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Mosque to go up near New York's ground zero

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posted on May, 7 2010 @ 03:29 PM
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I have read only the first op and have skipped all of the replies, because i hope no one has reacted over this yet. DONT.
TPTB have hidden this knowing that adding a mosque by hiding it within the others would cast fog over what it really is.
They know that this is going to cause a stir and i hope you dont rise to it. Its planned.
To get your backs up and incite violence.


Of course it will touch a nerve with the Americans, we`re only human its one of our qualities, we would all feel the same if the shoe was on the other foot?
Even if say an englishman went and put a church somewhere that person(s) was killed while detonating a device killing many? You would be a bit pist? It`ll feel like a slap in the face followed by a laugh?

Well dont rise to it.
They are segregating you infact all of us in many different ways, yet many still fail to see it.
Its soul crushing to watch.




posted on May, 7 2010 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by Muckster
reply to post by blupblup
 


Thanks blupblup... and of course you are right


The reason i didn’t walk away was due to exactly what you just said... i cant let them win... and it does get demoralising when you are trying to argue with a group of them who use NO logic whatsoever in their arguments!

I also had a little smile when i see that the BNP got sweet FA in the election... however, they still got half a million votes.

Back on topic (sorry mods) this comparison, that i have been seeing, between a Nazi memorial and a mosque is ridiculous... as many people have already pointed out... Nazism is NOT a religion... it is a political ideology that has racist values at its core!!

Nowhere in Islam does it say that one race is superior to another...


"O Mankind!
Most certainly, it is
We( God almighty) who have
Created you all
From a single (pair)
Of a male and a female,
And it is we who
Have made you into
Nations and tribes,
That ye may recognise each other
(Not that ye may despise each other).
Verily, the noblest of you
In the sight of Allah
Is (he who is) the most
Righteous of you."
Holy Quran 49:13

"And mankind is naught but a single nation."
Holy Quran 2:213

A vast contrast to Nazi ideology...

We cannot blame over a billion Muslims for the warped misinterpretations of a few!





NAZI-ISM IS A RELIGION.
IT IS A BELIEF IN THE GERMANS DESCENDING FROM ATLANTEAN GODS WHO INTERBRED WITH HUMANS AND THAT BY RACIAL PURIFICATION
THEY COULD RECAPTURE SOME OF THAT DIVINITY.

*^*)&^&)(*^&**($$%$%#
Censored



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash
Nice way to pick and choose to fit your opinions.

"Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)
"Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it." (Surah 2:216)
"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)
"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)

"If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

Seriously we could list tons of stuff. It's like Leviticus in the Bible.

But you were clearly quoting the Qur'an trying to make it look all peaceful and pretty. But there is another side to the story...

Just saying. lol.


Indeed, Thank you for quoting that.

I have a Quran and it's not easy reading... but interesting.

I would recommend getting a copy of it.

After you read some you won't be converted easily.

I could pick on what I believe to be Character Flaws that cause someone to convert from anything into islam but I would certainly be in T&C violation.

THANK YOU THANK YOU for quoting that... It scratches the surface.
starred

Edit to add: The Jihad is infinite!

Biblical references in the old testament are of a historic nature; goals of violence are well defined and finite. Very violent at times but finite.


[edit on 5·7·10 by DrMattMaddix]



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by DrMattMaddix

It's NOT racist.

OMG. Arabian, Jordanian, Israelite or just middle-eastern... Islam/Muslim isn't a fuggin race. It's a religion.

Who cares what you think anyhow.



So we should hate a religion because of what a few people did within that religion. That isn't hateful or bigoted at all



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by RRokkyy


NAZI-ISM IS A RELIGION.
IT IS A BELIEF IN THE GERMANS DESCENDING FROM ATLANTEAN GODS WHO INTERBRED WITH HUMANS AND THAT BY RACIAL PURIFICATION
THEY COULD RECAPTURE SOME OF THAT DIVINITY.


TY so Much!!!

Someone actually knows History !

RRokkyy you Rock!

You are like one of the only people that knew that!

It's totally true too! Their propaganda has that stuff plastered all over it. Hard to miss if you study WW2



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 03:40 PM
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Yes your right, Muslim is not a race, if that's what I implied, apologies. My point with the pope was that the fault of one person, should not cause other honest followers to be put under the same label. Yes, there are many Muslims who are terrorists, but there are WAY more who are honest, and pursuing their faith.

I didn't say America should be judged solely on the actions of their allies. If you are unaware, we are involved in giving them aid for war, and indirectly support what they are doing. So no, we should not be punished for what our allies did, however if we are involved in what they are doing, that is a different story. Many of these terrorists, are trying to make the masses aware that our country is involved. (Altough violence is never the answer).

Also, I get what your saying about the emotions of 9/11 victims and families, but what about the Muslim ones? Would they not be offended that they cannot build a mosque their? I get what you mean that we should'nt build it there because of what people believe to be the cause, but is it really okay to limit what some relgions can do, because some refuse out of high emotions, to understand that not all Muslims are to blame?



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 03:41 PM
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Well since we're quoting hateful religious scripture used to vilify an entire religion, ignoring that a majority of these passages aren't recognized by the vast majority of their followers, I'll continue!


Stand in silence in the presence of the Sovereign LORD, for the awesome day of the LORD's judgment has come. The LORD has prepared his people for a great slaughter and has chosen their executioners. "On that day of judgment," says the LORD, "I will punish the leaders and princes of Judah and all those following pagan customs. Yes, I will punish those who participate in pagan worship ceremonies, and those who steal and kill to fill their masters' homes with loot. "On that day," says the LORD, "a cry of alarm will come from the Fish Gate and echo throughout the newer Mishneh section of the city. And a great crashing sound will come from the surrounding hills. Wail in sorrow, all you who live in the market area, for all who buy and sell there will die. "I will search with lanterns in Jerusalem's darkest corners to find and punish those who sit contented in their sins, indifferent to the LORD, thinking he will do nothing at all to them. They are the very ones whose property will be plundered by the enemy, whose homes will be ransacked. They will never have a chance to live in the new homes they have built. They will never drink wine from the vineyards they have planted. "That terrible day of the LORD is near. Swiftly it comes – a day when strong men will cry bitterly. It is a day when the LORD's anger will be poured out. It is a day of terrible distress and anguish, a day of ruin and desolation, a day of darkness and gloom, of clouds, blackness, trumpet calls, and battle cries. Down go the walled cities and strongest battlements! "Because you have sinned against the LORD, I will make you as helpless as a blind man searching for a path. Your blood will be poured out into the dust, and your bodies will lie there rotting on the ground." Your silver and gold will be of no use to you on that day of the LORD's anger. For the whole land will be devoured by the fire of his jealousy. He will make a terrifying end of all the people on earth. (Zephaniah 1:7:18 NLT)



"I will sweep away everything in all your land," says the LORD. "I will sweep away both people and animals alike. Even the birds of the air and the fish in the sea will die. I will reduce the wicked to heaps of rubble, along with the rest of humanity," says the LORD. "I will crush Judah and Jerusalem with my fist and destroy every last trace of their Baal worship. I will put an end to all the idolatrous priests, so that even the memory of them will disappear. For they go up to their roofs and bow to the sun, moon, and stars. They claim to follow the LORD, but then they worship Molech, too. So now I will destroy them! And I will destroy those who used to worship me but now no longer do. They no longer ask for the LORD's guidance or seek my blessings." (Zephaniah 1:2-6 NLT)



So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.



The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse."



Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes. (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


I can only say this...



[edit on 7-5-2010 by FraternitasSaturni]

[edit on 7-5-2010 by FraternitasSaturni]



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by Good Intentions
 


I do understand your point, but I still can't see the good in putting this Mosque so close to ground zero. Look at this thread for an example, peoples emotions were flaring and we're just an on-line community think of what may happen in society. I did state in my OP that I'm not against putting up mosques in New York City or anywhere else, my question was why ground zero. And then my temper went off. Apologies for that again.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 03:42 PM
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Wait, I got more!


Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)



Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)



Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)



Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)



Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)



Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)



Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)



Death for Fornication

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)



Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)



Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)



Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)



Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)



Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)



Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)



2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)



Death for Blasphemy

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


Okay, you got me on that one. I didn't know Nazism was a religion, but the message is still their. Let's pretend for a second Nazism wasn't the religion, or do you really need me to recrate a new example? In that case, I am going to work and youll get your example in about 24 hours.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 03:44 PM
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And by the way, I'm readily awaiting the response saying "Those are all the old testament" in which I'll remind them that Jesus says the old testament should still be followed.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 03:45 PM
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So I just finished up my Christianity, Judaism and Islam class in college. From what i learned, roughly 1-5% of the worlds muslims believed the 9/11 attacks were justified. Islam is a rather peaceful religion for the most part. There are those extreme groups like the Wahabbi who give Islam a bad name(seeing how they promote the use of violence and terrorism to spread Islam for Allah.) And the wahabbi dont speak for all muslims.
I can still see how some would get bothered over the mosque being built so close to ground zero. But in my opinion I say let them build it. If we keep arguing over stuff like this, then we will never learn religious tolerance thus never being able to fully coexist.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 03:46 PM
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There are way too many incidents happening recently that have muslim attachments. Fort Hood. The 'underwear bomber' Various 'shoe bombers'. The incident in Times Square.

All with muslim players. They all want to disrupt our way of life. Why? Why don't they just go home and play their al Qaeda games in their own back yards? Leave us alone.

I don't like them and won't pretend I do. Not until the supposedly 'peaceful ones' put an end to this by standing up and loudly denouncing their opposition to these wild-eyed wackos.

But we never hear of 'mainstream muslims ' marching in protest against these radicals. I have to wonder why?

I wouldn't want a mosque so close to Ground Zero. They are just spitting in our eye to build it there. And please don't bore me with any 'there's no proof they did 9/11' bullcrap. The fact that they picked that site to build their mosque is proof enough for me.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
reply to post by muzzleflash
 


I can only say this...



[edit on 7-5-2010 by FraternitasSaturni]

[edit on 7-5-2010 by FraternitasSaturni]


That hilarious.

TY for bringing light to this situation!


I agree 100% with that photo's point.

I knew this would be a fun debate lol.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by Destiny Curious
 



So I just finished up my Christianity, Judaism and Islam class in college. From what i learned, roughly 1-5% of the worlds muslims believed the 9/11 attacks were justified. Islam is a rather peaceful religion for the most part. There are those extreme groups like the Wahabbi who give Islam a bad name(seeing how they promote the use of violence and terrorism to spread Islam for Allah.) And the wahabbi dont speak for all muslims.
I can still see how some would get bothered over the mosque being built so close to ground zero. But in my opinion I say let them build it. If we keep arguing over stuff like this, then we will never learn religious tolerance thus never being able to fully coexist.


It has nothing to do with religious tolerance. And I don't know the source for your numbers, but I guarantee they are very low.

And how you can say that "Islam is a rather peaceful religion for the most part" is beyond me. They not only denigrate women, they murder them for many reasons in the name of Allah. They do the same to homosexuals and apostates. You call that 'peaceful'?



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by mishigas
reply to post by Destiny Curious
 



So I just finished up my Christianity, Judaism and Islam class in college. From what i learned, roughly 1-5% of the worlds muslims believed the 9/11 attacks were justified. Islam is a rather peaceful religion for the most part. There are those extreme groups like the Wahabbi who give Islam a bad name(seeing how they promote the use of violence and terrorism to spread Islam for Allah.) And the wahabbi dont speak for all muslims.
I can still see how some would get bothered over the mosque being built so close to ground zero. But in my opinion I say let them build it. If we keep arguing over stuff like this, then we will never learn religious tolerance thus never being able to fully coexist.


It has nothing to do with religious tolerance. And I don't know the source for your numbers, but I guarantee they are very low.

And how you can say that "Islam is a rather peaceful religion for the most part" is beyond me. They not only denigrate women, they murder them for many reasons in the name of Allah. They do the same to homosexuals and apostates. You call that 'peaceful'?


I'm glad you have such powerful and firm guarantees without any sources.

I also like how you think 2 billion muslims act like how you suggest even though you don't have any legitimate evidence suggesting so except what is propagated on main stream media. But hey, since it's something you agree with, it must be true



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by DrMattMaddix

It's NOT racist.

OMG. Arabian, Jordanian, Israelite or just middle-eastern... Islam/Muslim isn't a fuggin race. It's a religion.

Who cares what you think anyhow.



Oh really, being Muslim isn't a race?! I had no idea


Obviously, hating Muslims is being racist by association. Because you probably hate 90% of the Middle East. But, title it however you'd like, it doesn't change anything


And I really don't care if YOU, random guy on the Internet, care what I think or not. But your prejudice is a poison to this world and the more you spread it, the more stupid you become.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by DrMattMaddix

Originally posted by ProUSA
I can't believe the amount of anti-Muslim stuff I've been reading on ATS lately--it's really disappointing to see people who I used to think so highly of make themselves into complete racist assholes.

And ATS was about denying ignorance? Hmmm...


It's NOT racist.

OMG. Arabian, Jordanian, Israelite or just middle-eastern... Islam/Muslim isn't a fuggin race. It's a religion.

Who cares what you think anyhow.



I regret that i can only give one star. All too often the "race" card is played when Race has nothing to do with it.... well stated.

..ex



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by SpectreDC
And by the way, I'm readily awaiting the response saying "Those are all the old testament" in which I'll remind them that Jesus says the old testament should still be followed.


As they should be followed... They are commands just like Jihad.

But it's all fuggin illegal!!! Which is why we have varying degrees of MURDER Charges in law. You figure out that part. *hint* Crimes of passion... Meaning God will not hold it against you. Premeditated murder is against God's laws and almost EVERY country on Earth.

If you can't reconcile your plagiarized quote... God help you.

We still have capital punishment for the morons that break the laws.

We should have already executed Mr. Jihad from Fort Hood shooting fame.
 

Jesus commands to follow the 'ordinances'.

Besides, Plagiarizing someone else's (some other website's) talking points is very weak.

You make no point from yourself or your thoughts. VOID.
 


The topic is "Wouldn't it have been really considerate of New Yorkers anguish, if the muslims decided to create their mosque far from 'ground zero'"

But NO WAY... Where are the Muslim Outreach programs to help the needy, hungry, homeless... OMG It almost seems like they are selfish little monsters coming to America to leech goodness from good people with great religious values.

Until American's see that ... Sorry to say that Muslim's look like terror cells in waiting.



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