Mosque to go up near New York's ground zero

Originally posted by muzzleflash
So you ignored all the Muslim clerics demanding that all Jews be killed?

You're a hypocrit sir. It's that simple. You're a bigot.

Watch now as I verify this.

So all muslims must be held accountable for the actions of a few who happen to share their beliefs? And because those few happen to be on the other side of the world in tyrannical authoritarian positions?

Let's bring this back home for a second.

KKK - my FAVORITE example of white hypocrisy.

So you ignored all the (white christian) KKK leaders demanding to kill all the blacks, jews, homosexuals, etc, etc.

Why aren't we then boycotting all Christians?

After all these KKK members ARE Christians. And by your logic. One ruins it for the whole lot.

Originally posted by TrentReznor
Originally posted by SpectreDC

And going against our freedoms isn't a victory when the reason why Muslim extremists hate us is "cause of our freedomz!"?

I know what your kind of saying there in a way.

but freedomz to do what exactly? show disrespect to the families of the lost ones??
were not loosing any "freedomz"

I have freedomz but that does not give me the right of passage to go piss on the graves of dead people. or what would seem to be by the families.

they can build the mosque somewhere else in NY. its called being respectful, not givving our freedomz away at all.

[edit on 7-5-2010 by TrentReznor]

I'm not arguing whether they should do this, but if they have the right to. And they have the right to practice their religion, even if it might be seen as disrespectful with where it is placed. But does that means that we should recant on our principles and give in to the perceived attack on our freedoms those alleged to have committed the attack by disallowing them the ability to build a mosque?

Again, pedophiles aren't allowed to be near children. Some Catholic priests are pedophiles. Should Catholic churches not be built near children or allow children to practice Catholicism?

And beyond all that, when you're saying that it is disrespectful for a mosque to be built near the WTC, you're saying all Muslims are terrorists. That's the perception what is being said here gives off regardless of whether or not that's what you actually think. And I don't think that is right.

Oh please folks grow up.

You were attacked by Muslim Extremists (If you believe that..) not Islam.

It's not going to be a terrorist training camp, it's not going to be anything else but a place of faith. Where people will gather and pray.

So much misplaced fear of Islam in America..

~Keeper

Many here seem to have tunnel vision when it comes to 911. Anyone wonder what it's been like for Muslims in America since 911? Ask one and don't be marveled at the harassment and anger that they've endured. Hell, here in Canada some morons desecrated a Sikh temple thinking it was Muslim after 911. If I was a Muslim I'd be like, "You're building a mosque where? Are you out of your mind?"

Originally posted by SmokeandShadow
reply to post by Wondering302

 

I think, unless it is you're property, there should be no institutional buildings of any religious kind. In other words, tear down the churches and mosques and have bible study or quran study in the you're home.

I myself am not religious at all. I believe in a God of some sort and that's about it. I've often thought if the world would be better without religion and I'm not sure that it would. I think that the majority of people need to believe in something higher than themselves and it makes them better people, except of course in cases of extreme religious beliefs weather it be Islam, Christianity or whatever. My concern with having no religion at all would be a situation like China where if I'm correct they pretty much "worship" the government and the government controls their lives, not their own personal beleif system......sighs it's very complicated.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Oh please folks grow up.

So much misplaced fear of Islam in America..

~Keeper

It's not just the US have you read any of the replies in this thread?

Burqa ban is 'un-Australian' say Muslims

I'm just saying is all.

reply to post by SpectreDC


Hmmm perhaps your right,

but I'm not calling all Muslims terrorists,

and your correct they do have the right to build it there..

but why there? why would they want to?
sure they have the right and freedom to build it anywhere they like.

you have to ask these questions as to why there where Muslim Extremists maimed all those people??

why there and so close???

why
why and why?

and the reason that they have the freedom to and the right to does not make it anymore palatable to me.

its not right.

I wouldn't do it.

reply to post by muzzleflash

Last I checked the IRA vs Brit issue was very heavily religious.

Catholic vs Protestant.

So were the Inquisitions. Catholic vs Protestant.

They were very heavily religious extremism issues.



Steve Bruce, sociology professor at the University of Aberdeen, wrote:
The Northern Ireland conflict is a religious conflict. Economic and social considerations are also crucial, but it was the fact that the competing populations in Ireland adhered and still adhere to competing religious traditions which has given the conflict its enduring and intractable quality(9)


en.wikipedia.org...
9.Steve Bruce (1986). God Save Ulster. Oxford University Press. p. 249. ISBN 0192852175.



Reviewing the book, David Harkness of the The English Historical Review agreed "Of course the Northern Ireland conflict is at heart religious"

Exactly... this proves my point! No one has suggested not building churches near IRA bombing sites and nobody labels them as Catholic terrorists!

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Oh please folks grow up.

So much misplaced fear of Islam in America..

~Keeper

It's not just the US have you read any of the replies in this thread?

Burqa ban is 'un-Australian' say Muslims

I'm just saying is all.

Ohh I agree Slayer, it's world wide at this point.

It just seems like the US has this " I don't care what they are about, I'm just going to hate them." mentality about Islam and Middle Eastern folk in general.

It's quite sad. I am aware of some Canadian incidents as well, but IMO we are far more integrated with other nationalities than the US, mostly because of the Mosaic culture we promote.

~Keeper

reply to post by SLAYER69




Yeah man... plus all the BNP threads and UK politics threads...

People are ignorant and bigoted all over ATS.
People selectively choose to blame an entire group in one breath and then play down the actions of another when it doesn't fit their agenda.

It's becoming a massive issue on ATS right now.

You can't discuss politics, religion or numerous other topics without someone blaming it on all the Muslims and how they're taking over the world.

It's getting beyond annoying.

Originally posted by gdeed


fyi there really are bad guys and gals in the world and communism was and is a very morbid idealogy.

I figured that out. Just like I figured that said 'bad guys' can be from any colour, nationality or faith. We all have our misogynists, unfortunately.
I also did not defend Communism. Shame you missed the entire gist ofv what was said there.

I'm very glad it worked, because the damage communism does is like oil on birds, its very difficult to wash off and undue

But thats the point, IT DIDN'T 'WORK'. How do you suppose it worked? Because America is not now a Communist state? Oh, that proves it and is not at all a feeble minded conclusion, If you cannot grasp that the whole thing was based on a falsehood then I cannot help you. Its a shame you can't ask the likes of Charlie Chaplin, James Cagney and Sam Wanamaker, amongst many others, how completely brain dead the whole exercise was.

Muslims are playing the victim card, and why not it seems to work here in gulible america.

Some do, yes. Like some people play the racist card. The operative word being *some*. Anyway, I got it off my chest. Hope you are happy in your monchrome world.

reply to post by blupblup


Spot on blupblup

The some of the ignorance i have witnessed lately is beyond belief... I have seriously considered walking away from ATS lately

I cant help but wonder if there is some kind of cyberactivism going... Here is a thread that i started about exactly this issue...

BNP and Cyberactivism

[edit on 7-5-2010 by Muckster]

Hey OP, are you telling me that not one of those victims that died in 9/11 was a muslim? You have said some pretty ignorant things in that post, which I don't wish to debate, but I just want you to think about the fact that the people who are offended by this, do not represent all 9/11 victims.

This kind of thinkin is a slap in the face to all the muslim VICTIMS of 9/11, who have to suffer this kind of discrimination due to ignorance like yours. You may say thats what they get for being involved with that race.

So letme use your logic against you, if you are catholic, you deserve to be treated like garbage due to the fact that there were many cases of sexual assault involving popes. Forget the fact that you have nothing to do with the case and are just an honest person pursuing your faith, you want to associate with that faith so you are guilty too.

Many of the recent terrorists have been muslims, but that does not mean many muslims are terrorists.

In reality though, if you want to talk about terrorizing in the name of faith, take a look at Isreal's issue with the Palestinians, the real reason for 9/11 in the first place. The Isrealies are murdering thousands of muslims in Palestine. We are involved in helping Isreal. So, is it not common sense that if someone were to attack us, it would mosty likely be a Muslim? If to you that sounds like all Muslims in the world are enforcing their beliefs on others, then I give up.


[edit on 7-5-2010 by Good Intentions]

reply to post by Muckster




Don't walk away man, That's what they want.

It's been this way since I joined unfortunately and usually the Bigots and Racists and Xenophobes and Islamaphobes are usually the most vocal so you end up arguing with 3-4 people and it can get disheartening and demoralising... but F 'em man.... I know there are plenty of decent members on here and although they don't always speak up, It doesn't mean they agree with the morons.

These dick-heads are by far the minority and as soon as you use anything like logic and reason with them, they start flapping worse than a tap-dancers fanny...

Just deny Ignorance where you see it and they'll soon get bored of it.

BNP scum.... didn't win one seat in these elections... even though if ATS and online in general was anything to go by, then they were gonna get plenty of votes and win seats... Didn't happen man....
because they are the vocal Minority

Let's make ourselves, the vocal Majority

Just defend what you know to be true mate, you can't go wrong that way

Peace




[edit on 7/5/10 by blupblup]

Originally posted by mryanbrown

So you ignored all the (white christian) KKK leaders demanding to kill all the blacks, jews, homosexuals, etc, etc.

Why aren't we then boycotting all Christians?

After all these KKK members ARE Christians. And by your logic. One ruins it for the whole lot.

The KKK is boycotted all over America pretty much.

They can't show their faces *literally*.

You do realize the KKK has the worst reputation of just about anyone right?

I Think your example makes no sense.

You are acting like the KKK is totally socially accepted. Nope they are the scum of society hiding behind their masks because everyone hates em.

And how is BURNING a CROSS = Christian? Seems pretty Anti-Christian to me...

[edit on 7-5-2010 by muzzleflash]

reply to post by Good Intentions


I'm sure that they had a few Muslim victims, but they were not the intended target(collateral damage). All the mosques in NYC and all the other available places to build one they picked that. I'm sorry that is just bad judgement and taste. Also isnt it a Muslim belief that once a Muslim is "martyred"(I use that loosely). That ground becomes sacred to Muslims? By building that mosque they sully and blantantly slap the survivors of that attack in the face.

I would want to know who is funding this building, the talaban, hamas? This just sickens me and I see this as an affront and offence.

Originally posted by intrepid
If I was a Muslim I'd be like, "You're building a mosque where? Are you out of your mind?"

That is exactly what I've been trying to say the whole time, TY Intrepid.

It's crazy lol.

TY for saying it much better than I could.

reply to post by HooHaa


Oh, I must be delusional in thinkin that there is a church right around the corner.

They do not care wether or not you are muslim, christian, jewish, they intend to punish America for supporting policies of Isreal. If you watched some of Osama's videos, you would understand that they are not killing people because they hate freedoms or religion or whatever, they want to show us how they are being treated, since nobody seems to care about what happens in the world unless it affects us.

I do not at all think that it is justafiable to murder people no matter what they have done. Unfortunately, that is the route they have taken to wake us citizens up. Those are their intentions, for us to realize what our country does to others, and that we will not live in peace, unless we let them live in peace. It is up to us as citizens to stand up to the politicians in our country, and most do not car for the policies in this country unless it affects them personally.

That does not make it okay to murder innocent people, I am just trying to point out that this is not a Muslim vs everyone else terrorism act. It is a punishment on America for supporting Isreals inhumane policies. What they do to us, is a reflection of what Isreal has done to them. Those are there intentions, to show us what they feel, so that maybe us average citizens, can pay attention to our leaders intentions.

Originally posted by SkurkNilsen

Idiot, it's not at all comparable.
They are not talking about making a memorial for the people who killed all the people in WTC, whoever that was, they are talkin about a mosque.

Do you see the difference?

Jeez louise!

We are actually on the same page here, despite your ignorance of that fact lol.

Yes I do see the difference, my point was that a large % of the population will not see any difference at all. Thus my comparisons which show that, and then the fact that those comparisons are exaggerated and illogical due to the fact that not all of X were Y.

Eg: Not all Nazi's hated Jews. But everyone thinks they did. Thus the banning of their Memorials in most places.

I don't see why you are calling me an idiot though.

And to the other poster about the Himmler example, I admit that one was a bit miscalculated, and I say Touche'. So I would have to revert to the all encompassing "Nazi" example since it fits so much better.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Mosque does not equal terrorism. If you built a terrorism appreciation bulding there, THAT would be ridiculous. But a mosque, is the same as a church. If there can't be mosques, there can't be churches, and as far as I'm concerned, there are churches.