reply to post by captiva
I agree with you. Lately a lot of members just want to tear chunks out of each other and disagree.
There is a lot of arrogance in some members who seem to think they have all the answers and refuse to acknowledge other people's opinions.
I've only ever set one person to ignore and then afterwards. took them off it, as i realised i had put them on ignore just because i disagreed with
them. It seemed a bit childish and petty of me.
What is wrong with the ATS membership right now ? !!, page 1
privacy
reply posted on 12-12-2009 @ 04:26 PM by andy1033
reply to post by captiva
Yep alot of rudeness lately. Considering this is one of the most open boards on the net, it has had alot of this debunkers stuff lately.
But we can all ignore the posts we choose.
Yep alot of rudeness lately. Considering this is one of the most open boards on the net, it has had alot of this debunkers stuff lately.
But we can all ignore the posts we choose.
reply posted on 12-12-2009 @ 04:29 PM by captiva
reply to post by LiveForever8
I rest my case. Your reply was as predictable as my thread. There must surely have been something better you could have done with the seconds it took you to reply. Whether you agree with my point or not would have sufficed.
Respects
I rest my case. Your reply was as predictable as my thread. There must surely have been something better you could have done with the seconds it took you to reply. Whether you agree with my point or not would have sufficed.
Respects
reply posted on 12-12-2009 @ 04:59 PM by davesidious
We, as a community, can't treat people who are participating in actual, proper research, and those who are phrasing their own opinions as immutable
fact, the same. It says 'deny ignorance', and yet if we entertain people banging on about chemtrails or whether the spiral was some kind of alien
phenomenon, we are not denying ignorance but encouraging it. I don't know why people think that just because we're talking about conspiracy
theories that the scientific method is somehow fine to be ignored - it isn't. In fact, it's more important here than anywhere else, as the topics
we deal with are deathly important. If folks can't back up their assertions with hard facts, then they have no right to clog up this board with
their nonsense, lowering the signal-to-noise ratio in the process, and making it harder for folks who are prepared to admit they're wrong, and who
are desperately trying to learn.
I remember back when John Titor's story first appeared. The level of investigation was fantastic. The believers kept on dragging out their 'oh but he's from the future!!11!' stuff, and those who knew better showed, repeatedly, using all kinds of accurate, scientific analysis, how their claims were complete bunk. That's the ATS I love - real, honest work to get to the bottom of things, not to prop up people's irrational fantasies.
As Carl Sagan said - 'Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence'. It seems on ATS, for a large number of people, that they think they don't need any evidence at all. That's horrific. If that is allowed to become the norm, then no one will learn a thing on ATS. It'll just be a throng of people shouting their fantasies at each other, with ignorance being the only winner.
People have to be able to admit they're wrong, and to have evidence bought to light that shows their pet hypotheses are incorrect and stop believing in them, otherwise this board will stagnate, and eventually die.
We have too many people like this on this board. We need clear, rational thought, or we might as well give up.
I remember back when John Titor's story first appeared. The level of investigation was fantastic. The believers kept on dragging out their 'oh but he's from the future!!11!' stuff, and those who knew better showed, repeatedly, using all kinds of accurate, scientific analysis, how their claims were complete bunk. That's the ATS I love - real, honest work to get to the bottom of things, not to prop up people's irrational fantasies.
As Carl Sagan said - 'Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence'. It seems on ATS, for a large number of people, that they think they don't need any evidence at all. That's horrific. If that is allowed to become the norm, then no one will learn a thing on ATS. It'll just be a throng of people shouting their fantasies at each other, with ignorance being the only winner.
People have to be able to admit they're wrong, and to have evidence bought to light that shows their pet hypotheses are incorrect and stop believing in them, otherwise this board will stagnate, and eventually die.
We have too many people like this on this board. We need clear, rational thought, or we might as well give up.
reply posted on 12-12-2009 @ 04:59 PM by captiva
reply to post by andy1033
Yes I agree we can just hit " Ignore". What is your opinion on the theory that an increase in the impolite behaviour , especially by those who seem to have joined just to be rude, could/should be used as a marker to suggest that some of the threads are hitting close to home regarding the outcomes and analysis of the posters.?
Respects
Yes I agree we can just hit " Ignore". What is your opinion on the theory that an increase in the impolite behaviour , especially by those who seem to have joined just to be rude, could/should be used as a marker to suggest that some of the threads are hitting close to home regarding the outcomes and analysis of the posters.?
Respects
reply posted on 12-12-2009 @ 05:11 PM by captiva
reply to post by davesidious
I agree with your comments totally, but would also it bring to your attention that we are living in an age where I believe so many new concepts will be noted by not only people like us who seek the truth, but also by " Jo Public". We wont have any more evidence to support a theory than he will because it will be more advanced or new than we can contemplate. In these instances people will believe their eyes. That does not make them lesser than us.
My point is, everyone deserves to be heard and an explanation given and evidenced as to why they are wrong in their thinking. They dont deserve rudeness or a clever " Put down".
After all, can those who say "missile" prove their case without doubt?... does that make them right? Occams Razor can be a pair of glasses with opaque lenses at times. That is something we tend to overlook sometimes.
Respects
I agree with your comments totally, but would also it bring to your attention that we are living in an age where I believe so many new concepts will be noted by not only people like us who seek the truth, but also by " Jo Public". We wont have any more evidence to support a theory than he will because it will be more advanced or new than we can contemplate. In these instances people will believe their eyes. That does not make them lesser than us.
My point is, everyone deserves to be heard and an explanation given and evidenced as to why they are wrong in their thinking. They dont deserve rudeness or a clever " Put down".
After all, can those who say "missile" prove their case without doubt?... does that make them right? Occams Razor can be a pair of glasses with opaque lenses at times. That is something we tend to overlook sometimes.
Respects
reply posted on 12-12-2009 @ 05:12 PM by Kram09
reply to post by davesidious
A good example to illustrate your point, is the recent thread where someone claimed to be from one of the "bloodlines." The person gave no evidence to back up his claim or give us reason to believe him, yet everyone lapped up what he was saying as if it was the gospel. It was embarrassing to be honest.
A good example to illustrate your point, is the recent thread where someone claimed to be from one of the "bloodlines." The person gave no evidence to back up his claim or give us reason to believe him, yet everyone lapped up what he was saying as if it was the gospel. It was embarrassing to be honest.
reply posted on 12-12-2009 @ 05:19 PM by davesidious
reply to post by captiva
Believing their eyes actually makes someone irrational, as the human nervous system is notoriously inaccurate. That's why scientists use instruments to measure instead of just estimating using their senses. Eye witness accounts are anecdotal evidence, which is not even scientific in nature. Scientists don't believe their eyes - they believe the outcomes of multiple experiments. That's the only way to be sure, and we should tolerate no less here. Sure it's harder, but it's hard for a reason - research isn't easy. If it is, it's not research.
If someone has learned some truth, they have a duty to get enough information together to prove it to someone else before spraying it all over ATS. Otherwise they are indistinguishable from someone who's making things up, and that clearly isn't going to help anyone.
So, if someone says "I know this is true because I saw it", everyone has the right to reply "no one will believe you because you haven't even bothered to prove it to yourself before you expect others to believe you".
We have to treat these subjects like scientists treat science - with respect only for the method by which we learn. If we ditch the method, we will never know if what we've "learned" is true or not. We didn't get where we are, as a species, by guessing and making stuff up. We got here by using the scientific method to ensure we actually learn.
reply to post by Kram09
Exactly - what happened? Loads of people's time was wasted, a few people became less informed, and nothing was learned. That is what ATS has to stay away from otherwise it will die.
Believing their eyes actually makes someone irrational, as the human nervous system is notoriously inaccurate. That's why scientists use instruments to measure instead of just estimating using their senses. Eye witness accounts are anecdotal evidence, which is not even scientific in nature. Scientists don't believe their eyes - they believe the outcomes of multiple experiments. That's the only way to be sure, and we should tolerate no less here. Sure it's harder, but it's hard for a reason - research isn't easy. If it is, it's not research.
If someone has learned some truth, they have a duty to get enough information together to prove it to someone else before spraying it all over ATS. Otherwise they are indistinguishable from someone who's making things up, and that clearly isn't going to help anyone.
So, if someone says "I know this is true because I saw it", everyone has the right to reply "no one will believe you because you haven't even bothered to prove it to yourself before you expect others to believe you".
We have to treat these subjects like scientists treat science - with respect only for the method by which we learn. If we ditch the method, we will never know if what we've "learned" is true or not. We didn't get where we are, as a species, by guessing and making stuff up. We got here by using the scientific method to ensure we actually learn.
reply to post by Kram09
Exactly - what happened? Loads of people's time was wasted, a few people became less informed, and nothing was learned. That is what ATS has to stay away from otherwise it will die.
reply posted on 12-12-2009 @ 05:32 PM by captiva
Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by captiva
So, if someone says "I know this is true because I saw it", everyone has the right to reply "no one will believe you because you haven't even bothered to prove it to yourself before you expect others to believe you".
reply to post by Kram09
Exactly - what happened? Loads of people's time was wasted, a few people became less informed, and nothing was learned. That is what ATS has to stay away from otherwise it will die.
And again I agree and your methodology and evidence gathering priority is paramount in ATS.
My point is....... There is no room for someone posting a flag with BS on it as a reply to someone, nor is saying someone is talking rubbish, nor is telling someone to go relight their bong. None of these replies can do any favours to ATS. Im sure you will agree.
Respects
reply posted on 12-12-2009 @ 05:42 PM by captiva
reply to post by blupblup
There is absolutly nothing wrong with giving yourself a pat on the back, well done
Respects
There is absolutly nothing wrong with giving yourself a pat on the back, well done
Respects
reply posted on 12-12-2009 @ 05:47 PM by davesidious
reply to post by captiva
Well, I do agree with you nearly 100%. There is time for that, but not necessarily as harshly as that. If someone is posting demonstrable untruths in a way that will most likely lead others towards ignorance, they need to be dealt with. We do have to actively deny ignorance, and that means actively denying the ignorant who demand to spread their nonsense across the board.
For example, if someone keeps posting saying that evolution is false, I think a massive flag saying BS should be more than welcome. The content of their post is pure BS in its purest form, yet can pervert the knowledge of others who think it's the truth. If we can star and flag a post, we should be able to do the opposite - to bury the nonsense. We need to ensure a culture of "every point is equal" never takes hold, as that simply is incompatible with learning.
So I say yes - call out BS for what it is, wherever it is posted, as many times as necessary.
Maybe then we can get the paranormal research board back to being about paranormal research, instead of people saying they have ghosts or can cast spells or some other such nonsense. It's intellectually repugnant to allow that to exist here.
Well, I do agree with you nearly 100%. There is time for that, but not necessarily as harshly as that. If someone is posting demonstrable untruths in a way that will most likely lead others towards ignorance, they need to be dealt with. We do have to actively deny ignorance, and that means actively denying the ignorant who demand to spread their nonsense across the board.
For example, if someone keeps posting saying that evolution is false, I think a massive flag saying BS should be more than welcome. The content of their post is pure BS in its purest form, yet can pervert the knowledge of others who think it's the truth. If we can star and flag a post, we should be able to do the opposite - to bury the nonsense. We need to ensure a culture of "every point is equal" never takes hold, as that simply is incompatible with learning.
So I say yes - call out BS for what it is, wherever it is posted, as many times as necessary.
Maybe then we can get the paranormal research board back to being about paranormal research, instead of people saying they have ghosts or can cast spells or some other such nonsense. It's intellectually repugnant to allow that to exist here.
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