17 States Now Filing Versions of Arizona bill

reply to post by jfj123




Oh, I think they're trolling

and the energy they devote to misrepresenting the issue idicates to me at least that there's a budget funding the trolling


and we all have a pretty good idea as to the identities of those behind the budgets


after all, they're the same crew who funded the 'civil rights' movements

(until the blacks woke up to what was behind it --- and exposed them)

Here's another video from 2009 from youtube.com regarding "the biggest drug distribution point in America, Phoenix, AZ." And notice it's from Aljazeera. ... Phoenix--hmmm

www.youtube.com...


And people wonder why we need to secure our borders.......



[edit on 23-5-2010 by manta78]

reply to post by daskakik


mexico has a population of 111,000,000+/- (1) the illegal mexican diaspora here in the us stand at 22,000,000+(2) thats about 20% therefore you've provided ATS with more pro-illegal ignorance. becasue 90% of mexicans on this world arent in mexico... not even close.

1 - en.wikipedia.org...
2 - immigrationcounters.com...

[edit on 23-5-2010 by TheCoffinman]

Originally posted by TheCoffinman
reply to post by daskakik

 

mexico has a population of 111,000,000+/- (1) the illegal mexican diaspora here in the us stand at 22,000,000+(2) thats about 20% therefore you've provided ATS with more pro-illegal ignorance. becasue 90% of mexicans on this world arent in mexico... not even close.

1 - en.wikipedia.org...
2 - immigrationcounters.com...

[edit on 23-5-2010 by TheCoffinman]

Well wikipedia gives:

The illegal immigrant population of the United States in 2008 was estimated by the Center for Immigration Studies to be about 11 million people, down from 12.5 million people in 2007.

11 million x 60% Mexican = 6.6 million in the US so 93.4% not in the US but in mexico and other countries.

It all depends on who's numbers you believe. Personaly I don't care cause even if the number is closer to 80% that is still almost 90 million mexican working and trying to fix their country.

What's with the pro illegal remark. I live in my home country and try to tell everybody I meet that if they want to go to the states they should go the legal route. I also think it's about time the US did a better job at controlling the border and have stated that I am for law enforcement on every level should be able to ask about citizenship. Even said it on this very thread.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


NO to Amnesty. That will only make the problem worse. There is never any sense in writing laws if they are not enforceable and then enforced.

There are legitimate ways to enter America to become a citizen. One cannot make any exceptions to the rules but what someone who had waited obeying the laws is unfairly treated when an amnesty is granted to those who defied the law. The president is a man who is supposed to uphold the law. At the point he does not do that he is violating his promise to the American people, and should be evicted from his office.

NO to amnesty!

Stared and Flagged

It is time to take our country back and it is time for illegal aliens to stop hiding behind the race card and leave and not just Hispanics .ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS NEED TO BE REMOVED AND IT IS TIME TO SHUT THE DOOR THE WORLD HAS USED THE UNITED STATES FoR FAR TO LONG AND IT IS TIME FOR THIS COUNTRY TO WORRY ABOUT ITSELF !!!!

[edit on 24-5-2010 by essanance]

Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by Night Star

 

You have no need to defend yourself against their nonsense

they're just trying to derail and misrepresent the issue


You're not answerable to them

who are they, anyway ?

People who have no common sense evidentally. I mean it is crystal clear that illegal immigration is a huge problem. Those supporting the illegals are welcoming just anyone in. I think to some, they have no clue how serious the issue really is. Strange how some understand and others twist things into what it isn't. For some, it doesn't matter how clear you make it, how many facts you have, they seem to have tunnel vision and everything is all lollipops and rainbows.

Originally posted by essanance
Stared and Flagged

It is time to take our country back and it is time for illegal aliens to stop hiding behind the race card and leave and not just Hispanics .ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS NEED TO BE REMOVED AND IT IS TIME TO SHUT THE DOOR THE WORLD HAS USED THE UNITED STATES FoR FAR TO LONG AND IT IS TIME FOR THIS COUNTRY TO WORRY ABOUT ITSELF !!!!

[edit on 24-5-2010 by essanance]

Why so serious? Sorry, couldn't resist with that avatar. You are absolutely right. It is time for America to worry about its citizens.

Warning for Profanity

I encourage you to watch all clips.

Keep in mind, we're in a recession:

The money that illegal immigrants spend on goods and services in their local communities and around the state "reverberates throughout the whole economy, creates more jobs, more spending and more revenue," he said. "The scale of economic benefit far outweighs any costs on the fiscal side."

Dr. Capps co-authored a 2007 study on immigrants in Arkansas. The study, which was funded by the Winthrop Rockefeller Foundation, found that the total economic impact of Arkansas' 100,000 immigrants (of which 51 percent are undocumented) on the state economy is nearly $3 billion. The Texas Comptroller study found that the 1.4 million undocumented immigrants living in Texas in 2005 contributed $17.7 billion to the state economy.

SRC: www.southcoasttoday.com.../20080702/NEWS/807020304

In a recession...

Democratic leaders have proposed requiring every worker in the nation to carry a national identification card with biometric information, such as a fingerprint, within the next six years, according to a draft of the measure.

SRC: thehill.com...

Just another step closer...en.wikipedia.org...

* Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

After Adolf Hitler's rise to power in 1933, the Nazis issued every person a permanent identity card. A "J" on the cover indicated that the person was Jewish. Each Jewish man's name was prefaced with "Israel" and each woman's name with "Sarah." Permanent yellow armbands were issued at a later time.

Quick numbers:

- Almost half of undocumented immigrants in the U.S. stayed after their visas expired, according to a 2006 estimate by the Pew Hispanic Center.

- About 6 million people come into the U.S. each year on non-immigrant visas, according to the U.S. Department of State.

- Since 2007, an estimated 300,000 individuals per year have stayed after their visas expired, according to Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

- From 2006 to 2009, federal officials developed a priority list of about 46,000 people believed to be in the U.S. after their visas expired, according to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. Of those, 1,800 were apprehended.

SRC: ktar.com...

Just thought this might help.

Since we aren't being racist here... And we agree that this bill won't be used to commit racial profiling... Then I guess every person living here or visiting here better carry a passport, birth certificate, photo ID, and other documents to prove they are American citizens.

According to a state senator in Texas:

Republican Rep. Debbie Riddle of Tomball says...

The new Arizona law would require local and state law enforcement to question people about their immigration status - and make it a crime for immigrants to lack registration documents.

Notice the use of the word "PEOPLE"

It doesn't state race... So I am guessing that if you did want to create a "Police State" and you did want to require people to prove they are "American" you would definitely want a law like this to pass.

Even though, I know this isn't a racist law... It still brings up memories of "Let me see your papers".

It sends a shiver down my spine that a law like this will "REQUIRE AMERICAN CITIZENS" to carry their papers to prove they are citizens.

Especially since America is a smelting pot full of different races and everyone here is an immigrant or descendant of an immigrant, except for the native Americans.

Maybe, the native American Indians won't have to carry any proof, but I as an American I sure don't like that fact that I have to prove that my blood bleeds Red, White, and Blue...

[edit on 24-5-2010 by Fakshon]

[edit on 24-5-2010 by Fakshon]

reply to post by Fakshon

It sends a shiver down my spine that a law like this will "REQUIRE AMERICAN CITIZENS" to carry their papers to prove they are citizens.

And.. what papers do you expect this to be? Someone says, grab your papers .. what would you grab? .. SS Card, Birth Certificate? .. Those are not the documents that will be asked for, because they can be faked easily.

A Drivers License and SS NUMBER (not card) are enough to verify a persons name, ss number, address, car registration, insurance etc.. if you have a fake ID, police will more often than not be able to tell.

Not all Illegals will be caught by this method either.. the unprepared illegal scamming the system who doesn't have a license, no SS number to verify, police can EASILY tell when someone is an illegal.


Relating this to "show me your papers" is ignorant to an extreme.. because NOTHING, read, NOTHING is actually changing .. the only thing changing is that when officers DO note someone is illegal, they can now arrest them.

Many states .. actually most, already make this a crime and police can already arrest illegals .. like Ohio, where I am from, police can arrest an illegal. Arizona, specifically Pheonix, run by Progressives have turned it into a Sanctuary City .. like Denver, LA, New York, Portland OR, Seattle etc.. mega cities, hubs for Progressives, make it illegal for police to question illegal status .. the AZ Law trumps the "Local" laws of Pheonix and let Police do their job.


Do some research next time.

Damned illegals! The other day a gang of them came up to me in a dark alley, beat the crap out of me(it was a gutless 4 vs 1, and one had a knife!) and took my job!

I wonder how Texas will do that and half of the population is from Mexico

Originally posted by FiatLux
So then your saying, if I get stopped for a traffic violation, the police dare not check to see if I have insurance, VIA MY INSURANCE PAPERS or if my drivers license is valid AND NOT FRAUDULENT?

No. I'm saying that, in my personal opinion, they should not have the right to additionally ask to see your social security card, ask for your SSN, ask to see a passport, a green card, etc. in an effort to establish your citizenship, because you are being stopped under reasonable suspicion of a traffic violation, not reasonable suspicion of an immigration violation.

The "reasonable suspicion" part would be normal, in the fact that this person has no valid insurance or valid drivers license. And race wouldn`t have a thing to do with it. They all would be checked.

If they didn't have a valid driver's liscense or any other valid form of identification, then perhaps it could be argued that reasonable suspicion regarding citizenship was met. That isn't what I'm talking about, though. I'm talking about people being stopped and asked to prove their citizenship just because police officers under these sorts of legislation have the power to do so.

Can you please show me in this law, where it allows the police to stop anyone on a "whim", just to confirm their citizenship? Please do show me this if I have missed that part.

I said, "virtually on a whim." That is my personal opinion and appraisal of this legislation. It states that where reasonable suspicion of illegal immigration exists, they can ask anyone, including legal citizens, to prove their legal citizenship. That's what the legislation says. It does not define what constitutes reasonable suspicion in my opinion.

Where in the Fourth Amendment does it say that breaking the law by not having citizenship documentation is ok and should be over looked?

It doesn't. It says I have the right to be secure in my papers unless probable cause or a warrant exists to the contrary. Stopping me for a traffic violation constitutes probable cause sufficient to ask to see my driver's license and registration. It does not constitute probable cause sufficient to ask me to prove my citizenship in my opinion.

How will anyone be able to tell if that person is legal or not, if they aren`t allowed to be checked out?

Good question. I don't have an answer to it. All I can do is state my own opinion, which is that these practices are mutually exclusive with our rights.

And if they are legal, what is there to worry about? If you check out ok, your on your merry way.

I still would feel as though my rights had been violated, however.

I respect your opinion and will agree to disagree.

[edit on 5/24/2010 by AceWombat04]

reply to post by prionace glauca


I am proud to live in the republic known as the "state of Ohio".

If the Union of States known as the "United States" refuses to enforce the rule of law on the immigration issue, the sovereign states have every legal right to do so under the 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

reply to post by AceWombat04


It looks to me like you are just looking for excuses to aid the illegals. What gives me that thought? Because, what you can`t find in this law, you just read into it what you think it will be. Like this....."I said, "virtually on a whim." That is my personal opinion and appraisal of this legislation". It doesn`t say that they can do this, but yet, you only think they will do it. Or, how about this. I stated to you..."How will anyone be able to tell if that person is legal or not, if they aren`t allowed to be checked out?". Your responce..."Good question. I don't have an answer to it. All I can do is state my own opinion". How about an opinion with an answer to the problem, and not an opinion that is based on what you think may happen or feel may happen?

Is this why people are all POed about this law? Because they "think" it says these things? And then to come on a world wide forum, and start the good old fear rumors for the whole world to see. Yeaaaa, way to go. Nothing like adding to the problems we already have.

Originally posted by Night Star

Originally posted by TheChemist187

Originally posted by Night Star
Wow! You just made my day!!!! Rhode Island is in there! Whoo Hoo!

So happy! Maybe I can find a job soon.

How lazy are you that your not even working? Really your only excuse is the mexicans took my job. And if your state passes this you say maybe I can find a job? So tell me what do you do now, how do you buy things? Do you just sit online all day and watch tv?

I am living off my savings. My busband is recieving disability due to diabetes complications. He lost a leg and is now learning how to walk with a prosthetic. I have an elderly mother that lives downstairs from me. I do not watch television as we have no reception and no cable. I have only had a computer for like 5 years and it is my only source of news and entertaintment. We live a simple life, have never owned a new car or a home of our own. I have only had a cell phone for a year and use it for emergencies only. To save money, I shop in second hand and dollar stores, clip coupons etc.

What do I do? I help my Mother by doing her housework as well as my own, I spend time helping my neice by watching her 2 year old son. I help my husband when he needs me. I make jewelry and will sell it in consignment in shops etc.

You assume I am lazy. You assume I am only blaming mexicans.

Think what you will. Here is what has been happening with my job search...

They tell me thay are sorry but their workers just went down to 4 day work weeks and they arn't hiring right now.

They say I am sorry but we just laid off a lot of people.

If I am not qualified and tell them I am willing to learn, They tell me experienced only.

Some factory jobs require you to be bilingual. I don't learn languages very well.

Most places just tell you they arn't hiring right now.

Some jobs that I could do if they were to hire me were just too far to travel to. I cannot afford to move.

Some places I couldn't apply to because you had to lift up to 50 pounds.

Anyway, that's how it's been. I really don't care what you think because you are not interested in debate, you just want to call me lazy.

People like that who make huge assumptions about everyone, make my brain ache !

I own a small construction company and I have people coming up to me literally begging me for work. They want t work, they'll do anything, they don't want to eat away their retirement or savings...they also don't want to be on unemployment or wellfare.

It's obvious the chemist leads a sheltered, inexperienced life.

NightStar, I applaud you for all you're doing and wish you the best

reply to post by jfj123


Thanks so much! I really appreciate that! That poster doesn't know me from a hole in the wall, waltzes in and just assumes things.

NC needs to do the same thing. The illegal population here is really high and getting worse by the day...come on NC what the heck are you waiting for. I am going to start sending letters and anybody else in NC who agrees with me should do the same.

So, I wonder, will LA boycott against all these states also?

Originally posted by FiatLux
It looks to me like you are just looking for excuses to aid the illegals. What gives me that thought? Because, what you can`t find in this law, you just read into it what you think it will be. Like this....."I said, "virtually on a whim." That is my personal opinion and appraisal of this legislation". It doesn`t say that they can do this, but yet, you only think they will do it.

The legislation states:

"For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person."

It is my opinion that the potential for abuse constituting abridgement of our fourth ammendment rights exists under this legislation, based on the language in it. You are free to disagree with my opinion, and I respect your own opinion.

Or, how about this. I stated to you..."How will anyone be able to tell if that person is legal or not, if they aren`t allowed to be checked out?". Your responce..."Good question. I don't have an answer to it. All I can do is state my own opinion". How about an opinion with an answer to the problem, and not an opinion that is based on what you think may happen or feel may happen?

I have the right to hold and express an opinion regarding this legislation and my opposition thereto. My right to such an opinion is not predicated upon it suggesting a solution or compromise to this situation or this legislation. In fact, my solution would be simply to not check them, at least not under the (in my opinion) broadly interpretable language of the aforementioned legislation. Again, you are free to disagree with my opinion, and I respect your own opinion.

Is this why people are all POed about this law? Because they "think" it says these things?

I can't speak for others or make inferences about their feelings. The legislation says what it says. We all, as in all things, interpret words differently. Such is human nature. Some people think it says one thing. Others think it says something else. If anything, in my opinion that suggests that there needs to be greater specificity and conciseness in the language of the legislation, so that such ambiguity may be lessened, if not eliminated.