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Free Health Care is Awesome!!!

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posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 11:31 PM
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It's not "Free Healthcare". It's Stolen Healthcare. Nothing is free. Doctors don't work for free. You think you're going to get something good out of this? When was the last time anything government ran a success? Even the # that you would expect a child to get right they stuff up.

You bring upon yourselves tyranny and ruin. There won't be any medical professionals worth a salt shaker by the time you get to retirement -- even if that's only 10 years from now. Enjoy your death you communist fools.




posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 11:42 PM
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Taxation without representation is theft.

We have no representation.

If the government arbitrarily adjusts the amount of money they take from your paycheck, they're under the impression they own what you make. Just like a street mugger.

After 'Free' health insurance, what's next? 'Free' auto insurance? 'Free' home payments? 'Free' gasoline? 'Free' electricity?

If everything is free, who pays for it? Nobody? Or just those of us who work? You effing lazy bastards.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 11:43 PM
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reply to post by sotp
 


No for the most part, according to my observation,, money, the almighty dollar wins out over morals.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 11:50 PM
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reply to post by sotp
 


Of course they do. George W. Bush was elected fairly, and no American government has ever done anything that it's citizens objected to. Wow. Great job sucking up and regurgitating all that patriotic propaganda nonsense there...


In my humble opinion, GWB was mpt elecected "fairly" www.conspiracyplanet.com...



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 11:56 PM
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reply to post by stereovoyaged
 


I am curious, does everyone in Canada use the public health care program? Or do the government officials have their own program separate from the people?

Our government crooks are setting it up so that the "public health care" doesn't affect them at all. If it were truly a good system they are trying to set up, they would be using it also. That speaks volumes to the American people.
----------------------------------
While I am here...

Most people who go to college to become doctors do so for the money, not because they want to help their fellow man (which used to be the reason).

Scenario:
Your blood pressure shoots out of control at night and you rush to the hospital for help. When you finally get to be seen, the doctor on call comes in, speaks to you for 30 to 60 seconds and then leaves, you don't see him again. A nurse gives you the medicine to bring down your BP and sends you home. A few weeks later you get a bill from the hospital for $600+. Then you get a separate bill from the doctor, also $600+. $1200, this doesn't even count the money you put out for whatever medicine he prescribed for you.

(Those are not actual prices, but they are pretty close and in the minimum cost range.)

So...insurance isn't the only thing that needs "fixing" in the US. The costs of the entire medical system, insurance (especially malpractice), pharma, hospitals, and doctors need to be overhauled.

If they want to lay fines and taxes on someone, it should be the people (especially lawyers) who bring frivolous law suits against doctors and hospitals, which drive up the costs of health care.
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good night folks



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 11:59 PM
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I always wonder about the argument made by alot of Americans regarding someone else paying for your health via taxes and vice versa. You already pay taxes to someone elses benefit as do they pay for yours in a myriad of ways. Why is it when it comes to helping your fellow citizens and them also helping you get good health care without worrying about thousands of dollars of bills afterwards a problem, yet others are not?
It seems strange that one of the few worthwhile things to pay taxes for is the one thing being so vehemently opposed to.

[edit on 10-12-2009 by Solomons]



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 12:03 AM
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Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by sotp
 


In my humble opinion, GWB was mpt elecected "fairly"



I assume you mean "not" given the close proximity of the n/o & m/p keys, plus the page you linked to


I wasn't trying to accuse every American of behaving in that ludicrous overtly patriotic way, just the morons, so I apologise if it seemed that way.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 12:07 AM
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I'm jealous! I have been paying $500+ per month for family coverage with such high deductibles I cannot afford to go to the doctor.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 12:16 AM
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Well, i've lived in Canada for 26 years and I have survived quite well. I see a doctor when I need too, I have had surgerys which have cost me nothing. I do not see how anyone can be against this in the sense of the care we recieve, there are some groups that believe we are all up here dying. And trust me, my job is the administration of medical benefits for an AMERICAN company, for its AMERICAN employees and I gotta tell ya, the amount of money you guys are willing to shell out to have insurance is mind boggling. hundreds to even over a thousand per month, plus having to meet a deductible!!! thats insane!!


Most Americans are very stubborn and refuse (due to pride) to see how it could be.

Starred and flagged.

Very good post - I have heard from my Candanian source that what you have posted is true. Americans just need to wake up and throw out the "Corporate Media" who wants to delude us.

Every human being on the face of the planet should have good health care - EVERYONE.



[edit on 10-12-2009 by ofhumandescent]



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 12:21 AM
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Originally posted by mahajohn
Let us be clear here. The anti-universal health care folks are, as far as I can tell, often of the conservative persuasion. As such, they are much more - subconsciously or otherwise - swayed by status quo arguments coming from the media and their colleagues, arguments which owe as much to being devised by the insurance companies and big pharma, as well as a general lack of empathy or concern for their fellow brothers and sisters. That's why liberals are "bleeding hearts," because we generally are concerned for the welfare of our fellow men.

As far as I'm concerned, if you are against universal healthcare, you are not a humanist. In fact, you are in the pocket of the dominator complex, the matrix of groups that we can think of as those for whom the love of money and power is the root of all they do. There's some book somewhere that says something or other about the nature of the love of money.

A nation that can somehow, in the midst of a terrible economy, can find the money and resources to fund a global war against Islam (that's sure what it looks like to at least 1,000,000,000 Muslims) that costs trillions of dollars, and can bail out the richest F*CKS in the country with our hard-earned taxes, but yet can't offer healthcare to a huge population of its citizens, is an objectively evil, corrupt and decadent nation.

I now consider the Obama administration a complete failure, and beyond that, betrayers of the ideas that Obama trumped when he was campaigning. Our nation grows ever more hopeless, and nothing has changed, except the record profits of Goldman and oil companies.

For what's worth, I pay $56.00 a month for my employer-provided health insurance, plus $26.00 towards Medicare, and I still have to shell out an arm and a leg if I want dental work or new glasses.


If anyone is in anyones pocket it is the looter liberals buying votes with my tax money. What's the plan, tax now and start in 2014. How's that going to help poor who are sick now?

I can't stand big government and those that want it. Have you lost your minds and believe politicians. If you do, you will be living a life of poverty unseen since the depression. I hope you like waiting in line for medical services and food. THis government is broke, and its getting worse. You will be working for the government, yuck. Only stupid people are willing to become slaves to the government. I'm not going to be your slave either.

[edit on 10-12-2009 by A52FWY]



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 12:37 AM
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FYI for this interesting topic from an observer's perspective.

I have lived in Australia my whole life, we have had universal health care for about 25 years now, and it is not the disaster that it is made out to be in your media.

Yes we only have a population of 22 million people, but if we can do it, the USA can.

Considering we are very geographically isolated from the rest of the world which raises freight costs, the USA has the advantages we don't have of being close to manufacture for products and the economy of increased bulk buying power by a factor of 10-15 to reduce the costs.

It's not free here, we pay a 1.5% levy on personal income to pay for it. You get free hospital, subsidised doctors visits and prescriptions. You still have to contribute some amounts for medicines and doctors. Social security recipients pay very little for health care - $5 per prescription and that's it.

But it works.

This universal insurance does not cover elective surgery though.

You can still have private health insurance if you want to use your own surgeon in hospital. If you don't have private health insurance and you earn over $125K you pay an extra 1% levy.

It's not perfect, there are waiting lists for surgery, but it is not as bad as made out in your media.

In fact the debates and arguments put forth against the issue I have seen on US news channels are laughable and totally idiotic.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems the people against universal health care are conservatives being lobbied by the insurance companies and drug companies trying to protect profits that would be lost by the bulk buying power of a nationwide buying group.

And guess what???? We did not turn communist!!!! The idea of socialism in this issue is part of the laughable parts of the news debates.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 12:45 AM
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The thing is, the healthcare bill and plans are nothing like Canada's. Obama stated he wanted it to be nothing like Canada's.

People will still be paying for healthcare, and then paying a tax on top of that, that then goes to buy healthcare plans for the people that cannot afford them.

The premiums will only go higher in an attempt to protect the larger companies that are going to have to compete with lower standard of care plans that may eventually cost more than normal plans cost now.

If you are familiar with "medicare guidelines", then you know supplies and care are already rationed, and many US healthcare insurance companies already follow "Medicare Guidelines".

For example, if you have an unhealing wound, and you need a certain number of gauze pads per week to clean and re-dress that wound, Medicare limits the amopunt of gauze pads to a very minimal number.

If, in reality, you need twice the number of the gauze pads, you have to pay that expense, in full, out of pocket, along with the 20% co-pay for the ones Medicare will cover.

As of Tuesday, the plan is now to expand Medicare/Medicaid coverage to include more people, and this is considered by many to be minimal care.

I think people would be more happy if we did go to a type plan like Canada has, but that is not what is happening.

The only people thjat walk into an ER and get coverage for free are those that are unwilling to properly identify themselves so they cannot be skip traced when they back out on the bill. Medicaid overs some coverage for lower income people, but they sttill sometimes have expectations to pay some of the bill.

The whole healthcare deal is nothing but a design to grab power over insurance companies and force them out ofbusiness, and force people into the Medicare type government coverage and then hike the prices over what Medicare standards cost now, with wealthy people paying for the coverages ofthose who cannot pay, and middle class having topay an additional tax, plus carrying their own benefits plan.

The end result is the middle class, as always, will have huge insurance and co-pay bills, and will be no better off than they were to begin with.

Also, not to mention, peoplw ill be paying the huge tax rates, still carrying their own plans, for at least 5 years before the government option even is actually available.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 12:51 AM
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Originally posted by WTFover
reply to post by stereovoyaged
 


10 lbs of potatoes in Canada = $5...I pay between $2.30 and $2.75. That's pretty close to twice the amount. It was pretty easy to do a quick search for Canadian food prices and they are considerably higher.


Those prices are un-believable!!!!

In Australia we pay $2 per KILO (that's about 2 pounds) for potatoes on average and they are grown here!!!!!

The US has very good subsidies for farmers - we have none and are in a long multi year drought.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 12:54 AM
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Originally posted by Solomons
I always wonder about the argument made by alot of Americans regarding someone else paying for your health via taxes and vice versa. You already pay taxes to someone elses benefit as do they pay for yours in a myriad of ways. Why is it when it comes to helping your fellow citizens and them also helping you get good health care without worrying about thousands of dollars of bills afterwards a problem, yet others are not?
It seems strange that one of the few worthwhile things to pay taxes for is the one thing being so vehemently opposed to.

[edit on 10-12-2009 by Solomons]


You are correct, we pay thousands a year in Medicare taxes, and those rates are only going to go up, for some, an additonal 5%-7% per year. Some people alreay pay over 48% of their yearly income in taxes.

The reality is, this plan is NOTHING like Canada's and for the people posting how crazy Americans are, it isbecause you have not been paying attention.

We will continue paying higher taxes, an additonal tax, and there will still not be FREE health care.

We will still have to pay for a plan, even if it is a government one, and after 5 years, will most likely be higher than any private plans available now, because the government doesnt know how to not rob its people blind.

Medicare is already bropke, and considered bankrupt, because the gernment has been pilfering funds from it for years to pay for their pork barrel projects.

Again, it islikely that theonly people who get totally free health care will be the ones who give false identity to the ER when they go, and then skip out on the bill. A good majority of those people are illegal aliens that refuse to get or are unable to get identification.

It is a totalmisnomer if you think this is going to be like any "Universal healthcare" plan like in Canada or Australia, or Britain. It is nothing like *any* of those plans.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 01:00 AM
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reply to post by stereovoyaged
 


Buddy I hate to burst your bubble, but your health care isn't free. Just because you don't pay when you go to the doctor doesn't mean it isn't free. You top tax brackets in Canada approach 70%. Average is 40%. While half of Americans that file tax returns owe zero taxes. So yes, you pay and pay heavily.

Oh, and of the 11 Canadians I know, all of them hate their health care system.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 01:15 AM
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I admit to not reading this whole thread, frankly the arguments are wearing me down.
Yes the US healthcare system needs reform, it has a lot of serious problems but the current health care bill does not address them, not even close.
Most of what this 2k page horror does is create massive gov. agencies that will suck up most of the money. It also reduces a lot of the freedoms Americans are accustomed to.
Most people, including congress have not even read the bill, they have no idea whats coming.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 01:46 AM
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I guess i'm in the minority. Coverage for my wife and myself, 250 a month. 200 of that is for her coverage under my companies plan. I pay at most 10 dollars for medications and 15 for a doctors visit. Both myself and my wife have pre-existing conditions as well, all fully covered. Not really in a job where I make tons of money either, only around 28,000 a year. I guess I just work for a pretty good company that's willing to take care of their employees.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 02:08 AM
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reply to post by johnny2127
 


congratulations on finding 11 canadians that hate the health care system. i personally have spoken to hundreds if not thousands of canadians in my different work places, schooling, social circles etc. and not once have i EVER encountered a canadian that doesnt like our health care. not once. so you found 11 people, thats fantastic for you because those people are the minority in this country. and i dont base that on any sort of statistic, i base that on my own personal experiences with talking to people. and you may ask, "do you really talk to everyone you know about your health care system?" and i would answer, absolutely. i talk to anyone and everyone i can about it to collect my own personal data and come to my own personal conclusions outside of whatever the governments and media tell me. and, like i stated. i have yet to find someone who does not like our health care.

and i dont understand why people seem to think that receiving our health care its stealing? did i read that correctly or am i misunderstanding something i read?...because its not stealing if im contributing to it in my taxes as well...



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 02:24 AM
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Wanna know what I pay?. I want to compare this to others, so chime in.

I am a professional consultant, so deemed 'self employed', and no company is going to subsidise me.
Under 60
For my wife and I, no kids left in the house.
$20,000 + a year
And no, I am not rich, I just make a good salary or there is no way I could afford it.

Even with that, I pay lots of denero in co-pay and prescriptions.
It sucks bigtime. With that kind of money put away every year, my kids could really have something when I kick. The Medical / Pharma / Insurance syndrome here is way out of control, and if this new health reform does not reduce this to a somewhat reasonable total, I am considering refusing to pay Federal Income Tax in protest, which will probably land me in prison. (I hear the health care there is free!)



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 02:48 AM
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For what it's worth, here is my perspective on the subject.

I oppose government healthcare for two simple reasons, with some minor branching.

One, it is not the government's role to provide healthcare. This is primary, before all other considerations. It is the government's role to protect me, and my property. That is it. Everything else should be handled at a state level. Living in Texas, healthcare already is. We have a program where a negotiated price will be turned into payments if catastrophic illness occurs. My property is protected from my debt, and based on my income a payment plan is created. End of story.

Without exception, the government will screw up healthcare and exploit the sources of funding it creates. I have a Canadian friend who has a congenital, chronic illness. He has no complaints with the system either. But, I recall when a CAT scan was a new, and novel approach to diagnostics. The waiting list in Canada was listed in years. Many were fleeing to the US to seek this type of imaging. It is only within certain parameters that government healthcare seems to work.

Which brings me to another point, choice. I don't have a problem with a CAT scan, but I do with x-rays. The effect of exposure to radiation is cumulative. While it may cost the insurance companies a grand to have a CAT scan, I can opt to pay out of pocket < $500 for one myself to avoid the exposure. I can also approach a physician and have him order the tests I wish, paying for them out of pocket. The point is, I have a choice.

Then finally, government healthcare doesn't address the real problem with healthcare in America. While people insist that bucking a nationalized healthcare is simply falling into the trap of big pharma and insurance lobbyists, the truth is that we are already in their grasp and that is not the way out of it. Torte reform; handing over punitive awards not matching losses is ridiculous and not equitable. If something is that egregious of an offense, then criminal prosecution is warranted.

When I was young, I paid $20 to see a doctor. He wrote a prescription and that was that. When I was a boy and stepped on a nail, hitting my artery, a call was placed to the family physician who met us at his office. A tetanus shot, penicillin, a script for antibiotics, and a few stitches and we were on our way home. Not so anymore. Why, a doctor could be sued now for such treatment!

I once had a good family doctor. He used to talk with me, answer questions and work in multiple items where I didn't have to pay for another office visit. One day he said he couldn't afford to continue running his office, which he shared with another doctor and a dentist. He said the overhead from having to hire so many extra workers to handle insurance billing was killing him. He went back to teaching and sold his practice.

When my son broke his arm at 2 years old, we had insurance. Everyone on the plan said it would be 5-6 weeks before a doctor could put a cast on his arm. My wife called around until she found a sympathetic doctor who was not a pediatrician, but a sports doctor who had a child around my son's age who was willing to put a cast on him. Fortunately, he took my insurance. But he also said he was leaving what outwardly seemed a successful practice so that he could join another group of doctors in another state. When I asked why, he said his malpractice rate as too high to handle on his own. As I recall, it was around $75k, or higher.

I have a neighbor who is a family doctor who couldn't afford to practice on her own if it wasn't for her husband, who has a lucrative practice as an orthodontist. After rent, payroll and insurance, she clears in the 30k range.

This doesn't even begin to address the myriad of alternative cancer treatments which are effective for some people. Shackle the ambulance chasers, release the doctors and explore the treatments. Reform the FDA while you are at it as well.





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