and you were nailed. Sorry but you can't twist your way out.
You stated that you indeed would welcome 1billion people. That being said, you must have an understanding that 1 billion people do take up space and resources. It doesn't matter if it was a hypothetical or not you screwed up and now you refuse to admit it

If it makes you feel better about yourself to think so...be my guest.

Actually it doesn't make me feel better or worse. When I'm wrong, I can admit it. When you're wrong all you try to do is twist your way out of it..unsuccessfully I might add We've got you number my friend

The fact still remains that I never said we can support 1 billion people...for all you know I would welcome the 1 billion people at the cost of our society collapsing.

You are not very logical...you make assumptions and logical leaps that don't make sense.

How is accepting 1 billion people which will cause society to collapse logical? Stop trying to weasel out of it, it's just not working and making you look silly.



[edit on 24-5-2010 by jfj123]

There is nomore to talk about, the boat is full and you are not getting in to sink it. UNDERSTAND. All illegals will be checked and sent out. I'm sure that when all the states take this in that all the fema camps will start to get full and then we will ship all of you back. Now go back home and fix your country so you have a place you can call home. ok. Rise up and take your own country back, don't go and ruin it for us.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Or when people say "I SEE illegals all the time"....tell me...how do you SEE a legal status???

"See" is a common term used in place of other terms like "I run across" or "I ran into" or other things of that nature.

I run across illegals all the time. And it isnt the skin color that clues you in, it is their language and their behavior.

I have always lived in states where the majority of people were not white.

The people who raised me were not white.

In Hawaii there is a term for people who are brown skinned but who grow up on the mainland. Interestingly enough, (and this will amaze those of you who assume skin color is the only possible clue to origin) the people who were called "coconuts" were the same color and ethnicity as the people calling them that! Magic! How can you KNOW someone who has the same skin color as you is not from the same place you are???? How do they do that?

Because you can. Dialect, behavior, attitudes, etc. There are all sorts of little clues that tell us where someone might come from and to pretend it all comes down to skin color is really pretty silly.

White people can even figure out when other white people come from other places, so that we can call each other names too. Magic! How does that happen?????

Its just so annoying when people pretend so passionately that the ONLY POSSIBLE WAY to tell if someone isnt from around here is their color. When we all do it all the time with people our own color.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by FiatLux

 

"I support anyone who wants to come here and work for a better life. If that is 1 billion...then yes I support it."

So then, you must believe we are able to take care of that many, or you would not have made this statement, right?

No..I didn't state that I know the US can support that many.

Your doing nothing but mincing words thoughout this whole topic. And yes, that it a ruse on your part. Do I need to type what your said in bolder letters? Do the words "then yes I support it" mean nobody can trust what you say? I don`t believe we can, not when you state it, then tell us you didn`t.

That was in response to a hypothetical question...in which I told them it was an extreme hypothetical and they still pushed for an answer. So in that hypothetical question...my hypothetical answer is yes.

Never did I say "we can support another 1 billion people and so I support having another 1 billion people come here."

Hypothetical or not, you made that statement, not me.

I orginally told them they were using an "extreme" to try to trap me...that is why I didn't originally answer because I know this tactic well.

Sure, you know it well, your trying to do the same thing and trap people yourself. Your trying it with me, and I just quoted the very words you used. Nice try, but enough people have seen this, and aren`t falling for it anymore.

Why don't you go ask them to FIRST prove that 1 billion people are wanting to come to America??? Because you know it is a ridiculous statement...and you know that was their intent to try to get me into this ridiculous arguemnt we are now in.

It doesn`t matter if it`s a million, ten million, or a billion. We can`t handle this many people at this time, with the way the job market is, and the FACT that they are here without due process.

Now me asking someone to prove an actual statement they made on their own, not responding to an extreme hypothetical question, is a whole differnt story.

But, in your responce to that 'hypothetical question", you resonded with this... "I support anyone who wants to come here and work for a better life.". I gather that also means you support the illegals coming here also, and the way they are doing it. And this... "If that is 1 billion...then yes I support it". That says, even if it was a billion, you would still support it, right? Again, you said it, not me.

This is why "extreme" arguments are stupid to use...and which is why I pointed out it was stupid to begin with....but thanks for trying guys.

No one forced you to respond, did they? If it was that stupid, why didn`t you just ignore it? I don`t believe the question itself was as stupid as the responce it got back.

Your actions here are one of turning around everything someone tells you, and then try to use it against them.

"Asking for people to back up their claims of fact is not turning something around...it is just honest debate. The person I asked for proof from squirmed for a couple pages before someone else provided a source for them."

Yes, and it also goes for you. Try backing up your responces with some facts for a change and not just speculations of what you think.



[edit on 24-5-2010 by FiatLux]

Here's the thing.
People like myself have nothing against people of other ethnic backgrounds or people from other places on the planet. We just ask that when you come to the US, you do so LEGALLY. If you want to live here legally....GREAT !!! Glad to have you contributing to our society. But if you come here ILLEGALLY, you are not contributing the way LEGAL citizens do so we as LEGAL citizens must pay more to compensate for the ILLEGALS. I'm not selfish and don't mind helping but I don't want to be taken advantage of either.
Every other country in the world protects it's borders from illegal entry so why is it such a problem when we do?? And it is not a problem when everyone else does? Why the double standard? I haven't heard one person complain about Australia for example ???

Why is this so unreasonable ?

reply to post by jfj123

Here's the problem. You've been caught a couple times but instead of manning up, you try and weasel out of your comments.

I have no idea what you are talking about...what have I been "caught" at??? I don't have to weasel out of a comment I never made...I simply just have to state that I never made that comment.

Do you not understand that you are making assumption after assumption of what you THINK I am thinking???

Now based on that, what motivation do I really have to re-read the entire post ? And frankly I don't even remember if you personally even made a racist comment.

No...of course you wouldn't...why would you back up claims that you make...that is just silly. So here you are again...making a claim that "our camp" is making racist comments...BUT YOU HAVE NO PROOF. Further more...you aren't going to even TRY to show it.

Not at all. First you're assuming they do a better job then Americans. For the most part, they do not from my experience.

I hear a lot more personal stories of them working harder and doing a better job than I hear stories like yours saying they don't. If they do such a bad job...then why would they get hired? Re-work or repairs to a poor job are generally more expensive than just doing it right the first time around.

OK prove it. Now remember you said A LOT OF RACISTS...not 1 or 2 but A LOT.

Ok...so you are going to pretend that a portion of the people on "your side" are not entirely focused on race???

People giving statistics of how hispanics will be the majority soon and then say they have to "take our country back"?

Calling American citizens of hispanic illegal immigrants "anchor babies"?

Making claims that they "SEE" illegals walking down the street, or working somewhere...tell me...how do you SEE an illegal immigrant?

Complaining about people speaking spanish?

Complaining about people retaining their culture?

Making outrageous claims...like this:
POST

Or this:
POST


And if it isn't focused on hispanics...why a post like THIS


This is just a quick scan of stuff I've seen in the past couple days...is that good enough for you?

reply to post by jfj123


You or FiatLux have still not answered my question...I'll repeat it for you.


So tell me...mind reader...when I said I would welcome 1 billion people...did I think the US could support 1 billion people and have proof for that....or did I think I would welcome the 1 billion no matter the cost...even if it meant the collapse of our society??? Or hey...maybe I knew we couldn't support 1 billion people and it is my evil plan to take down American society...hmmm...so many possibilities.

You guys seem to be the mind readers...which one did I really think???



Come on guys...how did you know I was making the claim that the US can support 1 billion people IF I NEVER SAID THAT????

ASSume much???

Originally posted by jfj123
Here's the thing.
People like myself have nothing against people of other ethnic backgrounds or people from other places on the planet. We just ask that when you come to the US, you do so LEGALLY. If you want to live here legally....GREAT !!! Glad to have you contributing to our society. But if you come here ILLEGALLY, you are not contributing the way LEGAL citizens do so we as LEGAL citizens must pay more to compensate for the ILLEGALS. I'm not selfish and don't mind helping but I don't want to be taken advantage of either.
Every other country in the world protects it's borders from illegal entry so why is it such a problem when we do?? And it is not a problem when everyone else does? Why the double standard? I haven't heard one person complain about Australia for example ???

Why is this so unreasonable ?

It`s not unreasonable. It`s more of a fact, that you just don`t support the illegals is their beef. Why do we only allow so many "legal" in at a time? Our resources can only handle so many new "legal" people in a year. But now, you add a flood of "illegals" to that mix in a short period, and what will/do we have? More people for the tax payers to support that can`t find jobs we don`t have in the first place. Sorry, but the tax money only goes so far, and why on Earth would we want to give it to "illegals" for, when we can hardly support the "legals" that are out of a job?

[edit on 24-5-2010 by FiatLux]