reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
po:
I feel like your our GOP/insurance industry talking points guy. You're the guy who the insurance industry loves because your dislike government so
much the insurance industry is counting on you to vote against a plan that is actually going to make your life EASIER!!!!!
You say you don't trust the govt to run health care, I get that, but actually, most independent analysis suggests it will actually decrease the debt.
And all that I am asking is that I get the chance to buy into a medicare or VA type system, both government run health care plans that work quite
well... Better yet, just allow me to get the same health care that our SENATORS/ and CONGRESSMEN GET, which they seem to love.
You say this health care reform bill is another form of entitlements. I don't agree. I think the public option allows for more freedom of choice in
the market place by giving me more options. And honestly, at this point, I dislike insurance companies more than I dislike the government. And I
dislike my mortgage company even more, but that's a different story.
Free Health Care is Awesome!!!, page 3
privacy
reply posted on 9-12-2009 @ 11:09 AM by pheos
Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by pheos
What part of the Federal government destroys everything it touches did you not understand????
And why is that many seem to use this line as a comeback when they can't come up with anything better?
Seriously though, I don't trust our government any more than many of the people on this site. At all. If I had the chance I would flee this country in an instant. It's one of the most corrupt governments in the world in my opinion, but I also trust the health insurance companies and pharmaceuticals even less, and these guys are running the show more and more. Ever been to Mexico, went into a legit pharmacy, and bought a drug you needed that you get prescriptions here in the US for, and seen how much it costs there? I have. Was on vacation and ran out of a prescription. Went to a pharmacy, was able to get it refilled, a whole prescription, for a third of the cost of what I pay for the same drug's copay here in the US! That's how much control these companies have over here. Though I absolutely don't trust the US government, I at least want to give it a chance. What we have now for healthcare is terrible, but what I've seen given to my father through the state I'm actually envious of wish I had it myself (it's not available to those who can get insurance by other means). At least give it a chance. That's all I want, is options.
reply posted on 9-12-2009 @ 11:09 AM by kenochs
reply to post by marg6043
Marg,
I think we're reading the same thing and what I see is that the public option (at least in the Senate version of health care) is indeed dead. That in fact we're going to get a plan backed by the insurance companies that basically gives the whole nation access to health care... and it lowers the age at which you can get medicare from 65 to 55.
If so, I have this to say: Howard Dean is right, if a Dem controlled Congress passes some crappy plan cobbled together with the insurance industry (who are buying this debate), and there's no robust public option in it, and in fact mandates national coverage but does nothing to cut our outrageous costs... and Obama doesn't veto it. I am going to be displeased, and I don't think I'm alone.
Marg,
I think we're reading the same thing and what I see is that the public option (at least in the Senate version of health care) is indeed dead. That in fact we're going to get a plan backed by the insurance companies that basically gives the whole nation access to health care... and it lowers the age at which you can get medicare from 65 to 55.
If so, I have this to say: Howard Dean is right, if a Dem controlled Congress passes some crappy plan cobbled together with the insurance industry (who are buying this debate), and there's no robust public option in it, and in fact mandates national coverage but does nothing to cut our outrageous costs... and Obama doesn't veto it. I am going to be displeased, and I don't think I'm alone.
reply posted on 9-12-2009 @ 11:10 AM by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
Hi, BH, good to see you again.
Anyway, I agree with the above sentence. However, the debate is not just political with common citizens; it is also true of Congressional members. Quite honestly, both parties play to their lobbyists. The democrats play to the trial lawyers, while the Republicans play to the insurance companies, while both parties trade their votes for pork(ala the $300,000,000 for Louisiana in exchange for a vote on health care).
I doubt any citizen does not agree that health care INSURANCE needs to be reformed. However, the bill which is now in the Senate, as of this morning, has no public option, to act as a counter-balance to private insurance firms. This was another compromise made to get votes, of course. In the end, the compromises encompass the WORST parts of "reform".
Wouldn't it be better to start over, and truly reform what needs to be reformed, namely the INSURANCE COMPANIES? This new bill does NOTHING to reign them in. Instead, it allows them to continue to raise premiums to obscene levels, bankrupting the nation, and costing Americans jobs.
Much of the debate is purely political. If a Republican were in the White House, many of the same people who are saying it's a horrible idea would be singing its praises and many who support it now would be finding fault.
Hi, BH, good to see you again.
Anyway, I agree with the above sentence. However, the debate is not just political with common citizens; it is also true of Congressional members. Quite honestly, both parties play to their lobbyists. The democrats play to the trial lawyers, while the Republicans play to the insurance companies, while both parties trade their votes for pork(ala the $300,000,000 for Louisiana in exchange for a vote on health care).
I doubt any citizen does not agree that health care INSURANCE needs to be reformed. However, the bill which is now in the Senate, as of this morning, has no public option, to act as a counter-balance to private insurance firms. This was another compromise made to get votes, of course. In the end, the compromises encompass the WORST parts of "reform".
Wouldn't it be better to start over, and truly reform what needs to be reformed, namely the INSURANCE COMPANIES? This new bill does NOTHING to reign them in. Instead, it allows them to continue to raise premiums to obscene levels, bankrupting the nation, and costing Americans jobs.
reply posted on 9-12-2009 @ 11:12 AM by pheos
reply to post by kenochs
Thank you kenochs! You took the words straight out of my mouth. I couldn't agree more. Options is exactly what we need. The pharmaceuticals and healthcare giants are the ones behind the fear that is beings created (in my opinion). They would stand to lose a lot in this case.
Thank you kenochs! You took the words straight out of my mouth. I couldn't agree more. Options is exactly what we need. The pharmaceuticals and healthcare giants are the ones behind the fear that is beings created (in my opinion). They would stand to lose a lot in this case.
reply posted on 9-12-2009 @ 11:19 AM by jam321
reply to post by WTFover
IMO, the ones who constantly bring up the "it's free" slogan are the same ones willing to buy ocean front property in Kansas.
If people don't change their habits, healthcare will continue to be a problem.
The OP stated Canadian health care is "free"
IMO, the ones who constantly bring up the "it's free" slogan are the same ones willing to buy ocean front property in Kansas.
If people don't change their habits, healthcare will continue to be a problem.
reply posted on 9-12-2009 @ 11:20 AM by marg6043
reply to post by kenochs
Yes they are planning to do that to put more burden into the Medicare that is after all a tax payer mandate as an entitlement program taken out of our pay checks regardless if you want it or not.
Robbing the tax payer as usual, but what it bothers me is that Medicare is not free for everyone, my parents now over 65 have to pay from their SS funds for their Medicare coverage, still the health care bill, or whatever they have been concocting in congress, calls for millions if not billions of cuts to the elderly so what is going to be, putting the burden into a system that will be cut very hard, I don't get it, this mean more tax payer burden and less quality of life with a crappy health care.
Doesn't make sense.
Yes they are planning to do that to put more burden into the Medicare that is after all a tax payer mandate as an entitlement program taken out of our pay checks regardless if you want it or not.
Robbing the tax payer as usual, but what it bothers me is that Medicare is not free for everyone, my parents now over 65 have to pay from their SS funds for their Medicare coverage, still the health care bill, or whatever they have been concocting in congress, calls for millions if not billions of cuts to the elderly so what is going to be, putting the burden into a system that will be cut very hard, I don't get it, this mean more tax payer burden and less quality of life with a crappy health care.
Doesn't make sense.
reply posted on 9-12-2009 @ 11:23 AM by kenochs
reply to post by WTFover
I agree with you on taxes, nothing is free, I get that.
Though I think the poster was trying to be fascetious.
Here's the thing, do you think the taxes necessary to pay for a public option surpass my 1k plus monthly health care bill?
So, for me, it still makes sense. You can tax my gas, tax my cigarettes, tax my wingdings, hohos and snowballs.
But don't make me worry about whether I can afford to take my kid to the doctor.
I agree with you on taxes, nothing is free, I get that.
Though I think the poster was trying to be fascetious.
Here's the thing, do you think the taxes necessary to pay for a public option surpass my 1k plus monthly health care bill?
So, for me, it still makes sense. You can tax my gas, tax my cigarettes, tax my wingdings, hohos and snowballs.
But don't make me worry about whether I can afford to take my kid to the doctor.
reply posted on 9-12-2009 @ 11:27 AM by kenochs
reply to post by marg6043
I see your point and if it were true I would agree with you but the whole medicare is being cut thing is just outright false. Here's factcheck.org on this.
www.factcheck.org...
"The truth is that the pending House bill extracts $500 billion from projected Medicare spending over 10 years, as scored by the Congressional Budget Office, by doing such things as trimming projected increases in the program’s payments for medical services, not including physicians. Increases in other areas, such as payments to doctors, bring the net savings down to less than half that amount. But none of the predicted savings – or cuts, depending on one’s perspective – come from reducing current or future benefits for seniors."
The whole article is worth a read.
Still, I fall back on my insistence, robust public option or nothing.
I see your point and if it were true I would agree with you but the whole medicare is being cut thing is just outright false. Here's factcheck.org on this.
www.factcheck.org...
"The truth is that the pending House bill extracts $500 billion from projected Medicare spending over 10 years, as scored by the Congressional Budget Office, by doing such things as trimming projected increases in the program’s payments for medical services, not including physicians. Increases in other areas, such as payments to doctors, bring the net savings down to less than half that amount. But none of the predicted savings – or cuts, depending on one’s perspective – come from reducing current or future benefits for seniors."
The whole article is worth a read.
Still, I fall back on my insistence, robust public option or nothing.
reply posted on 9-12-2009 @ 11:27 AM by WTFover
reply to post by stereovoyaged
10 lbs of potatoes in Canada = $5...I pay between $2.30 and $2.75. That's pretty close to twice the amount. It was pretty easy to do a quick search for Canadian food prices and they are considerably higher.
The reason is that your health care costs are passed on to those who manufacture your goods, wholesale your goods, retail your goods and provide your services. They, then, pass their costs down to the consumer. You may not pay that much more in taxes, but, the higher costs you pay for everything would, probably, come out about equal to ours.
10 lbs of potatoes in Canada = $5...I pay between $2.30 and $2.75. That's pretty close to twice the amount. It was pretty easy to do a quick search for Canadian food prices and they are considerably higher.
The reason is that your health care costs are passed on to those who manufacture your goods, wholesale your goods, retail your goods and provide your services. They, then, pass their costs down to the consumer. You may not pay that much more in taxes, but, the higher costs you pay for everything would, probably, come out about equal to ours.
reply posted on 9-12-2009 @ 11:30 AM by stereovoyaged
reply to post by WTFover
There is no way I pay 13k in sales tax man, I only make 25k a year, I pay rent/bill/food/drink like a Canadian I have all the electronic toys and gadgets wear nice clothes and generally enjoy my money, no way 12k is buying that.
There is no way I pay 13k in sales tax man, I only make 25k a year, I pay rent/bill/food/drink like a Canadian I have all the electronic toys and gadgets wear nice clothes and generally enjoy my money, no way 12k is buying that.
reply posted on 9-12-2009 @ 11:32 AM by WTFover
Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by WTFover
If people don't change their habits, healthcare will continue to be a problem.
Bingo! Live healthier, be healthier. And, a big problem is some who run to the doctor or E.R. every time they skin their elbow.
[edit on 9-12-2009 by WTFover]
reply posted on 9-12-2009 @ 11:35 AM by marg6043
reply to post by kenochs
I been in that site, thanks for the link, still whatever is going on in congress, it will have nothing but a big political grab attached and a big pay off for those that write the bills in congress, that means not you me or any of the tax payer in the nation.
Now the health care that Obama has been trying to pass before the end of the year, is going to be dragged as a political tool for mid term elections the news are that this bill or any bill will no be passed before next fall.
Because Republicans will drag it to use it against Democrats for seats in congress.
Yes, is a lot going on behind the scene, so for anybody that thinks that one side or the other is working for the people, let me tell you they are working for themselves and those that pays for their fancy campaign.
[edit on 9-12-2009 by marg6043]
I been in that site, thanks for the link, still whatever is going on in congress, it will have nothing but a big political grab attached and a big pay off for those that write the bills in congress, that means not you me or any of the tax payer in the nation.
Now the health care that Obama has been trying to pass before the end of the year, is going to be dragged as a political tool for mid term elections the news are that this bill or any bill will no be passed before next fall.
Because Republicans will drag it to use it against Democrats for seats in congress.
Yes, is a lot going on behind the scene, so for anybody that thinks that one side or the other is working for the people, let me tell you they are working for themselves and those that pays for their fancy campaign.
[edit on 9-12-2009 by marg6043]
reply posted on 9-12-2009 @ 11:45 AM by whaaa
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
You have the VA, Our state and Federal rep. have Health coverage paid for by my taxes, Christ even the Iraqi citizens have Health care covered by my taxes. Native Americans have a health service paid for by my taxes.
Medicare and Medicaid is paid for by may taxes.
Now explain why my taxes shouldn't pay for Health care for ME!!
Why do you want to force me to pay for the extravagant lifestyle of insurance excs and their stockholders; if I want to be covered?
Doesn't it seem a little hypocritical for you to have the VA but deny your countrymen the same thing?
I wouldn't mind seeing a sales tax on everything to pay for health care for everyone.
You have the VA, Our state and Federal rep. have Health coverage paid for by my taxes, Christ even the Iraqi citizens have Health care covered by my taxes. Native Americans have a health service paid for by my taxes.
Medicare and Medicaid is paid for by may taxes.
Now explain why my taxes shouldn't pay for Health care for ME!!
Why do you want to force me to pay for the extravagant lifestyle of insurance excs and their stockholders; if I want to be covered?
Doesn't it seem a little hypocritical for you to have the VA but deny your countrymen the same thing?
I wouldn't mind seeing a sales tax on everything to pay for health care for everyone.
Conclusive Evidence That "ALL" Vaccines Are Very Harmful Even Causing Death
Posted 16 days ago with 57 member flags
Posted 16 days ago with 57 member flags
5 Mainstream Diseases Respond to this drug ! - Breakthrough!
Posted 19 days ago with 14 member flags
Posted 19 days ago with 14 member flags
Making a Killing: The Untold Story of Psychotropic Drugging - Full Movie
Posted 12 days ago with 10 member flags
Posted 12 days ago with 10 member flags
Newest topics, updated in real-time:
Ok now what is **THIS** OBJECT caught in 27 days of Solar X-Ray images of NOAA????
Space Exploration: 2 minutes ago
Space Exploration: 2 minutes ago
Newest topics getting flags, in real-time:
Picture Shows How All Humans On Earth Would Fit Into One 900 Meter-Wide Ball
Fragile Earth: 13 hours ago, 53 flags
Fragile Earth: 13 hours ago, 53 flags
Toxic legacy of US assault on Fallujah 'worse than Hiroshima'
Breaking Alternative News: 12 hours ago, 23 flags
Breaking Alternative News: 12 hours ago, 23 flags
Pole Shift Survival MotherLoad (14GB) of SURVIVAL information (PDFs)
Survival: 16 hours ago, 23 flags
Survival: 16 hours ago, 23 flags
Fart joke leads to college student being arrested and charged
Social Issues and Civil Unrest: 11 hours ago, 19 flags
Social Issues and Civil Unrest: 11 hours ago, 19 flags
Newest topics getting replies, in real-time:
Picture Shows How All Humans On Earth Would Fit Into One 900 Meter-Wide Ball
Fragile Earth: 13 hours ago, 88 replies
Fragile Earth: 13 hours ago, 88 replies
Fart joke leads to college student being arrested and charged
Social Issues and Civil Unrest: 11 hours ago, 62 replies
Social Issues and Civil Unrest: 11 hours ago, 62 replies
Toxic legacy of US assault on Fallujah 'worse than Hiroshima'
Breaking Alternative News: 12 hours ago, 44 replies
Breaking Alternative News: 12 hours ago, 44 replies
The Above Top Secret Web sites are a
wholly owned social content community of
The Above Network, LLC.
This content community relies on
user-generated content from our member contributors.
The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership
who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides
a collaborative venue for free expression.
ATS Server: www3.theabovenetwork.com
Header data: 0.002 seconds
Page processed in: 0.198 seconds
wholly owned social content community of
The Above Network, LLC.
This content community relies on
user-generated content from our member contributors.
The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership
who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides
a collaborative venue for free expression.
ATS Server: www3.theabovenetwork.com
Header data: 0.002 seconds
Page processed in: 0.198 seconds
