Free Health Care is Awesome!!!

reply to post by marg6043

Marg,
I wish I were a bit less cynical then I could send you some outrage.

Fact is, it all comes down to what passes. If you're right, then the public option will die. The insurance companies will be control any new plan that is passed, and there will be no 'robust public option.' People will be forced to get health care and they will be fined if they don't have it (like your car registration). And costs will still be prohibitively high.

That's my worst case scenario, and I might almost rather have nothing.

Now the real test, if Obama signs that legislation then he's in deep trouble at least with me.

Also, I'll star and flag anything you write for a year, and I'll move to Vermont so I can vote for crazy Bernie Sanders.

[edit on 9-12-2009 by kenochs]

reply to post by stereovoyaged


Sure. I pay about $120 monthly premium for my health insurance. You said you live on an island, so you, probably, don't drive that much. But, my premiums equals the difference in what you pay for 3 gas fill-ups, 10 gallons of milk and a few Happy Meals.



[edit on 9-12-2009 by WTFover]

reply to post by kenochs

If you're right, then the public option will die.

Looks like that is taking place as we speak.

After days of secret talks, Senate Democrats tentatively agreed Tuesday night to drop a full-blown government-run insurance option from sweeping health care legislation, several officials said, a concession to party moderates whose votes are critical to passage of President Barack Obama's top domestic priority.

www.foxnews.com...

reply to post by jam321

And now our hopes rest on the House and the reconciliation process.
Yipes.

Originally posted by WTFover
And, a big problem is some who run to the doctor or E.R. every time they skin their elbow.

I'd say a bigger problem is someone who loses their home because of medical fees...I submit the following from Business Week:

Study Links Medical Costs and Personal Bankruptcy Medical problems caused 62% of all personal bankruptcies filed in the U.S. in 2007, according to a study by Harvard researchers. And in a finding that surprised even the researchers, 78% of those filers had medical insurance at the start of their illness, including 60.3% who had private coverage, not Medicare or Medicaid.
[url]http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jun2009/db2009064_666715.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index+-+temp_policy+%2Bamp%3B+government[ /url]

Finally, I am sick to the cojones of those Big Health shills who tell me how bad our system is and how high our taxes are, and what a miserable existence we lead as a result of our Universal Health Care.

Screw-ups? Yes...just like anything else, but the exception, not the rule.

And once and for all...no, it is not free...it just feels that way cuz there ain't no pain!!!

And to the 'government will only screw it up' cadre...I refer to that as the Eeyore Excuse...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/549edfa9a015.jpg[/atsimg]

[edit on 9-12-2009 by JohnnyCanuck]

reply to post by kenochs


Just curious about your overall view of these healthcare bills.

1) Do you believe cost of healthcare will go down with legislation they are trying to pass?

2) Do you feel our premiums will go down considering that now everybody is included and nobody can be denied?

I just feel Congress is doing too much wheeling and dealing and in the end it will amount to one big mess. IMO, if Congress was serious about healthcare they wouldn't care if the insurance and pharma companies didn't like the legislation. They wouldn't care about pandering for votes.

They would just do the right thing.

Is this really about healthcare for all or keeping a promise?

Let us be clear here. The anti-universal health care folks are, as far as I can tell, often of the conservative persuasion. As such, they are much more - subconsciously or otherwise - swayed by status quo arguments coming from the media and their colleagues, arguments which owe as much to being devised by the insurance companies and big pharma, as well as a general lack of empathy or concern for their fellow brothers and sisters. That's why liberals are "bleeding hearts," because we generally are concerned for the welfare of our fellow men.

As far as I'm concerned, if you are against universal healthcare, you are not a humanist. In fact, you are in the pocket of the dominator complex, the matrix of groups that we can think of as those for whom the love of money and power is the root of all they do. There's some book somewhere that says something or other about the nature of the love of money.

A nation that can somehow, in the midst of a terrible economy, can find the money and resources to fund a global war against Islam (that's sure what it looks like to at least 1,000,000,000 Muslims) that costs trillions of dollars, and can bail out the richest F*CKS in the country with our hard-earned taxes, but yet can't offer healthcare to a huge population of its citizens, is an objectively evil, corrupt and decadent nation.

I now consider the Obama administration a complete failure, and beyond that, betrayers of the ideas that Obama trumped when he was campaigning. Our nation grows ever more hopeless, and nothing has changed, except the record profits of Goldman and oil companies.

For what's worth, I pay $56.00 a month for my employer-provided health insurance, plus $26.00 towards Medicare, and I still have to shell out an arm and a leg if I want dental work or new glasses.

reply to post by jam321

Jam,
Thanks for asking, I'm just a guy trying to get by so I don't have any real wisdom here but from what I've read...

1) Do you believe cost of healthcare will go down with legislation they are trying to pass?
Ultimately, I'm not sure what will pass, but lets say we pass something with a robust public option:
If that happens, I think is that for people like me who are forced to buy health care on their own, without their companies help, health care costs will go down significantly. I also believe that folks who get their health care through their company will be able to maintain their plan uninterruped.

2) Do you feel our premiums will go down considering that now everybody is included and nobody can be denied?
If my above dream legislation gets passed, I know mine will go down, but I assume people on their work plans costs will stay about the same. I also assume that people without health care will now be forced to pay something. As opposed to showing up at an emergency room when something becomes a big problem, and I know we all pay for that right now already.

But what I don't know is a lot of other things.
I am assuming that without an insurance company as the middleman I'll be able to see my doctor unencumbered by the weird limitations that are currently in place (you know like the one where you're supposed to call your insurance company after you've called 911 to let them know you have to go to the hospital).

I also believe that doctors want this, and AARP wants it, and I think nearly half if not more than half of the American people want it. And finally, I know who doesn't want it... the insurance companies...

reply to post by kenochs


1.) I am not a member of the Repukes or the DemoCraps, I think they are both self serving egotistical Ass Clowns who are hell bent on destroying America.

2.) In case you are not aware Big Pharmacy companies and Big Insurance companies own both sides of the Aisle in Congress and the White House.
They donate money to them all. Hence the reason the Health care bill in congress right now is so water down .

3.) They say it will lower the debt huh... If I recall the same argument was giving about Medicare that it wouldn’t raise the debt... Question how do you provide free health care for all... you raise the taxes and you raise them high... Also I should note that the Current plan is going to take away a lot of money from Medicare... So um who wins?

4.)You said you wanted the same coverage that Congress gets and federal employees get, I totally agree with you, There is a bill sitting in the Ways and means committee that authorize Americans to
buy into that program... Thats reform I can belive in right there.

Originally posted by marg6043
Wake up people, what is been cooked in congress with the health care is changing by the minute, right now for those out there that has not been following the news, the public option is death as today in talks in congress and we have actual morons in congress that are telling that private insurance cost are not "that expensive" and that people if they could not afford health care for their families they should not breed so much.

Actually this came from the mouth of a Republican spokeman on CNBC.

Today.

ok, so I'm not seeing the problem here.. if you can't afford to take care of your kids, how about you close your legs and stop spitting another one out every year or so.

Originally posted by charlie0
reply to post by kenochs

 

We should all vote Republicans out of office next time. Because they are adamant in defeating one payer Public Option. Even though majority of Americans are for Public Option.

I have a better option, we should all vote the liberals and democraps out of office. Because they are adamant in defeating any hope of this nation getting back on its feet.

I see the shambles that is any public run social system in this country, I'll be damned if I let that cancer spread to my healthcare as well.

Originally posted by CoffinFeeder
I have a better option, we should all vote the liberals and democraps out of office. Because they are adamant in defeating any hope of this nation getting back on its feet.

Forgive my imputance, but from our perspective way up north...I'm not seeing 8 years of Bush as 'the good old days'. Obama may be doing a crash and burn, but I'd call it 'too little, too late'.

I see the shambles that is any public run social system in this country, I'll be damned if I let that cancer spread to my healthcare as well.

From the same perspective, I'd say it's too late...if, in fact it ever was healthy.

Originally posted by whaaa
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet

 

You have the VA, Our state and Federal rep. have Health coverage paid for by my taxes, Christ even the Iraqi citizens have Health care covered by my taxes. Native Americans have a health service paid for by my taxes.
Medicare and Medicaid is paid for by may taxes.

Now explain why my taxes shouldn't pay for Health care for ME!!

Why do you want to force me to pay for the extravagant lifestyle of insurance excs and their stockholders; if I want to be covered?

Doesn't it seem a little hypocritical for you to have the VA but deny your countrymen the same thing?

I wouldn't mind seeing a sales tax on everything to pay for health care for everyone.

Again I am not trying to deny Americans anything... This current bill is not in our best interest..and FYI while I am able to go to the VA for treatment... I DO NOT GO... I REPEAT I DO NOT GO... Want to know why? If I get sick it can take up to 30 days to get seen by a GP doctor, I need a specialist? Try up to 9 months. Oh and I can go to the ER but the wait time is bad to.... The only good thing is Prescriptions which are all free... That’s the only Plus to the horrible time you most wait here. Pros an Cons yes... Now imagine what I just said times it by the whole country.... It will get worse.. And while us Poor and Middle Class Americans wait in line the rich will get richer while we are taxed to death....

Now they (the rich) can afford a 60% tax increase... Could you afford that? Could you even afford a 15% tax Increase??????

Originally posted by pheos

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by pheos

 

What part of the Federal government destroys everything it touches did you not understand????

And why is that many seem to use this line as a comeback when they can't come up with anything better?

Seriously though, I don't trust our government any more than many of the people on this site. At all. If I had the chance I would flee this country in an instant. It's one of the most corrupt governments in the world in my opinion, but I also trust the health insurance companies and pharmaceuticals even less, and these guys are running the show more and more. Ever been to Mexico, went into a legit pharmacy, and bought a drug you needed that you get prescriptions here in the US for, and seen how much it costs there? I have. Was on vacation and ran out of a prescription. Went to a pharmacy, was able to get it refilled, a whole prescription, for a third of the cost of what I pay for the same drug's copay here in the US! That's how much control these companies have over here. Though I absolutely don't trust the US government, I at least want to give it a chance. What we have now for healthcare is terrible, but what I've seen given to my father through the state I'm actually envious of wish I had it myself (it's not available to those who can get insurance by other means). At least give it a chance. That's all I want, is options.

Because It is true, the same question can be asked of you.
You said you trust the pharma and insurance companies less than the government... I bet it pisses you off that the above mentioned stuff money in the re-election coffers... So now who do you trust? The Jerks who write this crap or the Assclowns who finance them, they’re both the same people. Open your eyes and take a look. The government is in bed with big business and this includes Pharmacy and Insurance companies.

Originally posted by stereovoyaged
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet

 

Isnt' it worth at least a try, it cannot be any worst than the system you have in place now, I guess you would rather the devil you know than the devil you dont.

Why get out of the pot and jump into the fire.... The current bills being debated on our garbage, you want that crap to become law? If they were serious about fixing it they would instead of water it down, negotiate in secret and behind closed doors. They'd bring it out to the public, do you forget before the house vote 300 pages were added to the bill and no one read it? Do you not remember the pissed off Americans over the summer? Do you forget when they rushed through bills and passed them(TARP) which have proven they have done nothing but hurt the economy... Do you really want this Fools dictating your health care? By forcing you to carry insurance? That’s what is in the Bill do you really want that? Do you want these bills in its current form?

I agree totally I live in the UK and although the NHS may not always be the best service, at least it is always there for you! You can also pay something like 28 pound and fill in a form and you get unlimited free prescriptions for 3 months. Its called a Prescription Prepayment Certificate, PPC. If you have a chronic condition that requires alot of medicinal treatment but is not covered by a full exemption of costs, then this is great!!
Sometimes getting the best treatment in NHS hospitals requires being a little more robust with staff, as they often do not want to do more than they have to! It also helps to search things yourself before you go and read up on possible conditions, then they won't take you for a mug or time waster.

www.nhs.uk...

reply to post by ENIMY


Perhaps they dont do more then they have to because they get paid by the amount of patients they see and treat? So if you come in with a sore throat and have had it for three months are they going to treat you for a sore throat, treat you for strep thoart, or push for thorat cancer tests?

reply to post by CoffinFeeder


Got tell that to the religious groups and anti abortion groups in the nation, actually if the religious crap get their wish abortion will be abolished and banned from any private insurance coverage under people's own pockets.

Still got tell what you said to any human rights in the US groups and see where it takes you.

Still, Medicare is going to pay for those that can not pay and can not be forced into mandated private insurance because of income and is coming out of you tax payer money not matter how much you bark at the wrong tree.

Ignorance is bliss when people have not clue what is coming our way.

Poor still will be covered by tax payer and the only ones paying fines and been forced into private insurance is anybody that works and pay taxes.

Get it!!!!!!

[edit on 9-12-2009 by marg6043]

reply to post by marg6043



I am not sure how to rate your post, are you for the current health bill or against it?

But as far as abortion it should be illegal for party girls and people who can have sex and not face up to the music later... As far as women who were raped, and women who may die from the child birth then its there choice.

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by stereovoyaged

 

We do not trust the government to run a National Health care... It may work for you in Canada, but your system won’t work here, also the CBO states that the Health Care bill in its current form will increase our Debt....

You need to do some of your own homework. What you have stated is a falsehood. The CBO has stated it will REDUCE the deficeit!!
tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...
donklephant.com...
blogs.acponline.org...
And according to Paul Krugman it will be cheaper than the Money Bush gave to the rich.
www.politifact.com...

This health care reform bill is another form of entitlements coming from the party of Slavery, The party of Jim crow, and now the newest form of slavery the big brother providing for you making you and your future generations lazy... Don’t believe me take a trip to our inner-cities and trailer parks where welfare is in abundance and schools are horrible.

Do you really want these ass-clowns telling you want kind of care you can get?

Why do you people like you even weigh in on a topic you know nothing about? You did realize the OP was from Canada didn't you? No wonder people in other countries think we are stupid. Nice going.
So health care reform = Slavery? Explain.
Health care reform = Jim Crow? Really? You obviously don't understand civil liberties.
I can always tell a very stupid person when they start cranking up on public, excuse me, I mean government schools. Yea, you would know about morons coming out of those schools wouldn't you? Been there, done that?