We are all want to be murders and rapist:

Sometimes I think maybe we would be better if there was just one world order, everyone on the same page no more wars or violence other than a few disagreements. But than I think how boring that would be, and I doubt I would want to live like that. But than again is that not what the Christians believe in the 1000 years of peace on earth with the coming of the lord as he sets up heaven on earth. I could use the same example with most religions.

Than let say this happens everyone the same no need for any wrong doing, than what will happen to our mind prisons of wanting to be free from all.
I know I just confused the hell out of most, it was just something to ponder, it popped into my head what can I say.

And no I am not a one world order person not at all, I love my country and the constitution we are suppose to live under. Just to clarify.

reply to post by argentus


Not sure about the mad max thing I am not familiar with your reference sorry.

But yes the rest you are correct, when we let our guard down and others begin to act in a not so normal manor, events like this happens all over the world, look at the soccer game in Germany I think, but the point is the same. It is referred to as gang mentality, where a regular person if not in the middle of the gang or encourage at the moment of the event would not normally act in such a manor.

So you see there are many people out there that quickly become a undesirable to society. Even a local ball game how many parents are forced now to sign a contract in order to attend a game there kids are playing. What a great impression we make on our children when we act like the animals we are because a ref made a bad call, or a coach didn’t play your kid that day.

Originally posted by drmeola
reply to post by Kailassa

 

Oh I am not trying to judge anyone sorry if you got that impression. And yes women make up next to nothing of violent crimes in the country. And let me show you where I get my view from on taking women for sex from. This is what is found in the animal kingdom; of course the attraction is not of beauty there but of the female’s ability to survive. Lions and lioness are the best example of survival of the fittest, but will not go into a description of my mean endless I need too. I hope that helps. If not I will elaborate more on natural instincts. Thank you for your post.
And we in my opinion have many similarities to the wild kingdom. But again I will digress and allow others to comment

My comment about women was that they are not inclined to commit rape. . .

You really believe that animals commonly rape?
As you mentioned lions, let's check out their behaviour:

Mating Ritual

The mating ritual in lions involves a lot of physical rubbing and presenting leading up to the copulation event. Female lionesses engage in a lot of headrubbing towards male lions and then begin their sexual displays. Lionesses will lift their hindleg with their front paw or roll onto their back and bite at their hindlegs. Similarly, females will “present” by lowering their forebody and arching their back and hindlegs. The females do the presentation, and the males choose the estrous female they want. However, the choice pretty much means whichever presenting estrous female they run into first.

Lion mating is notoriously quick, repetitive, and unsuccessful. The male usually initiates copulation with a mating snarl which is intended to excite the female. If the female does not respond, the male lion may lick her neck, back, or shoulders until she complies. The enticed female will then crouch down, and the male lion will quickly mount her. The male lion during copulation will usually bite the neck of the female and let out a loud roar during and immediately after ejaculation. The male will then move away from the female as the female rolls on her back and stretches her legs (Rudnai 1973). The mating activity generally lasts for about four days. Copulation lasts about 30-70 seconds and is repeated once every 25 minutes during the four day period (Viljoen 2003).

Does that sound like rape to you?

Mating rituals in animals are the norm, not the exception.
Many animals and birds have long-term, even life-long relationships with mating partners.
I've even known a 6' tiger snake to act distraught when a similar looking snake was run over, and it would not leave the other's body. So it had to be killed too, as children used that road to walk to school. On inspection we found that, sure enough, one was female and the other male.

The urge to rape does not show a person is behaving like an animal. There are very few species in which rape is a common activity.

However if it's really such a fond ambition, perhaps you'd like to reincarnate as a flatworm:

Flatworms

Like snails, flatworms are hermaphrodites. And as luck would have it, they too seem to have been reading up on perverse practices on the internet before they got around to mating.

Since deciding who gets to be the man when you're both hermaphrodites is hard, the worms settle things the way all horrible fights at the bike rack after school were settled--a sword fight. And by that we mean penis fencing. And no, we didn't make that up, scientists really call it that, probably without snickering.

The two worms whip out wood and battle each other until one poor bastard gets jammed where the sun don't shine and officially becomes the woman. So it's sort of like prison in a way.

Woman don't need to rape.

As men, we know that if any girl lays on her back and asked for it no matter how fat or ugly, we will be there. They can call up just about any guy, and get sex like that.

Women only rape when they become seriously obsessed with somebody.

Anyways, this conversation is kind of weird, I don't even know why it's posted in here instead of below top secret.

I think the OP might be having some dark thoughts or something.

reply to post by drmeola


Sorry about that. I made an incorrect assumption that Mad Max, followed by The Road Warrior, followed by Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome were somewhat universal. Easy to see how they might not be commonly known.

The movies center around a post-apocalyptic Australia, and all the changes in societal norms, human animals, etc. All ties to life as we know it are gone.

I think you touch upon something important, and that is human perception that we are all SO far away from the Savannah. I think we socialize ourselves into certain ideals, however underneath the interpersonal dramas sometimes lurk raw instinct. It's part of who we are as a species.

People still compete for food. People still starve and commit horrible acts upon each other soley for the conception of survival of the strongest, the most exploitive, sometimes the most violent. In the absence of a purely survival situation, I think people shine much brighter. ........ and then we begin to think that we're still evolving as a species toward a greater understanding.... and we see a mob, or a mass killing, or delve into the realities of war and opression and human calamity and perhaps realize that we might be, for the most part, creatures with technology that has outpaced our awareness and understanding.

That's my view, anyway. I know what I'm capable of. I know what my limits are. I'm not willing to sacrifice my humanity for survival.

reply to post by Kailassa


Good post thank you bad example on my point here is how in the pride I get to a rape, when a young lion comes into his puberty he will challenge the mail in charge of that pride. He will run him off or kill him, then he immediately kills any cubs in the pride and runs off any other mails. The female then goes into menstruation to replenish the pride. Either they accept this new male as he is obviously proven himself to be a better protector then the previous one. Or they put themselves in harms way. So it is a form of forced rape, I will protect you, you will kill food to feed me, I am the master and eat first or I will leave you in harms way, until a young more stronger male shows up. I hope that better clarifies what I mean by rape in the wild kingdom.




p.s. please forgive my incorrect word use of mail instead of male fast typing to keep up with the thought lol

[edit on 9-12-2009 by drmeola]

reply to post by argentus


Thank you, yes I agree with you and I do recall seeing some of the mad max movies they were just so long ago I had forgot the plot. Excellent explanation.

As a kid I would laugh on the weekends at my mom, we all need some sort of release, that is why when a group gets together it takes very little to get them excitable and start doing things that normally they would not do. As I have pointed out at ball games and parades as others have pointed out. My moms and others I see do this including my wife, and now my kids are doing it and there not even sure why they are doing it. So I laugh at that as well and tell them there all crazy.

Any way like my mom and my wife and children, have you sat back and just watched other people watch a ball game on television either in a club or even your own living room. These people are going to give themselves a heart attack, the more excited they get the louder they become. I love sitting back as my wife would stand up and yell things like get him you bastards don’t you know how to play. Or go go go no you idiot how could step out of bounds. And the list goes on. This is a great adrenalin rush and a honest release of pent up energy. It is when it gets to the mob mentality that the punches start to fly and seats and what ever else people can grab in the heat of the moment. And then we become uncivilized. This is stupid is it not to get so worked up about a game that you lose total control of yourself and these otherwise normal people can easily commit murder.

What are your thoughts on this?

p.s. we all walk a fine line between norm and animal, and anyone and I mean any one can at any time in the right circumstances can become violent. Just look at what neighbors say when interviewed about another neighbor who committed a crime of violence. No not him I new him for years the nicest guy I ever met he couldn’t have done that. I would have never have expect him of such a thing and so on.

[edit on 9-12-2009 by drmeola]

Ask yourself how many times have you said “I am going to kill you” to someone? Usually joking.

I never made or going to make such kind of jokes, they are low stupid jokes, I like to call them toilet jokes , they go down the toilet fast and are regarded to the level of a toilet that you take a dump into.

How many times have you thought to yourself, man I want that, in reference to a hot chick? Or a guy?
And if there was no law against doing so, would you not take advantage of that?
What is your favorite kind of torcher?
Do you watch horror films? And silently think I wonder what that would be like?

Not everyone likes this kind of stuff, it's easy to understand that there are different individuals. I for one would not enjoy it, if I'm with a hot chick and she does not like me but she gets it on with me for some other reason. I feel like it was not worth it and I could not enjoy it. What is the point in forcing someone if she or he willl not give you freely what you want.

Would you not be upset that you got something that the other person offered, not because she or he likes you but because you forced that person or that person had some intrest other than your self.Hot chicks are hot, but hotter than that is to get her to invest true intrest in you as in likeing you, there is no other hotter stuff than that.

To this day the same holds true the market place is full of kill kill kill, blood and gore and we have, one become addicted to it, two starts enacting by playing with your friends fake sword fighting for instance.

It's the fault of the consumer and his nature, if you can't find true values to live by then you are at fault for failing. True values come hard with compromises and sacrifices so you can shape up your character and become something definable. At that point you know what you are, you know you are of value and you start apreciating your self more.
Good things are hard to come by, the easy stuff is blowing stuff up, creation is always harder to accive. I would rather pass something as good as it seems than have it because somehow the events infuenced the outcome, because I have cash or I aplly force. Trust me you do not get anything out of it, it's like going to a bunch of hookers. If hookers really like you than that is to a level good but don't count on it.

I rather not have it at all than to have it and to be a dumb animal and die as a dumb clown.







[edit on 9-12-2009 by pepsi78]

reply to post by drmeola


Thank you for your compliments

I have recently started to come to terms about a lot about me, challenging my personality and life. I have found I have lived a very suppressed life, I have constantly have had to suppress my thoughts, speech, emotions or basically expression because I am afraid of what the "other" would think. But I am not sure who this other is. Is it people? Mainly yes, but at others time it is my own superego. I have been suppressing since I was very young over and over again.

Suppression is a horrible way of living your life and I am really starting to understand this now. It really is a mental prison and it is suffocating. If you thought it, you thought it. It's real. If you felt it, you felt it. It is real. What good is suppresion of something that is real? It's as good as tidying your bedroom by shoving everything under the bed.

But does this mean we give in to our thoughts and feelings? Suppose you are talking to me and you are boring me to tears, do I openly state it, "I am bored by you, shut up" or do I paitently listen? Suppose you are attracted to somebody who is a friend, and you don't want to lose your friendship, do you openly let it out or do you keep silent. You see there is no sense in always letting out your thoughts and feelings all the time either. Especially if your thoughts ands feeling is to kill and rape people.
Herein lies the paradox or the contradiction of life. This is the part where you realise there are no clear and cut answers to such problems in life. This is when you truly get confused and actually feel the pain of the dissoance. I know I feel it all the time and at one stage in my life it was at fever pitch.

The truth about life is, which I have realised through the traumas I have gone through and still going through, is that life = suffering. And hence why the wise philosopher-sages, especially of the East like the Buddha, Krishna declare this is as one of the ultimate truths about life. It is suffering because it is so difficult, so paradoxical, so contradictory. And realising this truth about life is an important stage in liberating oneself from suffering.

The "answer" is neither here or there, it is neither suppresion or expression. I feel like leaving you with that, but I don't think it would be ethical to leave you hanging like that on life = suffering note. Yes, it is suffering, but why is it suffering? What suffers? Why is there a part of us that wants to destroy everything? Buddha's answer is probably the best answer, and this is not surprising because Buddha came to terms with suffering and investigated suffering to its logical end. It is suffering because it knows none of this is real. It knows it is a prison and it wants to break this prison, destroy everything and return to zero. The natural state where there isn't anything. However, this is not a literal prison, it's your own mind which is full of so much junk which make yo the bars of your prison. Empty your mind of all of this junk and you can return to your natural state and end the suffering.

I think that is a better note to end this post on.

[edit on 9-12-2009 by Indigo_Child]

Hmmmm ... I don't think people are naturally violent, but I think people are naturally selfish and naturally vengeful.

MANY people would murder to avenge a loved one, and some people would murder to say get a million bucks.

I don't even think most murderers like murder, unless we're talking about serial killers, murder is either an act of rage or a means to an end.

I disagree I would never rape a woman regardless of the situation and have never had any similar urges during my 30 years on this green earth. The murder thing is different as I have during moments of extreme anger really thought I could kill someone. Defending my brother during one fight I really think I would not have let the person up if I was not dragged off them. Thats what happens when douche bags pull a knife, they get what is coming to them So I agree with the murder part, we are all just shaved apes and a switch can be flicked and the red mist decends and we could all easily find blood on our hands. Rape no, you have to be messed up in the head to think of such things.

If i want it, i'll take it, if you stand in my way i will kill you.

Thats a mindset that we have evolved from, to become the caring compassionate, emotive society we are today. Obvousily there will be people that revert to the baser side of there nature, but thats what it is natural, it perfectly natural to have feelings of envy, rage, desire and its normally these that prompt a weaker minded person to act on them and kill.

Rape on the other hand is not a natural act, if you notice in the natural world other animals do not commit rape, a male has to earn the right to mate through posteur and display and once found worthy then the female allows the mating to take place, therefore it would be easy to see a rapist as substandard, someone that knows they could not impress a female through there own shortcomings be it physical or mental, its known that rapists desire the feeling of control over there victims and again the fact that they choose an invariably weaker person to control only emphasis there feeling of low worth.

Child molestation again is not a natural act, in nature no sex takes place until a child becomes sexualy receptive, with humans this is usually around the age of 12 years old, but being the emotive people that we are we realise that a 12 year old is not old enough to realise the implications and responsibilities that having sex can result in, so we enforce age limits to the act that normal law abiding people adhere to, there are those that ignore these laws and these are the people that incite feelings of rage in me and i would gladly kill.

I'll admit I havent read all the posts, just the OP's and a couple along the way.

Having thoughts of killing, murder, rape and torture I think is the prim-evil instinct in us coming out. Its our mind going back to our "cave-man" instinct.

In this world we live in, there are laws everywhere saying e cannot do this or that......there are in this day and age consequences for all things that society decides is not according to its rules.

I myself have many times thought of killing someone, many people, many ways, sometimes the forms of torture that occupy my mind scare me when I analyse them later.....

the point is, some of us have these thoughts regularly......that does not mean we are bad people. Those of us that do and are strong understand them and control them and know the consequences of ever acting them out.

Unfortunately in our society there are those that dont understand this and do act them out.

Let me explain if I can....I'll try anyway.....

There are 2 types of people that have these inclinations......

The first type is what society would call the "nutcase"...they would act upon these thoughts and ideas at the first sign of danger or discomfort.

The second type you wouldn't know who they are, they might be your neighbour, your brother or your spouse.....they hide their inner thoughts and feelings because they know the ones they love would be hurt if they ever knew.

This second type of person 99.9% of the time would be normal like everyone else and never act upon it, just think about it constantly....this type although safe generally is dangerous.

Why?

Because although they are smart enough to understand the consequences of their possible actions they hold themselves back....for fear of loosing all they have, all they love and all they might have.

BUT.....

pushed into a corner and something "triggers" them to act upon these primal instincts, then stand back for whatever fantasies or thoughts they ever had, they act upon in a moment of madness......

Just my 2 cents....

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Agreed, i have those thoughts from time to time, but would never do it the only one i would consider is killing someone but thats only in dire circumstances such as fight for survival or to defend my family.

Everyone and i mean EVERYONE has their own little fantasy or "perverted" thoughts.

Either you are all little teenagers, or most of you are a very sad indictment of not only the human race, but the male race. I make the distinction because the male of the species is quite clearly of a different mindset and totally different spiritual development than the females and should be distinguished as such.

No more of this nonsense about women being equal. Women are so far advanced of most males that you could never be equal in a thousand lifetimes. You are still in the gutter and on the floor in terms of spiritual development.

Listen to yourselves and the lack of any respect you have not only for yourselves, but the females. How on earth have you gone through life on a base level which makes you speak of a woman ‘giving it to me for free..’ and the rather basic and lower than animalistic realisation that ‘if a woman laid on her back any male would take her.’ Have any of you ever contemplated the act of sexual union as anything other than a selfish act of animalistic self gratification. Have any of you ever thought that it might be about giving to, and pleasing the other person? Have any of you ever progressed past the first grade? You have not evolved from a primitive mindset and expression at all.

And then lots of you would speak about fatherhood as your right, and how nobly you take your responsibilities, what an achievement it is to have brought life into the world, and how gays and others who can’t procreate are the lowest of the low…AND YET all that has occurred in the majority of cases is a totally random and accidental impregnation in an act of animalistic self gratification, with utter contempt for the women ‘who has given it‘ to you.

No wonder the world is in the state it is in, as the male species has never evolved. Most of you admit you are animals and you are right. Most of you admit your spiritual development has never even begun…and you are right.

You see there is no sense in always letting out your thoughts and feelings all the time either. Especially if your thoughts ands feeling is to kill and rape people.

Some of you seriously need some psychiatric help.

If you are a good person…you do NOT think of killing except in a situation where your life or someone else’s life is gravely threatened…you do not fantasise about it because you simply could not. Your mind would not work that way.

If any of you think of rape then you are sick little people who need help. Rape is about control, so you seriously need to be taken from society until you have evolved a little bit further. If you were a good person….the thought would NEVER even cross your mind…and if it did because of something that imprinted the thought, like TV, then that thought certainly would never stay there.

WOW so many great post this morning I will do my best to address each of them but I will say great job, all most all of you have well thought out your comments, most of us seem to be stuck on the rape thing. Ok the original question was if there were no consequences would you? But maybe I word that a little different but that was the jest of the question.

Ok we all agree rape in itself is a control issue has never been about sex, ask any rapist and they will tell you.

And to elaborate on sex with any one and you still wouldn’t do it because of emotional attachment is missing, ok I agree it is sex and it is about pleasuring the other person. All agree. Ok so lets move on for a minute, think of a star, actress, movie star, music star, you hottest fantasy we all have them. Now say she is naked willing and ready do you not jump all over it. Or because you may think like I do the fantasy is always better than a dead lay. Yes your first thought would be man I am all over that. But in reality without the emotional tie you might as well go get a hooker.

As one poster has alluded to, and I agree.

We all seem to be in agreement that yes when faced with a life threat of ourselves or a loved one, no problem in defending and possible killing.

Some have also made a point that we are down playing women. I like to say up front that is not what we are trying to do, woman commit next to nothing when in comes to such crimes as rape and murder. And yes they have evolved many beyond the male species, they have entered the work force gotten educated and have become a valued part of society beyond the bare foot and pregnant error.

With that being said, I will let you in on a little secret about women. First they didn’t want to go into the work place they were forced during the war into factories to make arms for the men as they were off fighting, as well as other jobs. There are women out there who do not wish to have families and rather focus on a career but this is not the norm. And there are others that would love to have a family and stay at home to raise them never having to work, most have to do both, family and work, but this is usually not a choice it is a necessity. let me also add homemaker is the hardest job there is, cooking and cleaning maintaining the house hold is a big job if done right.

I will address just one scenario, and this is not addressed to all women not in the least just a few, and I think if I was a woman this is the kind of woman I think I would want to be. If I wasn’t interest in a family and having kids of my own. I would love to be a well kept women, as in the other woman, get me a rich married man who puts me up in a penthouse takes care of all the bills only see him when he is looking to get lucky, the rest of the time is mine to go shopping with his credit cards, partying with the girls. And emotional sex, with my hot guy boyfriend.

Women will love the bad boy, but will marry the secure guy. That is natural.

In the wild like with the lions, I beet up your last protector so now I am the boss.

But in our world, we beet up a guy his girl will run to him, not to the stronger of the two. This is true in almost all cases. But let’s say I am wealthy and in today’s economy I like your wife and want to make her mine, she may love you to death but I can give her all her dreams. How many of you think the woman would stay with there man? Especially if the rich guy was hot. She would keep you on the side for great emotional sex, that is if the rich guy isn’t the great lover on the planet to her any way.

This goes back to the bad boy versus the stable guy. She may love you with all her heart, but she needs someone she can count on, some one to in all realty is going to keep her in a manor that she would want to be kept.

The ones who stay with the bad guy are usually the ones with the lowest esteem of themselves.

I will leave it here for now and try and start to answer some of your post.
Thank you all for you input.



[edit on 10-12-2009 by drmeola]

reply to post by pepsi78


Hello pepsi78,

Thank you for your post, you have never made such kind of jokes as in murder. Ok let me explain something here, have you ever seen the show scare tactics or even there trailers? The victim 98 out of 100 will say “oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, I am going to kill you.” That is said in a jokingly manor.

The murder we are talking about would be more like, watching the news seeing a report of a young girl assaulted and the first thing you think about is, either they should kill the sonofabitch or man I want to kill the ass.

I know of no honest person who isn’t gay, that has not said if nothing else to himself check that chick out she is hot, and instantly for a split second, and its this split second were are talking about wonder what she is like in the sack.
We are not talking about the actual sex act itself just the mind works of it. And how there is a fine line we all walk.

If you read more of my post and some others you will were a normal person can in a group situation become something other than the norm.

There is no point in forcing as you say, but if everything was different and you could this would mean that they are willing, as it would be a normal acceptance of that society. Not that is now.

We all have values some may have more, even criminals have a code they live by, gangs and murders alike have there own value system. But I do agree with you on your point regarding values.

I enjoyed your post but remember this is in the mind of every living human and we walk close to that line everyday.
Some have more self control than others, but when in a group that self control is about gone.

As an after thought, the whole world and everything in it revolves around sex, if not the population would die and there would be only plants left. Just a thought.

Originally posted by drmeola

And if there was no law against doing so, would you not take advantage of that?

Law is a construct of man, to keep us abiding within the scope of a common moral acceptance.

Morality, is within all of us, so it is moot. Our ability to adhere to our morals however, is not. We all know about people who torture kittens, who have no ability to know why it is wrong. Or who murder thousands of people while smiling, during war.

It is people without the ability to adhere to morals that have created laws.

And started the "Because I can't, neither should you ever be given the choice" mentality that has lead us to the nanny states we live in today.

99% of people will never rape nor kill just because they can. But we are bound by the law which says that because 1% wants to/has no control over that we must all be treated with suspicion.

Sometimes these laws work, but face it - the mindless vermin who rape etc, do not consider the consequences whatsoever. Ever.

reply to post by Indigo_Child


Indigo my friend as again you got me your post is one I will have to think on. And you are welcome.
I would so recommend a book to give you another outlook I like them and they hold a lot of answers.
There paper back around 10 us dollars, compiled by pat rodegast and Judith Stanton called emmanuel’s book one two and three. These are not religion books. But I think you will find them interesting go check them out there at most book stores, give a read to a chapter or two then decide if its something you want to give a more in-depth read, easy reading also, its like a question and answer book very cool.

I would like to add that all people on the outside may not always want to hear the truth but down deep that is exactly what they want. And it is in how you pick your words that make the difference. To use your example of conversation, if that person is not sharing an emotional moment of heart with you and it nothing more than general conversation, you don’t say you bore me, but you could say. “hey can we change the topic I really have no interest in that”

The friend slash lover? Has been pondered since the beginning of time lol. But like I believe in all situations the truth must come out. How many people find out years later the other person felt the same way but had the same fears, and that is what we are talking about fear? You could simple say hey I like you a lot and I love being your friend I will always want to be your friend and will always be here for you, but I was wondering if you would consider me more than a friend and be will to try and go down that road? It first lets them know you are always going to be there no matter what the answer is, and it also gives you the chance to find out you never know they may have thought the same thing. If you don’t ask you will never know.

I have donet this myself and she said to me more as a big brother than a lover and till this day I am still her big bro, I have no regrets in learning the truth of the relationship early on. Or forever I would always wonder if I only? ? ?

It hurt to find out at first, but knowing the boundaries early on made it much easer for me emotionally and was very easy to keep that line in check. I say It worked out great. I hope that helps you some.


[edit on 10-12-2009 by drmeola]