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Mosque to go up near New York's ground zero

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posted on May, 7 2010 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by thomasblackraven
What would be the reaction of building an evangelical megachurch next to Mecca? Would it be stood for, or rebelled against? Why then is people's reactions here all that shocking?


Never going to happen. That kind of blatant spite for surrounding areas only fuels resentment.

It may not be illegal to build but current sentiments need to be a consideration.

Just because there isn't a law against urinating in a pitcher and pouring it on your hated neighbors lawn doesn't make it acceptable.

Just because Muslim gets the unanimous vote from city board means only two things...

1) Muslims knew that there was no reason for Supervisors to deny the building.

2) Supervisors knew there was no legal or formal way they would deny the building.

Muslim's look like they are playing by the rules.

Result; the building will create a target for the angriest of Americans and will further victimize the poor Muslims.

It won't change the fact that they (Muslims) are scratching at the scabs of New Yorkers with salted nails.



Muslims should know better than that... but then who has any consideration for their neighbor these days?




posted on May, 7 2010 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by End Of Babylon


The minorities like keeping themselves oppressed these days.


And I suppose islam is going to set them free? You may have something there, many minorities are converting to islam.

www.youtube.com...

I hear once you go islam you never go back. Not that you can.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by DrMattMaddix

Originally posted by thomasblackraven
What would be the reaction of building an evangelical megachurch next to Mecca? Would it be stood for, or rebelled against? Why then is people's reactions here all that shocking?


Never going to happen. That kind of blatant spite for surrounding areas only fuels resentment.

It may not be illegal to build but current sentiments need to be a consideration.

Just because there isn't a law against urinating in a pitcher and pouring it on your hated neighbors lawn doesn't make it acceptable.

Just because Muslim gets the unanimous vote from city board means only two things...

1) Muslims knew that there was no reason for Supervisors to deny the building.

2) Supervisors knew there was no legal or formal way they would deny the building.

Muslim's look like they are playing by the rules.

Result; the building will create a target for the angriest of Americans and will further victimize the poor Muslims.

It won't change the fact that they (Muslims) are scratching at the scabs of New Yorkers with salted nails.



Muslims should know better than that... but then who has any consideration for their neighbor these days?


By saying this you are essentially saying that all Muslims should be blamed for something a minor, radical few did. That all Muslims should take responsibility for what a few did. That is UNPRECEDENTED. Do all Catholics get called pedophiles because a few priests are, and should all Catholics stay away from children?



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 01:13 PM
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Originally posted by SpectreDC


Yes, the people that are dense are those who are looking at your comparison and explaining how it is completely off base.

It isn't the person who is constantly yelling the same comparison without offering an explanation on how they are similar (likely because there isn't), and just thinks repeating himself constantly makes him right.


No you said Freedom = allowing them to build Mosque

I proved this hypocritical by asking to allow a Nazi Memorial. Which actually should be allowed if this "Freedom" stuff is true.

I have also explained in depth how these things are exactly the same through the last 8pages of this thread.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


Your comparing apples to oranges and I'm sure you know that. I won't bother saying much more because it is obvious you would rather discuss this irrationally instead making a logical argument that can be taken seriously.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by SpectreDC

By saying this you are essentially saying that all Muslims should be blamed for something a minor, radical few did. That all Muslims should take responsibility for what a few did. That is UNPRECEDENTED. Do all Catholics get called pedophiles because a few priests are, and should all Catholics stay away from children?


But yet everyone says All Nazis hated Jews.

So it is NOT UNPRECEDENTED.

It's been happening world wide since 1944.


Blanket accusations and umbrella statements against Nazis are a dime a dozen these days.

Although in reality, many of them were not actually racist at all....unless you think the Pope hates Jews?



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by nunya13
reply to post by muzzleflash
 


Your comparing apples to oranges and I'm sure you know that.


1) They both grow on trees.
2) Both are fruits.
3) Both bear seeds.
4) Both taste good.
5) Both make juice.
6) Both are roughly the size of my fist.
7) Both come in many varieties.
8) Pests like to eat them.
9) Both are grown in the USA

Need I go on comparing apples and oranges?

You are making this way too easy on me. Try harder.

Like "You are comparing apples and iron bolts" or something.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 01:21 PM
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Your all Missing the "other view" of this situation.....

I see nothing wrong in building a few more mosques to ensure a place of worship for Muslims. that's cool with me.

BUT

This would also be seen as a victory to Muslim extremists, they destroy the World trade centers and then see a a shrine to Alla built almost in its place...

this is a victory to Muslim extremists, intentionally or not.

If I were a moderate Muslim, I would show some decorum & respect to what happened that day.
not because they should feel guilty for it...they shouldn't, there not to blame. but Muslim's with extreme Muslim views non the less killed all those people with a little help from Georgie boy.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by SpectreDC
Do all Catholics get called pedophiles because a few priests are, and should all Catholics stay away from children?


Good point. Going off of some people's line of reasoning, this should be the case. Pedophiles aren't allowed near schools. Catholics priests have commited pedophilia, therefore Catholic churches should not be built around schools because they are inhabited by Catholic priests who are pedophiles. I mean, we just can't be sure. It's really just to spite the little children.

These Catholics are scratching the scabs of these little children with salted finger nails by continuing to be located in areas that are in such close proximity to schools and daycares.

Seems perfectly logic to me.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by waynos
Its nice you both replied consecutively, I can address you both.

First, I am not equating Muslims with Communism or anything else. What I am drawing attention to, or trying to, is that for some reason, mostly America (but not exclusively) always seems to need a 'bad guy' to rally against. What is that all about?


fyi there really are bad guys and gals in the world and communism was and is a very morbid idealogy.


The McCarthyism of the 1950's is seen on this side of the Atlantic as a big joke, and yet when I mentioned it someone STILL leapt to defend it! Preposterous. Communism was not an illness, its an ideology that people (supposedly free thinking people in the case of the USA) could either accept or reject. There was never any prospect of it 'taking over', it simply doesn't fit 'the American way of life'. This should have been obvious, as it was in Europe, but the fear, propagated by our own governments (yes, ours too) was aimed at keeping everyone in line by giving them something else to be afraid of. and it worked.


I'm very glad it worked, because the damage communism does is like oil on birds, its very difficult to wash off and undue


Muslims are the fall guys now, and too many people are too stupid to see through it. If it wasn't them it would be somebody else. Nothing unites a nation behind its leaders better than 'us against them'.


Muslims are playing the victim card, and why not it seems to work here in gulible america.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by SpectreDC

By saying this you are essentially saying that all Muslims should be blamed for something a minor, radical few did. That all Muslims should take responsibility for what a few did. That is UNPRECEDENTED. Do all Catholics get called pedophiles because a few priests are, and should all Catholics stay away from children?


But yet everyone says All Nazis hated Jews.

So it is NOT UNPRECEDENTED.

It's been happening world wide since 1944.


Blanket accusations and umbrella statements against Nazis are a dime a dozen these days.

Although in reality, many of them were not actually racist at all....unless you think the Pope hates Jews?


It doesn't matter whether or not all Nazi's hated Jews because it was a known and accept aspect of Nazism. It isn't something that all of the people that were Nazi's thought independently from their belief, it was derived from their belief. It's IN their belief.

Now, while one could argue that just like I said above, that it's in Islam to be a terrorist because that is where the extremists get it from, the difference is that you're comparing a religious script that has multiple interpretations to a political ideology which has one and only one clear cut interpretation of it.

So it doesn't matter if not all Nazi's hated Jews, because Nazism in and of itself was against Jews. Islam though does not universally promote terrorism any more than Christianity promotes stoning well...anyone who does anything against Christianity. THAT is the difference and if you can't see that you are the one who is dense.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by gdeed

And I suppose islam is going to set them free? You may have something there, many minorities are converting to islam.

www.youtube.com...

I hear once you go islam you never go back. Not that you can.


Islam is a joke and the Koran is toilet paper.
Yes it's true, once your in Islam it's worse than a mangled car wreak.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by TrentReznor

This would also be seen as a victory to Muslim extremists, they destroy the World trade centers and then see a a shrine to Alla built almost in its place...

this is a victory to Muslim extremists, intentionally or not.



And going against our freedoms isn't a victory when the reason why Muslim extremists hate us is "cause of our freedomz!"?



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by SpectreDC


It doesn't matter whether or not all Nazi's hated Jews because it was a known and accept aspect of Nazism. It isn't something that all of the people that were Nazi's thought independently from their belief, it was derived from their belief. It's IN their belief.


So you ignored all the Muslim clerics demanding that all Jews be killed?

It happens really often, I've seen at least 100+ of them begging to kill Jews.

So your statement applies here perfectly. Let me redo the wording to make sense of this.

""It doesn't matter whether or not all Muslims's hated Jews because it was a known and accept aspect of Islam. It isn't something that all of the people that were Muslims thought independently from their belief, it was derived from their belief. It's IN their belief. ""

You call me dense but you're the one ignoring their calls for the eradication of Jews.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


Alright, I'll play your game..

You said erecting a memorial of Heinrich Himmler next to a Holocaust Museum is no different than erecting a Muslim Mosque next to ground zero.

Who's Heinrich Himmler?

Wiki


As overseer of the concentration camps, extermination camps, and Einsatzgruppen (literally: task forces, often used as killing squads), Himmler coordinated the killing of some six million Jews, between 200,000 and 500,000 Roma,[1][2] many prisoners of war, and possibly another three to four million Poles, communists, or other groups whom the Nazis deemed unworthy to live or simply "in the way", including homosexuals, people with physical and mental disabilities, Jehovah's Witnesses and members of the Confessing Church.


So let's put up a memorial for a guy who was an integral part of the murder of the same people being memorialized in the holocaust museum you suggest it should go up next to.

Now, if Muslims wanted to erect a memorial to those (supposed) terrorists who died while flying the planes into the towers next to ground zero, I'd be much, much more inclined to agree with your sentiments. However, I cannot do so when you are trying to say that a place in which people HAPPEN to practice the same faith that these terrorists also partook in is a slap in the face to American's.

Apple's to oranges my friend. The whole point of the statement is that your making a mistake in comparing two things that seem similar but are in fact quite different. Different color, texture, taste, smell, etc.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by SpectreDC


It doesn't matter whether or not all Nazi's hated Jews because it was a known and accept aspect of Nazism. It isn't something that all of the people that were Nazi's thought independently from their belief, it was derived from their belief. It's IN their belief.


So you ignored all the Muslim clerics demanding that all Jews be killed?

It happens really often, I've seen at least 100+ of them begging to kill Jews.

So your statement applies here perfectly. Let me redo the wording to make sense of this.

""It doesn't matter whether or not all Muslims's hated Jews because it was a known and accept aspect of Islam. It isn't something that all of the people that were Muslims thought independently from their belief, it was derived from their belief. It's IN their belief. ""

You call me dense but you're the one ignoring their calls for the eradication of Jews.


So a majority of Muslim clerics are demanding that all Jews be killed?

Considering there are what, 2 billion Muslims on the planet, I find this hard to believe. In fact, I think you're full of # to begin with.

And I thank you for ignoring the bit about how "all religions have multiple interpretations". You know, because if you haven't ignored that bit, your post would have seemed really stupid. Because it is really stupid.

But hey, now you're not just a dense bigot, you're disingenuous as well. So please, keep making my case more by ignoring more points I've made. Because I mean, you couldn't be ignoring them for any other reason besides the fact that it completely dismantles the case your presenting to begin with.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


Mosque to go up near New York's ground zero


Let them build a Japanese cultural center next to the Arizona memorial.


FLAME ON!

I say if they want to build it then so be it. That doesn't mean I'll frequent it. People really need to ask themselves this though. WHY? Can you say AGENDA? I have yet to meet a completely ignorant Muslim [I'm sure they are out there] They have to obviously know what kind of Sh!t Storm this is going to cause.

To me the US is greater than the sum of its parts. Manhattan is a big place there are tons of locations this center could go up and cheaper.

I say AGENDA.




Oh and by the way I'm also Native Mescalero Indian.


[edit on 7-5-2010 by SLAYER69]



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by End Of Babylon

Islam is a joke and the Koran is toilet paper.
Yes it's true, once your in Islam it's worse than a mangled car wreak.


Wow! really? and yet americans are converting to islam in record numbers.
this is a free country, for now, and they can do that.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by worldwatcher

Those against building a mosque in the most multicultural city in the US need to remember that Muslims who were not the hijackers also died in 911.


And not every Nazi killed Jews.

So, how about that Nazi Memorial in Israel?

Just saying. It appears everyone wrongly judges all Nazis as bad.

***Just playing Devil's advocate here, I personally detest what Nazis stood for***

So I guess what the point is, that most people detest what the Islamic Political system stands for. (Just like Christianity was a political system for over a thousand years).

I see no difference between any of those ideologies.

Nazi, Communist, Christian, Islamic, Republican, Democrat. It's all the same to me.

Just some jerk telling me how to live/think/believe/act. All the same to me.

Now explain to me, WHY IS IT WRONG to put a Nazi Memorial in Israel???

Explain it I am all ears.

This will be a very fun debate.


Idiot, it's not at all comparable.
They are not talking about making a memorial for the people who killed all the people in WTC, whoever that was, they are talkin about a mosque.

Do you see the difference?

Jeez louise!



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by SpectreDC


And going against our freedoms isn't a victory when the reason why Muslim extremists hate us is "cause of our freedomz!"?

I know what your kind of saying there in a way.

but freedomz to do what exactly? show disrespect to the families of the lost ones??
were not loosing any "freedomz"

I have freedomz but that does not give me the right of passage to go piss on the graves of dead people. or what would seem to be by the families.

they can build the mosque somewhere else in NY. its called being respectful, not givving our freedomz away at all.








[edit on 7-5-2010 by TrentReznor]



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