Free Health Care is Awesome!!!

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posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by stereovoyaged
reply to post by WTFover
 


There is no way I pay 13k in sales tax man...


I didn't say anything about sales tax. I have no idea what you pay, in sales taxes. My point was that the increased costs of your goods and services are, partially, due to the costs of health care coverage.You are buying health insurance coverage, whether you want to admit it or not. It is just hidden in the costs of all of the other things you buy.




posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by 12GaugePermissionSlip
 


No i did not state any false hood or lies, The current bills will increase the debt... Did you not know that for 5 years they will tax you and will not get nothing in return before the "health care reform" even takes effect? Maybe you should do some research there?

And I wasn’t addressing the Op there smart person I was addressing Americans there Genius.

I am not against health care reform... Where did I ever say that I was? Never have I said I am against it... I don’t want their reform in its current status, the Mandatory coverage that the Government is pushing down our throats, the fines and penalties if you don’t get into a private insurance policy. Did you know that the single payer and public option is now off the table? So what’s that say now you will be forced by the Government to go into a private insurance policy or pay fines for it. Where is the reform at? Do some of your own research there instead of spouting off with your messiahs rhetoric.


Now as far as THIS CURRENT HEALTH CARE REFORM BILL H.R 3200.

THEY WILL BE FORCING YOU TO GET A PRIVATE INSURANCE PLAN.... THATS SLAVERY... Same with the BS mandatory car Insurance. When you FORCE SOMEONE TO DO SOMETHING THEY DONT WANT TO DO ITS EITHER SLAVERY or RAPE?

I will let you pick which one it is.


[edit on 9-12-2009 by poedxsoldiervet]



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
 


Party girls?

I guess we should all carry a monitor on our privates parts to see how much of our sexual encounters are from promiscuity of just to make sure is for the preservation of the species, don't get me wrong that that part of the post just made my day, and BTW I am a 49 year old woman.


That has nothing to gain from abortion rights right now, but I am very happy that when I was young I had a choice and so my daughter.

Something my mother and grandmother fought in their younger years so I didn't have too and my daughter either.

Now As for health insurance bill and the crap is been concocted in congress with the lobbyist pimps from big pharma and the insurance companies buying the whores we call our elected congress, without a public option this nothing more than a power grab to control the population by mandate, you work? you pay taxes? do you drive? you get to have your insurance on car regulated? your policies adjusted because of income?, no you don't and neither a mandate private insurance bill will have it either, because it has big private insurance hands all over, they are the ones that proposed the penalties and fees and they are ones that wrote the mandated clause in it and our whores in congress just agree with it becasue the campaign money they are promised.

Wake up people. . .



[edit on 9-12-2009 by marg6043]



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by WTFover
You are buying health insurance coverage, whether you want to admit it or not. It is just hidden in the costs of all of the other things you buy.


Of course we are...but our standard of living is just as good as yours...perhaps better when you count in the fact that our banks are stable and we aren't being tossed out of our homes at the same pace as y'all. So...all that and universal health care! Like I said, it merely feels like it's free, and that's just fine.


Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet Same with the BS mandatory car Insurance. When you FORCE SOMEONE TO DO SOMETHING THEY DONT WANT TO DO ITS EITHER SLAVERY or RAPE?


Nobody is forcing you to buy car insurance. It's only mandatory if you drive...so that if you plough into me, you can pay for the damage.
I kinda like that way of thinking...now if you can only get the for-profits out of that, it would be even better.

Ah yes...the Great Pink North....

[edit on 9-12-2009 by JohnnyCanuck]



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 01:46 PM
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The insurance companies and the big pharma have had an easy run. Now that they are threatened, they are feeding the disinfo campaigns.

It's easy: The US health care system is broken because of the influences of big pharma, the insurance companies, and the ambulance chaser lawyers.
Take these guys out of the equation and you'd be amazed at how quickly the US will rise up the ranks of the WHO health care list. It's no longer about helping the sick and injured, it's about money. Just money.

You pay your very high insurance premiums because you are afraid not to! You then have a huge deductible to pay for services that should be covered by your insurance, but are not. You don't want to actually use the insurance because that makes your premiums go up (you're now a liability!). The hospital has to charge high fees because they are up to their eyeballs in liability insurance, but the insurance companies won't allow them to charge too much to them for their services. Who wins? The insurance companies.

Add to that the imposition of the insurance companies that you use their preferred doctors (they are preferred because they are really good at paying their bills on time, not because they are the best doctors). These doctors possibly are not the best for you, but you are forced to go there to avoid your premiums going up.

Our friends in the UK, Canada etc. have a little higher taxes, and don't have any worries.
This rubbish about the waiting lists for operation is taken out of context. If you need to have, say, a non-malignant, non-growing cyst removed from your butt, you might have to wait on the OR becoming free after they've completed some life saving operations. You are not going to wait if you need an operation to save your life.

Having experienced both the US and the UK health care systems personally, I'd have to say that the UK wins.

If you want to pay extra for your private medicine, nobody will stop you (as mentioned above with the BUPA thing). It's still a lot less than a basic, "Joe-six-pack" family HMO or PPO premium - even if you add in the extra taxes.

Everyone in the US is so worried about their health all the time. It's the worry that's killing them!



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by Badgered1
 


Thank you so much, you are one very special person, that can put in very easy to understand words exactly the scam behind the insurance profiteering going on in this nation.

No wonder they rank in the top three when it comes to most money going to campaign in the nation, they are making a killing, have more money to spend even with their expensive CEOs and they are the ones writing the darn insurance bill is running in congress.

people still doesn't get it, is a power grab and we all are going to face realities once they get away with making it into a law.

These corrupted insurance companies has made the beds that now we all the consumers have to lie on so they can live in their expensive mansions.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Originally posted by WTFover
Like I said, it merely feels like it's free, and that's just fine.



So, what, exactly is the argument about? Sadly, that sounds like a defeatist attitude. "It's OK to make me pay for my "free" health care coverage, as long as you make me "feel" good about it". Sounds an awful lot like the emotions the Las Vegas casinos instill in their victims...ahem...customers.



[edit on 9-12-2009 by WTFover]



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by WTFover

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Originally posted by WTFover
Like I said, it merely feels like it's free, and that's just fine.



So, what, exactly is the argument about? Sadly, that sounds like a defeatist attitude. "It's OK to make me pay for my "free" health care coverage, as long as you make me "feel" good about it". Sounds an awful lot like the emotions the Las Vegas casinos instill in their victims...ahem...customers.





Yeah and Las Vegas is a lot like the Insurance companies. It's a gamble whether or not they are going to find a loophole so they won't have to cover you. You stand a better chance of a payout in Vegas than from the Insurance co's. And what are the odds of paying premiums into a system, never using the services and still being booted out once you turn 50? I'm beginning to think you are a shill for the corps.

You do put up a good argument but you get pwnd by common sense every time.



[edit on 9-12-2009 by whaaa]



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
 


Even if they are only doing what they have to because they are being paid per patient, if you request that you want a test done and they refuse you can get a second opinion. If the doctor treats you only for a common sore throat and you get diagnosed with something all the more sinister elsewhere then you have yourself a career destroying lawsuit. My experience as i said is you have to tell them how you want to go forward with any treatment be assertive but not aggressive. There are often many doctors which you are registered with in the same clinic so second opinions are not difficult to obtain and are also free. Anything more than that you've gotta pay



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by WTFover

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Originally posted by WTFover
Like I said, it merely feels like it's free, and that's just fine.

So, what, exactly is the argument about? Sadly, that sounds like a defeatist attitude. "It's OK to make me pay for my "free" health care coverage, as long as you make me "feel" good about it". Sounds an awful lot like the emotions the Las Vegas casinos instill in their victims...ahem...customers.


Nonsense. You are working hard at missing the point. Health care here is a given. The OP called it free, and is getting jumped on for it. So shoot him for his hyperbole...but he's just so darn happy he doesn't have to reach for anything more than his health card when he needs a doctor. Me too!

We live as well as you do.

Our out-of-pocket medical expenses are minimal.

Of course we pay taxes...and we feel good about it being the price of living in a civilised society.

Don't be so stunned.

[edit on 9-12-2009 by JohnnyCanuck]



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by ENIMY
 


I am glad it works for your country, I hope that we can have something that works for us, But H.R 3200 in its current form will not work for America, It forces everyone into a private insurance policy with the threat of fines and I think jail time.

[edit on 9-12-2009 by poedxsoldiervet]



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by whaaa
 


Is this the only post you've read, on this thread? I have not argued for or against any aspect of health care coverage or health care insurance. Shill for the corps? All I've done here is to show the OP that his/her health care isn't really free, as the thread title states. Staying on topic.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
 


Yeah i hope if it's the future of American health care it can be tweaked and tidied up into something practically applicable for everyone. The NHS is still not perfect and still has a load of problems, but its good to have a fall back, and it's about the only good part of the Labour Party legacy. I expect they won't be remembered for this in particular though.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by ENIMY
 


Unfortunately H.R 3200 is not that, I have suggested this many times, Allow Americans to buy into the federal health insurance program. Any Health Insurance company that wants to sell Insurance has to be registered with OPM. 2.) Instituted Tort reform, and any doctor who makes the same mistakes regularly looses there license. Get rid of Medicare and current Medicare deductions go toward a lowered premiums.

It’s a working idea which I am sure smarter people could make it work.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 03:04 PM
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There are aspects of socialist ideals that are useful and there are aspects that are not.

A health care system to a population that pays high taxes is a good one.

A welfare system that continues to support capable people, is not. lol

Having said that, the opponents of health care in the US who try to use Canada as an example of failure are in and of themselves a failure. The health care system in Canada is really quite good.

It saved my dad's life, it saved my mom and it saved my grandparents all from dying sooner than they should have. And no one was billed a cent of it.


We just keep paying taxes into it and tax the crap out of booze and cigs to help subsidize it further. Also a good idea! I'd like to see all recreational drugs legalized, controlled and taxed! That way, junkies can pay their way too! Criminals are removed from the equation and tax revenues spike!

Too bad we have a lot of stupid stupid people who lack vision beyond their own arm in power.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 03:16 PM
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I must say that many of my friends in the UK all seem to share the opinion of the OP. There are a few that like to pick nits and split hairs over this topic of course, but I believe that's just their inner greedy side coming to the surface. If paying a few more taxes means...

1 - Care for all
2 - the dismantling of the 'for profit' hospitals
3 - an end to the scam that is called Health/Medical Insurance
4 - no more use of the term 'pre-existing condition' to deny care

...then I am all for it.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 03:28 PM
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I have never gotten a straight answer on this. Is what we are getting here in the U.S. anything like what they get in Canada and Europe? Or do we even know? I am under the impression it is different, but I don't know enough about what they have to say for sure.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by stereovoyaged
I have seen a number of threads/tv shows/magazine articles etc recentlyl because of the u.s health care bill saying that free health care is a horrible idea. A lot of these articles paint a picture of Canadian health care as an epic failure. Well, i've lived in Canada for 26 years and I have survived quite well. I see a doctor when I need too, I have had surgerys which have cost me nothing. I do not see how anyone can be against this in the sense of the care we recieve, there are some groups that believe we are all up here dying. And trust me, my job is the administration of medical benefits for an AMERICAN company, for its AMERICAN employees and I gotta tell ya, the amount of money you guys are willing to shell out to have insurance is mind boggling. hundreds to even over a thousand per month, plus having to meet a deductible!!! thats insane!! And no one can tell me this is not true because i see it all all day every day!!!


apprciate your thread! there has been many threads here in ATS regarding this matter, and truly, only those who have lived in other countries understand that the so called "epic failure" is nothing but a republican smear machine doing what it does best.

having said that, i am a doctor of some kind by profession, and i have made a small fortune through my private practice here in oregon. i see a great deal of systematic neglect and fruadulant insurance companies that are quick to collect, but never pay out. once i even recieved a check from MetLife for $2.00... after a root canal. (yes Im a dentist) we eventually dropped that insurance, and there is nobody that takes MetLife within 50 mile radius from where i'm at. so much for the advantage of having expensive, private insurance......

one counterargument i do have against Obama's plan, besides the fact that our current health care system is making me richer than i ever dreamed of while in school, is that once health insurance becomes mandatory as drivers insurance did way back when, only people that will benefit from this is... the same insurance companies that are denying payments to docs and denying services to its clients... such as MetLife.
to make such private insurance that already doesn't work as of now, mandatory, is simply an idiotic idea that will leave tons of 'covered' people without providers who will take their private insurance plans. most plans that are sold today in US aren't good enough to be accepted in most offices, at least in dentistry. expanding government care(providers as well as government facilities) is the only true way to exapnd the coverage, from experience... as I have worked for the US department of Public health a decade ago. public system works. all military and native tribes get the tri-care in US. tri-care seems crummy at times because there are very few government facilities and no private office will ever take tri-care. but the system has been proven, and proven to work quite well in areas with ample supply of these facilities.

as for the Canadian System, my Canadian Aunt who raised me will never consider moving down here ever. and i think that pretty much sums up this topic.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 03:38 PM
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Very interesting thread....

in my opinion as a Canadian our system works great. However I have not needed the hospital much in life yet.

However, I feel it is something much deeper and more sacred then mere dollars and cents.

I feel that knowing in your heart and subconscious that you and your family ALWAYS have healthcare and you need not ever think about it GREATLY shapes your entire worldview and the peace you find in it.

I can seriously not imagine having to come up with 500-1000 dollars a MONTH to pay for any health coverage. I actually feel sorry for the millions of poor Americans whom must worry everynight about these things. How can you be free when you are worrying about paying for these crazy costs.

And secondly I notice that you are all worried about these WELFARE PEOPLE just mooching off of the system and why should you have to pay for that?

Well let me help you make it a little more understandable...see you pay for them so that when you or your family need the system it is there, too. Get it?

I mean Canada has a huge amount of people on welfare now but let me tell you, I would rather them have Government money then have them have NOTHING!

Of course the system is not perfect but it just seems to me that the cost of having that peace of mind for you and your family, and your co-workers and the poor and the middle and the old, that no matter what situation you find yourself in in life...

you will get the healthcare you need.

Not the healthare you can afford.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by stereovoyaged
Exaclty, honestly, I havn't spent 500 on health care in my life, so I cannot imagine per month.


Really? So who's paying for it then?

Where are your taxes going? Or do you not pay taxes?





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