Arizona has done the nation a favor.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

The Republicans want the cheap illegal labor. The Democrats want the votes. Both parties are beholden to Corporate interests who have an economic interest in weakening the Constitution (for economic reasons) and our borders, (for North American Union issues) and who would like American labor to be in an even weaker position than it already is.

Yet few people give a damm about the WTO, World Bank, IMF, UN, and last but not least Multi-National corporations infringing on BOTH americans and foreign nationals.

Americans get screwed TWICE! First they lose a lot of good jobs that go overseas and then mexicans swarm in to get the rest. Do you see the irony here?

Foreigners get screwed because the multi-nationals buy "their" government just like they buy the american government. That means low wages, poor working condtions, lax enviromental laws, etc.

Its a LOSE-LOSE situation when dealing with federal beuracracy and multi-nationals. I say lets ged rid of both or find ways to overcome their influence. Definitely ain't easy!

My arguement with conservatives is they keep looking at the trees and missing the forest. Its always about ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, WELFARE AND TAXES!!!

Gets OLD after a while, much like wearing the same cologne over and over...

Originally posted by Metal Head
I hear a lot of people complaining about what the whites did to the Native Americans, and nobody is saying it's right. But do you REALLY want these illegal immigrants and Mexico declaring war on the United States like these groups such as La Raza? Illegals crossing the borders and murdering families on ranches througout the southern states?

Unfortunately, it is people like you who claims that illegal immigrants are a bunch of murderers and drug dealers to spew the hatred against them.

Are all of them animals? Majority of them are only attempting to escape from poverty and repression in their own country. It is not as easy in the US to challenge the authorities.

Voice out and you get your head chop off silently in the night. informers are everywhere who will not hesitate to report you if you so much as look sideways for a few pieces of silver.

They only want what you want - a chance in life. They are mostly uneducated and know not the ways of democracy, being kept stupid by their repressive govts most of the time, and are uncouth.

Today, it may be difficult to talke about sharing wealth, when we ourselves are having problems and living in tents for some. But hatred is the last thing you would want share with your neighbours. So we eat lesser and splurge lesser so that there is enough to share around for those who are already here and tighten up our borders.

Hard times do not last. Sane good men are right now attempting to resolve the complex economic issues. When good times come, these illegal immigrants turned citizens will have kids and it is them who will contribute to make our society great, the way or immigrants forefathers had done.

Originally posted by Janky Red


I am talking about group dynamics and you really don't seem to understand

It doesn't matter, it is a specialized consideration anyways -

You know, there are lots of things I dont understand. Its a shame you didnt want to take a stab at explaining it, rather than just pointing out my ignorance.

I am always willing to learn new things. And I might not even be as stupid as you are assuming. I am just not so good at subtlety. I personally like things spelled out overtly.

reply to post by Angus123


Well I certainly understand why you would have thought it worse than it was, the news reports have it hyped up in such a way that it sounds as if they are also snatching and eating small Mexican children in addition to profiling everyone who doesnt need sunscreen 50.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by Angus123

 

Well I certainly understand why you would have thought it worse than it was, the news reports have it hyped up in such a way that it sounds as if they are also snatching and eating small Mexican children in addition to profiling everyone who doesnt need sunscreen 50.

LOL!! Thanks for the info. I appreciate facts, and when mine are wrong I'm willing to admit it.
BTW... they taste AWESOME with A-1.

reply to post by daskakik


Nice post. Its very interesting to hear that side of it. Its a pity that all that energy and time used to pursue fantasies about the US werent spent making Mexico the country it could be with a little reform.

(Not that our politicians arent trying really really hard to be just as corrupt.)

Originally posted by daskakik
Now having grown up in Chicago I recall seeing all of this. Perhaps in lesser degrees but still there. The only thing I would omit is the urban planning but if you think about it it is cosmetic more than anything.

You are right, it wont be long until Chicagoans are protesting for the right to become legal American citizens too.

All joking aside, we actually have quite a few parts of America (populated in large with legal American citizens) that are rarely shown on television that look suspiciously like the third world.

This is another reason that your average everyday American wants something done about the border. There may be a fantasy going around Mexico and South America that money falls from the sky like rain in America, but you know it doesnt. We are in big trouble here. We are not taking good care of our own people right now, we really dont need 11-12 million strays coming in throwing tantrums and complaining about their room service when our own legal citizens are living in third world conditions in the richest nation in the world.

We really dont need people who dont care about our laws, and who could care less about the issues that matter to legal Americans influencing our politicians when we need them to begin listening to us. We need to try and reign our politicians in, and get them to stop humping the legs of anyone with a couple million to spend on their campaign.

Its not racism. Its just good common sense that makes Americans want to stop the inflow of more problems, more needy people, when we are drowning in our own.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


explanation from my personal opinion file

the state has a mandate or responcability higher than following the laws of the federal govenment
this is to ensure the well being of all in that state ( lawfull men and woman)

now to turn the tables around so the federal govenment is shown to be forcing un constitutional laws on a state that effect it in dramatic ways

the state regulators have said PEOPLE OVER STATE OVER FEDERAL
GOVENMENT

to achive this they mirrored an existing federal law with one small exception only lawfull men and woman are free from harassment (not illigal imagrants)

but how do you tell them apart?

ANSWER the men and woman on the other side of the boarder arnt
covered by US law when they sneek accross they are

stop them crossing

this law says people over state over federal law (cool aye)

interesting times huh?

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


No it's people like me who stand up and want to protect my country from people who break the law, ANY people no matter their color. This is a nation of laws, if they want a chance in life they can follow the laws like the rest of us do and come here legally. This is not the same nation it was back when whites took the land from the Native Americans. Are all of the illegals murderers, bandits, and theives? No. But there is a good number of them that are fleeing Mexico because they are in trouble with the law. Show some patriotism, and stop fighting for people who come here illegally and get hospital care for free when we work our asses off to get healthcare. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem. No one has any sympathy for me when I get sick, have to leave my job, and can't afford my medical bills. Illegals are getting their medical care for free, and myself and the rest of America is SICK OF IT.



[edit on 2-5-2010 by Metal Head]

[edit on 2-5-2010 by Metal Head]

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by Janky Red


I am talking about group dynamics and you really don't seem to understand

It doesn't matter, it is a specialized consideration anyways -

You know, there are lots of things I dont understand. Its a shame you didnt want to take a stab at explaining it, rather than just pointing out my ignorance.

I am always willing to learn new things. And I might not even be as stupid as you are assuming. I am just not so good at subtlety. I personally like things spelled out overtly.

For whatever reason I like the way that sounded!

OK

We are talking perception here, pretend you are a politician who ONLY CARES ABOUT VOTES, nothing more (shouldn't be hard )

Some people who might not care enough to vote this November, might start caring enough to vote if it appears to them, even if it is not the case, that this is infact a racially motivated piece of legislation.

If that appearance is widely believed, for whatever reason and it becomes widely discussed around the nation you may find that;

A: the liberals who did not want to vote because they of GOP resurgence and related depression , might actually do so now

B: that many people who are against illegal immigration, will vote against this "perceived racism" and in favor of whichever side is defending the people experiencing the racism, even though they do not like illegal immigration.

****You know some people cheer for the underdog, just because he is the underdog?

C. Many Hispanics, right or wrong, will feel this is racist no matter what, this will get them to the polls. The more angry the rhetoric on the pro side, the more
hispanics will feel motivated to vote and tell others to vote.

The more of A, B and C you "anger" the worse it will be for the GOP sweep everyone is hoping for in NOVEMBER.

Therefore, strategically it would be best to keep the rhetoric on the pro side
in check as to not stir all of these people up, who might otherwise stay home.

If the goal is to win and get a conservative agenda in the mix, the best course of action would be to play it COOL and make sure you do not let one person or fringe voice, say something that might really screw things up come November.

Like: A man yelling, while being filmed at a rally;

"Throw the $#@$@$ $#@$# Mexican's $#@$@$ out, they are all $#@$@#..."

Even if this person does not represent the group as a whole, such a thing, one isolated incident could increase voter turn out by the millions.

I am not talking about how I feel about the issue, which is what you seemed to think earlier.


I am talking about the "body politic" which is how politics function in a large way.

Often this operation has more to do with feelings, than it does issues, facts or measurable statistics.

reply to post by Angus123




If this is true:

Nobody is saying let them hide behind their race.
The POINT is YOU know that YOU won't be targeted because of YOURS.

RACE is the ACE card you have up YOUR sleeve and you damn well know it.

Then this cannot be true:

You can be detained in Arizona for no damn reason other than the cop feels like it until you prove citizenship.

THAT is a government power grab.

I am all for shipping the illegals back where they came from.
i am NOT all for giving up my liberties to accomplish it. Chicken sh1ts do that sort of thing.

You contradict yourself within a few short statements.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
HEIL ARIZONA!!!

EIN VOLK, EIN ARIZONA, EIN FUHRER!!!

LONG LIVE VOLKSARIZONA !!!

LEBENSRAUM, MEIN KAMPF, HERRENVOLK ARIZONA!!!

So when are the leather jackets, skulls, bones and lightning insignias be trotted out and issued to the Arizona police?

(a sad day when Nazism whom good men had sacrificed their lives to defeat becomes a present day solution)

I missed the part where Arizona was rounding up legal citizens and putting them in ovens to exterminate them.

I missed the part where Arizona was rounding up legal citizens and putting them in slave labor factories and feeding them sawdust to keep them alive.

I missed the part where Arizona was confiscating the property of legal citizens and forcing them out of their businesses and making them wear stars on their clothes.

You obviously do not know your history.

Originally posted by mishigas
reply to post by Angus123

 

If this is true:

Nobody is saying let them hide behind their race.
The POINT is YOU know that YOU won't be targeted because of YOURS.

RACE is the ACE card you have up YOUR sleeve and you damn well know it.

Then this cannot be true:

You can be detained in Arizona for no damn reason other than the cop feels like it until you prove citizenship.

THAT is a government power grab.

I am all for shipping the illegals back where they came from.
i am NOT all for giving up my liberties to accomplish it. Chicken sh1ts do that sort of thing.

You contradict yourself within a few short statements.

No I didn't. Under the law, which I have recently come to understand better thanks to another poster, anyone can be detained if they are suspected of being an illegal regardless of race. He proved to me that they cannot simply be snatched off the street. But if they are stopped for something else and suspected of being illegal they can be detained regardless of race.

So saying they CAN be and they WILL be are 2 different things.
It's a simple concept to grasp.
SO go on... tell me that white people will be detained.

What I said is not a contradiction. Merely the reality.
And why don't you read up a few posts before you jump in.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by Angus123]

this is bull#. this is going to make it even harder for me to get my wife here from mexico now. we got married last year and i have been going down there often to visit her as she did not want to com here to the usa but now that she finally does this bull# bill comes along. its #ing stupid the mexican people are doing the same thing the english people did when they came here accept they aint going around and killing all of you off like you all did to my people. my people were kicked off their land and theyre women were raped and villages were pillaged. and a few mexicans come here and the white people freak out. you are all hipocrits they are doing nothing different then your ancestors did so quit your bitching!!!!.

Originally posted by Angus123


No I didn't. Under the law, which I have recently come to understand better thanks to another poster, anyone can be detained if they are suspected of being an illegal regardless of race. He proved to me that they cannot simply be snatched off the street. But if they are stopped for something else and suspected of being illegal they can be detained regardless of race.

So saying they CAN be and they WILL be are 2 different things.
It's a simple concept to grasp.
SO go on... tell me that white people will be detained.

What I said is not a contradiction. Merely the reality.
And why don't you read up a few posts before you jump in.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by Angus123]

It is not the old white people who come from Canada who are crossing the MEXICAN border illegally.

It is not the old white people who come from Canada who are stealing our cars and taking them to MEXICO.

It is not the old white people who come here from Canada who help the MEXICAN MAFIA import drugs into Arizona.

It is not the old white people who come here from Canada who are stealing peoples identities.

It is not the old white people from Canada who are having shootouts on the freeways between rival gangs.

It is not the old white people from Canada who kidnap people and hold them in drop houses until their relatives come up with the ransom.

It was not the old white people from Canada who recently shot up an Arizona law enforcement officer who discovered their pot in the desert.

It is not the old white people from Canada who are invading our homes looking for guns and drugs.

It is not the old white people from Canada who commit crimes and return to MEXICO to avoid prosecution.

Originally posted by Angus123
But if they are stopped for something else and suspected of being illegal they can be detained regardless of race.
[edit on 2-5-2010 by Angus123]

In the US, anyone can be held for up to twenty-four hours without being charged. (link). After that period, either a charge has to be filed or the person has to be released.

Nobody can be held on suspicion of anything longer than the twenty-four hour grace period. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty (link) and if they can't prove the person is illegal and file a formal charge, they will have to be released.

Hope this helps.


TheAssoc.

Originally posted by groingrinder

Originally posted by Angus123


No I didn't. Under the law, which I have recently come to understand better thanks to another poster, anyone can be detained if they are suspected of being an illegal regardless of race. He proved to me that they cannot simply be snatched off the street. But if they are stopped for something else and suspected of being illegal they can be detained regardless of race.

So saying they CAN be and they WILL be are 2 different things.
It's a simple concept to grasp.
SO go on... tell me that white people will be detained.

What I said is not a contradiction. Merely the reality.
And why don't you read up a few posts before you jump in.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by Angus123]

It is not the old white people who come from Canada who are crossing the MEXICAN border illegally.

It is not the old white people who come from Canada who are stealing our cars and taking them to MEXICO.

It is not the old white people who come here from Canada who help the MEXICAN MAFIA import drugs into Arizona.

It is not the old white people who come here from Canada who are stealing peoples identities.

It is not the old white people from Canada who are having shootouts on the freeways between rival gangs.

It is not the old white people from Canada who kidnap people and hold them in drop houses until their relatives come up with the ransom.

It was not the old white people from Canada who recently shot up an Arizona law enforcement officer who discovered their pot in the desert.

It is not the old white people from Canada who are invading our homes looking for guns and drugs.

It is not the old white people from Canada who commit crimes and return to MEXICO to avoid prosecution.

My point was there is no contradiction in my post. And it clearly soared right over your head which is why you posted a long winded screed on race.
I am aware of all that. The issue... you know what? Forget it. Go back under your bridge and wait for billy goats.

Some of you may know that my wife ad I just finished a vacation out west. We spent 3 days in Arizona. The south bound traffic seemed to be quite heavy, I wonder why

At any rate we took over 1500 pictures of one of the most beautiful states in our country, so I put together a tribute to Arizona.

Arizona, God Bless you.



Edited for spellig usig a rotte Microsoft key board grrrrrrrrrr

[edit on 2-5-2010 by All Seeing Eye]

reply to post by Angus123


My post was not about race. It was about reality.

reply to post by Phedreus


found an interesting page please reveiw information

Why Arizona Drew The Line
By Kris W. Kobach
Kansas City, KS
NY Times Op-Ed Contributor
5-2-10


not sure bout the site but the info sounds crediable

Kris W. Kobach, a law professor at the University of Missouri at Kansas City, was Attorney General John Ashcroft's chief adviser on immigration law and border security from 2001 to 2003.


XPLodER
www.rense.com...


edit more info added

[edit on 2-5-2010 by XPLodER]

reply to post by Phedreus


We all know how well the White House is protected so that if one airplane strays into the nofly zone that immediate action is taken, and that if anyone should even attempt to climb a fence to approach it, that action is taken to prevent any trespassers from getting near it.

Then why does Barack Obama react so stupidly to the idea of the nation protecting itself on its borders from such like invasions? It seems to me that the nation needs the same kind of protection that the President and the White House get.

I think that Obama is hypocritical as are all politicians about matters such as this. They are patronizing, negligent, and disrespectful towards the citizens of the United States in their attempt to permit illegal and unlawful behaviour to literally confuse the issues here.

I dislike Barack Obama's attitude towards Governor Brewer's decision and consider him a problem not a solution. We need responsible attitudes from our leaders not disrespect shown to our citizens...

Boo, Barack Obama!