Homosexuality is a choice and nothing else!

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Okay, I know i'm going to get flamed here
and people, let's keep it civil so mods don't delete the thread!

Too many people say that homosexuality is not a choice, some say "I know how I feel, I feel diferent", of course you feel different... you are different!

But to say that homosexuality is not a choice and there is some DNA change causing homosexuality doesn't mean you are calling them mutants?

I am serious, if they are not homosexual by choice then please explain to me how that is not mutation.
No I am not calling homosexual mutants, if YOU say they do not make that choice then YOU are saying they are!

There is so much data out there, some saying it is a choice some saying not, there is both so now what. Lets just rely on logic.

If it is not mutation but also isnt a choice then heterosexuals would also say it is not a choice. And saying it is a choice means it is a mental decision while saying it is not is a physical one.

Thoughts

Would you like to define the one and ONLY human that is the perfect specimen .. and all the rest are 'mutations' compared to him/her? Or maybe explain what other "genetic differences" are required in order to be called a mutant? 0.o .. aren't we ALL "mutants" compared to each others.. Blue eyed mutants, green eyed mutants.. black haired mutants, blond mutants..

It's a matter of being, doing and being able to BE or DO .. so I don't really get your point.

My thoughts most often come to the ultimate question 'what the *** does it matter whether it's genetical or not?' .. For me it's like my desire to play and enjoy piano music. I couldn't care less, if it's a CHOICE or in my genes.. I like it, and it's what I WANT .. if someone hates gays or piano music, please do. But it doesn't give anyone the right to prevent me expressing myself, as long as it's not hurting anyone involved.

So.. maybe you could be a little bit more specific.. what you meant by your 'mutant' comment?

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
homosexuality occurs naturally within the animal kingdom, do you think those animals choose to be gay?

They also eat their young. Does that mean because it happens in nature, we should allow it to occur in our society? No, because we know better.

Flame away.

Originally posted by Darth Logan

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
homosexuality occurs naturally within the animal kingdom, do you think those animals choose to be gay? Thats all I have to say on the matter for now

Animals also rape each other and copulate with dead animals. This line of reasoning is unsustainable. If seemingly "homosexual" acts among animals are in accordance with animal nature, then parental killing of offspring and intra-species devouring are also in accordance.
Irrational animal behavior is not a yardstick to determine what is morally acceptable behavior for rational humans.
The animal kingdom is a whole different ball game, sorry to say.

So what IS the 'yardstick' to determine what is "morally acceptable behavior for rational humans."?

You avoided the whole question anyways.. The original question was about whether it is genetic or not.. It's whole another thing if you approve it morally or not... right?

Originally posted by mefrosty
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

Wow...let us just take a looksie here and see what we have:

Some of you think sexual preference is a chioce.
Some of you think one is "born" one way or another. (mutation)

Well, here is another thought:
Scientifically, experimentation and study of biogenics has been going on for a very long time folks. DNA was being researched before the public new.

From what I have read, Hitler, thanks to the Rothchild, Ford, and JP Morgan funding, had been using human subjects to try to produce his "perfect" aryan race. ....take away a gene here,...add another one there.

Genetic alteration/mutation has also been around for quite some time.
We ingest high frutose corn surup, modified corn starch, for starters, which are genetic mutations of the original ( ya wonder why there is so much sickness).

Therefore, it is plausable to conceive that the human "male" or "female" could develope feminit or masculine behavioral properties through several generations of a past genetic alteration. But, wait. What about way PAST generations?

Another thought, would be to see this from a biblical standpoint: Go to the book of Genisis. CH 6:4..."The Nephilim were on the earth in those days--and also AFTERWARD--- when the sons of God went to the daughters of men, and had children by them..."

The nephlim were describes as "giants". (Now, why were all those humanoid "giant" skeletons you see on you-tube not in museums?) Half man and half divine. Genetically mutated beings, if you will. Many of faith believe these were the "fallen ones" who in defiance from God, mated with human women.

Now all angels are described as being sexless. AH HA? Could that mean that this is where the term "hermaphrodite" comes in?

It is said that the "and also AFTERWARD" in Genisis meant that after Noah and the flood, these "fallen angels" came about and genetically messed up the human race all over again, maintaining the "Dragon Bloodline".

I am not going to give you my beliefs as it is not revelant. I merely wanted to point out other ways to induldge all in this thread.

Thanks!

I was NOT trying to get biblical, scientiffic, nor personal here

Originally posted by FortAnthem
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

S&F for having the courage to say it.

The problem I always have with people who claim homosexuality is genetic is; how is the gay gene passed down if gays aren't interested in the type of sex that results in children?

It seems to me that if there was a gay gene, it would have gone the way of the dodo centuries ago. How does a gene get passed along which results in the infertility of the person who has the gene?

News flash - homosexual men and women can and do engage in straight sex - it may not be pleasurable, enjoyable or preferred but they can - google Edward II of England for example. Some of those encounters result in pregnancies. I would suggest that you google married homosexuals or, heck, look no further than good old Ted Haggard - gay and has children.

Secondly genes that cause homosexuality are most probably recessive. I would suspect that more than just one gene causes homosexuality. Being recessive they are going to show up in a small percentage of the population, as homosexuality does.

I've got kind of a side a question that's been rolling around in my head.

Recently, homosexuals have been given the status as a minority (same as women, african-americans, etc.). This qualifies them for minority contracts from most state/local governments.

When it comes to those contracts, how does one prove (to get the contract) or disprove (to revoke it) someone is a homosexual in a court of law (lawsuits pertaining to minority contracts)?

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by earthdude
Look at some porn and choose not to be excited by it. You can't choose your sexuality. If you can, then you are a very advanced form of life.

If you cannot choose then you are a very low form of life!

You may chose to dumb yourself down but please don't do the same for the rest of our specie.

Thx

I can't help getting this feeling, you've already made your mind about the original issue.. and that also you feel somewhat better than some/most of the ppl here..

And if by 'not choosing to get excited by porn' you mean trying to consciously not to look/hear/react on it.. that wouldn't made it really your 'natural' (aka genetic) reaction, would it? Then it definitely would be a "moral" or intellectual choice.. but it wouldn't prove anything at all about whether you get turned on by straight/gay porn nor is it genetic or not..

To get back into my playing piano statement. I can definitely CHOOSE not to play it.. EVER.. but it would proof NOTHING about whether I like to play it because I've learned to like it or because it's in my genes..

You really need to sit down and read some of this replies here.. with a DEEP and LONG thought.

Originally posted by indianajoe77
I've got kind of a side a question that's been rolling around in my head.

Recently, homosexuals have been given the status as a minority (same as women, african-americans, etc.). This qualifies them for minority contracts from most state/local governments.

When it comes to those contracts, how does one prove (to get the contract) or disprove (to revoke it) someone is a homosexual in a court of law (lawsuits pertaining to minority contracts)?

Tuff one, my friend..video camera in the bedroom?? Geeze..... got me there. They must, most likely, need to have reputable witnesses?

reply to post by mefrosty


That's what I mean. What would stop me from saying (or to the extent living as if I was homosexual, right down to the boyfriend) im gay just to take advantage of the minority contract? How would a truly homosexual person who lost the contract be able to prove that I am not in fact a homosexual? Even if videos of me banging 20 women came out, that would only prove I was bisexual (still a minority).

It is interesting and I really would like to know the thoughts of the homosexual community.

Several months ago I had a conversation with a gay male friend of mine. He was born looking absolutely male. Very well developed genitals, yet he has an ovary.

Is he gay by choice or DNA defect?

Myself, I was born with undescended testicles (they were cut down btw). Again, maybe I did not have a choice in my sexuality.

There is more here at play in the role of a persons sexual desires.

I think anyone who says sexuality is a choice, must harbor feelings for the same sex to KNOW it would be a "choice". Does that make sense?

No choice for my sexual orientation. Never ever ever thought about sex with a girl. YUK. LOL



[edit on 26-3-2010 by brilab45]

Originally posted by Armin
Text I don't understand why straight people, defend them by saying it's not a choice, you try to defend them by comparing them to animals which you guys claim are "gay". All your are doing is choosing to go against God's revelation and teaching's. For myself, God's opinion matters more to me than any person that would try to tell me and convince me that homosexuality is not a choice. So, I also don't care what your respondes are to my comment, the Qur'an and the old scriptures teach me to warn people that if they commit in homosexual behavior, then they will be dealt by God when their day comes. Have a nice day and remain blessed everybody.

Deuteronomy 22:13) ''If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Your ignorance on this matter is a shame.

A belief is not a fact! Until that belief gets proven you should always have an open mind, you may be wrong.

I take it you would also dissagree with the idea of innocent until proven guilty?

If I believed you had commited a murder, along with several other people and we absolutley thought it was you, are we right to put you to death, eye for an eye and all that?

Originally posted by brilab45
Several months ago I had a conversation with a gay male friend of mine. He was born looking absolutely male. Very well developed genitals, yet he has an ovary.

Is he gay by choice or DNA defect?

Myself, I was born with undescended testicles (they were cut down btw). Again, maybe I did not have a choice in my sexuality.

There is more here at play in the role of a persons sexual desires.

I think anyone who says sexuality is a choice, must harbor feelings for the same sex to KNOW it would be a "choice". Does that make sense?

No choice for my sexual orientation. Never ever ever thought about sex with a girl. YUK. LOL



[edit on 26-3-2010 by brilab45]

Why do some believe homosexuality is a "problem"? Please see my thread. I would like to know what YOU think.

when i first hit puberty, i naturally was attracted to females.
i did not go, "hm, she looks nice, but i really like the captain of the football team. i think i will choose him."

i was attracted to girls. never, ever, thought about guys. why can it not be the same for people who are gay? how many of the far right god squad have gay kids or are gay themselves? people are born this way. i have no problems with who loves who or who has sex with who as long as it is consensual and are of an age. i am not about to tell people who they can be with. i thought that was conservatism is about. freedom to be who i want to be?

reply to post by ModernAcademia


This is a really disappointing viewpoint to come across in this day and age.

Homosexuality is no more a choice than heterosexuality. I can not "choose" to be homosexual because that is not my natural inclination. By the same token, a person who is homosexual cannot be a heterosexual if it is not their natural inclination.

There is no choice involved as to what our natural inclinations happen to be.

reply to post by mefrosty


The majority of people that have a "problem" with homosexuality are religious fanatics.

For those who want or was taught to hate, well thats your "problem", not mine.

I hate brussel sprouts, but I don't write redilculous diatribes about it.

reply to post by Tykonos


WOW...Not sure just WHO the ignorant is here. Enlighten me.

Many peoples beliefs are THEIR FACTS, my friend. Too many of us (encluding myself) are intolerant to many of those beliefs.

Just because I would not agree with someone in their way of thinking, or doing, does not mean Ima gonna bash them. I dissassociate myself with those with whom I am not comfortable with.

Originally posted by brilab45
reply to post by mefrosty

 

The majority of people that have a "problem" with homosexuality are religious fanatics.

For those who want or was taught to hate, well thats your "problem", not mine.

I hate brussel sprouts, but I don't write redilculous diatribes about it.

Fanatic, my friend, is a very strong description. Gentle, gentle....remember tolerance, even to those who show you none.

Thank you, Thank you!! I just happen to LOVE brussel sprouts ! lololol

reply to post by Emerald The Paradigm

Hi, Emerald The Paradigm
Are you gay?
If you are gay, I commend you for willingly subjecting yourself to all the prejudice and irrational hatred towards homosexuals, unfortunately still present in our society, when you could take the easy way out and choose to be heterosexual instead.
If you are not gay, how can you state so categorically that it is a choice?
Have you studied genetics and biology so thoroughly that you have established, without the shadow of a doubt, that there is no possible mechanism which could determine the sexual orientation of a human being before birth?
If so, I would like to see your peer-reviewed scientific paper on the subject.
Thanks.

To be honest, it just seems too convenient to say homosexuality is a genetically inherited trait. Just purely by the fact that its so random and it may be common in one family, only one or two in another family, and non at all in a third family. Not only that but homosexuals will get offended if you compare homosexuality to cancer or defomities. The truth of the matter is something that is a physical trait that is a rare occurence and is not "normal" is a mutation, just like cancer or deformities. How do you define "normal"? Well "normal" is just what is common among the people; somthing that is not different from what is commonly seen or commonly happens. Homosexuality is not "normal". It may be "acceptable" but that doesn't make it "normal". And just bcuz it isn't "normal" doesn't make it "wrong". It just is what it is. Cancer is not "normal" but somone is not bad for having it. Cancer is also genetic, just like homosexuality is said to be. There is nothing "wrong" about genetic mutations. They are what they are. Sometimes they can or can't be changed. So if you want to say homosexuality is genetic then you are saying it is a genetic mutation. If you wish to argue that it is not, then say its a choice. Personally, I believe there are factors that predispose children to choosing that lifestyle that may not be fully understood. They cause the child to make a choice as he is becoming sexually mature which then he becomes accustomed to and continues to live that lifestyle. Simple. So IMO you're not "born that way". Just like if you become accustomed to not liking broccoli, or loving carrots. You connect broccoli with something bad and carrots with something good and become accustomed to the flavors of each and acquire a taste for one and a dislike for the other. It has nothing to do with genetics it is just the way you associate things in your own mind. So you may find women and sex pleasurable or you may find men and sex pleasurable. On the converse you might find each repulsive or enjoy both. Example is that I love coffee my friend hates coffee. She associates the bitter flavor as somthing bad and I associate it with good things.


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reply to post by maria_stardust


MA, Did you read my post to you?? I really wanted you to throw some feedback.

Thanks