Free Health Care is Awesome!!!

I'm reading this thread, and I'm hearing lots of valid points from individuals "on the outside, looking in" upon the United States' dilemma. But I'm also hearing a certain tone that really concerns me:

"Price of civilization"...Civic duty...trust in government...etc.

This is precisely what horrifies me about the future of the world. Once we believe that we have a price to pay for our continuation as civilized beings. I may be incorrect, but when was the last time in the history of America pre-income tax that we as American citizens were forced to pay into the success and advancement of our country? Seems to me that we are becoming used to the idea that we do not require self-determination, because it is too "expensive" or it is "unreasonable". Personally, I would rather spend more money and have a self-determinant system of health care than a system tailored for the masses and compulsory (Actually, I do not believe in mandatory health care). I'm sure my ideas have flaws, however, and I welcome input.

reply to post by DataWraith


Datawraith, you are quite mistaken. If you fall ill or are injured in the US, regardless of where you are from, you get treated. It is the law.
A fact widley overlooked by people who want to fleece the american taxpayer through national healthcare.
No government plan is going to make medical care cheaper. I work in the industry and am privy to alot of the underwriting process. In my opinion filtering insurance monies through the federal government will neither lower costs nor improve service.

Could someone tell me how being required to purchase health insurance (only for individuals, not small companies) equates to "free health care?"

reply to post by stereovoyaged


Check this out! In 2001 I had a major stroke. AND I'm not fat & don't smoke! ANYWAY, I spent four months in the hospital another four months in the re-hab hosptal, and another 8 months trying to get my balance back & re-learning to walk. Now I'm working again, paying my taxes. I live in Ontario, and my O.H.I.P card covered everything. If I had lived in the United States, I'd have had a medical bankruptcy and be unemployed on the street!

Now that $#@% on TV down in the U.S. saying our Health-Care System is bad, is saying those things because she is getting a nice fat cheque from whomever she's speaking for! What is amazing is that Americans are willing to pay time and time again for wars and the all the stuff the Military Industrial Complex needs, but they balk at having a Universal Healthcare Plan that's available to all Americans. LOL! How brainwashed by TV is that??? LOL!

Communism looks good on paper and so dose big government.

But they both have a big flaw, both are ran by humans and humans are flawed and tend to be defective.

Originally posted by kenochs
I've been a public option guy since the beginning.
So, here's my deal. I am a contractor (that means I'm my own small business and I sell my services to different companies), not by choice but by necessity.

So is my wife, we both work in businesses that just aren't hiring full-time now.

So, we have to get healthcare directly from the insurance companies not through work.

We have two children one aged 2 one aged 4. Neither of us drink, or smoke we gym daily, we ride our bikes to public transport. We're both healthy, no pre-existing conditions, no chronic illnesses (except allergies).

And guess what we pay for health care every month....

drum roll... 1,100 USD. Every freaking month. And that doesn't even account for the occasional antibiotic when we actually get sick, or the cost of doctors visits. So real costs is probably like 1200 a month averaged out. So if we stay completely healthy all year round and never see a doctor it's 1100 a month. Yearly phisical... hundreds... sinus infection trip to the doc.. hundreds... kids yearly checkup hundreds...

It's killing us.... literally killing us. It's like we just got our of college.

And it makes me so mad when people tell me that government run health care is going to be WORSE than this?
I don't know how it gets worse. We're living so close to the edge right now, and we're always worrying about money.

If I could buy into medicare, or get a public option... I'd do it in a heartbeat and while I'm no Democrat, the GOP and the health industries efforts to try and block this makes it a voting issue in 2012, at least for me.






[edit on 9-12-2009 by kenochs]

[edit on 9-12-2009 by kenochs]

Originally posted by OverSword
reply to post by DataWraith

 

Datawraith, you are quite mistaken. If you fall ill or are injured in the US, regardless of where you are from, you get treated. It is the law.
A fact widley overlooked by people who want to fleece the american taxpayer through national healthcare.
No government plan is going to make medical care cheaper. I work in the industry and am privy to alot of the underwriting process. In my opinion filtering insurance monies through the federal government will neither lower costs nor improve service.

www.youtube.com...





You were saying?

Laws are hardly ever followed in this naion.

Originally posted by bugstomper
What is amazing is that Americans are willing to pay time and time again for wars and the all the stuff the Military Industrial Complex needs, but they balk at having a Universal Healthcare Plan that's available to all Americans.

Right on! All the trillions of dollars that are wasted on wars which are based on lies and false-flag government terrorism could provide free health care for every American.

But just try going up against the Bush Crime Family, President "Change We Can Believe In" Obama, the Banksters and the Military-Industrial Complex.


[edit on 9-12-2009 by GoldenFleece]

reply to post by stereovoyaged


So you think it's OK for people who don't contribute to paying the taxes get the same benefits? I see it where I live all day every day. I just love going to work and seeing the same people sitting around collecting welfare and receiving food stamps from our tax dollars and who are perfectly capable of working. It seems that society has accepted this rather well and is now a norm. Why go to work when you can get it for free? You think your Health Care is rather cheap huh? Someone has to pay for it, I'm not against socialized HC but it really needs to be policed a little better. You don't pay you don't eat.

Religious or not this is a good guide.....

Proverbs tells us that a lazy person hates work: “The sluggard's craving will be the death of him, because his hands refuse to work” (21:25); he loves sleep: “As a door turns on its hinges, so a sluggard turns on his bed” (26:14); he gives excuses: “The sluggard says, ‘There is a lion in the road, a fierce lion roaming the streets’” (26:13); he wastes time and energy: “He who is slothful in his work is a brother to him who is a great waster” (18:9 KJV); he believes he is wise, but is a fool: “The sluggard is wiser in his own eyes than seven men who answer discreetly” (26:16).

Proverbs also tells us the end in store for the lazy: A lazy person becomes a servant (or debtor): “Diligent hands will rule, but laziness ends in slave labor” (12:24); his future is bleak: “A sluggard does not plow in season; so at harvest time he looks but finds nothing” (20:4); he may come to poverty: “The soul of the lazy man desires and has nothing; but the soul of the diligent shall be made rich” (13:4 KJV).

Double post oops

[edit on 9-12-2009 by way2slo]

reply to post by die_another_day


That's a terrible video, at least someone picked up the corpse. I guess it's hard to really complain against such care, since dead don't complain much.

I love the idea of free health care. My mother is in terrible shape due to a government accident and the insurance she has barely keeps up with her growing list of problems and bills.

I've got terrible vision and my teeth are breaking, but since I don't have insurance (One of many jobless college students living solely on loan money) outside of the $800 a semester bare minimum for health (no vision or dental on top of no coverage over the summer), I end up with self-applied tooth-care (Temp filling from the local Walmart toothpaste section for example) and terrible glasses from places that accept me without insurance, maybe once a year.

There are a couple different types of Free Medical in America

1. Medicare

2. Medicaid

3. Just don't pay the bill.

It's illegal to refuse someone healthcare in America even if you owe them money. I have a friend that is a refugee from Bosnia. He's been to the same emergency room 6 times and just never pays his bill..... i'm sure his credit score is around 23 though

Originally posted by SweetRevenge
I love the idea of free health care. My mother is in terrible shape due to a government accident and the insurance she has barely keeps up with her growing list of problems and bills.

I've got terrible vision and my teeth are breaking, but since I don't have insurance (One of many jobless college students living solely on loan money) outside of the $800 a semester bare minimum for health (no vision or dental on top of no coverage over the summer), I end up with self-applied tooth-care (Temp filling from the local Walmart toothpaste section for example) and terrible glasses from places that accept me without insurance, maybe once a year.

Just as a point of reference, University of Toronto has a extended health care that includes dental, drugs, and I believe vision care, as part of the benefits covered by 'student fees'. I think that 3 months residency is required for visa students to be covered by provincial health care.

reply to post by FORMe2p00p0n


I know a lot of good people who just don't pay and have long given up on having a decent credit score or ever leaving debt.

Some as young as 20 too.

Edit: Spelling

[edit on 9-12-2009 by SweetRevenge]

Datawraith, you are quite mistaken. If you fall ill or are injured in the US, regardless of where you are from, you get treated. It is the law.
A fact widley overlooked by people who want to fleece the american taxpayer through national healthcare.

So the stories (and film evidence in Michael Moore's "Sicko") are not true? Nobody sticks anyone in a cab and sends 'em off to the poor district when their insurance is found wanting? I'm not a huge Michael Moore fan, but he does have the ability to raise certain good points.

So if you are sick/injured you can walk into any emergency room and be treated the same as everyone else? Don't make me laugh.
The hospitals can smell your insurance card from a mile away.
Who is the first person you see in the emergency room? Is it the doctor/nurse? Or is it the admin who asks a million questions about insurance?
When you tell them you have none, do you get treated at the same speed as those with insurance? Of course not.

I'm not saying that the US government is the bees-knees when it comes to managing things, but it's possible - however remotely - that they could have the people's best interests at heart. The insurance companies definitely do not.

You weigh it up. Do you trust the elected officials who are sworn to look after you, or do you trust the insurance companies who have been bleeding the country dry for decades.....?
Hmmmm.....
Tough choice.

The insurance companies, on the other hand, don't want you dead. That costs them money. They like you healthy and paying. They exist ONLY to take your money. They are a 'for profit' business. Your health is unimportant to them other than what it means to their income.

Many of us do not fear a NHS.

We fear our government, screwing something else up.

Sad, is it not?

We do not have leaders in this country, we have businessmen. While I have nothing against businessmen, they should not be leading our country.

reply to post by stereovoyaged


The current legislation being debated in the US Senate in no way shape or form provides anything even remotely similar to free health care.

Folks are under the impression that if they pass this they will stop paying for insurance and be waltzing into the doc whenever they please and never see a bill.

This is not the case.

See,the only problem here is,you live in Canada,and we live in USA. We are dealing with a completely different set of principals and corrupt politicians.

One of my relatives in China witnessed this at the hospital.

This relative of mine did a cosmetic surgery in China. It was one of those big kinds where they cut flesh off of you.

So anyway, after returning home she couldn't bare the pain from her wounds. She was hospitalized. Yeah, that's what happens when you want to look younger by screwing up your own body.

She did not have a private room (too expensive), so the patients shared a room with few beds in there. While she was recovering, she noticed that there was a young girl laying across from her that was really sick. My relative didn't know what she had, but the deal was this young woman have to have a shot administered to her everyday or else she will die.

This relative of mine stayed in the hospital for a couple of days, during which the young girl was getting her daily shots. I think it was when my relative was getting out, she witnessed something horrible. The young girl's family had run out of money to pay for the service and medicines. They were crying in the room, the mom was kneeling on the floor begging the nurse and the Doctor to give their daughter the shot. No shot was given to that young woman that day.

Now as long as this type of s*** don't happen in U.S., I'm happy.

Medical insurance is really high though. My girlfriend, single, 25 years of age, non-smoking, no medical illness history have to pay $288 a month for her HMO insurance. She had another choice of getting a lower rate PPO coverage, but she had to shell out 7500 as annual deductible and many things weren't covered in that plan.

My HMO offered by my company is about $200.00+. So, paying $200 ~ $300 insurance every month is wrong in many ways. $50 to $80 more, I'm actually financing myself a Beamer every month...

Oh and if I happen to not get sick for a whole year, shouldn't I get some of that premium money back? I'm not asking for all, but ... just a small slice of the big pie? No? Ok fine...