What is wrong with the ATS membership right now ? !!

It's important to remember there are a number of "different ATSs." That is to say, for example, there are political threads, there are religious threads, there are UFO threads, there are speculative threads about ancient civilizations. and so on. We have everything here from hardheaded number-crunching-based discussions on collateralized debt obligations to people plotting the supposed orbit of Planet Nibru on the dark side of the solar system. "Lotta strands. Lotta strands in the old duder's head," as a certain Mr. Lebowski once opined.

That's one of the things I love about this board, but when you have so many different topics attracting people of vastly different character, you are bound to see the sparks fly.

In my opinion, the mods do an excellent job of keeping things civil and meaningful. But another issue is that I imagine there are a lot of newer posters who have been drawn here in recent days because they no longer trust the MSM. The board and its ettiquite take a while to get used to. Many newcomers may be used to more "rough-and-tumble" Internet sandboxes that allow stronger language, personal insults, and various forms of fly-by-night posting. When they come here, it may take a while for them to "simmer down." Its up to those of us who care about the board to set the tone and keep things the way we want it to be by example.

I am open to debate. Yet, it should be respectful and courteous. Civility for some reason has been thrown out the window...and most debate regularly turns into a raucous, roiling, bare knuckle, bar room, fist fight on these boards.

It is too bad that there isn't a stupidity filter. There are so many absolutely brilliant posters, who do wonderful jobs of researching the information they share with us, and also seem to have a cadre of followers, who will frost the cake with intelligent questions, and help make the whole post an enlightening forte of excellence.

Some do it because they are natural educators, and want to entertain us with very cool information. They make learning fun.
Others, are in for the stars! Anything will do, as long as they amass stars. These posts, are usually titillating, provocative and anti-something or someone. Anything "Nazi" also works well.

There are too many idiots who love to post idiotic remarks, and argue for the sake of arguments. Nothing more. We have all seen this happen to very good discussions, where some one will jump in, and lay a huge steaming vernacular turd on the board. There is no reason for it, other than to be a trouble maker. They'll call someone a name, make a rude remark about their intelligence, call the information false, fake, or have their rabid ATS cliques gang up, and take on one or more individuals, like a pack of mad dogs after a single bowl of Gravy Train.

I have often been totally disgusted watching some of the finer blogs be taken down into the open sewer pit...of total moron bull---t!

Too many dopers, drunks, and other substance abusers sit here, and offer up their whacked profundities...thinking we're impressed. Too many religious zealots, and haters look for any opportunity to stir trouble. Too many God doubters, and haters, want to crucify anyone who has faith in anything other than money or wealth. Too many God-haters, want to denounce the divine with vile vitriol, and challenges to the faithful. "Prove GOD exists!" is their drawn sword of hate pointed towards you. I say; "Prove God does not exist, and I might then pay attention...until then, go away!"

I think many intelligent posters, have basically given up. They have lost interest, and feel there is no point in suffering fools. They take their knowledge, and share it with others, off post, who show they are genuinely intrigued. ATS' quality of posts suffers as a result.

The debunkers and trouble makers are ruining the ATS educational playground with their constant tags. The place is beginning to look like a blighted area. I wish it weren't so. But, everyone is noticing it! I don't even visit as much as I used to. It is now down to a couple times a month.
Broadcast television is nothing but crap, and now alternatives like ATS/BTS are turning into mind goo as well.

I hope the tread reverses soon. I really enjoy cool factual information! Or the very least, something to make me think deeply and rethink old paradigms and beliefs. That is what becoming enlightened is about ...

reply to post by Imagir

There is a WAR here on ATS...

Right, a strange war fight from "some" people from "Agency" right here on ATS.

You are absolutely correct.

A "dirty" war not declared and fighted whith unconventional "weapons" of truth destruction. Infiltrated and Fifth columns from "Agencies" are here, among us and that they want to bury or to alter some truth which emerges on some Threads.

People should be aware there are many “Agencies” with many agendas; all are in here to derail the truth. Many of these hired derailers only concentrate on one particular thread topic and do not post in any other forums on ATS.

I have spent years researching the events of 911 and I mostly post in the 911 threads.
It is my passion to present facts that disprove the OS of 911.

I know of five posters who have been members of ATS for several years. Most of these posters have accumulated little to no points and some do not even have an Avatar. These people know how to walk the fine line of not being banned, and are very good at manipulating the facts and are well verse in the art of disinformation. These same posters do not post in any other threads but 911. They spend night and day ridiculing the truth and attacking everyone in these 911 threads, that is their only goal.

My goal is to defend the truth. Yes, I have a problem with lairs who take great joy in twisting the facts and hurting others.








[edit on 14-12-2009 by impressme]

I've noticed this too. I do not get to ATS much in the fall, but I swing by nowandthen. I think ATS has its mood swings. People come and go and the tone changes.

Hang in there.

By the way, was there a new thread about D4rK N1ghtes? I did a search and this was the only thread to come up. I followed that material back when, and I would love to know if there has been an update. Thanks.

The lack of self examination before pressing the post reply button has contributed to many problems. The blatent refusal to R-E-A-D critically simply adds to the confusion and idiocy.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 13-12-2009 by EMPIRE]

reply to post by captiva


it's called infiltration.....

It's pretty easy to see the people who aren't really here to learn any useful knowledge..

You can pick out the people with an agenda, if you give them time...

Use these people's words against them......they can be their own worst enemies because their mind is not balanced....

I also have noticed this, but for much longer than 2 months......maybe last 6-9 months...

The real question though, is why is it allowed?

It's the allowers who cause the real problems, because instead of addressing the problem at the source, they allow others to be generalized in with these people...

Trust me when i say Karma is a B*tch and they will get theirs......probably in a next life or somehow...

Life is set up currently to where the debunkers have the advantage.......

That is just how it is...

That mixed with the people who regardless of proof, will still believe what they want.
Which is fine, but don't yell at me for studying facts when you lack the will too..


Stay the course if what knowledge you know, is really true and you honestly believe it, yet do not believe it so much as to block out all other ideas, and rational thoughts....


People who are unwilling to acknowledge differences , and their own faults, have problems.....


Deny Ignorance right?

Why then are some truths on this site blocked?


I for the most part have few complaints and if I do , usually let them play out to see if I still feel that way a week or so from now...

Anyways, that wasn't bashing this site, because I have learned so much from either knowledge gained here or linked from here and also just the questions and opening of the mind..


If you refuse to believe in anything but what you know, then you don't actually know all......because all does exist...in some way shape or form........


That and take a break from this site for a week or so every so often, just so you don't get so heated about the small things...

Then come back with a clear and open mind and re-assess what you think or want to find out...

This site is extremely useful , if you know how to use it right, and know when not to buy into a load of crap....

I also have noticed the decrease of intelligent debunkers who actually bring valid and logical points, instead of just mocking the initial argument..

Debunkers should be here to enlighten us and teach us and help us learn, not to ridicule us and belittle us and tell us we are weird and dumb......

There must be balance though.....we need debunkers.......without them , we would only know half truths...

[edit on 13-12-2009 by LucidDreamer85]

I feel that ATS is quite possibly the most dangerous website on the internet.

Its one thing to say "Is this an alien craft?" and its another to say "where all going to die, build underground bunkers".

There are so so many people who are weak minded and easily influenced, who are preyed upon, this causes an extremely dangerous situation, because it borders on cultism and fanatics.

People do not realise this at all and are more then happy to accept the way things are, but if your son and daughter went to a religious fanatics house every day all day, i'm sure you'd become concerned and this is the same thing with the wild and highly speculative threads.

The mods in my opinion are just not strict enough, they need to monitor the "highly speculative" sub forums with a pinch of common sense and heavily moderate threads that post wild and highly influencing topics.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to say the "i'm a lizard alien, ask me questions" threads shouldn't be stopped, just watched extremely closely and moderated.

But one thing I'm sick to the back teeth of, is the proof threads!!!!!!!!

Proof of xyz!!

Then they don't post anything resembling proof. For the love of god, when you post proof in your title, you need to be held accountable for it.

Originally posted by LiveForever8

 

 

What a shame that people who log onto a thread a little (too) late, find certain offtopic comments deleted by moderators, while the replies to the deleted comment remain intact. It becomes especially intruiging when a deleted post has received so many stars!! I am dying to know what whas in the above post..!

Originally posted by captiva
I have been a willing contributer to ATS and have learned so much in my nearly 2 years membership.

In the last 2 months I have noted an increase in what some call debunkers which has culminated in a lack of courtesy and downride rudeness in the posts since Thursday and the Norway spiral.

I note also that denying ignorance is being used as a banner when ideas dont agree with some posters. This is not the ATS I know, or have known.

Sure, some ideas are off the wall, heck Im privy to some of my own, but like many others in here I would not take kindly to remarks such as " go light your bong" , and many other discouraging remarks being banded about these last few days.

Maybe we are closer to finding out the truth about the spiral, the mothership and D4rK N1ghtes prophesy, as Ive also noted some of those being rude seem to have joined the membership today, yesterday just in time to derail and debunk some realy important threads.

Some things to remember. Ignore those who try to anger you, stay on track in the threads and use your brain while in debate, not your venom.

There is an "Ignore" option. Use it if need be and dont get caught up in the mish-mash of diffirent derailing tactics.

I personally feel that we are close to a breakthrough in some realy important topics that have been raised time and time again in the last 6 months. Please remember why we joined this freedom of information movement that is ATS and let others ideas contribute to your own. Everyone has something to offer and we all have something to learn.

Respects

[edit on 12-12-2009 by captiva]

If you really think there's gonna be a "breakthrough" any time soon you have been here long enough... maybe refutations are coming more quickly than they used to, but this place has ALWAYS taken a VERY sceptical eye on almost everything.

I think you probably need to just sack up.

Ok. So we start a thread complaining about debunkers and rudeness. Well I agree that rudeness is very counter-productive and should not be tolerated. BUT.... When you start a post about spirals, motherships and prophecy, someone is bound to try and disprove it. This mission statement of Deny Ignorance is just that....

Dont get your feelers all hurt when someone gives thier opinion on what the heck they think is up with these issues. Just my 2 cents.

I would suggest to everyone here not to get so worked up about something you read in a public forum on the internet...until you are sure that what you are reading/watching is actually real. And so far I havent seen 100 percent proof on any aliens, prophecy, spirals, lizard men, vampire, zombie, bigfeets or anything else.

There is a reason that the general public believe that people like us are sitting around in our underwear wearing tin-foil hats and chanting to quartz crystal shrines... Because people get so passionate about subjects that are questionable to reason, logic and welll...reality..

Hope this doesnt offend anyone.. Again I am here, a member, reading all the stuff daily following links to hopefully "burn my box" so to speak. But lets get real for a second. The MAJORITY of the world thinks we are all crazies! Deal with it!

reply to post by captiva


I could have said the same thing about a week ago.

When I signed up to ATS, I was actually worried that my first post would get me banned for breaking a rule...

Then, slowly I realize lots of people are using all caps (shouting) and insulting others.

What I remember was that anything I post should be in a civilized manner, as if I were in a room with the same people I was discussing a topic with or debating.

Yet, here we are seeing such aggression and rude messages. I wouldn't want to be a part of most of these discussions if they were taking place in a real setting; it's be a mess, to say the least.

Originally posted by andy1033
reply to post by captiva

 

one of the most open boards on the net
But we can all ignore the posts we choose.

With all due respect I'll have to strongly disagree.
ATS is one of the MOST over moderated boards in the history of the universe!
With all the censoring, sorry, "moderating", you'd think we were in Stasiland or some such.
In all honesty, you'd think the mods here went looking for the mere hint of "thought crimes" in order to justify their positions of power. Parking police quota system anyone?

I wrote this on another forum and I thought it was apt to post it here aswell. I for one think its a good thing that other people can see what its all about.

The thing is these things are right infront of our eyes, but it takes a change of perception to see them for what they are

Pick a thread any POPULAR thread and tell me what you see.........

On page 1 you will find an interesting topic full of very informative data.

On page 2 you will find intrigued members asking the OP questions and relating experiences/knowledge

On page 3 you will find that the wolves have arrived and have started to circle their prey.

On page 4 you will find the pack leader going in for the kill, whilst the others watch from the sidelines, getting ready to join in when told to.

On Phage 5 onwards, All the wolves are feasting and the original data that the OP provided is lost.

I have been sitting on the sidelines for a while now therefore, I can relate to what is being said.

There is no doubt in my mind that this site is riddled with GROUPS of debunkers. These are people that are either paid or feel loyal to their country in order to dereail important topics so that the general public are not made aware of anything outside their remit.

I urge anyone to put this to the test and step aside and view this site from a distance, you will be suprised at what you see.

Yes ATS is a business but IMHO (from a view of sitting on the sidelines) it is much much more than that.

Edit: Structure






[edit on 14-12-2009 by franspeakfree]

I got someone adding me as a foe, because I said to someone jokingly and sarcastically that what he had replied to had already been said

reply to post by captiva
You are right in my opinion.

Debunking is sometimes meant as intellegent questioning and sometimes meant as a form of bullying to shut down and shut out the OP.

I too have noticed more hostile debunking and wonder if some of them are governmental agents of some kind.

A lot of people do actually lie, to get attention, their reality is not all there and or they are practicing their art of story telling.

However, if just a fraction of what is being seen and talked about on ATS alone is true, there is much we have to learn.

Also, keep in mind, we are a infinite consciousness trapped inside of a 3d body on a 3d plane of existence.

We, most of us may not be catching everything with our limited 6 senses.

There is always the possiblity that some of us can and do see and hear things that others aren't "picking up".

As stated before, I think some of the debunking is intentional and "paid". When enough of us open minded people get together and talk we just may find out more and that may be a real threat to TBTB.

It's amazing that while I am located almost smack in the middle of America, that someone from LA, London or Sydney can inform me what is happening in their section of the planet at this very moment.

It is just a humble suggestion, but I wish people would be a little more open and not "shut down" the people posting so quickly.

If I think it's a prepostous story I simply back out and go elsewhere, I don't blast them or star them. Who knows, truth has been proven stranger than fiction many times.

What people might want to think about is that the one person you blast away at and shut down (will not post again or go deeper with their post) might very well be the person that holds a large piece of the puzzle.

I've always learned more by listening than speaking.


[edit on 14-12-2009 by ofhumandescent]

reply to post by Teki187


The easiest way to spot a debunker is by *use of authority* and if you don't accept *the current status-quo* there is something wrong with you.

I find this behavior unacceptable for many reasons. (1)this is a conspiracy site therefore unorthodox opinions will be presented (2)what gives you the right to criticise someone else's viewpoint? Are you the ats judge? Even moderators pretend to be neutral and drop the hammer sparingly. (3) Most conspiracy theorists do present evidence, although not necessarily proof to some/many, only to have it ignored or used against them (4)If you don't like a topic it is better to ignore it, just like in real life. (5)If you don't like the site then find a different one.

There is absolutely no reason to join a thread and *argue for the sake of arguing* pages upon pages at a time. At the very least it is a sign of immaturity and at worse it speaks of dishonest intentions. Please just leave us "loonies" alone AND GET A LIFE!

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by Teki187

 

The easiest way to spot a debunker is by *use of authority* and if you don't accept *the current status-quo* there is something wrong with you.

Right, i agree, blindly following the status quo is a bad thing, but so is blindly following the believe that my cat can talk to me, i don't think that, but its on the same lines.

I find this behavior unacceptable for many reasons. (1)this is a conspiracy site therefore unorthodox opinions will be presented

Your right, this is a conspiracy website, but lets define that:

Conspiracy theory is a term that originally was a neutral descriptor for any conspiracy claim. However, it has come almost exclusively to refer to any fringe theory which explains a historical or current event as the result of a secret plot by conspirators of almost superhuman power and cunning.[1][2]

Conspiracy theories are viewed with skepticism and often ridiculed because they are seldom supported by any conclusive evidence

ANYTHING venturing away from that, is not a conspiracy theory and as such shouldn't belong here.

Now, to create a valid CT all you need to do is find something that is questionable, find evidence of something questionable and post what you find.

Posting a youtube video with nothing but a random guy from a shack saying I've made a lightsaber, isn't a valid form of evidence.

Belief without proof is religion.

(2)what gives you the right to criticise someone else's viewpoint? Are you the ats judge? Even moderators pretend to be neutral and drop the hammer sparingly.

What gives you the right to deliberately mislead people who are weak minded? Twisting them into thinking the most wildest of claims?

What gives you the right to steer a CONSPIRACY website into a Fringe/lunatic website?

(3) Most conspiracy theorists do present evidence, although not necessarily proof to some/many, only to have it ignored or used against them

Some of them do, but when people post "proof that nasa is covering up the norway lights" and then posts a video of nasa editing a sunflare video and ancient pictures, i do not in a single second consider that is proof. But the problems starts with the title thread, people will read "Proof" and go "finally proof of xyz" and read the post as its a proven fact, but its not.

(5)If you don't like the site then find a different one.

I could also say the same thing to all the people who thinking they should be believed by everyone without anything to back them up then some guy on youtube.

There is absolutely no reason to join a thread and *argue for the sake of arguing* pages upon pages at a time. At the very least it is a sign of immaturity and at worse it speaks of dishonest intentions. Please just leave us "loonies" alone AND GET A LIFE!

There is no need to get insultive, if your saying i'm arguing to act immature, then surely lowering the tone of the entire discussion to name calling is the most childish thing anyone can do?

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


1. Presenting of orthodox opinions is perfectly fine. It's when they're presented as fact that we have a problem. The site's line is 'deny ignorance', and yet if we don't say anything, we're encouraging it.

2. If someone's opinion is not based in fact, or arrived at by critical thinking, then that should be brought up, as a service to the person holding the opinion at least. Again, we have to deny ignorance, not foster it.

3. No, they don't. I've yet to see a conspiracy theory of any kind discussed on ATS that actually had any basis in real life. Not one. If you want to show me one, please go ahead. I'll be right here.

4. Nope - if anyone participates on ATS, they have a moral duty to keep the signal-to-noise ratio on the site as great as possible, otherwise the site will degrade into separate chatrooms where people are free to make up any reality they want. It will cease being Above Top Secret, but Above Top Sanity.

5. Why? The site promises critical analysis of evidence and claims. Why should people just give in to the fruitcakes and let them run riot, claiming chemtrails and the such are real? If people can't stand having their hypotheses criticised, they should keep them to themselves. Nothing is learned by shielding a hypothesis from critical analysis.

Well, I'm going to post this same exact response on the numerous threads that have come up the last couple of days regarding the integrity of ATS.

These are some ideas that I think if the mindful, considerate, and intelligent ATSers adhere to, we can really restore ATS to what it once was. They are:

1. Preview your post before you hit reply. This will give you the opportunity to see your post more from the perspective of a reader other than you. I've refrained from posting a number of responses after I have done this. (It also gives you a chance to make note of typing errors).

2. Just plain DON'T reply to someone who is being belligerent. If someone is being an arse in their response by calling people names, being disrespectful, rude, LOUD--in other words "Hey! Look at me! Look at me! I need attention and to take out my anger on others!"--there's really no need to respond AT ALL. If the person wants attention that bad and realizes that no one is giving them the time of day because of their approach I guarantee you they will rethink that approach and start being more respectful.

I hate to sound like Dr. Phil but, we teach people how to treat us. Don't teach these people that they will get attention by being rude and crass. Teach them that they will get attention if they are courteous and thoughtful. People come to ATS to "join in" not be "left out". They will most definitely change their tune if they are being left out because of their demeanor.

3. Regardless of who your replying to, if you clicked on the "Reply" button with extra oomph and fervor because you were just so angry about something the person you are replying to said, maybe you either shouldn't reply at all, or just wait a little bit until you calm down. Or, make a concerted effort to NOT let that anger come across in your post. If you do reply out of anger and let it come across in your post, you're almost guaranteeing that a slew of angry posts and thread derailment will happen. Others will start joining in the very heated debate and the cool headed people and those who have intelligent content to add will most likely move onto another thread thereby leaving the thread an empty shell.

One thing I find myself doing is constructing an angry response. It turns out lengthy and when I click "Preview" and read it, then realize just how irrational I sound, even though I decide NOT to post it, it really does feel good to at least get it out. Just think of it as saying all you need to say in a reply you didn't post.

4. To be extremely cliche: Always ask yourself as your partaking in a thread discussion if you want to be part of the problem (the reason for the degradation of ATS) of part of the solution (the reason that ATS is restored to what it once was).

***********************

These suggestions apply to responses to a particular person. Not to the topic. Angry posts about a topic are understandable--such as if the topic is about a cover up, controversy, etc. However, responding to the OP or anyone else out of anger because they don't agree with you should be avoided.

I REALLY think that if the more respectful and intelligent members (or at least those who want to be viewed as such) adhere to these suggestions, the integrity of ATS will be restored.

I think the fact that ATS is becoming more mainstream (as far as the net goes) is really attracting a lot more people and unwanted attention from various factions/agencies. We can't give these people a leg to stand on.

We can't complain about what has happened to ATS if we don't all make an strong effort to BE THE EXAMPLE.

reply to post by captiva


Jesus can't you see its threads like these thats splitting people apart and ruining ATS?

If you don't like the thread/post, dont read it, use the ignore button.

Stop moaning and unsubscribe if your not happy.

Im sick to death of these threads.