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What right does the U.S. have to promote their brand of "Freedom"?

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posted on May, 28 2004 @ 02:59 PM
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Here we have the country with by far the most of its' own citizens in JAIL. 1 out of every 75 males in the United States is currently INCARCERATED.

Is it that Americans are just the most violently criminal people in the world? Or is it that they have one of the most draconian and unfair legal systems in the world?

And yet, they want the rest of the world to believe that they are the Greatest Country in the World.

I know 1 out 75 American males who would strongly disagree.


www.commondreams.org...


Published on Friday, May 28, 2004 by the Associated Press
Report: 1 of Every 75 U.S. Men in Prison
by Connie Cass

WASHINGTON - America's inmate population grew by 2.9 percent last year, to almost 2.1 million people, with one of every 75 men living in prison or jail.

The inmate population continued its rise despite a fall in the crime rate and many states' efforts to reduce some sentences, especially for low-level drug offenders....

...But Attorney General John Ashcroft said the report shows the success of efforts to take hard-core criminals off the streets.

"It is no accident that violent crime is at a 30-year low while prison population is up," Ashcroft said. "Violent and recidivist criminals are getting tough sentences while law-abiding Americans are enjoying unprecedented safety."

There were 715 inmates for every 100,000 U.S. residents at midyear in 2003, up from 703 a year earlier, the report found.

The nation's incarceration rate tops the world, according to The Sentencing Project, another group that promotes alternatives to prison. That compares with a rate of 169 per 100,000 residents in Mexico, 116 in Canada and 143 for England and Wales.

Russia's prison population, which once rivaled the United States', has dropped to 584 per 100,000 because of prisoner amnesties in recent years, the group said.


Take THAT Russia! Repressive regimes can't compete with McDemocracy when it comes to throwing it's people behind bars!




posted on May, 28 2004 @ 03:04 PM
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So... We're supposed to not put people in jail when they commit crimes? What exactly are you trying to say...?



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 03:08 PM
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How many millions are in jail because of the war on drugs?
The prision system is nothing but Big Buisness anyway.
The legal system here sucks!



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 03:10 PM
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well you also have to take into consideration how many are there for white collar crimes, drug offenses (such as possession)...not all are violent and your implying it offends me.

this country has laws that make no sense and we lock people up when we could do something else with them besides letting them rot behind some bars with those who really are violent criminals.

i think you're going really far out on a very thin limb suggesting that america as a whole is violent by making the assumption that all criminals are violent themselves.



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 03:12 PM
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...But Attorney General John Ashcroft said the report shows the success of efforts to take hard-core criminals off the streets.


It's funny that Asscroft would bring this up considering his own nephew only got probation for growing a load of Marijuana. Tell me he didn't have a hand in that. Any the rest of us would be serving 10+ years by the feds rules.

Guess the rules don't apply the them and theirs.



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 03:29 PM
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Faisc:

So... We're supposed to not put people in jail when they commit crimes? What exactly are you trying to say...?


No, but I would like to hear a good explanation as to how the world's self-appointed Policeman has so many of its own citizens in jail. Far and above even Russia, which is no paragon of freedom or justice.

Again, is it that Americans are just basically more criminal than others or is it that the legal system is too draconian?

Doesn't it seem odd to you for so many of the American people to be behind bars?

Freedom implies, you know, the FREEDOM to make choices for your own life.

1 in 75 people in jail is NOT freedom, in fact, it implies a very very repressive government.

Am I wrong here in that assumption?



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 03:38 PM
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............ Jako, Russia kills most of their own people that are in jail, whether they are innocent or not, that's why there are not so many in their prisons....

61,911,000 Russians were killed under their communist regime from 1917 to 1987. That's how they don't have as many "criminals" in their jails... That's almost 62 million people...

You can find statistics on Russia and other communist countries genocide of their own people in this site.
www.hawaii.edu...

[Edited on 28-5-2004 by Muaddib]



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 03:50 PM
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I'd agree that our gov't locks people up for some pretty bogus reason's.

Just yesterday on NPR I heard that a guy is going to JAIL for not putting enough sunscreen on his daughter when they spent the day at the beach.

Now that's retarded.

He was charged with child abuse and could be sentanced for 1.5 years!!

Not for negligance, not for hitting his child, not for forgetting to use sunscreen on his daughter, but for not using ENOUGH sunscreen.

Honestly sometimes our justice system needs a swift kick in the head.



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 04:03 PM
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Muaddib:

61,911,000 Russians were killed under their communist regime from 1917 to 1987


Check your calendar. It's 2004. I'm talking about now, not 1987.

Because none of us are living in 1987 or 1917, we're living in 2004.

Nobody can answer my questions?



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 04:05 PM
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It is also a fact that our judicial system doesn't lock up some for long enough. Point being we need to do away with mandatory sentencing guidelines. There is something very wrong that a possession charge results in more jail time than a pedophilia charge.

It's also very apparent that these sentencing guidelines apply mainly to the poor. I was reading yeserday that they opened former Congressman Janklow's pardons while he was Governor. Turns out that he pardoned his son--in-law for DUI 3 times and again for a marijuana possession. Any other kid would have done serious time.



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 04:10 PM
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2.1 million men out of a nation of 281,421,906 people (according to the 2000 census) is not much.

There are a lot of innocents that are incarcerated, but blame the people who just want justice (which means, it doesn't matter if the person is innocent or not, they just want to see someone go down to make them feel better) and not the facts.

And violence is all over, don't blame America for their "draconian" and "unfair" legal system. I'd rather be incarcerated in America than in some country like Russia, China, or any country in the Middle East. At least in America I have many chances to prove my innocence (if I truly am innocent). Sometimes it doesn't work out that way, but, at least I have a possible chance.

Remember this: no legal system is perfect.



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 04:14 PM
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***Racist content removed***

[Edited on 28-5-2004 by Banshee]



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 04:43 PM
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Jako,

I agree with the previous comment about the overzealous "war on drugs"

But I also believe that the US accepts the "dregs"of the worlds population
into the country. Thats bites us in the butt, often (see 9/11 attack).

Japans number is really low, and may have somthing to do with it being such a homgeneous population/culture.

Another reason may be that not many die in prison in the US, they are fed well, receive medical attention etc..


Banshee,

About the racist content..I read that as the US "goes after" people of color
more than whites. But maybe I'm wrong on that.



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 04:49 PM
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From Jakomo:


Is it that Americans are just the most violently criminal people in the world? Or is it that they have one of the most draconian and unfair legal systems in the world?

Surely you don't want us to debate under the assumption that these are the only two possibilities, do you?



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 04:53 PM
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Jako,

I forgot to ask in my last post.

What is your preferred brand of "Freedom" ?



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by Jakomo
Muaddib:

61,911,000 Russians were killed under their communist regime from 1917 to 1987


Check your calendar. It's 2004. I'm talking about now, not 1987.

Because none of us are living in 1987 or 1917, we're living in 2004.

Nobody can answer my questions?


Jako....there are criminals in the US from the 80s still in prison and earlier...............

BTW you do know that there have been wars over there since the 90s to recently don't you? Even after the supposed fall of communism there have been massacres, war, etc, etc.


[Edited on 28-5-2004 by Muaddib]



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 05:07 PM
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I believe the reason the Judicial system here sucks is because of the Lawyers. They pick at every law and rule with a fine comb so as to find any little loop-hole to get thier clients out of trouble. They tell their client to lie and they try to lure the jury into believing thier story. But on the flip side of the coin, the Prosecutors are not any better. Everyone remembers the O.J. Simpson trial with Jonny Cochrun yelling "If the glove doesn't fit, you must aquite" How LAME!!!!!!!!! IMHO of course........



JW



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 05:53 PM
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Seems to me that 1 in 75 is not bad at all, when compared to 2002 when there was 1 out of 143?!


Where were you in 2002, Jako? Was your voice and opinions being heard concerning your steady condemnation of the US then? Strictly the US, eh Jako? No mention of China? No mention of Russia, no nothing but an article from where......commondreams.org? WTF? With the amount of credible information on the subject and al you can quote from is commondreams?

Yeah, we lead the world, so what!
Does the United States lead the world in prison population?

You then throw in your ever used banter of:


And yet, they want the rest of the world to believe that they are the Greatest Country in the World.


Huh?

What a joke.
Its apparent that you have no clue on what determines that specific category of "Greatest Country in the World", do you?
Have you bothered to also investigate what makes the US the supposed "Greatest Country in the World"? Have you listed those things that fall into that subcribed category? No!
All you do, as you always have, is continue to point out what is not right with the US.....interesting and tiresome really, and NOT even a citizen of this country and yet you feel you have the right to judge? Enlighten me Jako. I'll ask again, do you live in the US? Uhhh, opps, I forgot, you live in Canoooda. Ahhh, I see. Shall we go into topics of how Canoooda is about as screwed up as you make the US seem to be?
You make no sense at all. A clueless Inspector Clueso? I dunno, but I am seriously wondering.


seekerof



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 05:54 PM
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The war on drugs is why so many americans are in jail. Someone who as been charged with a drug related offence almost all ways dose more time then real criminals. Case in point the guy who murdered my father only did 9 years. yet another guy I know did 10 years for drug sales. The war on drugs is not a war on drugs it is a war on the people. The way there word it makes it easy to jail people as inmate , when they should be P.O.W's



posted on May, 28 2004 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by Red_Rocket
I'd agree that our gov't locks people up for some pretty bogus reason's.

Just yesterday on NPR I heard that a guy is going to JAIL for not putting enough sunscreen on his daughter when they spent the day at the beach.

Now that's retarded.

He was charged with child abuse and could be sentanced for 1.5 years!!

Not for negligance, not for hitting his child, not for forgetting to use sunscreen on his daughter, but for not using ENOUGH sunscreen.

Honestly sometimes our justice system needs a swift kick in the head.



This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I am laughing so much I can bearly breathe.

If this is true then there is not a free man left in America. Realise if you live in a world where your government can imprision you for child abuse if your kids arent wearing sunscreen, its a nanny state.

The only choice its seems Americans have left is the choice of what to buy at the mall.




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