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US Soldiers: the jackboots

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posted on May, 13 2010 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by slank
Putting on a uniform doesn't make a hero.

Saddam wore a uniform.

Noriega wore a uniform.

Idi Amin wore a uniform.

Wearing a US military uniform not only doesn't make you a hero,

AND if you are looting the US treasury for a Trillion dollars for imaginary things,

You are a god damned traitor. PERIOD.

And this crap, 'i was just following orders' was the refrain from Germans working for & as NAZIs.

You bought into the treason, you are a part of the treason.

& i don't care how many military apologists want to get all ookie pookie about it.

FACTS are facts, deal with them like adults or admit you are nothing but children.


One last time. Stop electing the Commander in Chief, you apparently hate with a passion, and start your revolution.
The servicemen and women swear an oath of allegiance just like any citizen.
The difference ?
They exhibit the drive to actually serve. They do not make policy.
Is every one of them an "angel". No of course not.
Is the system perfect ?
No of course not.
But traitors ?
I think not. They may not serve YOUR vision of how things should be, but they do serve.
The moral decay in this country has little to do with the rank and file of its armed services and more to do with the polarization of battle lines between extreme political views adopted by "Joe Public". Subsequently whipped up into a feeding frenzy by the profit motivated media outlets.

As for the Nazi comment. Stop watching Rachel Maddows/Glen Beck (whichever is your flavor). Stop spouting rhetoric and become part of the solution.
It's YOU the people that elect the government. Change the political landscape and amazingly enough, the military will continue to enforce the policies laid down by YOUR elected governing body.
The power is in your hands. Remember that it is an awesome responsibility.
Oh! and it isn't about being a "hero" my friend. It's called obeying legal orders from a legitimate command structure.

Signed: One ex-serviceman. Unrepentant & proud of his service.




posted on May, 14 2010 @ 08:53 AM
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reply to post by Noncompatible
 


You'd better learn your history. Particularly the bits about the Nuremberg trials. And the United States specific stance on certain issues. Like following oders NOT being a valid xcuse for GROSS HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS. You, like torture?

The more things change, the more they stay the same. PAPERCLIP.

I just LOVE how the US soldiers always have a "nice" story to tell, see we all do GOOD things all the time all over the world.

Oh yeah? So how come the world disagrees?

If you guys had dropped food Iraq would have been yours. Instead you drop destruction and blackwater on them. No wonder they're still fighting you.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by harryhaller
Get out. You ever come knocking this side boy you'll find the business end of a gun.


THERE IT IS!!!

I've been waiting for that for what like 4 pages? Suddenly you got violent and threatening. This whole OP is blasted and chock full of emotion. Yes you do have some facts. Yes some of our boys have done some depraved and evil things. I won’t deny Abu Ghraib, My Lai and the Tiger Force. Not once will you hear me excuse what they did. Now as for the ‘facts’ on the CIA involvement…got some proof that the CIA was involved? Please for the love of cake don’t give me some left-wing or right-wing website. Give me some credible undeniable proof.

In my opinion you are no less vile the soldiers you bust on but not for your opinions. If you want to harp that the military is bad...fire away. I've been hearing it for 8 years and trust me if you think the 'jackboots' are bad you would hate my guts for what I do in the Air Force. Well actually...what I USED to do. Now I am chef (3M071). I was a 2W271 for 6 years. Take a glance at that...I am sure you will come out swinging. Again, that is totally fine if you hate me for my past. I have heard people spew venom on me about my job and I just move on. The thing is unlike your posts I do not let emotion enter this argument. You sit and talk about hate and the evils of our soldiers and I ask what about the hate you are showing us? I have a pretty good idea that you have your skeletons too mate. The difference is I wouldn’t pick on them. Now again…I ma NOT excusing those atrocities at all so let me get to the point here

Look OP...you think we're all bad. Cool that is totally fine but there is a couple concepts here that I think you cannot or refuse to grasp.

1. We have done plenty of good in our time as well. We helped in Europe and our military escaped tyranny from the Kings of England way back when. We build schools, feed children, and help in horrific natural disasters. Now I don’t buy it that the government took down the WTC (gasp!!!) but let’s say for a moment that they did. Soldiers helped by the thousands to save people and recover. Again…did the government cause the wreck? For the moment I am agreeing to get this argument going. Yes they did cause 9/11. Did the soldiers? Don’t think so.

So all those ground-pounders out there helped because it was the right thing to do. They helped PEOPLE…not the government.

2. Soldiers are really no different from you. We get emotional. We get stupid. We make mistakes and sometimes we have our shining glorious moments. So I gotta pause for a small explanation that just drills on my last nerve…

One of the biggest moral problems I have in this country (outside of the economy, government and whatever else are the big hot topics) is that for some reason when a person puts on a uniform of any type they become deities. I don’t mean deities in a good way either. It takes two forms.

a. We are worshipped needlessly. The soldiers I have met would prefer a thank you for your service and for you to move on. We don’t need lavish ceremonies. We do our job and go home. (even if you don’t agree with that job)

b. On the flip side, anti-military folks see us as these beings that have to be absolutely perfect in every single step we make. They sit like rabid dogs on a leash waiting for the slightest drop of a pin. When that pin hits the ground they break that leash and attack with unbelievable ferocity EVEN if they don’t have all the facts.

Look folks…you super anti-military folks are just as much ‘sheeple’ as the super pro-military folks. Both side have got to get in touch with reality. The ‘antis’ will fire at any single thing that moves without hesitation even if they don’t have the facts. That’s ok because imagination is enough. Meanwhile the ‘pros’ see another country sneeze in a funny manner and want the place melted down to beaded glass the next day.

All of us have got to calm the heck down.

On to the next factor

3. No we are not saying a soldier knows better but the fact stands that alternative media or even MSM sound bites tell you about 1/1000th of the story. Unless you are there you do not know it all…period.

Now I realize the horrific paradox I just set myself in. That also means there could be atrocities happening right now as we speak but that brings me right back to factor 2; humanity.

I have yet to meet one single human that was unerring, infallible and completely stoic in even the toughest of pressures. We all lose our cool and we all do bad things. If you tell me you don’t then I have to label you as a liar honestly. The thing is if you OP lose your cool you might (example) flip a guy off and swear like a sailor then drive 80 MPH because you are angry. OF COURSE that is much much less intense a response than say My Lai where women were raped and tortured. I don’t deny that and I don’t compare the magnitudes of the two. Rape versus some road rage…not even in the same ballpark. The point I WILL make is that these are nothing more than poor reactions…the difference is the level of intensity and the outcome.

Now I want to preface the next paragraph in capitol letters one more time since I know sometimes people ignore cautions…

I AM NOT EXCUSING THOSE ACTIONS

With that said lemme get to factor 4

4. What you see on a day to day basis is nothing remotely the same as to what our soldiers see on their day to day lives. They see things that frankly I think many of us could not handle. I don’t like the fact that atrocities exist but I will say I am never surprised.

Believe it or not I am a pacifist. I don’t like conflict and I don’t like war. So why did I join especially considering my chosen career field (because I did choose it myself)? I felt the need to serve. I felt I had leeched off this country and those warriors long enough and like you I spit in their faces (not actually…just metaphorically). Then I thought about it. These soldiers and airmen and Marines and sailors keep us safe. Even with the big bad government at the helm these people keep it free so I can come online and debate, chat heck look at pornographic material! Whatever you want to do so long as it doesn’t harm others you can feel free. The constitution guarantees those freedoms and the military makes sure an evil person doesn’t come here and take them back from you.

THAT is why I joined. I wanted to be part of it too. Don’t get me wrong I am not for mandatory service. I like the fact that it is voluntary because that means you wanted to be there.

OP…we have some bad soldiers. Any soldier who tells you differently is a liar…try not to judge us all and remember we are humans too…just like you are

Keep the peace folks

oh...and OP...make a revolution...don't just sit here and complain to a forum else you are no better than us jackboots you spit at

-Kyo


[edit on 14-5-2010 by KyoZero]

[edit on 14-5-2010 by KyoZero]



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 12:16 PM
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George W. Bush wasn't legitimately elected in either of his installations.

Sadly Obama probably was.

Of course if the powers that be just assassinate any presidents they find too difficult i am not sure how much difference elections really make, even when they are technically legitimate.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 12:25 PM
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KyoZero:

All of us have got to calm the heck down.


When BANKERS are looting the US treasury & fed for TRILLIONS i am NOT CALM!

When the PENTAGON TRAITORS are looting the US treasury for TRILLIONS i am NOT calm,

and TAKE NOTE, they are CREATING TERRORISTS, KILLING MORE THAN A MILLION CIVILIANS and COMMITTING ATROCITIES in the process as well,

over IMAGINARY THINGS.

What is the Price tag of your excitement?

Trillions of dollars & hundreds of thousands of murders qualify in my book.

WTH is wrong with you?

Zero must have something to do with your brain function.

[edit on 14-5-2010 by slank]



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by slank
KyoZero:

All of us have got to calm the heck down.


When BANKERS are looting the US treasury & fed for TRILLIONS i am NOT CALM!

When the PENTAGON TRAITORS are looting the US treasury for TRILLIONS i am NOT calm,

and TAKE NOTE, they are CREATING TERRORISTS, KILLING MORE THAN A MILLION CIVILIANS and COMMITTING ATROCITIES in the process as well,

over IMAGINARY THINGS.

What is the Price tag of your excitement?

Trillions of dollars & hundreds of thousands of murders qualify in my book.

WTH is wrong with you?

Zero must have something to do with your brain function.

[edit on 14-5-2010 by slank]


Well I do appreciate the personal attack. Thank you I will absorb your obviously unemotional and unbiased response. I appreciate your concern but don't lose any sleep. My cognition and functions are well intact. I can at least admit that I am one hell of an imperfect being.

since you picked on one line I will pick one line of my 3 page response as well


Believe it or not I am a pacifist. I don’t like conflict and I don’t like war.


ok sorry it was two lines :-p

Also if you had understood context in that specific sentence you would have seen that the paragraph above was...

a. talking about the extremist views and...

b. attacked BOTH sides. By both I mean the pro-military and anti-military

Now I will take a moment and apologize for one misconception. In that lengthy post I should have said that I am not for the Iraqi or Afghani wars. I am also interested in the fact that we seem poised to pick one or possibly two more fights (see Korea/Iran)

Also (and no I am not asking you to look up my history) but I have openly protested the unbearable amounts of money spent by the Bushes and apparently now Obama (who I supported but am now upset with)

So for that portion I do apologize.

So with that slank…let me say again what I said to OP…

Make the revolution for peace. Quit talking about it because I don’t think you are accomplishing anything here right now except for arguing with me. And trust me I am no prized debater! Clearly! :-p

Or would you rather just sit and discuss how lovely your ideals are instead of actually making them happen?

Believe it or not I am a Socialist…a lazy one but a Socialist nonetheless…I believe in equality across the boards so long as you earn it. Have I started a revolution? Goddess no! I’m not that charismatic yet. I can leads small pockets of people say as a middle manager but I know me very well. I know I am not strong enough to lead the revolution…at least not yet. Heck maybe I will never be but at least I can admit that as of this moment I am not capable or not willing to change the system. Folks like you tout how strong your convictions are.

Where is the newspaper article or website showing your name registered for a march or a petition you started?

Show me that…then I will be honestly impressed because you’ll have done more than I. Does that make me a sheeple? Well that’s up to you. Label me what ya like. I won’t lose a wink of sleep. However it does at least make me honest and full of candor.

I am not willing or ready to start the revolution. –shrug-

What about you? Because if you think debating a few people on ATS is the revolution…wow…you have a LONG way to go friend. Thing is…not once did I say I wouldn’t join your revolution for peace…I just said I can’t start it because I am not strong enough. You’d be surprised…I would be there

Peace

-Kyo



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by slank
...... KILLING MORE THAN A MILLION CIVILIANS and COMMITTING ATROCITIES in the process as well,


Really? US Forces have killed over a million civilians??

Source, please? Gonna need to back that comment up.


Originally posted by slank
Trillions of dollars & hundreds of thousands of murders qualify in my book.


OK, is it millions or hundreds of thousands? Geez, make up your mind!



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 09:07 PM
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The figure from ORB, a British polling agency that has conducted several surveys in Iraq,
. . .
According to the ORB poll, a survey of 1,461 adults suggested that the total number slain during more than four years of war was

more than 1.2 million.
www.latimes.com... ue

That from Sept. 14 2007, 2 & 1/2 years ago.

And then their are the 1700 tons of depleted Uranium . . .

And whether it is hundreds of thousands or well over a million civilians killed as well as all the deformed & murdered babies, you laugh.

You are a psycho.

A drunken, jackboot psycho, any way you want to try to paint it.

[edit on 14-5-2010 by slank]



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 01:51 AM
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Originally posted by slank

The figure from ORB, a British polling agency that has conducted several surveys in Iraq,
. . .
According to the ORB poll, a survey of 1,461 adults suggested that the total number slain during more than four years of war was

more than 1.2 million.
www.latimes.com... ue

That from Sept. 14 2007, 2 & 1/2 years ago.

And then their are the 1700 tons of depleted Uranium . . .

And whether it is hundreds of thousands or well over a million civilians killed as well as all the deformed & murdered babies, you laugh.

You are a psycho.

A drunken, jackboot psycho, any way you want to try to paint it.

[edit on 14-5-2010 by slank]


When one starts throwing big numbers around like 100,000s or a million of dead there would be some serious piles of dead bodies, or massive graves, but I agree the death toll has been high, but not at the propaganda level you like to cite.

The vast majority killed in some way in Iraq have been mostly from either secular violence or insurgents. Freedom for the Iraqis provided the means for them to continue a 2000 year old grudge between the two major Muslin factions, and they killed each other on a rather large scale. Also there have been many outside groups that wanted to see Iraq stay in a chaotic state for their own agendas hoping we would just give up and leave, and they have been extremely bloody in their methods.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 01:59 AM
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These are deaths above & beyond baseline. ie. old age, sickness, accidents, etc.

These are all deaths that would not have happened except for our invasion to remove imaginary things.

And we will have spent a Trillion dollars in the process AND created a vast reservoir & harbor for terrorists where there wasn't one before.

How the Fack can people even sit here & argue for the Iraq war?

And this has been dragging on for 7 fracking years.

Are you people insane?

sitting there RATIONALIZING astronomical numbers of human deaths, Huge monetary costs & CREATING TERRORISTS.

You know, when it comes back to bite you on the backside, there will be no loss of brain power in the Universe, because clearly you have none.

Nor will there be any loss of ethics, fairness or decency because you have none of those either.

[edit on 15-5-2010 by slank]



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 03:51 AM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero
Freedom for the Iraqis provided the means for them to continue a 2000 year old grudge between the two major Muslin factions


Do you have material evidence for that?




posted on May, 15 2010 @ 04:23 AM
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Originally posted by harryhaller
So this hippies thinking is not alone.

The thing is, how do we get people to refuse to serve the military?

Because what i see, is that they are actively encouraged by the "brainwashed" community that it's honourable.

It's not, and we need to make it DIShonourable to serve.

I'm a compassionate person, but maybe it's time to drop vets, as the military themselves do. Sorry son, but it's your own fault you're a cripple.


Yeah, sorry but dishonor for those who serve is just plain wrong and stupid. Water takes the path of least resistance and so do many humans by joining the military. Dishonor is NOT the route to take. Do not punish individuals for the issues of the whole!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 07:35 PM
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Originally posted by A-E-I-Owned-You

Originally posted by harryhaller
So this hippies thinking is not alone.

The thing is, how do we get people to refuse to serve the military?

Because what i see, is that they are actively encouraged by the "brainwashed" community that it's honourable.

It's not, and we need to make it DIShonourable to serve.

I'm a compassionate person, but maybe it's time to drop vets, as the military themselves do. Sorry son, but it's your own fault you're a cripple.


Yeah, sorry but dishonor for those who serve is just plain wrong and stupid. Water takes the path of least resistance and so do many humans by joining the military. Dishonor is NOT the route to take. Do not punish individuals for the issues of the whole!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Zat ist vat ve haf been sayingk for 65 years, jawohl.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by slank

The figure from ORB, a British polling agency that has conducted several surveys in Iraq,
. . .
According to the ORB poll, a survey of 1,461 adults suggested that the total number slain during more than four years of war was

more than 1.2 million.
www.latimes.com... ue

That from Sept. 14 2007, 2 & 1/2 years ago.


Yep, got anything a bit more current than three years ago?

And they surveyed 1,461 adults and came up with 1.2 million dead? Wow, that's scientific.
Might be a wee bit of wiggle room in that figure, huh?

And the alleged 1.2 million dead: Who killed them? All of these people were killed by US Forces huh? Where in the hell do you hide that many bodies?



Originally posted by slank
And whether it is hundreds of thousands or well over a million civilians killed as well as all the deformed & murdered babies, you laugh.


I'm only laughing at you. Get your figures straight.


Originally posted by slank
You are a psycho.

A drunken, jackboot psycho, any way you want to try to paint it.


You know where you can shove your childish name-calling, don't you?



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by slank

The figure from ORB, a British polling agency that has conducted several surveys in Iraq,
. . .
According to the ORB poll, a survey of 1,461 adults suggested that the total number slain during more than four years of war was

more than 1.2 million.
www.latimes.com... ue

That from Sept. 14 2007, 2 & 1/2 years ago.

And then their are the 1700 tons of depleted Uranium . . .

And whether it is hundreds of thousands or well over a million civilians killed as well as all the deformed & murdered babies, you laugh.

You are a psycho.

A drunken, jackboot psycho, any way you want to try to paint it.

[edit on 14-5-2010 by slank]


A survey meaning that they asked 1461 people that suggested that the total number was that much..... that means about as much as doing a survey of how many cows are alive on this earth by people in an insane asylum.

And the DU that was left around Iraq is from us blowing up the Iraqi Army's tanks during the 90's Gulf War. Sadaam did not do anything to these tanks, he left them in villages, in the streets, basically where ever they were blown up at. That is not our fault that a tyrant like Sadaam wouldn't clean up after the first war with us. Get your facts straight..... We are over there right NOW building schools, roads, supplying aid, supplying food and water, removing these tanks from villages, cleaning up Iraq because there is trash everywhere, going to villages asking the village elders if they need anything for their village or if they have any problems.... They like us, we help them. I have seen it first hand you HAVE NOT!!! So STFU and quit acting like you know everything when the only information that you get is from the NEWS and the internet......

A drunken??? Jackboot psycho????? you don't even know WTF you are talking about kid.....



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by harryhaller
reply to post by Noncompatible
 


You'd better learn your history. Particularly the bits about the Nuremberg trials. And the United States specific stance on certain issues. Like following oders NOT being a valid xcuse for GROSS HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS. You, like torture?

The more things change, the more they stay the same. PAPERCLIP.

I just LOVE how the US soldiers always have a "nice" story to tell, see we all do GOOD things all the time all over the world.

Oh yeah? So how come the world disagrees?

If you guys had dropped food Iraq would have been yours. Instead you drop destruction and blackwater on them. No wonder they're still fighting you.


I enjoyed the rant. Now shall we discuss the fact that I am British ex-military ?
How about we don't ?

I'll say it simply now. Those that spew your particular brand of vitriol have a special place in my heart. You whine incessantly about injustice and do nothing. For all of your posturing you are nothing but a timid little rabbit without the courage of his convictions.

Policy makers make policy. Soldiers follow legal, legitimate orders.
It isn't ideal, it isn't perfect, but it sure better than the alternatives. You seem to forget that freedom is not a right it is a privilege.
"Jackboots" like me (formerly) and the others that post may perform duties for our nations that you despise. There is certainly an ugly side to it. But without us doing it you'd be huddled in an attic somewhere in fear of being dragged into the night.

I have no religion. I do not think every catholic priest rapes little children however. Neither do I believe that every serviceman and woman is simply a soulless, sadistic jackbooted killing machine.

Still unrepentant.
Finally "sonny", I'll give you this:
Honi soit qui mal y pense (Evil be to him who evil thinks )



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 09:16 PM
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Originally posted by aorAki

Originally posted by Xtrozero
Freedom for the Iraqis provided the means for them to continue a 2000 year old grudge between the two major Muslin factions


Do you have material evidence for that?



You must be kidding, right?

It has been talked about and cited numerous of times. I care little anymore on whether another person wants me to spend more time on something talked about over and over. If it was a new subject I might indulge myself but it is not…

The Sunnis and Shiite have fought over the lineage of Mohamed for a very long time now, but it is also political since they fight within their own obedience. It doesn’t help that most northern Iraq Shia align themselves with Iran and that helped Iran facilitate a large amount of mischief in trying to prevent Iraq from stabilizing.

But as I said…old news….



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 09:56 PM
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I was kidding.

You said Muslin.

I said material.

It was a pun.




I think you might have meant Muslim.



It is an important distinction.



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 01:12 AM
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US Soldiers work for the Pentagon & the US government &

NOT for the American people & America.

You are essentially government mercenaries.

& i am not going to rationalize away the crimes & crooked policies the Pentagon told you to carry out & commit.

Pride is easy. Any idiot like you can have it.
John Gotti was very proud of who he was.
You have many things in common with him, including hot & cold running murders.

Patriotism, real patriotism takes some intelligence.

You don't berate people with terms like 'Sand Niggers' & 'Haji' this & 'Haji' that. You don't keep a cache of old weapons you can use as 'drops' whenever you kill innocent civilians & can claim they were 'insurgents' or 'terrorists.

So clearly you can never be a patriot, because you are not equipped with the brain power to do so.

You are mercenaries. You are jackboots.
You are complicit in looting the US treasury for trillions.

Thugs for Hire

You commit murder of innocent people for money.
You are mafia hit men [& women].

You are not now, nor will you EVER be patriots of these United States.

You are dirt bags. And no matter how many mindless idiots label you 'heros' or 'patriots' real thinking Americans know the truth of the matter.
Maybe you can get one of those air-head bimbo 'news' anchors to kiss your stinking backsides?

You are just evil. Pieces of the complex puzzle of evil that America seems to run on anymore.

[edit on 17-5-2010 by slank]



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 01:23 AM
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Originally posted by aorAki
I was kidding.

You said Muslin.

I said material.

It was a pun.




I think you might have meant Muslim.



It is an important distinction.


oops didn't notice...hehe




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