Mosque to go up near New York's ground zero

reply to post by muzzleflash


Okay, so lets say most Nazi's were christians. Then by your logic, churches would have to be banned also right?

Originally posted by Good Intentions
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

Okay, so lets say most Nazi's were christians. Then by your logic, churches would have to be banned also right?

Well this example doesn't fit so well.

The Brits, French, Canadians, Americans etc that fought against them were Christians too.

So we need a better example.

Like putting up a open KKK Meeting on a street that is predominantly black. It would be just BEGGING for trouble. This seems to fit a bit better.

That's been my point this whole time. It's inflammatory. Conflict is being generated by such an event.

reply to post by HooHaa


Also, I do not no about that whole martyred and the sacred land thing. However, if that were true, I would say that one Muslims definitions of martyed, would be completely different than anothers. I don't think most Muslim's see these people as true martyr's, so therefore you can't throw every Muslims into that categorie of using that mosque as a place of martyrdom. Of cource some might crazy extremists right, but you can't punish the masses for the faults of some.

[edit on 7-5-2010 by Good Intentions]

reply to post by Good Intentions


I'm not asking you to agree with me, it's your right not to. I never once in this thread said this is my opinion and everyone in the world has to agree with me. Like I've stated previously in this thread I'm not any religion (well Catholic, but I do not practice and have not been to church in years). You can think my statements are ignorant all you like, they're my opinions on the subject. I find it ignorant that people are trying so hard to be so P.C. all the time they forget. You are more than welcome to have your opinions on 911 and who the terrorists are/ were, I have my own. Also I have no doubt that Muslims in America have had a hard time since 911 and it's sad. But my opinion on this matter hasn't changed. I'm also not going to defend my character on a flippin forum. Have a good weekend

reply to post by blupblup


Thanks blupblup... and of course you are right

The reason i didn’t walk away was due to exactly what you just said... i cant let them win... and it does get demoralising when you are trying to argue with a group of them who use NO logic whatsoever in their arguments!

I also had a little smile when i see that the BNP got sweet FA in the election... however, they still got half a million votes.

Back on topic (sorry mods) this comparison, that i have been seeing, between a Nazi memorial and a mosque is ridiculous... as many people have already pointed out... Nazism is NOT a religion... it is a political ideology that has racist values at its core!!

Nowhere in Islam does it say that one race is superior to another...


"O Mankind!
Most certainly, it is
We( God almighty) who have
Created you all
From a single (pair)
Of a male and a female,
And it is we who
Have made you into
Nations and tribes,
That ye may recognise each other
(Not that ye may despise each other).
Verily, the noblest of you
In the sight of Allah
Is (he who is) the most
Righteous of you."
Holy Quran 49:13

"And mankind is naught but a single nation."
Holy Quran 2:213

A vast contrast to Nazi ideology...

We cannot blame over a billion Muslims for the warped misinterpretations of a few!

reply to post by muzzleflash


Okay? And there where probly many British, American, Canadian, etc, people who were Muslim victims in 9/11, also that are fighting in this war against terrorism. Nazi, is a group of people such as terrorist, who can have each individual person having a different religion.

Just because most Nazi's may have been Christian (not saying that's true, just an example), or most Terrorists have been Muslim's, doesn't make it logical to blame the faith. It is the organization that caused the grief, not the religion.

reply to post by Wondering302


Yes, you have your opinion and I have mine. Apologies for coming of rude. I took the post as a sort of attack against Muslims. And yes, no one should worry about having to defend their character online.

Also, what is P.C.?

[edit on 7-5-2010 by Good Intentions]

Originally posted by OnTheFelt

Originally posted by Wondering302
Sometimes I forget I'm on a conspiricy website and not a regular forum. I personally do not believe 9/11 was an inside job at least not totally. I do not trust our government one bit but this is too much IMO. forget it....take the country it's already falling apart (or fell apart long ago). Let's all just become Muslim, why the heck not. Hail Allah.....good god

You sir are an ignorant buffoon....and it is this very ideology and small thinking that has caused this world to fall on its head.

How ignorant and arrogant do you have to be to even think like this. You do realize there are 2 billion Muslims on the Earth today.

The United States makes up less than 5% of the world population but yet you act like it is 95%.

Keep on keeping that hate inside you towards those that aren't like you as you are doing exactly what your masters want you to do.

DENY IGNORANCE!

That's Ma'am thank you very much. There maybe 2 billion muslims in the world that's fine and dandy but I'm talking about the US. And I do not hate anyone. If I see a Muslim, black, latin person on the street I treat them as I would any other person, BUT I'm still of the opinion that (and let me phrase this better than I did in the OP) Muslim extremist were behind 911 and I do not trust them. Think what you want it's a free country....well...nevermind that's a whole other bag of worms. Have a good day

Originally posted by SpectreDC
By saying this you are essentially saying that all Muslims should be blamed for something a minor, radical few did. That all Muslims should take responsibility for what a few did. That is UNPRECEDENTED. Do all Catholics get called pedophiles because a few priests are, and should all Catholics stay away from children?

Ummmmmmm... YEAH! Most people would believe that about Catholic priests. I wouldn't allow my child near one for an overnighter etc. certainly never alone with one.

The media blasts pedophile Catholic Priests. Hello? Duh?

Pope publicly apologizes.

The media ignores Muslim Extremist murderers. Hello? Duh?

Extremists overseas rejoice.

There's nothing unprecedented.

What would be unprecedented would be assisting the extremists to their martyrdom and their heavenly virgins immediately.

What would be unprecedented would be 'normal muslims' demanding to be heard across the nation screaming that they are not extremists for their faiths' own good.

Even Obama has no passion claiming that he's 'christian' bah.

Yet he has passion during speeches overseas with a passionate muslim accent.

Until muslims scream from the tops of their mosques (not call to prayer) but demanding American's understand they are NOT the violent extremists that we see on daily basis the majority of American's will resent and look with suspicion on almost every muslim.

I'm not talking about those American's that have to tolerate muslims because it's part of their job. They are being paid to tolerate.

Muslim's will need to find their own solution to finding acceptance within America. Muslim's shouldn't expect that all American's will auto accept them because some freaks accept anybody into their fold.

Since we're stereotyping here... When you think of Italian... you think ... MOB... etc... Because the MOB stereotype was constantly associated with Italians. Not too many openly Italian Gangsters around these days.

Most people laugh at the Italian Gangster stereotype... Even Italians.

Muslim's are not amused. Look at South Park uproar. No sense of humor or humility breeds pure evil.

It may take a generation or two to rid Muslim's of the extremist stereotype, that change will only START to take place when the extremists have stopped the Jihad.

We all know that will never happen because of the pure evil hatred they visibly harbor and actively express.


[edit on 5·7·10 by DrMattMaddix]

reply to post by muzzleflash


Also, if N.Y. were predominately Christian, that would be more logical, however there is still freedom of religion. But, this is not opening a terrorist bulding, something equal to KKK. This is a Mosque, opening in an area full of many races, ethinicities, and religions. The fact that Muslim's are so correllated with terrorists is what make it seem like a slap in the fact, but you have to realize Terrorism does not equal Muslim.

Originally posted by Muckster

"And mankind is naught but a single nation."
Holy Quran 2:213

A vast contrast to Nazi ideology...

We cannot blame over a billion Muslims for the warped misinterpretations of a few!

Nice way to pick and choose to fit your opinions.

"Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)
"Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it." (Surah 2:216)
"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)
"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)

"If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

Seriously we could list tons of stuff. It's like Leviticus in the Bible.

But you were clearly quoting the Qur'an trying to make it look all peaceful and pretty. But there is another side to the story...

Just saying. lol.

I can't believe the amount of anti-Muslim stuff I've been reading on ATS lately--it's really disappointing to see people who I used to think so highly of make themselves into complete racist assholes.

And ATS was about denying ignorance? Hmmm...

reply to post by Good Intentions


It's all good, I typed up my OP so fast (i'm at work) I did not proof read it and I must admit that the first sentence did come off badly. Apologies....I'm actually better at speaking my mind than typing it...obviously. P.C. is politically correct....which I do try to be but my temper gets ahead of me sometimes.

reply to post by Wondering302


Yes, Muslim extremists are something to worry about. But it's not fair to limit the freedoms of regular muslims, because of a few muslims extremists, you get what i mean?

[edit on 7-5-2010 by Good Intentions]

Originally posted by OnTheFelt
You sir are an ignorant buffoon....and it is this very ideology and small thinking that has caused this world to fall on its head.

How ignorant and arrogant do you have to be to even think like this. You do realize there are 2 billion Muslims on the Earth today.

The United States makes up less than 5% of the world population but yet you act like it is 95%.

Keep on keeping that hate inside you towards those that aren't like you as you are doing exactly what your masters want you to do.

DENY IGNORANCE!

I missed that. That is NOT the way to post on ATS. Refrain from this in the future.

Originally posted by Wondering302
reply to post by Good Intentions

 

It's all good, I typed up my OP so fast (i'm at work) I did not proof read it and I must admit that the first sentence did come off badly. Apologies....I'm actually better at speaking my mind than typing it...obviously. P.C. is politically correct....which I do try to be but my temper gets ahead of me sometimes.

Lol now it seems obvious to me, I knew that but for some reason in this context it seemed like it might have meant something else. I hate the fact that everything has to be so politically correct nowadays also. It gets in the way of actually making progress on a problem, because were so concerned about what we say, and how others say it, that the message get's lost.

However, I am not tryin to be politically correct at all with my opinion, I am just tryin to be humane towards the freedoms of honest Muslims who have nothing to do with 9/11.

Originally posted by Good Intentions

Also, what is P.C.?

[edit on 7-5-2010 by Good Intentions]

PC = Politically Correct.

is a term which denotes language, ideas, policies, and behavior seen as seeking to minimize social and institutional offense in occupational, gender, racial, cultural, sexual orientation, disability, and age-related contexts.

the term “politically incorrect” connotes (or attempts to connote) language, ideas, and behavior unconstrained by a perceived orthodoxy and concerns about giving offense to or expressing bias regarding various groups of people.

en.wikipedia.org...


Now you know what PC is. It's used as a pejorative word usually in negative context..

[edit on 7-5-2010 by muzzleflash]

[edit on 7-5-2010 by muzzleflash]

Originally posted by OnTheFelt

Originally posted by Wondering302
Sometimes I forget I'm on a conspiricy website and not a regular forum. I personally do not believe 9/11 was an inside job at least not totally. I do not trust our government one bit but this is too much IMO. forget it....take the country it's already falling apart (or fell apart long ago). Let's all just become Muslim, why the heck not. Hail Allah.....good god

You sir are an ignorant buffoon....and it is this very ideology and small thinking that has caused this world to fall on its head.

How ignorant and arrogant do you have to be to even think like this. You do realize there are 2 billion Muslims on the Earth today.

The United States makes up less than 5% of the world population but yet you act like it is 95%.

Keep on keeping that hate inside you towards those that aren't like you as you are doing exactly what your masters want you to do.

DENY IGNORANCE!

For you to compare the USA and Our Constitution to some Muslim Theocracy with Sharia Law is absurd.

*))&^^&*&()_(&(*(
Censored

Originally posted by Good Intentions
This kind of thinkin is a slap in the face to all the muslim VICTIMS of 9/11, who have to suffer this kind of discrimination due to ignorance like yours. You may say thats what they get for being involved with that race.

For the sake of clarity, Muslim, is not a race. just saying....

Originally posted by Good Intentions
So letme use your logic against you, if you are catholic, you deserve to be treated like garbage due to the fact that there were many cases of sexual assault involving popes. Forget the fact that you have nothing to do with the case and are just an honest person pursuing your faith, you want to associate with that faith so you are guilty too.

This is completely out of context. If maybe you were trying to compare Mohamed marrying a 6 year old girl to the pedo priests, then prehaps, or if the Catholic Bible stated that the priests should go have sex with kids...then maybe.. that could be compared to edicts in the other book...

Originally posted by Good Intentions
Many of the recent terrorists have been muslims, but that does not mean many muslims are terrorists.

Actually, many Muslims ARE terrorists. this isn't to say ALL Muslims are terrorists, but really, many are.

Originally posted by Good Intentions
In reality though, if you want to talk about terrorizing in the name of faith, take a look at Isreal's issue with the Palestinians, the real reason for 9/11 in the first place. The Isrealies are murdering thousands of muslims in Palestine. We are involved in helping Isreal. So, is it not common sense that if someone were to attack us, it would mosty likely be a Muslim? If to you that sounds like all Muslims in the world are enforcing their beliefs on others, then I give up.
[edit on 7-5-2010 by Good Intentions]

Well, this makes very little sense. The whole Israel conflict is about land, not faith. who should have the right to live on the land..which may or may not be faith based depending on who you choose to side with.

Your saying that the Americans should be judged by the actions of their allies? Well that would really open a can of worms now wouldn't it. Considering the scope of America's allies.

It is true, that the Muslims are pushing their agenda to spread their religion, and although so do the Catholics I haven't heard of anyone being killed because they dropped out of being catholic. I also haven't seen the pope suggest running into a school with a bomb strapped to ones chest and detonating it in the name of ...blah blah blah.

I think what the OP is trying to say in this thread, is that many people still have deeply rooted feelings about 911. That many people would be gravely offended by putting a symbol of WHAT THEY BELIEVE contributed to the loss of their loved ones, in direct proximity to where those loved ones died.

It might be their "right" to put a Mosque that close, but it certainly isn't "right" to do so. If Muslims expect tolerance for their religion, they should respect others feelings as well. Like I said earlier, someone seems to show very poor judgment in that location selection, even if it is within their rights to build it.

..Ex

Originally posted by ProUSA
I can't believe the amount of anti-Muslim stuff I've been reading on ATS lately--it's really disappointing to see people who I used to think so highly of make themselves into complete racist assholes.

And ATS was about denying ignorance? Hmmm...

It's NOT racist.

OMG. Arabian, Jordanian, Israelite or just middle-eastern... Islam/Muslim isn't a fuggin race. It's a religion.

Who cares what you think anyhow.