17 States Now Filing Versions of Arizona bill

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Your first two examples do seem racist. Those individuals seem racist.

The post with the videos does not seem racist.

A lot of the attention when discussing illegal immigration in the US is going to be focused on Mexico and Mexicans. Why? Because they make up 57% of the illegal immigrants in this country.

How is that racist? You cant discuss illegal immigration in the US without singling out Mexico. It is the country who supplies the greatest number of illegals and it shares a border with the US.

Some of what you are calling racist is racist. But not everything relating to Mexico and Mexicans is racist.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

I hear a lot more personal stories of them working harder and doing a better job than I hear stories like yours saying they don't.

Please share them with us.

If they do such a bad job...then why would they get hired?

um because they're cheaper.
And the employer doesn't have to pay taxes on them.
etc...

Re-work or repairs to a poor job are generally more expensive than just doing it right the first time around.

Not necessarily.
Also keep in mind that if a builder uses illegals, the work only needs to last 18 months then it can fall apart.

OK prove it. Now remember you said A LOT OF RACISTS...not 1 or 2 but A LOT.

Ok...so you are going to pretend that a portion of the people on "your side" are not entirely focused on race???

You said A LOT .
You keep saying I should prove it so now it's your turn.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by jfj123

 

You or FiatLux have still not answered my question...I'll repeat it for you.


So tell me...mind reader...when I said I would welcome 1 billion people...did I think the US could support 1 billion people and have proof for that....or did I think I would welcome the 1 billion no matter the cost...even if it meant the collapse of our society??? Or hey...maybe I knew we couldn't support 1 billion people and it is my evil plan to take down American society...hmmm...so many possibilities.

You guys seem to be the mind readers...which one did I really think???



Come on guys...how did you know I was making the claim that the US can support 1 billion people IF I NEVER SAID THAT????

ASSume much???

Are we ASSuming? Because, if you DIDN`T mean it, you would`nt have stated it in the way that you did. So how can anyone tell? Sorry, if you only ASSume we are mind readers.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


its alot more than 57% man.

immigrationcounters.com...

22,803,903 illegals in america, of them, only 580,722 ARENT mexican

reply to post by FiatLux


Let me refresh your memory on the post you are wanting me to "prove".

"I support anyone who wants to come here and work for a better life. If that is 1 billion...then yes I support it."

The thing is...this is my opinion...I'm not making any statements of fact in here...just saying I support anyone who wants to come here.


YOU said that means I believe that the US can support 1 billion more people...when in fact I never said that...so exacly how do you know what I think when I didn't say it???


You are dodging the question and failing to pin a statement to me that I never made.

Simple yes/no question...did I ever SAY that the US can support 1 billion more people??? If I did...show me the quote of where I made that claim.

We had enough, the ship is full and will sink. I'T WILL FALL. tell me, what don't you get? We are taking out illegal aliens and we do not want anymore in the U.S.A. OK. This is not hard to understand. Go fix your country and live peacefully there.

Originally posted by nite owl
We had enough, the ship is full and will sink. I'T WILL FALL. tell me, what don't you get? We are taking out illegal aliens and we do not want anymore in the U.S.A. OK. This is not hard to understand. Go fix your country and live peacefully there.

Who are you talking to? What's with this ships full thing you keep mentioning?

Population denisty of:

US 32/km2
UK 254.7/km2
China 136.12/km2
Mexico 54.7/km2

The US has the most space in the boat out of these 4 countries, even more than mexico. The UK is loaded with almost 8 times the people per km2.

EDIT - info taken from wikipedia.


[edit on 24-5-2010 by daskakik]

reply to post by daskakik


Well you are oversimplifying just going by people per square mile or km.

Not all area supports human equally. Nor does that fact that other countries have squeezed more people in per square inch mean we should follow the same policy. We might want to keep some area wilderness.

You know this does tie in with another very unpopular issue, and that is, maybe if people had fewer babies, we wouldnt be having all this pressure from immigration. You know the cost of labor would go way up, and people around the world would have a better quality of life if we could just agree to keep the population at a level at which all people around the world could enjoy a good standard of living.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Well it is oversimplified but so is "Boats full. We're gonna sink if you come aboard".

I believe that whatever policy best suits the needs of the US is what should be adopted but I think that those pesky PTB keep manipulating to push their agenda.

Part of that could be making the citizens of the US believe that they are in a worst situation than they really are. Then just before everything falls apart they show up with the solution.

reply to post by GorehoundLarry


Actually I'm a darker skinned Hispanic and I'm really not concerned about this new bill. You know why? I am here legally and I do always carry my I.D. Hell I'll even carry my birth certificate and my SS with me if need be.

My grandparents immigrated to the U.S legally and assimilated by learning the language and taking pride in the fact that they were now citizens of the U.S. They taught my father to embrace the American culture that they worked so hard to become a part of.

I asked my grandmother what her thoughts were on this debate and she said it pains her to see so many people coming here bypassing the process that she and my grandfather did lawfully.

Life in Mexico is difficult however we must not forget that when the ship is sinking so to will it's lifeboat. The U.S cannot bare the weight of the world, as much as we would like to we just simply cannot save everyone.

I do not believe in this, "dumbing down" of my Mexican people. Apply for citizenship! If you can afford 3,000 - 4,000 to cross the California border then you can afford to do the paperwork to come here legally, if you think it's worth the wait (cause the cost to come legally is nothing compared to what is spent to cross the border)...if it's not worth the wait then you don't really want to be here. If you don't really want to be here ...DON'T COME HERE!

Originally posted by Night Star
Wow! You just made my day!!!! Rhode Island is in there! Whoo Hoo!

So happy! Maybe I can find a job soon.

Agreed, I believe that RI has over 40,000 illegals. Now I'm not sure if they are known or a best guesstimate, but I would rather see 40,000 US Citizens working instead of the illegals.

Being in RI myself, I almost fell out of my seat when I read it!

reply to post by daskakik


Maybe they are making it seem worse than it is, but you know my own suspicions are that we are not even being shown a fraction of how bad it is. I recently moved to Tennessee from New Mexico, and let me tell you. There is some serious poor in this state.

If you just watch television, you would think nothing is wrong. But if you call anyone who does anything to help find housing for the homeless. they are almost in tears with how bad the problem is.

I think that is something the rest of the world needs to know about the US media, it hides the truth about our situation. It doesnt show our dead soldiers bodies, it doesnt show us collateral (civilian casualties) damage from our corporate wars, and it doesnt show us the suffering in our own country.

We have horrible child mortality rates for an industrialized nation. Our poverty and homelessness is out of control, on most quality of life measures we arent even in the top ten, let alone number one. I think thats whats people mean when they say the boat is full. We are not taking care of our own people at this point. Our middle class is in a downward spiral. I think many Americans would just like the opportunity to work on our problems without having new ones sneak over the border.

I know not many countries will cry for us, seeing as how our government and their corporate masters are interfering all over the globe, but thats still how many of us feel. We need to get a handle on our government, and get them out of bed with big money, so we can prevent them from interfering all over the globe and we need to get our people out of the gutter again.

reply to post by crichton13


If that were in fact true then we would also have to agree that based on immigration laws currently held and enacted upon in Mexico that they to are a Nazi regime as well?

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by FiatLux

 

Let me refresh your memory on the post you are wanting me to "prove".

"I support anyone who wants to come here and work for a better life. If that is 1 billion...then yes I support it."

The thing is...this is my opinion...I'm not making any statements of fact in here...just saying I support anyone who wants to come here.

Ok, now, which ones do you support, the legals, or the illegals, or is it both? This is part of the problem, you give no clear responce to this part. Or are we to just guess which it is? I`m sorry, I meant to say, use our powers of mind reading to make that call?

YOU said that means I believe that the US can support 1 billion more people...when in fact I never said that...so exacly how do you know what I think when I didn't say it???

Your responce to the above question will tell enough, thanks.

You are dodging the question and failing to pin a statement to me that I never made.

Not in the least, but your doing a mighty fine job of it yourself.

Simple yes/no question...did I ever SAY that the US can support 1 billion more people??? If I did...show me the quote of where I made that claim.

Yes, I believe you did. Your responce to my question above will show enough, again, thanks.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


I find all this talk about " Racism " concerning Illegal Immigration to be nothing more than misguided Rethoric . There is a deeper truth to it , and it's main theme is Economics . Most Americans recognize the Threat to their Livelyhoods that Illegal Immigration poses , and it is just a matter of time before their social unrest rears it's Ugly head in Violent Confrontations . This will be a direct result of the Federal Goverments indifference to enforcing the Law , and the eventual Downfall of it's Political Power.......

[edit on 24-5-2010 by Zanti Misfit]

Originally posted by NinaSimone
reply to post by GorehoundLarry

 

Actually I'm a darker skinned Hispanic and I'm really not concerned about this new bill. You know why? I am here legally and I do always carry my I.D. Hell I'll even carry my birth certificate and my SS with me if need be.

My grandparents immigrated to the U.S legally and assimilated by learning the language and taking pride in the fact that they were now citizens of the U.S. They taught my father to embrace the American culture that they worked so hard to become a part of.

I asked my grandmother what her thoughts were on this debate and she said it pains her to see so many people coming here bypassing the process that she and my grandfather did lawfully.

Life in Mexico is difficult however we must not forget that when the ship is sinking so to will it's lifeboat. The U.S cannot bare the weight of the world, as much as we would like to we just simply cannot save everyone.

I do not believe in this, "dumbing down" of my Mexican people. Apply for citizenship! If you can afford 3,000 - 4,000 to cross the California border then you can afford to do the paperwork to come here legally, if you think it's worth the wait (cause the cost to come legally is nothing compared to what is spent to cross the border)...if it's not worth the wait then you don't really want to be here. If you don't really want to be here ...DON'T COME HERE!

Yes, very much so yes. A big thumbs up to your grandmother. And your last paragraph says it all. Thank you, and your family.

[edit on 24-5-2010 by FiatLux]

reply to post by NinaSimone


Do you honestly think your grandparents could come here legally today - - in the same way - - for the same reason? Obviously not for the same amount of money.

Were they sponsored by a relative?
Did they already have a sponsoring employer?
Did they have legal representation? (I hear many of the immigration lawyers are as big a crooks as the coyotes).

Legal/Illegal Yes!

Other then that - in all honesty - I do not see immigration from Mexico today - - the same as it was 2 or 3 generations ago.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


I agree with everything you wrote but I didn't just mean making people think things were bad but actually make things bad.

If TPTB are real and not just a figment of our paranoia then they can move against anything that you do to try to work on the problems you have.

The porous border is a good example of that. You have millions of citizens out of work and millions of illegals working. It's a no brainer but something is keeping this from being fixed.

You pass an AZ like law. They pass amnesty neither which really change anything.

You have homelessness on the rise but banks are demolishing perfectly good homes.

It just seems too deliberate.

reply to post by Zanti Misfit


I dont disagree with you. Illegal immigration does pose a threat to our economy. One thing I do wish is that Americans would be equally outraged and willing to take a stand against the way corporations are influencing our elections.

They have a lot to do with why our government will not act to stem the tide at the border.

reply to post by daskakik


You could be right. I dont know. I go back and forth over whether there actually is an organized conspiracy, with a plot, and steps, etc. I tend to lean most heavily on the side of "no, there really isnt."

People who naturally have the same motives will also act in ways that seem to be coordinated. I tend to think that because corporations all have essentially the same motive, (profit) and lack human emotions, they tend to end up behaving in ways that are eerily similar, when in fact, they are not conspirators but competitors. Much like humans all over the world behave very similarly, even though we dont organize and plan to.

My personal opinion is that as bad as it would be to have an international group of geniuses plotting against the worlds people, the truth is even worse.

The truth, (as I see it) is that we are blindly plowing ahead, and our leaders are only marginally more capable than the populace at large, (if that) and that greed is the propeller and we have no braking system other than catastrophe.

Thats what I think the truth is.