Free Health Care is Awesome!!!

OP I dont know how else to say this, but...You are a moron!

The current bill will cost over $1 Trillion dollars that we do not have. On top of that, socialized health care is unsustainable! IT WOULD NOT BE FREE! People like you piss me off, you are to god damned gullible!

Bring the costs down. This could be done by embracing tort reform and by allowing insurance companies to compete abroad! Competition would drive the price of medical insurance DOWN, as competition ALWAYS does!

Originally posted by ofhumandescent

Every human being on the face of the planet should have good health care - EVERYONE.

Why? Tell me why everyone should have healthcare? Should we also buy everyone a vehicle, isnt that a basic necessity in our world today? should we build houses for everyone? There are several other absurd things I could list....

Health care is not a right. It is a choice. Tell me this, is it a right to stuff your face with fast food? Is it a right to clog your arteries as a direct result from eating these processed foods? Sure, but its also like slowly pulling a trigger to a gun that is pointed at your head. Heart disease is the number 1 killer in America, and it is largely based upon the lifestyles we choose...so, by picking a crappy lifestyle, I should have to pay for the mistakes made for that person living a crappy lifestyle (which results in several health problems)? I think not! I choose to live healthy, exercise, and workout religiously. I also watch what I eat... By doing this, I minimize how often I get sick. I keep my body young, which will benefit me later on down the road. I am in great shape with a body fat of 8% at 230lbs at 6'3". I am in terrific health!

Instead of preaching about rights to healthcare, maybe we should be preaching techniques to proper lifestyles, and the poor choices people make that directly, or indirectly affect their health as a result.

Health care is not a right...but a choice.

reply to post by semperfoo


America spends $900+ billion a year on a military behemoth with bases all over the world. Americans never seem to talk about that or care much about such a huge amount of money being wasted. Maybe you should cut that budget in half in the future. But you are right, it was quite foolish of Obama to bring out the bill just after such huge bailouts. You would think he would have waited a while until the public had forgotten or not cared much for it.

[edit on 10-12-2009 by Solomons]

Originally posted by Solomons
America spends $900+ billion a year on a military behemoth with bases all over the world.

I am all for closing down bases and bringing our men and women in uniform home to the US.

And the spending on military is actually one of the few areas our tax money should go to.

Americans never seem to talk about that or care much about such a huge amount of money being wasted.

Keeping our nations defenses strong, is not a waste. Trimming some of the fat wouldnt hurt. But I am for a high military expenditure for the defense of the American people.

Maybe you should cut that budget in half in the future. But you are right, it was quite foolish of Obama to bring out the bill just after such huge bailouts. You would think he would have waited a while until the public had forgotten or not cared much for it.

Yep, and on top of that, our economy is not looking so hot. This guy is doing everything possibly to not get reelected it seems. Cap N Trade anyone? I cant wait till this dildo gets voted out! The entire house is needing a good cleaning!

Originally posted by semperfoo
OP I dont know how else to say this, but...You are a moron!

The current bill will cost over $1 Trillion dollars that we do not have. On top of that, socialized health care is unsustainable! IT WOULD NOT BE FREE! People like you piss me off, you are to god damned gullible!

Bring the costs down. This could be done by embracing tort reform and by allowing insurance companies to compete abroad! Competition would drive the price of medical insurance DOWN, as competition ALWAYS does!

Free healthcare is a good thing. We have it here in Norway. The system aint perfect, but it doesnt give huge expenses if I get ill or need surgery.

But then again, we are a small country with much oil. I can see the funding problem in the US.

Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
In theory it does seem like a good idea to me. I wouldnt mind paying a little more tax if it meant i could save 500 dollars a month. I guess people are just afraid of change.

MessOnTheFED!

[edit on 9-12-2009 by MessOnTheFED!]

If it takes $500 a month to service a few.. calculating in the masses of uninsured (due to poverty who do not pay taxes) it's going to cost a huge amount more.. because you pay for you.. plus everyone else that DOES NOT PAY ....

Would you like "free" healthcare if it meant $800 in taxes a month?

Not to mention the hundreds of thousands laid off from the Insurance industries.. we can pay for their health care/unemployment etc too...

And I won't even get into the fact that Insurance companies are the second largest holder of US Government Debt........

Originally posted by Solomons
reply to post by semperfoo

 

America spends $900+ billion a year on a military behemoth with bases all over the world. Americans never seem to talk about that or care much about such a huge amount of money being wasted. Maybe you should cut that budget in half in the future.

Most of us DO want the budget cut. Most of us have NO control over that whatsoever. In case you hadn't noticed, there were a ton of threads pertaining to the war in Afganistan with many people on both sides of the argument. However, until the "war tax" is implemented, this money is already gone and taken away from us. It is easier to PREVENT more money from being taken than it is to get any back.

But you are right, it was quite foolish of Obama to bring out the bill just after such huge bailouts. You would think he would have waited a while until the public had forgotten or not cared much for it.

[edit on 10-12-2009 by Solomons]

Many of us would have been more receptive to healthcare reform had the economy not tanked or at least significantly improved. What people don't realize is that some of us that are opposed to this reform bill are simply scared -- and rightfully so -- that this bill is going to allow those that now can't afford healthcare to have it on our dime, while the additional costs of this will cause us to lose our homes, etc. In essence, they are potentially "saving" one group of people while sacrificing another.

There are many us that are struggling to make ends meet. We are not yet a statistic, but only one or two paychecks away from becoming one.

Further, aside from the personal hardships, our government has no business spending a trillion dollars on anything new right now. Funding the war is difficult because as long as our troops are there -- I certainly want them to have the means to protect themselves. I don't think our troops should be punished simply for folllowing the orders of Bush and now Obama.

If the government wanted to improve healthcare, without further bankrupting us and/or spending even more money we don't have, they should have begun intiatives to reduce insurance fraud, tackle inflated pharmaceutical costs, and use that money and momentum to improve Medicare and Medicaid.

It's a huge gamble at a time when we don't have the money to risk.

Originally posted by semperfoo
OP I dont know how else to say this, but...You are a moron!

The current bill will cost over $1 Trillion dollars that we do not have. On top of that, socialized health care is unsustainable! IT WOULD NOT BE FREE! People like you piss me off, you are to god damned gullible!

Really? the UK healthcare system has been running for around 60 years and is still going strong. Oh some people complain but some people complain about the american healthcare service............that is the people who actually get to use it of course

The OP is not a moron and for you to just flippantly suggest such a thing is quite strange when you have someone, within a system that has socialised healthcare giving you an inside scoop. Maybe it is time to listen to people who have actually experienced the system, the majority of positives not he minority of negatives that is.

How about this. You would spend less money per person and get better care if you used socialised medicine, the UK has a longer life expectancy, lower infant mortality, higher rate of detection and succesful treatment of breast cancer etc etc ad nauseum. But hey our system is rubbish compared to yours right? Even though it has better results lol.

Originally posted by semperfoo
Bring the costs down. This could be done by embracing tort reform and by allowing insurance companies to compete abroad! Competition would drive the price of medical insurance DOWN, as competition ALWAYS does!

Actually no. You see insurance companies want profit, therefore if they can deny treatment to as many people as possible they make more money. Basically this means you end up with tons of people who are not covered, can't afford treatment, spend months waiting, hoping that the government will cover them and in the mean time their illness progresses and they eventually die.

In a socialised system, you go in and get treated and your recovery chances are increased because you don't have to stress out about paying the bill. You are i hope aware of the research that proves that stress not only increases recovery time but also reduces the number of people that survive?

You can keep your private system, it is cruel, it is elitist, it profiteers off of peoples health in their most desperate hour and basically that means it is a product of an uncaring society. If you want to be a part of that then fine but some other countries have evolved beyond that.

Originally posted by WTFover
reply to post by stereovoyaged

 

Sure. I pay about $120 monthly premium for my health insurance. You said you live on an island, so you, probably, don't drive that much. But, my premiums equals the difference in what you pay for 3 gas fill-ups, 10 gallons of milk and a few Happy Meals.



[edit on 9-12-2009 by WTFover]

Newfoundland is the size of Texas, believe me, we drive here

Originally posted by semperfoo
OP I dont know how else to say this, but...You are a moron!

The current bill will cost over $1 Trillion dollars that we do not have. On top of that, socialized health care is unsustainable! IT WOULD NOT BE FREE! People like you piss me off, you are to god damned gullible!

Bring the costs down. This could be done by embracing tort reform and by allowing insurance companies to compete abroad! Competition would drive the price of medical insurance DOWN, as competition ALWAYS does!

I saw this thread yesterday and was dbeating on osting but at the time it was only 3 or for comments deep and everyone seemd to be pretty level headed, you sir are not.
Firstly the OP is not a moron, and he pisses you off for being gullable? Im sorry but our government here in Canada actually does have this Health Care system its not some sort of myth that we have all been led to believ so im not sure how him speaking of his own system is being gullable? Explain that one for me.
Secondly, as i am positive you have absolutely no idea hwat you talking about based on your comments let me give you the most basic of explanations.
In Canada we pay taxes, with the money we the people give the government the government gives us health care.
Bamm its hard to understand i know but your country would pay taxes (thats where this trillion dollars you speak of comes from) and than you would get health care. As for all the illegal immigrants and such is concerned its not like they can just walk into a hospital and start asking for fancy operations, they wont get stitches without a HEALTHCARD!!!
And in those occasions when a person is rushed to the hospital who doesnt have health care, they are treated, their lives attempted to be saved. You dont understand this because you apparantly value a few dollars more than you do other peoples lives.
How a taxed program is non substainable is beyond me, what is unsustainable is the countless of small business owners on here discussin how they pay over a thousand dolalrs A MONTH for insurance. Are you kidding me a thousand dollars?? You dont have a problem with that? Thats the problem in the US it will be absolutely impossible to get a few hundred million people thinking about anyone but themselves. These are your countrymen you are upset abnout supporting their lives? And when they arent your country men their your fellow human beings and no-one deserves to be refused basic care because they cant afford it.
Your semen doesnt ask the egg for a finacial statement before it gives you lfie, why should we ask to see one when you may loose that life?
Ohh and competition always drives the market down? Obviously you are un-familair with even your own economy because yes a saturated market can create competitive prices, however an oligopoly creates much higher prices. You really think that if the US opened their business to other countries that they would somehow take their place in line? That really sound like your countries past? pretty sure they will undercut the competition drive them out of business and once a few of the giants remian who can affor to take the hit for a while they will jack the prices up through the roof.
Your standing on the beach yelling that the ocean cant touch him as a tsunami is coming, its quite amazing.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent

Well, i've lived in Canada for 26 years and I have survived quite well. I see a doctor when I need too, I have had surgerys which have cost me nothing. I do not see how anyone can be against this in the sense of the care we recieve, there are some groups that believe we are all up here dying. And trust me, my job is the administration of medical benefits for an AMERICAN company, for its AMERICAN employees and I gotta tell ya, the amount of money you guys are willing to shell out to have insurance is mind boggling. hundreds to even over a thousand per month, plus having to meet a deductible!!! thats insane!!

Most Americans are very stubborn and refuse (due to pride) to see how it could be.

Starred and flagged.

Very good post - I have heard from my Candanian source that what you have posted is true. Americans just need to wake up and throw out the "Corporate Media" who wants to delude us.

Every human being on the face of the planet should have good health care - EVERYONE.



[edit on 10-12-2009 by ofhumandescent]

Speak of deluded. That what your statement is. Do you really think it's because Americans are stubborn that we won't take something free as opposed to paying an arm and a leg for it? WRONG! You see that's what I'm talking about, I don't know if you are Canadian or not but if you lie down with dogs you get fleas (you did say you had a Canadian source). Listen, you stereotyping know-it-all. We Americans know more than you think and we are smarter than we are given credit, quite possibly smarter than you, I think anyone is at this point with a statement like that. The reason why we aren`t so quick to lay down for our government is because they have a record for screwing us when we do lay down for them. Canada lays down and gets screwed regularly so it`s no new thing for them, but for Americans.....we know our government is up to something and that NOTHING in the states is FREE and usually comes at a great cost....the cost of our freedoms. You know nothing of Americans except for what is told on the deluded media shows and the news.....clearly you don`t know the American people at all.

Originally posted by Hack28
In Canada we pay taxes, with the money we the people give the government the government gives us health care.

We do too. It goes to Medicare and Medicaid. It goes towards food stamps, unemployment, welfare.

Bamm its hard to understand i know but your country would pay taxes (thats where this trillion dollars you speak of comes from) and than you would get health care.

1. Countries don't pay taxes -- PEOPLE pay taxes.
2. What part of: Many of us don't have the money to spend on this also that you don't get? Those of us with healthcare are not living high on the hog. Have you looked at our unemployemnt rate? Foreclosures? Underemployment? Please show me all of the people that can afford this in the USA RIGHT NOW.

3. You act like we live tax-free right now. What a joke! Do you have any idea of what we already pay here?

As for all the illegal immigrants and such is concerned its not like they can just walk into a hospital and start asking for fancy operations, they wont get stitches without a HEALTHCARD!!!

Just like illegals can't get a job without a social security card right? Have you checked out the business of fraud in the US? It's going strong. There will be forged health cards available before the real ones are even released -- guaranteed. Which is why I thought that they should have done something to combat fraud prior to starting up a new program that is going to be subjected to the same crooks.

And in those occasions when a person is rushed to the hospital who doesnt have health care, they are treated, their lives attempted to be saved.

We already do that! Hospitals have signs that state: No person in dire need of living saving measures may be denied care due to financial means, insurance, race, etc. If you show up at a hospital bleeding profusely -- they treat you and don't let anyone tell you differently. It's called "Charity Care" where I live. I'm not sure how its handled in other states.

You dont understand this because you apparantly value a few dollars more than you do other peoples lives.

A few dollars? Are you going to be willing to pay everything over a "few dollars" for my family? Sorry -- I don't consider $500 a month to be "a few dollars". I don't consider $200 to be chump change right now either.

How a taxed program is non substainable is beyond me, what is unsustainable is the countless of small business owners on here discussin how they pay over a thousand dolalrs A MONTH for insurance. Are you kidding me a thousand dollars?? You dont have a problem with that?

Taxed programs are only sustainable so long as the people have the money to pay the taxes and there are more of them than the ones taking advantage of it.

Do you think that they are going to get this money back? Further, the other side of the coin is that some of this cost gets passed onto the employee. Employees do not receive benefits for free most of the time. We (my family) pay around $165 per week for benefits. This amount, for us, will go up if reform is passed.

Thats the problem in the US it will be absolutely impossible to get a few hundred million people thinking about anyone but themselves.

I think that all of the charities that Americans themselves donate to -- not the government -- would disagree with you.

These are your countrymen you are upset abnout supporting their lives?

Welfare.
Food stamps.
Charity care.
Medicaid.
Scholarships.
Grants.
Minority programs.
Medicare.

More than 44 million people in this country rely on government assistance programs that are paid by the taxpayers in this country.

To say that we ignore the needs of others completely is a gross exaggeration.

In case you haven't noticed -- this healthcare bill will still NOT cover everyone. Which means that they are going to come back to us again in order to cover the 5% or so that this still doesn't.

Perhaps if the government could eliminate or reduce the numbe of holes in this reform bill, people would be a tad more receptive.

This is the START to what it is going to cost us -- not the end. And since many of us are already in the red --or barely in the black -- when reform is passed and taxes assigned, the number of people on the receiving end of this reform will increase while the contributing end will decrease. Which, in turn, will just result in higher amounts for those still paying.

See where this is headed?

A recession is not the time to be coming up with additional entitlement programs that the people can not support.

Two of the main things that suprised me the most about the responses i've seen in this thread are:

1. The amount of people who feel that not everyone is entitled to the same quality of health care as everyone else. Like those who are homeless or poor, or those who do not contribute are not worthy to recieve care as those who do.

2. The Americans who say they do not trust their govt with health care. How can you live in a country if you are so sure the govt is incapable of supporting you. You trust them with everything else but not health care?? If you are so unsure of your govt's abillity why do you live there?

Also, if Canada's health care is so flawed and universal health care is the death trap Americans claim, why is Canada #8 on the list of life expectancy by country and the u.s is number...#50

List of countries by life expectancy

The OP saying he hasn't paid $500 for healthcare cracks me up. Either he has through taxes and just thinks it's normal, or SOMEONE ELSE is footing the bill for his healthcare.

Regardless free healthcare is like a free lunch, it doesn't exist.

And FYI I pay less than $400 a month for healthcare for family of four including a life insurance on each family member and a FSA account. Includes Dental. It's out there but you have to be a go getter, which is what the USA is all about.

Originally posted by jjkenobi
And FYI I pay less than $400 a month for healthcare for family of four including a life insurance on each family member and a FSA account. Includes Dental. It's out there but you have to be a go getter, which is what the USA is all about.

This is one of the most arrogant statements i have seen on ATS. What you are basically saying is that if someone hasn't succeded to your level in life then they are not worth giving healthcare to. Being a "go getter" often isn't enough, you do reslise that yes? Or are you so utterly ignorant you don't realise? Again i state that the USA is an uncaring society by and large filled with people who have a horrible sense of entitlement, that being they have earned their status and anyone below them can die as far as they're concerned. You should be ashamed but i know you won't be, a compassionate being would be of course.

You are lucky in your healthcare costs. When the OP said he/she has paid less than 500 dollars i think they meant to compare it to the amount that isn't covered by insurance companies, the deductible. You should be aware that the amount you pay in tax towards a socialised healthcare system is lower than you would pay in insurance.

The fact you cannot see that point speaks wonders about yourself and your society, as ignorant as they are generally speaking. Again i say, and i want you to address this if you think your system is so smart. How is it that the UK, a socialised healthcare system spends less per capita on healthcare, has a slightly greater life expectancy, a far less rate of infant mortality, a greater survival rate of breast and indeed other cancers and generally does better in healthcare outcomes than the USA?

I mean if socialised healthcare sucks and costs a fortune then how are we doing it for less and getting better outcomes? Please answer this, if yo don't then all of your points are basically void.

[edit on 10-12-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Originally posted by jjkenobi
The OP saying he hasn't paid $500 for healthcare cracks me up. Either he has through taxes and just thinks it's normal, or SOMEONE ELSE is footing the bill for his healthcare.

Regardless free healthcare is like a free lunch, it doesn't exist.

And FYI I pay less than $400 a month for healthcare for family of four including a life insurance on each family member and a FSA account. Includes Dental. It's out there but you have to be a go getter, which is what the USA is all about.

I have worked every since the first week I was out of college. I support me. I pay way less than 400/mth for my health care through taxes. How are you any more of a go getter than I am, just because of where you were born. More American self rightious arrogance.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

I mean if socialised healthcare sucks and costs a fortune then how are we doing it for less and getting better outcomes? Please answer this, if yo don't then all of your points are basically void.

I predict this will go unchallenged

Originally posted by stereovoyaged

I predict this will go unchallenged

Oh now why say that, as soon as you say that someone will always want to challenge it lol.

Second line!

[edit on 10-12-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by stereovoyaged

I predict this will go unchallenged

Oh now why say that, as soon as you say that someone will always want to challenge it lol.

Second line!

[edit on 10-12-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

i'm sorry, look as if you are wrong in this instance my friend