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What right does the U.S. have to promote their brand of "Freedom"?

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posted on Jun, 4 2004 @ 07:48 PM
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The USA is hardly full of saints, but let's be realistic about "international law".

Did the U.N. officially explicitly approve

a) NATO overthrowing Milosevec
b) France's military intervention in Cote D'Ivoire?
c) Tanzania intervening in Rwanda to eliminate Idi Amin
d) USA bombing and overthrowing Taliban
e) the various interventions in Congo right now

No. Now where's the hysteria over "international law"? Who exactly elected our legally binding international legislators? (nobody. there aren't any.)

The whatever-america-wants-is-wrong crowd disapprove of the USA's slight flirtaiton with Saddam in the 1980's, presumably because Saddam was a bad guy then and the USA wanted to make money off oil and kill the Ayatollahs, and laud the French, German and Russian obstructionism now who wanted to preserve Saddam and their far larger mercenary deals from the 1980's on to the present.

They whine that 'exporting American values' is so horrible, and protect the export of radical illiberal Wahhabism from Saudi Arabia. And blame the USA for hypocrisy.

Presumably exporting "U.N. values" is good, but American values is bad? Didn't they get the message? Bin Laden wants to kill the U.N.ites too, that's why he blew up their building in Iraq.




posted on Jun, 4 2004 @ 07:56 PM
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Counterpoint:

What right does Germany (e.g.) have to export its own brand of "international law" when in practice that translates into supporting the legitimacy of Saddam Hussein and putting Sudan as head of the 'Human Rights' committee??

PS: the United States was not a party to the Treaty of Westphalia.



posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 01:07 AM
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For me the answer to the jail population is very simple and is right up your face on TV and everywhere. It's not even violence. It's all about money baby.

You live in a country where pwople sue themselves like no other place on earth. Hell You even have TV shows about people suewing eachother. As soon as someone do the slightest thing to you, you yell proudly "I will sew you for this!!". You break your leg at work and you sew the boss, blaming him. You smoke, then get sick, so you sue the tobacco compagny. You get fat, you sue McDonalds. Your dad discipline you with a slap, you sue him... The list is endless.

The fact that everyone blames everybody else for their problems IS the major reason for so many people in jail. They don't have the money to pay for the fine. And yet when I read all the replies here, still most people want to blame it to whatever else but them.

It is sad....



posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 08:09 PM
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What right does Germany (e.g.) have to export its own brand of "international law"



Would the correct answer be, the same equal "export" rights as every other U.N. member?



posted on Jun, 8 2004 @ 07:00 AM
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WarBucks:

Maybe I should be more specific. In your own words, what is "world law?" Now stop hiding behind the United Nations and give everyone reading a good answer


Am I here to teach you International Law? Take a walk over to the UN and do some clicking, you'll be able to read what you are interested in.

www.un.org...

My point in all this is that the US constantly flouts international law when it suits them, then they totally take advantage of it when it suits them. No International Criminal Court for the United States, but they demand others accept it.

mbkennel:

They whine that 'exporting American values' is so horrible, and protect the export of radical illiberal Wahhabism from Saudi Arabia. And blame the USA for hypocrisy.


Describe to me an American VALUE. Not a throwaway phrase like "Freedom" or "Democracy" (which, coincidentally, most countries in the world have, to whatever extent suits them). But an actual VALUE that you can say is SPECIFICALLY American. Something that, without US intervention, would never come about naturally.



The United States of America's government does NOT export Freedom and Prosperity to others. They do it when it PROFITS them, and when it doesn't they ignore it.

Ask Haiti, when the US was flying people who trying to escape BACK into a revolutionist war zone. Ask Rwanda.

Ask ANY of the dictatorial regimes around the world that the US regularly deals with without making any complaints about how they treat their people. Look at Pakistan, a fine example. Musharaf gained power by military coup, and it is FAR from a democracy. But they're a US ally for now because the US can use them...


The only thing the United States successfully exports to the world, other than Television, is Death.






[edit on 8-6-2004 by Jakomo]



posted on Jun, 8 2004 @ 07:04 AM
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Originally posted by Jakomo
The only thing the United States successfully exports to the world, other than Television, is Death.


That must include Death by Coke, Death by McDonalds and Death by Nike. It seems to follow.

But actually those brands and Microsoft have been shown to have suffered in terms of non-American consumer trust levels between 2003 and 2004 as a result of the mismanaged Iraq effort. Some brand leaders will be distancing themselves from American values to stop the rot.



posted on Jun, 8 2004 @ 07:38 AM
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MaskedAvatar:

That must include Death by Coke, Death by McDonalds and Death by Nike. It seems to follow.


Yeah, corporation-wise, the US has a lot of "evil empires" that are ONLY concerned with the bottom line and have no cares in the world about what happens to anyone else (let's call it Union Carbide Syndrome).

But you also have to look at the IMF and the World Bank to see why so many of the world's poor point to the United States as the single biggest factor that has led to such a world of "haves" and "have-nots".

Whether they are right or not, it's their perception.

Fix people's perceptions and you'll fix their actions.

Of course the first step is try to UNDERSTAND their perceptions, but that's one of the hardest things to do.



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