Arizona has done the nation a favor.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


I got busy this weekend (birthday and such). I had a long reply I started working on but my computer turned itself off. so really I just have this to say,

you have way too extreme of a view to even argue about this (I can't even give my opinion about it). I said people who hire illegals are criminals, you instantly think everyone is innocent and that I would find it a good idea to imprison innocent people you're also way too condescending in the sense that your life experience (i.e. your ICE story that you said I was ignoring even though you just posted it) is more valuable than my own (firsthand experience with the problem). Neither is more valuable, you just act like so.

oh and anyone who submits an article in an argument then immediately backtracks as to say that they don't think it's the truth, is retarded.

closing this chapter. peace

reply to post by Xtrozero


I hope there is less racial profiling and that this law could be reworked into something better.

I guess I also kind of wish mexico would give the US permission and work with them to destroy the cartels

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


As to the question "is it a crime to hire illegal immigrants" the answer is yes.

Title 8: Aliens and Nationality
PART 274a—CONTROL OF EMPLOYMENT OF ALIENS
Subpart A—Employer Requirements
§ 274a.10
Penalties.

(a) Criminal penalties. Any person or entity which engages in a pattern or practice of violations of subsection (a)(1)(A) or (a)(2) of the Act shall be fined not more than $3,000 for each unauthorized alien, imprisoned for not more than six months for the entire pattern or practice, or both, notwithstanding the provisions of any other Federal law relating to fine levels.

(b) Civil penalties. A person or entity may face civil penalties for a violation of section 274A of the Act. Civil penalties may be imposed by the Service or an administrative law judge for violations under section 274A of the Act. In determining the level of the penalties that will be imposed, a finding of more than one violation in the course of a single proceeding or determination will be counted as a single offense. However, a single offense will include penalties for each unauthorized alien who is determined to have been knowingly hired or recruited or referred for a fee.

(1) A respondent found by the Service or an administrative law judge to have knowingly hired, or to have knowingly recruited or referred for a fee, an unauthorized alien for employment in the United States or to have knowingly continued to employ an unauthorized alien in the United States, shall be subject to the following order:

(i) To cease and desist from such behavior;

(ii) To pay a civil fine according to the following schedule: ...

Titl e 8: Aliens and Nationality

Both being illegal and hiring illegals are administrative offences meaning that they are not contemplated under penal law. So not on the same level as a crime as defined under federal or a states particular criminal code.

[edit on 3-5-2010 by daskakik]

Originally posted by piddles
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

I hope there is less racial profiling and that this law could be reworked into something better.

I guess I also kind of wish mexico would give the US permission and work with them to destroy the cartels

I agree 100%, I really wish AZ didn't feel the need to even push this law at all. I also think that we need to legalize a few drugs to hit the cartel right where it hurts. The problem that we learned in Iraq and Afghanistan is when a person has noting it takes very little for them to endure great hardship even death for a few bucks, so attacking them will only see mostly the poor die and not cut off the serpent’s head.

A wall and UAVs on the borders would greatly reduce the flow along with a worker visa program to get the true workers in our country to do the jobs they need to do. This would be a great start and the cost of the visas would pay for the program.


[edit on 3-5-2010 by Xtrozero]

this is bull#. this is going to make it even harder for me to get my wife here from mexico now. we got married last year and i have been going down there often to visit her as she did not want to com here to the usa but now that she finally does this bull# bill comes along. its #ing stupid the mexican people are doing the same thing the english people did when they came here accept they aint going around and killing all of you off like you all did to my people. my people were kicked off their land and theyre women were raped and villages were pillaged. and a few mexicans come here and the white people freak out. you are all hipocrits they are doing nothing different then your ancestors did so quit your bitching!!!!.

reply to post by Kurotachi


Uh, are you a legal citizen? If so your wife shouldn't have an issue coming to the states. Just a handy bit of advice there.

Originally posted by drwizardphd

You see, the Arizona legislation violates the Constitution.

It infringes upon the rights of Arizona's citizens. (Note: not the rights of the illegals, that's another discussion altogether.)

Basically it requires Arizona's citizens to carry identification that proves citizenship, or face potential arrest. Simply put, it is your right as an American citizen to simply be in public without ID. Under the context of the Arizona law, that right has effectively been nullified.

And how exactly is that unconstitutional, again??? The Constitution establishes no "right to privacy" nor does it shield citizens from having to carry ID papers.

You would have a better time arguing that carrying proof of insurance and a driver's license are unconstitutional. But in the end you would still be just as wrong.

Originally posted by drwizardphd

You see, the Arizona legislation violates the Constitution.

It infringes upon the rights of Arizona's citizens. (Note: not the rights of the illegals, that's another discussion altogether.)

Basically it requires Arizona's citizens to carry identification that proves citizenship, or face potential arrest. Simply put, it is your right as an American citizen to simply be in public without ID. Under the context of the Arizona law, that right has effectively been nullified.

If a police officer stops you for reason, and you have no ID on your person, you will be detained until they can verify your ID. They would be foolish to just let you walk; they may be allowing a felon to walk away free if they do that.

So it is in your own best interest to carry ID. I have no sympathy for you if you are detained for not carrying ID, nor would I want to hear any whining if you are detained. Serves you right.

reply to post by Phedreus


I agree, undermining our core values in order to accomplish the greater goal is a great idea!

With this kind of advanced thinking, maybe we could pass more legislation like the Patriot Act. Wouldn't that be great!

You do not deserve liberty of freedom.



[edit on 6-5-2010 by brianmg5]

A favor you say,i guess we'll see about that..

The problem with this law is that it gives law enforcement more power. Slowly, we are giving more and more power to our law enforcement agencies. One day we will be in a police state and wonder how we got there. The real problem here is the farmers in AZ that give illegals jobs. If we destroy the underground economy, there will be no reason for them to come over. We also need to let the border patrol do it's job. They know of illegals woking in AZ, but do nothing about it because they know the farmers need their labor. We need to get the BP to do their job, and give them more power to stop this at the border.

[edit on 6-5-2010 by smashing31]

reply to post by antonia


yes im a legal citizen im half Seminole Indian and half German, and its harder then it sounds we married in mexico i have to go there a few times a month to see her because she is still waiting on her citizenship for here the government is slow and dickish about that.