What is wrong with the ATS membership right now ? !!

Originally posted by captiva
Good morning from Scotland. Having scanned the posts to the thread there are some things that I should say.

In no particular order........

The OP was not a rant, the OP was asking for opinions and an attempt to have posters look at their own method of dealing with ideas and views that are opposed to their own.

The OP also asked the question..." does anyone else agree that the boards have recently shown more abusive behavious, rudeness and lack of civility....... and do you think that this is in correlation with threads such as the spiral, could the bahaviours be viewed as deliberate derailment in such threads and is this a pointer to how close to the truth the threads are.

If I may add, some of the posts to this thread could have been scripted as they indicated exactly the bahaviours I was indicating in the OP.

For those that griped about " Just another thread"...with respects, why dont you just ignore the thread and go spend your time in your chosen threads.

For those that posted their opinionsa, feelings and honest views. Thank you.


Respects

I agree with you completely captiva... Star + Flag

Although there has ALWAYS been rude people, we have seen an upsurge in rudeness, intolerance and sarcasm.

Some people seem to be pushing it as close to the boundaries as they can.

In fact whole threads have been started that are based totally on Satire... it may seem funny to some, but to those, whose view points are being mocked, it is offensive and diverts sensible conversation away from what should be a serious issue.

I believe that there are many reasons for this... but here are four of them...

1) I believe that ATS has been infiltrated by certain groups who have an agenda. Normally that agenda is to stifle any opposition to their particular beliefs/ideology by any means necessary!

2) The increased popularity of ATS has encouraged more of the general population (and by this I mean people who wouldn’t normally be interested in conspiracies) onto the site. This is good and bad... Good because it means we have a wider range of opinions... Bad because some of those people do not understand how to conduct themselves when dealing with someone of an opposing viewpoint.

3) Society as a whole is becoming more and more selfish. People seem to have more attitude when it comes to their self belief and are happy to stick their fingers in their ears and sing while someone else is trying to express an opinion. Arrogance, Selfishness, Anger and blame are all negative emotions/viewpoints which are on the increase in society!
Normally, if I see a thread that is completely off the wall, I will just continue on past it until I find something of interest. Sometimes I will stop and express my opinion and raise some questions regarding the validity of the post. However, some people feel it is their duty to ridicule and mock the author of such posts... it’s akin to bullying in my opinion!
There are multiple reasons for this (Media influence, Materialism, Politics, internet etc...) which could be a whole thread by itself!!

4) Modern people seem to have an abundant supply of knowledge, thanks to the internet, but lack the wisdom to interpret that knowledge or the moral background to know how to use the knowledge.
People no longer have to earn their knowledge... they no longer have to work hard for years and years collecting data, forming hypothesis, testing ideas, they simply download it and spout it as if it’s their own. In essence, they are running before they can walk!


I actually feel sympathy towards the ATS moderators... it is a very hard job when you think about it... When people are being disruptive, belligerent, and rude, how do you stop them without yourself becoming accused of being part of a conspiracy to silence an opposing opinion that is, in the opinion of the belligerent author, merely passionate???

reply to post by rexusdiablos


Maybe he likes conspiracy theories, but likes evidence even more? If a conspiracy theory doesn't have supporting evidence, it's nothing.

Rational thought is the only way to learn. Most conspiracy theories on this site don't have the slightest shred of evidence behind them, yet people still scream from the rooftops that they're true.

It's pathetic.

reply to post by captiva


Indeed there has been many people "personally" attacking other people. I am part of neither group, but I, like you, see this happening.

Just like Mulder and Scully, we need opposites, skeptics and believers are the best combination. But when it comes to verbally attacking someone or making another person feel negative, this creates a negative atmosphere within ATS.

Ive been reading ATS for nearly 10 years and only registered very recently, I too agree there have been an increase on people who are not researchers (skeptics or believers), they are kids that use to get a kick out of laughing at people on YouTube. Now they have moved here and are making up stories, childish theories and making this place look like a paranoid beehive.

ATS had a world wide renowned respected name, even though many stated that ATS has been filled with counterintelligence agents from its establishment, it was still a better place until the "stereotypical 2012 argumentative n00bs who hate people that research alternative topics" started coming in through the front door.

Those from the old days know what I mean. It was a big thing when Jim Marrs and John Lear came here along with many others. Anyway, I respect old skool style. Lets maintain it.



[edit on 13/12/2009 by the_denv]

and so the cycle continues.

next week another mothership landing thread, another imminent disclosure thread, another 2012 theory thread, another imminent nuclear war thread, another beautiful places on earth thread, another strange structures on the moon thread and yes, another cheap sentimental thread like this one.

you think, [OP] is the first one to point this out, well, then people who find loop holes in the 911 attacks or new structures on mars every week also think they are the first ones to think of their brilliant theory...

and yes, i guarantee another theory of existence in the 'psycho' forums

point is, the sane people who come here only come to be entertained, not for 'information'.

so dont blame people when people make fun of nut jobs who predict the end of the world or, see blurry manufacturing plants on the moon or pyramid shaped ufo's over moscow...

put it this way, if you go out and show pictures of blurry craters and rocks on the moon and call them human skulls or power plants and they put you in the looney bin, what makes you think people here will tolerate you because you do it online?

You say that SANE people come here only to be entertained and to laugh at the nut-jobs, and not for information, well those people should not be here in the fisrt place. I know it is a free world ( as if ) and people have free speech ( as if ) well we should be left in peace and allowed to go on searching, even if it is only for our marbles.

[edit on 13-12-2009 by Qwenn]

Originally posted by Kram09
reply to post by davesidious

 

A good example to illustrate your point, is the recent thread where someone claimed to be from one of the "bloodlines." The person gave no evidence to back up his claim or give us reason to believe him, yet everyone lapped up what he was saying as if it was the gospel. It was embarrassing to be honest.

i agree...there is a difference between "deny ignorance" and "accept any belief". we as humans are built to question everything told to us. we survived down through the ages, by making decisions to trust, or not to trust.

To the OP:

I think perhaps you may be uncomfortable with the terse responses some people are getting in regards to irratinal clinging to ideas that have been explained.

I can understand your frustration that there is not harmony in the site, but there shouldn't be and the site shouldn't be about someone seeing a water droplet and exploding that into a 300 mile wide ufo over leicester square on sunday afternoon and you should believe it whether it was there or not.

there are a great many posts that are ludicrous, irrational and deluxe rehashed debunked nonsense from the almost forgotten recent past.

Deny ignorance means to deny the ignorant their soapbox as well.

In the Norwegian rocket flap, so many people just wanted to hang onto their irrational ideas after having it clearly explained to them as to what that was.

I don't have a problem with it when someone gets fed up with another who is clinging to their fear, illogical point of view or trying to create a whole meme from a hill of beans.

The supply of idiots on ATS is unlimited. The supply of intelligent members, who actually do deny ignorance, is limited.
I don't come here just to suggest a theory. I come here to discuss what one or another thing might actually be. Suggesting theories on a discussion board without an explanation is just stupid. And it makes me think that people, who cling to their wormhole/HAARP/Flying-Spaghettimonster theory, may have some kind of a mental problem. These people ignore all logic and that pisses me off.

JUst watch the grammer. Sometimes in a thread there will be a string of negative replies from people who've all registered with a month, weeks, or days of each other. Sometimes it's the same person. One troll many names. It's especially disgusting when they reply to one another. Peoples' writing styles are rarely ever the same- mine tend to drone on and use run on sentences.
An interesting experiment would be to check the reply times sometimes they occur simultaneously or within seconds.
Trolling should be considered a new form of psychosis.
And then there are the regular jerkwad ATSers here. I accept them because they tend to give balance.

reply to post by DGFenrir


Let me guess which side of the supply you consider yourself to be on.

Second line just to generally say ... You can oppose someone's view or statement without resorting to insult, ridicule, or any sort of nasty verbal assault.

To those who come here just to bait and ridicule those who might express a different viewpoint of reality, as someone admitted to within this thread ... please GROW UP!

This is a conspiracy site ... it is a place for people to discuss and share 'out there' theories, events and possibilities. By lashing out at people with insult or ridicule you discourage further discussion and people's propensity to share any info or event that might be outside the norm. In a place like ATS I call that 'Throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

... or perhaps this is what some here would like to see

reply to post by captiva


" What is wrong with the ATS membership right now " ? !!


what the OP points out is that there seem more of the vocal 'debunkers' in the very recent days...and these 'debunkers' are posting the 'Deny Ignorance' slogan as a type of catch-all which supports their viewpoint, in defience to the equally passionate posters with mindscapes that are too outlandish,as the 'debunkers'see it.
I personally do not see a recent turn in aggressive, mudslinging and put-down language. It may be more that the OP has a raw nerve exposed & suddenly sees stinging words as abusive & rude language.

then there is the stand that there is no 'supporting evidence' for some members viewpoint, and therefore has no business in any thread. (wow, thats harsh)
since every thread is open to discussion and is not a academic term paper
subject to critical grading by the thread author/mods/super mods.

I recall that during the hindsight reconstruction of 911 Intelligence procedures,
we were informed that info and tips were screened & considered crap if the info
or tip did not come from a short list of 'reliable sources'...
which pretty much mirrors the current objection that someone's 'wacky' conspiracy
is not worth the posting entry space because it does not have 'supporting evidence'...
all this shows is a form of In-tollerence,

hey this topic has too many points to address in a single post reply. I guess ya'll get the general idea though.
Thanks




General Sample

If a conspiracy theory doesn't have supporting evidence, it's nothing.
Rational thought is the only way to learn.
Most conspiracy theories on this site don't have the slightest shred of evidence behind them...

OP language:

In the last 2 months I have noted an increase in what some call debunkers
which has culminated in a lack of courtesy and downride rudeness in the posts since Thursday and the Norway spiral.
I note also that denying ignorance is being used as a banner when ideas dont agree with some posters.
This is not the ATS I know, or have known.

The debate forum has a list of governing rules, all other threads are open discussion, including having & expressing subjective opinions/conspiracies/viewpoints... without qualifying 'proofs' needed


thanks again,
(this could get exhausting!)

What I noticed, is when a so called "debunker" rolls around and offers plausible theories or explanations, they are quickly called "programmed" "disinfo agents" or "not awake" or ...and the list goes on.

To people with plausible theories, this is as bad as being called "crackpots" or "loonies" etc.

With two extreme sides of opinions meeting up...I'm surprised that there isn't more. However, everyone holds back and all the moderators/owners do a great job to keep it at a minimum. There is great info on both sides sometimes.

If everyone has their own version of blinder vision,(which is evident a lot of the time) are we really "denying ignorance"? or just propagating it.

Originally posted by djusdjus


Deny ignorance means to deny the ignorant their soapbox as well.

That has to be one of the classic, all-time horse manure statements I have ever had the (dis)pleasure of reading.

Who decides what falls into the 'ignorant' box?... you? ... What if the vast majority here decide that everything coming out of your mouth is ignorant and decide to deny your soapbox?

Ah, I see ... the label of 'ignorant' only applies to others, not you. Got it

Originally posted by captiva
What is wrong with the ATS membership right now ? !!

I would say that it's a phase. Sometimes it gets so "bad" around here I can't stand it. So I have to take a break. But I always come back because of the ideal of ATS. What it's supposed to be. What I think it was meant to be.

If you keep your center and don't let people pull your around by your emotions, You'll do well.

Don't allow the low bar to be set by the most hate-filled and ignorant members, who have NO CLUE of what "deny ignorance" means. Because there will be those who are attracted to that level and will gravitate to it. That brings all of ATS down. Set your own bar as high as you can and challenge others to meet it.

And deny ignorance. Willfull and otherwise.

There is a WAR here on ATS...

Right, a strange war fight from "some" people from "Agency" right here on ATS.

A "dirty" war not declared and fighted whith unconventional "weapons" of truth destruction. Infiltrated and Fifth columns from "Agencies" are here, among us and that they want to bury or to alter some truth which emerges on some Threads.

All the opinions are respectables, but some behaviors of some people are absolutely very, very suspiciones…


[edit on 13-12-2009 by Imagir]

reply to post by captiva


Thank you.

The increase of debunkers on ATS is like the increase of political fanatics we had a few months ago. There is no need for disinfo agents and people trying to stop the flow of an intelligent debate. Although a voice of reason is always welcome.

reply to post by Dagar


Yes, discuss, provide evidence or logical explanations to those out there theories. But I didn't see any logical explanations to the "Flying-Spaghettimonster over Norway" theories.

+ People are constantly asking the same old questions that have been answered several times. They are even starting new threads for those questions. They are lazy and ignorant.

Oh, I have experience with kid's fireworks thus this isn't missile. It's HAARP

When yo uask the person how does HAARP work or how did it create the phenomena he responds that he doesn't know.

If that's not ridiculous then what is?

[edit on 13/12/2009 by DGFenrir]

Originally posted by Bachfin
I think the answer is simple with all this climategate and stuff too much info is leaking out about lots of things so the BTB have teams of people online now in various fourms debunking/derailing/baiting people in a attempt to distract and confuse the issues and get us fighting amongst ourselves instead of talking about the real issues.

CIA mosad mi6 have all stated they were gonna wage an internet war against bloggers/fourms I think this is the result of that.

Don't let it get to you, don't get drawn into the infighting.

Exactly! Some of the information here is too explosive for the ptb and must be "debunked" at all costs. I have noticed posters log-in and out every 10-15 minutes or to put it simply everytime something controversial is posted you will get a reply! Not normal at all........

I am absolutely sure there is a disinfo campaign in progress. Some people do not care AT ALL about learning, they only care about derailing and debunking. You can give them 10 links to follow and they won't bother look at anything. They will call your info bunk and insult you.

When I was a new member it used to bother me but I realise the nature of the beast is secrecy. Only with secrecy can they win. At the same time they must maintain the illusion that "everything is ok" so they allow people to post their "crazy" ideas/theories and attack it afterwords. Its called plugging a leak, much like a plumber does.

[edit on 13-12-2009 by EarthCitizen07]

reply to post by Demoncreeper


That's not true because people here seem to fond of Phage.
There's a difference between a debunker and using logic to analyze a theory.

[edit on 13-12-2009 by Teeky]

Originally posted by DGFenrir
reply to post by Dagar

 

Yes, discuss, provide evidence or logical explanations to those out there theories. But I didn't see any logical explanations to the "Flying-Spaghettimonster over Norway" theories.

So suddenly people disagreeing with, or questioning the 'official' missile explanation are raving loonies who believe in a Flying-Spaghetti monster. If you can't see how insulting and smug your comment is - not to mention wrong - there really is no hope.

I actually lean towards it being a missile ... one that produced one hell of a fluke effect in the sky, but most likely a missile. I will not, however, belittle those that might disagree with that, WHATEVER their reasons for doing so might be. I will also openly admit that the possibility exists that the missile theory (and my opinion) might be wrong, as nothing has been proven beyond any doubt.

I have to say, with your dismissive, arrogant and smug attitude, something shared by a few others here, you are part of the problem... not the solution. It is closed minds like your's (and a few others here) that stifle debate and the exploration of alternative ideas ... the very reason why ATS exists.

Originally posted by DGFenrir+ People are constantly asking the same old questions that have been answered several times. They are even starting new threads for those questions. They are lazy and ignorant.

Perhaps the answers given for those people, aren't conclusive enough. Their continuing to search for answers should be applauded, NOT derided and ridiculed. Just because, in your own mind, you've decided the case is closed does not mean others shouldn't be allowed to carry on questioning. If the questions annoy you, ignore them. You've arrived at your conclusions, allow others to do the same, in their own time and by their own criteria.

Originally posted by DGFenrir

Oh, I have experience with kid's fireworks thus this isn't missile. It's HAARP

When yo uask the person how does HAARP work or how did it create the phenomena he responds that he doesn't know.

If that's not ridiculous then what is?

[edit on 13/12/2009 by DGFenrir]

I see... we're back to ridicule again. Tell me, does labelling others as ridiculous give you a rush, a sense of smug superiority?

So some are making illogical statements or assumptions. Well here's a thought... instead of laughing at them why not point it out. If they take notice you've just done a good service... if they don't, well, one day they might realise the flaws in their statements.

Point I'm trying to make... again ... Ridiculing, attacking, and stifling others is not the way to Deny Ignorance.