US Soldiers: the jackboots

Originally posted by slank

You don't berate people with terms like 'Sand Niggers' & 'Haji' this & 'Haji' that. You don't keep a cache of old weapons you can use as 'drops' whenever you kill innocent civilians & can claim they were 'insurgents' or 'terrorists.

You are complicit in looting the US treasury for trillions.
[edit on 17-5-2010 by slank]

I must have been in living in a paper sack for I never seen what you suggest though I'm sure isolated case must exist with the sheer number of military over there, but I got 1 ½ years of my life in the desert there and my experience is nothing like you suggest.

So I’m going to go with what I have lived through and not your bias generalized opinions.

As for the US treasury...you need to focus on congress and the White House since I made no more money in the desert than I did here at home. I was under contract (you know one of those things people who are Honest and Responsible abides by) Hell I didn’t vote for Bush or Obama, but I’m still obligated for what I signed my name to.

Honestly call it what you like I really don’t care and I sleep well at night….



[edit on 17-5-2010 by Xtrozero]

reply to post by Noncompatible

Policy makers make policy. Soldiers follow legal, legitimate orders. It isn't ideal, it isn't perfect, but it sure better than the alternatives. You seem to forget that freedom is not a right it is a privilege. "Jackboots" like me (formerly) and the others that post may perform duties for our nations that you despise. There is certainly an ugly side to it. But without us doing it you'd be huddled in an attic somewhere in fear of being dragged into the night.

The orders Hitler gave were legitimate too. Don't make them right?

The only people i have reason to huddle away from in a attic somewhere is soldiers. Someone doing what somebody else told him to. Someone with a gun, who believes he has right of way.

Sadly the soul doesn't give time outs. You don't get extra credit because you were only taking orders. The actions have consequences, and even when you are a proxy for others, you nevertheless contribute to the generally bad state of affairs we as humanity find ourselves in.

And i love how people accuse me of sitting doing nothing, would you rather i went and enforced my will on you and your family? Or must it be who you tell me to? Or just someone we both don't like?

I really don't want anything from you that you have taken by force. If you feel that you are doing it on my behalf, don't. I don't like the fact that you claim to act "for" us.

Ad also to respond to those jackboots who didn't appreciate my comments about looking down the barrel of my gun, that's my gun, on my land, you don't like it? Go home. When i bring my gun to your land then it's different. But there's no chance of that, see. I don't want anything from you. What do you want from me? Apart from stepping meekly aside for you and your gun slinging bravado to go wherever your freedom dictates?

Originally posted by harryhaller
And i love how people accuse me of sitting doing nothing, would you rather i went and enforced my will on you and your family? Or must it be who you tell me to? Or just someone we both don't like?

I really don't want anything from you that you have taken by force. If you feel that you are doing it on my behalf, don't. I don't like the fact that you claim to act "for" us.

Never said you couldn't have your gun on your land. What I am saying is you seem pretty quick to violence for a person who so wants to stop violence.

And yes no offense but you are doing nothing. I never said the revolution had to be violent. So what does this all boil down to? This is a rant and should be in BTS rant. You hate the wars. I get it. Frankly I am not crazy about the Iraq war myself. Never defended it. Never defended the ungodly amounts of money that could be spent on social programs instead. The point is you are sick and tired of it. Totally TOTALLY understandable.

So again…what are you doing about it? So far you have blamed the government. That’s a fine first step IMO. They are indeed the war-makers are they not?

Then you blamed me the soldier. Well clearly debatable BUT I cannot fault you for your logic…not sure comparing us to Nazi
s is the right approach but again…free speech and no matter how much I disagree with it I support you for saying so.

Ok so we’ve seen loads of blame and hatred and I am 100% ok with that. Now what?

How about nothing more than a summary of your plan. How will you make this problem go away? Until that point this is nothing but a rant. As I said…I support the rant…don’t like how you went about it but I support it.

IMO this should move to rant where it belongs.

And whether you like it or not, people in those uniforms in the dirt ARE doing this for you…at least that’s what they think. I am not asking you to like us. Heck I could care less. Man, if you wanna start websites and posters calling us baby killers then go right ahead. So long as nobody get’s hurt I say call me whatever you want.

I’m a specter, a ghoul and demon and have been since I chose the job I chose. I’m used to it.

The point in the end is…until your side get’s up and does something then this is little more than an emotionally-charged venting. (which I also support…)

-Kyo

Testimony from returning Iraq & Afghan veterans:

I mean, myself, I never really consider myself a racist person, but everything was

“haji this,” “haji that,” “haji smokes,” “haji burger, “haji house,” “haji clothes,” “haji rag.” “Haji” is the same as “honky.” It’s the same thing. I had to catch myself.

And then, with raids, we never went on a raid where we got the right house, much less the right person. Not once.
. . .
Something else we were actually encouraged to do, almost with a wink and a nudge, was to

carry drop weapons

or, by my third tour, drop shovels. What that basically is, is we would carry these weapons or shovels with us, because in case we accidentally did shoot a civilian, we could just toss the weapon on the body and make them look like they were an insurgent. Or, you know, like my friend here were saying, we were told by my third tour that if they were carrying a shovel or—you know, and a heavy bag, if they were digging anywhere, especially near roads, that we could shoot them. And so, we actually carried these tools and weapons in our vehicles in case we accidentally shot an innocent civilian, and we could just toss it on them and be like, “Well, he was digging. I was within the rules of engagement.” And this was commonly encouraged, but only behind closed doors. It wasn’t obviously a public announcement that they would make. But, yeah, it was pretty common.

www.democracynow.org...

You might want to get up to speed on the facts,

before you listen to candy coated coverups of atrocities.

The US congress has made illegal for you to see young men & women shrieking as they were filmed being raped at Abu Ghraib.
You haven't even seen the worst of that, because the criminals in DC won't let you.

Blackwater was hiring strippers, hookers & double billing you out of your tax dollars, for Billions.
Blackwater guards were using little girl prostitutes for oral sex in the green zone for a dollar a pop with the full knowledge of Erik Prince.
Blackwater employees were CONVICTED of smuggling illegal guns into Iraq.

The Pentagon intentionally dumped almost 9 BILLION dollars in CASH on pallets fresh flown in from the FEDERAL RESERVE, just to fund & fuel a never ending insurgency.

The Kabul embassy was using homosexual orgies to get people dirty so they would never reveal ALL the corruption going on in Afghanistan 'defense contracting' as well as drug smuggling.

The corporate conspiracy media is not going to give you the straight facts.
You will have to pay some attention & do a little digging to find out the real truth rather than

Sugar coated lies.

[edit on 17-5-2010 by slank]

Originally posted by slank
www.democracynow.org...

You might want to get up to speed on the facts,

before you listen to candy coated coverups of atrocities.

The US congress has made illegal for you to see young men & women shrieking as they were filmed being raped at Abu Ghraib.
You haven't even seen the worst of that, because the criminals in DC won't let you.

Blackwater was hiring strippers, hookers & double billing you out of your tax dollars, for Billions.
Blackwater guards were using little girl prostitutes for oral sex in the green zone for a dollar a pop with the full knowledge of Erik Prince.
Blackwater employees were CONVICTED of smuggling illegal guns into Iraq.

The Pentagon intentionally dumped almost 9 BILLION dollars in CASH on pallets fresh flown in from the FEDERAL RESERVE, just to fund & fuel a never ending insurgency.

The Kabul embassy was using homosexual orgies to get people dirty so they would never reveal ALL the corruption going on in Afghanistan 'defense contracting' as well as drug smuggling.

The corporate conspiracy media is not going to give you the straight facts.
You will have to pay some attention & do a little digging to find out the real truth rather than

Sugar coated lies.

[edit on 17-5-2010 by slank]

Must be ignoring me...which is fine...so let's say this is all true...clearly ou've done your work. What now? Just gonna rant about it on ATS or do something?

Like I said to OP I don't mind a rant especially if this stuff is true but is this where we are gonna drop it? I really wish I could see someone, anyone actually shoot for a change instead of just talking about it. I'm not blind, I know things are needing changd but all the loud folks about it haven't done anything.

-Kyo

reply to post by slank


Your rantings and ravings against the US military are pretty pathetic, you do know that?

You obviously don't have Clue One about what goes on. And your postings show it.

These are direct quotes from your fellow soldiers,

you psycho dipsnort.

Not candy coated crap sponsored by the corporate psycho mass murder machine,

The guys on the ground who have enough of a soul to realize what is going on there is being done in the worst of ways.

Add to that the fact that the mission was promoted about imaginary things

and all the obscene corruption & atrocities committed . . .

& the Pentagon is a treasonous institution

& you are right in the front line cheering treason on, which makes you an anti-American traitor.

Originally posted by KyoZero

You're still wrong. I not only hate the wars, i hate the warriors too. I hate the little people who put themselves into service of the powers. And if you're not getting the Nazi references, then you really are doomed.

Perhaps this is a rant, no more so than the soldiers who have replied, ranting about their rights to stormtroop anywhere in the world.

Next time i go kill someone, i'll do it for you, so that i can claim it was on your behalf, how's that sound? Sorry mate, you earned your karma all by yourself.

You see, slank touched on the central issue in an earler post and it is this:

Why are uniform wearers given free passage? Why is the soldier the "highest" honour that a man can attain to? Even in that stupid Avatar movie, the soldier is the good guy *spit*. It's time we refocused ourselves, and changed that. A soldier should become a thing of scorn, and pity. Poor genetic throwbacks to the violent ages of human history, all they are, and all they should be seen to be. Can we please stop the ideas that say our sons are good enough to die for someone else's profit? And then we call it the good, as though changing a name makes it a different thing.

Even Plato believed that soldiers should not be part of the general populace, because of their unsociable tendencies and natures.

Arete.



[edit on 18-5-2010 by harryhaller]

[edit on 18-5-2010 by harryhaller]

reply to post by harryhaller


Indeed, I am such a worthless piece of genetic code that I deserve to be shunned by fine upstanding examples of humanity such as yourself, simply because I was a soldier.
Such a shame that my wife and children don't find me to be such. My neighbors and friends do not feel that way, neither do my employees and customers.
Still I will leave you alone now. You can go back to festering in your hate filled little world.I just pray you eventually find balance and meaning as currently you seem to be eaten up with rage.

Maybe some structure, purpose and discipline to your life would help ?

I suggest the army, they are good for providing it.

reply to post by Noncompatible


I don't live in a hate filled world.

You did once. You took the hate, gave it form, function and purpose. And used it against whoever you were told to. Other men's wives and children.

Now you sit back with your family and tell me how right it all is. How right you are.

Tell me to join the army, because i need discipline? Yes. Right on. Take your discipline and shove it thanks. I have enough discipline, and self respect for myself and mine. Aren't you ashamed how well they brainwashed you?

Sounds like more of that "resistance is futile" crud. I will be assimilated or destroyed. You're home, with your family, and you are still defending the atrocious status quo?

No friends, you never get peace through war, ever.

reply to post by harryhaller


In an odd way I kinda like you. I think your views are distorted by your happenings around you...but I like you. You are bold and you stick to your guns. The part I am not so crazy about is that I have this feeling you think you can hurt me when in reality you do not know the truth of the lives of the soldiers. You do not know he truth of the wars. You are slank pick some 'quotes from soldiers' which may indeed be true but you still don't have an honest clue of what is happening there and what the reality is. You can try all you want but you just don't know.

Now you may completely understand that happenings of your home country. I would be daft to entertain the thought that you don't. You live there...you feel it...you know it

But that does NOT make the rest of the soldiers like the ones you encounter. I am not in My Lai, Abu Ghraib, Tiger Force...I did not do those things and for some reason no matter how many times I say this to the contrary you STILL think I am supporting their behavior. So let me try this one more time in hopes it will find a place to dig into your head.

The people who performed those atrocities are BAD BAD BAD.

I have never thought once that the soldiers at My Lai should have a free pass. Rather I think punishment should be swift and harsh once the claims were proven (which they were)

But you and some others think you are somehow better than us. You sit on the highest horse I have ever met (and I have known some TALL horses!)

Your word is infallible and perfect and you prove that by saying things like “Well you’re still wrong.” This whole post is highly charged with emotion. Now I am not saying some of these topics aren’t emotional by any means. The rape and torture of kids and mothers in Vietnam or men in Abu Ghraib is horrific. What the Nazi doctors like Mengele did was horrific. But if you ask me this whole thing is one massive sweeping generalization that you created in response to some bad eggs. Don’t forget…we are humans and we are just like you. All these soldiers you see right now are humans. All the ones who did horrid things in the past are humans. They are put in situations that you will NEVER understand until you are there.

Now I know what you might be think

“Well I AM here! I have the war in my backyard”

Darn right you do…but are you the warrior? No…so stop pretending you know their minds because you don’t. Thing is I don’t know their minds either. I just have a bit of insight since I am a non-combatant warrior and have talked to loads of combatants not to mention my shadow time with the psychologist I trained with before I start my masters this August. But even with THAT I still have no stinking clue what those men go through.

I preach the stress-diathesis model a lot. The summary is that each of us is completely capable (to varying degrees) of dysfunction and performing the same horrific things when we are put in nasty situations like them. Again…it doesn’t excuse them but look at what these people are doing day to day. They wade through blood and death (often times death that THEY created…even in self defense, killing another will change your life)

But no…you sit and pretend to know our minds and treat us as different when we are not that different from you…just different situations.

You just presume each one of us is a stormtrooper…well like I said. That is your opinion and I will never fault you for the opinion but again…if you don’t have a solution then what are we doing here other than slowly developing carpal tunnel? You keep thinking I am against you when in reality I prefer war to cease. I would like soldiers to be used for nothing other than self defense…but you two have your ideas about me…and it’s a shame that you can’t open to other possibilities.

After all…sitting right here behind this monitor is a soldier who HAS opened to other possibilities. Pity you can’t but like I said…my opinion will never be bad of you.

-Kyo

Originally posted by harryhaller
reply to post by Noncompatible

 

I don't live in a hate filled world.

You did once. You took the hate, gave it form, function and purpose. And used it against whoever you were told to. Other men's wives and children.

Now you sit back with your family and tell me how right it all is. How right you are.

Tell me to join the army, because i need discipline? Yes. Right on. Take your discipline and shove it thanks. I have enough discipline, and self respect for myself and mine. Aren't you ashamed how well they brainwashed you?

Sounds like more of that "resistance is futile" crud. I will be assimilated or destroyed. You're home, with your family, and you are still defending the atrocious status quo?

No friends, you never get peace through war, ever.

Now maybe just maybe you think you have me "pegged". You do not.
As said before am ex-British Military, my service in the 80's encompassed many things.
The one with relevance for you ? Northern Ireland.
I was not the one killing other peoples wives and children. I was not the one targeting non-combatants. I was not even permitted to defend myself until I had been fired upon. I was the one that had to spend days and nights asking myself "Why do I this ?"
I found my answer. I did so, hopefully, people could go about their daily lives free of the fear.
I heard the same ignorant protests of "Fascist, tool of the corrupt !" then.
Until the next bomb went off in a department store..then of course it changed to "Why aren't you protecting us!"

Your right to voice an opinion, sure you have it, I respect that. Doesn't mean your right or even that you know what you are talking about.
It most certainly does not give you the right to judge and insult me.

As to hate ? Yes I hate cowards who would kill non-combatants, those that condone and conduct terrorist actions deserve their reward.

Iraq, the second time. I do not condone, it was a (bad) political decision.
Afghanistan. I do condone. I have seen the victims of terror campaigns firsthand. That will never leave me.

No it is not "all right". The world is fubar. Doesn't stop some from wanting to do right by it, sometimes this means fighting fire with fire.

Oh and if you are so far gone you cannot recognize the attempt to defuse your rage with sarcasm, there is little hope you'll ever be able to view the world (or its people) with balance.

I have no hatred for you, just pity.

reply to post by slank


That is very interesting about the prostitutes. I was talking to a prostitute about soldiers and for some reason they do not buy (or rent) them like they used to. Maybe every base has it's own house of ill repute now. Maybe soldiers have higher morals regarding sex nowdays. Maybe they are all gay now. It really angers me when my taxdollars pay for it and I can't even afford one.

reply to post by earthdude


could have to do with the raging torrent of fatal STD's that cruise through the world of prostitution or the inherent danger of police stings and jealous 'lovers'

-Kyo

Originally posted by earthdude
reply to post by slank

 

That is very interesting about the prostitutes. I was talking to a prostitute about soldiers and for some reason they do not buy (or rent) them like they used to. Maybe every base has it's own house of ill repute now. Maybe soldiers have higher morals regarding sex nowdays. Maybe they are all gay now. It really angers me when my taxdollars pay for it and I can't even afford one.

Your tax dollars pays for what? Are you suggesting a soldier needs to be monitered on what they spend their pay on...oh BTW they pay taxes too.

The true answer and one you would never guess.... Xbox 360 and the internet....

[edit on 18-5-2010 by Xtrozero]

reply to post by Xtrozero


Slank said it, not me. I would not be suprised, as taxpayers pay for many things that they do not know about. STD's have not discouraged those who buy hookers and I doubt soldiers would be any different. Maybe they are telling soldiers some things in boot camp that they did not tell them before this war. Funny thing about soldiers, they will believe what they are told by thier superiors. I bet some of them are still looking for WMDs and Bin Laden while fearing the domino effect of communism.

reply to post by earthdude


Interesting hypothesis to post on a conspiracy forum rife with people willing, nay desperate, to believe anything from the NWO to planet X.

Pot meet kettle.

Originally posted by earthdude

Slank said it, not me. I would not be suprised, as taxpayers pay for many things that they do not know about. STD's have not discouraged those who buy hookers and I doubt soldiers would be any different. Maybe they are telling soldiers some things in boot camp that they did not tell them before this war. Funny thing about soldiers, they will believe what they are told by thier superiors. I bet some of them are still looking for WMDs and Bin Laden while fearing the domino effect of communism.

Young people today would rather play Xbox all weekend long than go chase booty as they did back in the day. Also there are a good percentage of females in the war zone and in the military in general that provides for a more relationship type lifestyle than one where females are extremely outnumbered giving the whores the advantage.

One thing that I have noticed is it seems that throughout the world major atrocities happen all the time, one can say every day of the week, but it seems horrendous events do not get much play time on ATS or care with those who seem to feel the need to spend a lot of energy on the US.

Anyone care about people being shot in Thailand?...... *crickets chirping…..


[edit on 18-5-2010 by Xtrozero]

reply to post by harryhaller


"jackboots"?

You lost your credibility right there.

Trolling for international stars and flags?







[edit on 18-5-2010 by FearNoEvil]

I love the pathetic rantings of the weak and lame that I read here. "Soldiers are all stupid, Soldiers are all brainwashed."

Give me a break. Get a real life and wake up. Parrotting that same BS anti-military line is really getting old.